Instruments on "Wild Honey"-album

[Rocker]

Anyone know what kind of guitars Al and Carl played on the "Wild Honey"-album? I think in the SS/WH-twofer-booklet you can see Carl with a Rickenbacher but I don't know if it's from those sessions.  And did they play all guitars or were session musicians used on some parts?


BTW what happened to "Beach Boys' gear" ( http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=258.0 )? Anyone got that Carl-interview from "Guitar player"?

[Wilsonista]

Those shots, I believe are from soundchecks for the Lei'd In Hawaii shows. They might have been in a Beatle mood because in some other shots from that session, Brian and Carl are both seen playing a Hofner Beatle bass.

[c-man]

Those shots, I believe are from soundchecks for the Lei'd In Hawaii shows. They might have been in a Beatle mood because in some other shots from that session, Brian and Carl are both seen playing a Hofner Beatle bass.

The Hofner Beatle bass had become their official onstage bass by early '67 (Bruce, Carl, Al, and Brian at the Hawaii shows, all used it).  Interestingly, Bruce is seen playing a different brand of violin-shaped bass (with an "E" logo on the headstock) in a shot on page 134 of "Look Listen Vibrate SMiLE" (original edition).

As for the question of Beach Boys vs. studio musicians..."Wild Honey" is mostly all Beach Boys, except for some horns and maybe one or two other things, like Theremin.

[Daniel S.]

Did Ron Brown play bass on it?

[c-man]

Did Ron Brown play bass on it?

He very well may have, but none of the documentation indicates that.  If he did, it was probably overdubs.  He DID however play on the 1967 version of "Time To Get Alone", according to the AFM sheets.

[John]

As for the question of Beach Boys vs. studio musicians..."Wild Honey" is mostly all Beach Boys, except for some horns and maybe one or two other things, like Theremin.

Do you have track-by-track credits for it? I know Bruce is bass and organ on the title track, but that's about it.

[voxnut]

Just an aside, the violin bass with the "E" on the headstock was an Eko bass - made in Italy by the same company that made guitars for Vox from about 1964-on, after the Beatles hit world-wide and the U.K. factory couldn't keep up with demand. Electronics and other features were very similar between Ekos and Voxes. I always thought it interesting that the Beach Boys used Vox amps briefly (as seen in the tour shots on the back of the Pet Sounds cover) and wonder how long that lasted. I guess no one escaped the effects of the British invasion, even if the influence was brief.

Dean

[c-man]

As for the question of Beach Boys vs. studio musicians..."Wild Honey" is mostly all Beach Boys, except for some horns and maybe one or two other things, like Theremin.

Do you have track-by-track credits for it? I know Bruce is bass and organ on the title track, but that's about it.

Unfortunately not, or at least not yet.  There are only a handful of AFM sheets available from those sessions, and they list all of the Boys but don't indicate what instrument they played.  Like I said, not much in the way of studio musicians except Paul Tanner on the Theremin for "Wild Honey" and maybe a couple of horn players.  A string octet was employed for "Aren't You Glad", but this overdub was not used in the final mix, as you can tell.  Bruce has said it's Carl playing drums on the outtake of "With A Little Help From My Friends", and I think it might be Brian or Carl playing drums on "How She Boogalooed It", since the AFM sheet just lists Brian, Carl, and Bruce on that one.  I'd definitely say Bruce is playing organ on that one, too, and maybe the rest of the organ on the album.  Sounds like a Farfisa or Vox organ on "Wild Honey" and "How She Boogalooed It", compared to most of the rest of the tunes, which sound like the big Baldwin.  The session tapes don't reveal a whole lot about who played what, at least not what I've heard so far.

[John]

Unfortunately not, or at least not yet.  There are only a handful of AFM sheets available from those sessions, and they list all of the Boys but don't indicate what instrument they played.  Like I said, not much in the way of studio musicians except Paul Tanner on the Theremin for "Wild Honey" and maybe a couple of horn players.  A string octet was employed for "Aren't You Glad", but this overdub was not used in the final mix, as you can tell.  Bruce has said it's Carl playing drums on the outtake of "With A Little Help From My Friends", and I think it might be Brian or Carl playing drums on "How She Boogalooed It", since the AFM sheet just lists Brian, Carl, and Bruce on that one.  I'd definitely say Bruce is playing organ on that one, too, and maybe the rest of the organ on the album.  Sounds like a Farfisa or Vox organ on "Wild Honey" and "How She Boogalooed It", compared to most of the rest of the tunes, which sound like the big Baldwin.  The session tapes don't reveal a whole lot about who played what, at least not what I've heard so far.

Thanks. I'm really much more interested in the personnel listings than the "scandal" stuff. I'd love to see a full "who-plays-and-sings-what" book for the Beach Boys.

[HighOnLife]

Is there any evidence to suggest Brian played bass on the album at all, or did he last play bass on SDSN (or Pet Sounds)?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Is there any evidence to suggest Brian played bass on the album at all, or did he last play bass on SDSN (or Pet Sounds)?

Brian seems to have played much of the bass for Smiley Smile, with bass cameos on SDSN and Pet Sounds.

I think that by comparing the sound of the bass when we know Ron Brown is playing (TTGA, live on tour) to other tracks it can be infered that he played on a lot of WH tracks.

[HighOnLife]

Sounds about right.

I liked the sound Brian got while playing his bass. It was a little different from Al's, which seemed to have a more 'plucky' sound to it. Maybe he used a pick. I know Brian didn't.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Is there any evidence to suggest Brian played bass on the album at all, or did he last play bass on SDSN (or Pet Sounds)?

Brian seems to have played much of the bass for Smiley Smile, with bass cameos on SDSN and Pet Sounds.

I think that by comparing the sound of the bass when we know Ron Brown is playing (TTGA, live on tour) to other tracks it can be infered that he played on a lot of WH tracks.

Is "he" meaning Brian or Ron, in this case?

[c-man]

Huh?

[John]

Didn't Carl play some bass on WH? "I Was Made To Love Her" was mentioned, once, I believe. Or was that Carol Kaye? Carl didn't play bass til later, did he? What was the first song he picked up the bass? "I'm So Young"?

[Rocker]

IIRC "I was made to love her" was Carol Kaye and "I'm so young" was Al. Check out http://www.beachboysarchives.com for the Today-stuff



Thanks to everyone for all the answers. But does anybody know what kind of (electric) guitars Al and Carl played on the album?

[c-man]

Carol Kaye has claimed she's on the Boys version of "I Was Made To Love Her", but there's no supporting evidence that I know of.  She also said Hal was the drummer on that, which is apparently not true.

[John]

Re: I'm So Young, yeah, Al was bass; but Carl was six-string bass. We're both right!

Do we have a bassist for "Here Comes The Night"?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Didn't Carl play some bass on WH? "I Was Made To Love Her" was mentioned, once, I believe. Or was that Carol Kaye? Carl didn't play bass til later, did he? What was the first song he picked up the bass? "I'm So Young"?

No, Carol Kaye played on the original "I Was Made To Love Her". Always remember that.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Re: I'm So Young, yeah, Al was bass; but Carl was six-string bass. We're both right!

Do we have a bassist for "Here Comes The Night"?

The AFM sheet lists six BB, Diane Rovell and engineers Jim Lockert & Bill Halversen.

[HighOnLife]

Didn't Carl play some bass on WH? "I Was Made To Love Her" was mentioned, once, I believe. Or was that Carol Kaye? Carl didn't play bass til later, did he? What was the first song he picked up the bass? "I'm So Young"?

No, Carol Kaye played on the original "I Was Made To Love Her". Always remember that.

Yeah, right! 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I thought that was Jamerson...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

In my brief interactions with Al, he says the Boys pretty much always used their stage equipment to record.  I would imagine, then, that Carl used his Bigsby Equipped Telecaster for much of Wild Honey, and Al Strats.  But of course there was an armada of guitars in the Beach Boys possession, so there's really no way to know with certainty what was used, as sad as that reality is.

According to my ear, Ron Brown played bass on the following cuts, AFM be damned.  (I think as was typical, the Beach Boys just left off the hired help, like Ron Swallow on numerous sessions, etc.)

Aren't You Glad
Darlin'
Let the Wind Blow

I would also add to that list:

Lonely Days


I would not bet the house on it, but I do think that he played on A Thing or Two and Here comes the Night as well.

Ron certainly would be a heck of an important interview.

[John]

According to my ear, Ron Brown played bass on the following cuts, AFM be damned.  (I think as was typical, the Beach Boys just left off the hired help, like Ron Swallow on numerous sessions, etc.)

Reading your posts, I certainly admire your ear for a bass player, but as devil's advocate, you're more likely to leave a roadie playing tambourine [which is mostly what Swallow did, right?] off an AFM sheet than someone playing one of the most important instruments on some pretty sparse tracks...

[c-man]

According to my ear, Ron Brown played bass on the following cuts, AFM be damned.  (I think as was typical, the Beach Boys just left off the hired help, like Ron Swallow on numerous sessions, etc.)

Reading your posts, I certainly admire your ear for a bass player, but as devil's advocate, you're more likely to leave a roadie playing tambourine [which is mostly what Swallow did, right?] off an AFM sheet than someone playing one of the most important instruments on some pretty sparse tracks...

Consider this possibility:  some years ago, Nik Venet told Adam Marsland that the original bass parts on the "WH" album had to be re-tracked due to some problem with the way they were recorded.  He was thinking it was Ray Pohlman who redid the bass, but it could just as easily have been Ron Brown.  And perhaps the AFM sheet from that overdub session just hasn't materialized (not all the sheets from the "WH" sessions have turned up).  NOW, we all know Nik Venet was (a) full of the stinky stuff, and (b) not intimately involved with the Boys by this time.  However, I believe he was still an A&R guy at Capitol at the time, and therefore could have been at least peripherally involved (or at least aware) of some administration-type aspects of their recording career.  It's worth pondering.  And it would explain Ron Brown playing bass on the album without being on the sheets.