Instruments on "Wild Honey"-album

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think you're probably right that the bass playing on WILD HONEY wasn't Brian's style...which sort of puts us back where we started?

What are the confirmed or likely bass appearances of Brian's from TODAY onward?  (That includes educated guesses based on careful listening)  I was surprised to read that he played on PET SOUNDS...is that true?  The bass credit on "Susie Cincinnati" is apparently for the bass pedals on an organ, and Earle Mankey has told me that the only time he ever saw Brian play a bass was when he played along with the Ronettes album to rehearse for tour, so I'm not aware of any late period in-studio bass playing (probably since it was a lot easier and simpler to use the moog).  Alan Boyd has indicated to me that there was a lot of one-man band recording in the SUNFLOWER era, and even indicated that a particularly cool guitar line on an unreleased track was also Brian's.  But aside from that, what do we know about Brian's bass playing (or Alan's or Bruce's or Carl's, for that matter), post-1964?

We're starting to get into book-length subjects here...

I think that, as Earle's comment suggests, Brian stopped doing much recording on bass when a keyboard instrument came around that gave him the ability to just play basslines on keyboard, the Moog allowed Brian to play whatever basslines he came up with.  I'm not putting Brian's bass playing down, but he was limited in his ability to realize some of his more challenging lines on Fender Bass.

As far as his playing on Pet Sounds, I would be willing to bet that he supplied at least one of the basses on That's Not Me.  The Fender is probably him and the Dano could be too, although it gets a little frisky in the fade that is somewhat uncharacteristic of Brian.

Beyond that, as I mentioned earlier, Brian seems to have provided a lot of bass for Smiley, Vegetables for sure as we have the basic session for that.

But after that, much less.  Maybe a cameo on Wild Honey, Friends seems to be session guys, 20/20 the same, and then come Sunflower and Surf's Up I think that when Ray Pohlman wasn't on hand (as he was for This Whole World, Tears in the Morning, etc) Carl, Al, or Daryl handled the bass.

Suzie Cincinatti's basic session tape doesn't have Brian on it, so he didn't play bass on it.  On the Forever tracking session, who ever is playing bass runs through part of a Bach 2-part invention on the bass, so that suggests Daryl or another session player familiar with Keyboard repertoire.

Surf's Up was probably Daryl, Carl on his songs, and Al on his.

And of course, after this, it was onto Moog bass pretty hardcore.

[c-man]

I bet it's Al playing bass on "Do It Again".  Same trebly pick-like sound that we hear on "Don't Worry Baby" and "She Knows Me Too Well".

And organ-wise, Brian told me that it's Bruce playing the solo on "Wild Honey", and Brian himself playing organ on "Passing By".  Since Bruce was on the "Passing By" session according to Brad Elliott's research, he probably played bass on it, unless there's a second keyboard part mixed in there somewhere. 

[HighOnLife]

Who played bass on 'Wendy'?

[c-man]

Who played bass on 'Wendy'?

Probably Al.

[HighOnLife]

Did Al play the majority of bass on Shut Down, Vol 2?

[c-man]

Did Al play the majority of bass on Shut Down, Vol 2?

I believe so.  "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" was cut with the Wrecking Crew, at Gold Star, and has Ray Pohlman on bass.  But everything else, including "Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson" is almost certainly Al.  Brian may be on one or two things, but if it's got both piano and bass on the basic, that's Bri and Al respectively.

[HighOnLife]

I'm going to take a crack at the bass on SD Vol 2, just by my ear. Tell me if I'm wrong anywhere...

'Fun, Fun, Fun' - Ray
'Don't Worry Baby' - Al
'In The Parking Lot' - Al
'The Warmth of the Sun' - Brian
'This Car of Mine' - Al
'Why Do Fools Fall In Love' - Ray
'Pom-Pom Playgirl' - Al
'Keep An Eye On Summer' - Al
'Shut Down, Pt. 2' - Brian
'Louie Louie' - Brian

[Rocker]

In my brief interactions with Al, he says the Boys pretty much always used their stage equipment to record.  I would imagine, then, that Carl used his Bigsby Equipped Telecaster for much of Wild Honey, and Al Strats.  But of course there was an armada of guitars in the Beach Boys possession, so there's really no way to know with certainty what was used, as sad as that reality is.

I don't hear much Fender-sound in there but since there is not much guitar-solo-work, it's hard to tell. I always thought that they probably used the semi-accoustic guitars that they also used on tour. And I think Carl didn't play a Telecaster until '68, but I might be wrong on that. (*cough* we need that book  )

[c-man]

I'm going to take a crack at the bass on SD Vol 2, just by my ear. Tell me if I'm wrong anywhere...

'Fun, Fun, Fun' - Ray
'Don't Worry Baby' - Al
'In The Parking Lot' - Al
'The Warmth of the Sun' - Brian
'This Car of Mine' - Al
'Why Do Fools Fall In Love' - Ray
'Pom-Pom Playgirl' - Al
'Keep An Eye On Summer' - Al
'Shut Down, Pt. 2' - Brian
'Louie Louie' - Brian

Both Al and Ray are on the session for "Fun Fun Fun".  One of them MAY have played Fender bass and one of them Dano bass.  Hard to tell, 'cause of the whole big chunky rhythm goin' on there.  To my ears, it seems like a 12-string acoustic rhythm guitar can be heard on the downbeats in the intro(especially the second one, I believe), but that could just be overtones from the piano.  What do you guys think?

[nik venet iii]

full of, 'the stinky stuff,'  you say..

hmm

nik venet iii

Consider this possibility:  some years ago, Nik Venet told Adam Marsland that the original bass parts on the "WH" album had to be re-tracked due to some problem with the way they were recorded.  He was thinking it was Ray Pohlman who redid the bass, but it could just as easily have been Ron Brown.  And perhaps the AFM sheet from that overdub session just hasn't materialized (not all the sheets from the "WH" sessions have turned up).  NOW, we all know Nik Venet was (a) full of the stinky stuff, and (b) not intimately involved with the Boys by this time.  However, I believe he was still an A&R guy at Capitol at the time, and therefore could have been at least peripherally involved (or at least aware) of some administration-type aspects of their recording career.  It's worth pondering.  And it would explain Ron Brown playing bass on the album without being on the sheets.


[/quote]

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

and even indicated that a particularly cool guitar line on an unreleased track was also Brian's

Which song was that for?

[adamghost]

Well, technically, we ALL are full of the stinky stuff...it's a basic bodily function, after all...    Seriously, I think the "stinky stuff" comment was paraphrasing Carl's early '70s quote.

To rise to Mr. Venet's defense, most people don't deliberately misrepresent things in my experience, but can get confused as time passes and memories intermingle, so it's always best to take anything anyone tells you with a grain of salt.  When I met N. Venet, I found him to be a warm and funny guy and, as I said, the one bit of information he offered not then commonly known was later verified and accepted.

[c-man]

Adam, when you spoke to Nik, how did you broach the subject of the "Wild Honey" bass?  I'm curious how you got on that topic, since it was a few years past Nik's tenure as their producer.

[adamghost]

The Brian guitar line was, I think, on one of those all-Brian tracks that he cut with Steve Desper around the SUNFLOWER era.  Alan's the one to ask because I just happened to be over at his house when he was playing it back for some reason or other and the guitar line caught my ear, so I asked him about it.  It may have been called "Where Is She."   I know there was a track by that name, just not sure if I'm mixing up two different memories.

I don't remember how it came up with Venet but I probably said in my dorkily obsessive way that I always wondered who played bass on the WILD HONEY album, and he volunteered the information.

[John]

I love threads like this. I was scanning through some old threads and was knocked out that Bruce was mandolin on Disney Girls. As I've said before, I'd love to see complete track-by-track personnel listings, and I think it'd go a long way toward dispelling the "session guys did it all" myth.

[HighOnLife]

What irks me is when I read on some message board about how the Boys were a 'vocal group'. Puhlease. 

[Uncomfortable Seat]

Did Mike ever play any instruments in the studio other than sax?

[matt-zeus]

Did Mike ever play any instruments in the studio other than sax?

He played with his instrument, but not in the studio, unlike Dennis....

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

He was a real sax machine!

[c-man]

Did Mike ever play any instruments in the studio other than sax?

He played (or played with) the bass guitar during the early Capitol sessions.
He also played some electric semi-hollowbody guitar during the "Surf's Up" sessions at Brian's.
There's photo evidence of both.  However, both were almost certainly "between-take" performances that didn't get anywhere near vinyl, or maybe even the multi-track tape.

He did play some tambourine on a "Surf's Up" cut or two according to Desper.  I think "Student Demonstration Time".  It's in Steve's book.

[John]

I imagined he'd played tambourine and maybe other percussion at some point. Does he play acoustic guitar on Big Sur, I wonder?

[c-man]

I imagined he'd played tambourine and maybe other percussion at some point. Does he play acoustic guitar on Big Sur, I wonder?

Not sure, but I doubt it.  Blondie said they cut the "Saga" as one continuous piece, and the acoustic guitar on that sounds like it keeps going into the next two parts, so if it was Mike, he would've played it on the other two parts as well.  But it probably wasn't him, in my opinion.

[Aegir]

I doubt Mike's that bad on guitar, I mean, he's been playing for like 50 years now. I'm surprised he didn't play it live during the late 60s/early 70s when he had little lead vocals.

[John]

Maybe he composes on piano - I've seen a concert review c. 1972 in Kingsley Abbot's collected books which says he plays organ, and he seems to know how to do the Jerry Lee rock'n'roll boogie a little, judging by Knebworth.

Anyone have an idea of what Bruce plays bass on? I'm fairly au fait with Brian and Al's credits, but...

[adamghost]

There's other footage of Mike playing keyboards (the "Our Team" video from M.I.U.) but it's doubtful he played very well...and given every other member of the band could play keys, there'd be no reason for him to do so.  Add to that Mike's general dislike of the recording process, and there's not much reason he'd be around for tracking.