Does BWPS still stand?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Seeing Brian do PS and Smile live was way above what I ever thought I'd see live from a BBs related perfomance. Not only PS, but songs from Sunflower, Holland, Wild Honey, etc.

Before this I felt like the BBs history was incomplete. But now, if they decide to all retire, I would be ok with it.

[Reggie Dunbar]

Bless Brian for having the courage to produce BWPS, but many fans will never be satisfied
until they get the "real thing"...myself included. The DVD is superior to the album, and yes,
it still stands. Brian has the convenience of bandmates picking up the falsetto parts he can
no longer hit, now being a senior citizen. The vocalists are adequate but can never be fairly
compared to the BB's under any circumstances. The band is great. Here's hoping that Brian
will dust off the masters, mend a few fences  and release the original product to
a waiting world. It would put all the loose ends to bed and be a beautiful tribute to not only
his brothers, but his fans. Plus, Mike needs the money  .

[sidewinder572]

This morning I listened to the vinyl with headphones on and I got lost in it. I then followed that up with the DVD and it didn't quite hold my attention.

my conclusion: BWPS does still stand. The vinyl is the best version with the DVD a little behind. The CD is null and void for me.

[grillo]

Just listening to BWPS now as I type, and I gotta say, it's doing nothing for me. When it came out I was scared/excited just like anyone else, and was kinda bummed after that first hearing. I was really hoping some interesting questions would be answered, like what does part2 of Sur's Up sound like. Turns out it sounds just like how Carl pasted it together, except with crappy strings that were TOO in tune. Turns out as well that CITFOTM's lead vocal melody sounds nothing like a BW melody, lacking any dynamics or heart, but sounds more like anybody could have written it. Same for Holliday. There just were not any revelations (except for Worms) and it didn't sound very good. The more I hear it, the more I'm convinced BW had very little to do with BWPS; certainly his heart and soul were not even close to being invested in it.

[Ebb and Flow]

Here are my major pluses/caveats if you want to do a strict comparison between the original sessions and BWPS.

+ The arrangement isn't bad, considering there never was a concise "plan" for it.  Still would've ended better with Surf's Up.
+ Brian does a really good job singing (Don't really care about the autotune/help from Foskett)
+ The missing melodies on Plymouth Rock and Blue Hawaii are relevatory.  Love the new lyrics on Blue Hawaii especially.  "I lose a dream..."
+ All of the transitions and fades are well done.
+ For the most part, H&V is perfect.

- Synths instead of a real harpsichord and tack piano?  You can't even drag 'em out for a studio album?
- A lot of the mix sounds odd, very "flat" to me, especially the horns.  Probably has more to do with mixing for multitrack for stereo vs. mixing for a multitrack for mono.  I wished they had "stuck to the formula" this time.
- I don't care if the original BB's weren't classically trained musicians; they had a texture to their voice that the 'Mints just can't compete with.  Unfair, I know.
- Mrs. O'Leary's Cow is a mess.  Love the "Fall Breaks" backing vocals, but the actual track just sounds like noise, and seems very sanitary and normal compared to the original.
- A lot of the new lyrics are pretty rough, and don't really hold a candle to the wordplay going on in the original lyrics.  Don't dig the pirate stuff in On A Holiday, or the "I Believe" stuff in CITFOM.

I think the real issue is whether you prefer the more spur of the moment/organic recordings Brian was doing in the 60's or the methodical, precise digital recording featured on BWPS.  It's difficult to compare the two projects, because whatever Smile was going to be in '66/'67 isn't BWPS.  And the man who created both are two vastly different people, seperated by years of illness, drugs, cigarettes and booze and just plain years.  I think Brian is about as emotionally invested in the Smile material as he was the years following '67, which is to say, not at all.  And I think some of that comes through some descisions made on BWPS.

[Peter Reum]

Well said. Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks wrote and put together Smile, with support from Darian, and had Darian been around in 67, I would say he'd had a hard time dealing with the Brian of that time. Smile came out when it was supposed to, and the 60s recordings are deserving of release as historical documents, is a set of some sort.

[buddhahat]

Just listening to BWPS now as I type, and I gotta say, it's doing nothing for me. When it came out I was scared/excited just like anyone else, and was kinda bummed after that first hearing. I was really hoping some interesting questions would be answered, like what does part2 of Sur's Up sound like. Turns out it sounds just like how Carl pasted it together, except with crappy strings that were TOO in tune. Turns out as well that CITFOTM's lead vocal melody sounds nothing like a BW melody, lacking any dynamics or heart, but sounds more like anybody could have written it. Same for Holliday. There just were not any revelations (except for Worms) and it didn't sound very good. The more I hear it, the more I'm convinced BW had very little to do with BWPS; certainly his heart and soul were not even close to being invested in it.

I think it was going to be unlikely that BW would have the confidence to mess around with the well known structure of Surf's Up unless he actually remembered his original intentions from 40 years back, and if he didn't want to step up in 72 and say 'Hey guys, you're missing this great 2nd section to the song' maybe there was no part 2 in 66. After all, he remembered that the Child lyrics were to be sung over the coda in 72 (presumably a 66 idea) so he wasn't adverse to pitching in ideas from 66 however lethargic and disinterested he had grown.

The new Child melody on BWPS is not my favourite but I think it works well with the lyrics and, who knows, it may be vintage.

The new melody on SFC I'm convinced is vintage and so that and the remembered Worms parts are worth the price of admission alone for me! If it isn't vintage then, hey, Brian can conjure up tunes as great as anything he was writing at his peak imo. In fact, that whole cycle of life section still blows my mind. I was lucky enough to be at the 2nd RFH show and it simply knocked me out - best musical experience of my life - so I guess I'm biased on this one.

It's all a matter of personal taste of course, and also depends on you're relationship to the Smile material, but for me, all things considered, I think Brian, VDP and Darian did an unbelievable job. Does it need to be compared directly with the original sessions? Of course it doesn't sound as spontaneous as the originals and I don't think anyone could touch the BB's original vocals but I treat it as an accompanying musical document to the sessions - Brian's Smile mix and last creative word on the subject, rather than a direct replacement of the 66/67 sessions. When I want to muse and get frustrated over a tragic missed opportunity I listen to the original tunes, when I want to just enjoy the music in a cohesive, flowing form then I listen to BWPS.

[Roger Ryan]

I think it was going to be unlikely that BW would have the confidence to mess around with the well known structure of Surf's Up unless he actually remembered his original intentions from 40 years back, and if he didn't want to step up in 72 and say 'Hey guys, you're missing this great 2nd section to the song' maybe there was no part 2 in 66.

I remember reading (a Darian interview?) that Brian was asked what the backing track to the second segment of "Surf's Up" was supposed to be and he recalled there was a string arrangement. Given that Brian was definitely moving towards more minimal arrangements after "Pet Sounds" and "Good Vibrations" (an arrangement already minimalized a bit from its original conception) and that the original "SMiLE" sessions are full of moments where the arrangements break down to a bare keyboard, I think it's likely that the backing track to the second segment of "Surf's Up" was originally going to be piano, strings and vocals.

[Fun Is In]

I've never once been disappointed in a listen to it.
Sure, it's not perfect, but what is?

The most uplifting part of it for me is the new simple vocal intro before GV.

It still stands TALL for me.

[Glenn Greenberg]

When I want to muse and get frustrated over a tragic missed opportunity I listen to the original tunes, when I want to just enjoy the music in a cohesive, flowing form then I listen to BWPS.

Beautifully put.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Sure, it's not perfect, but what is?

The 1966 Good Vibrations for starters...

[Fun Is In]

caught by the Sherrif!  Is that a theremin siren I hear in the background? 

[sidewinder572]

When I listen to the old material, I don't let the fact that it's not complete bother me. I just enjoy the music.

[Daniel S.]

When I listen to the old material, I don't let the fact that it's not complete bother me. I just enjoy the music.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm just glad that it exists at all.

[Swamp Pirate]

Yes.

I believe the second movement of BWPS is one of the best things he's ever done.  I've heard the original recordings and I was not disappointed one bit at Brian's 2004 presentation.  It is what it is.  We will never know what could have been.

I will say that I feel the live version on the DVD packs more of a punch than the CD did for some reason.  The background vocals had more of a natural blend approaching Brian, Al, Carl, Mike, and Dennis together at their best.  No one will ever duplicate the soaring harmonies that they created.  However, Brian's band comes real close.

[the captain]

I believe the second movement of BWPS is one of the best things he's ever done.  I've heard the original recordings and I was not disappointed one bit at Brian's 2004 presentation.  It is what it is.  We will never know what could have been.

Amusingly enough, that is easily my least favorite segment of the three--particularly the two middle tunes. Go figure. To each his own.

[Swamp Pirate]

Yep.  Exactly.

[Leo K]

Here are my major pluses/caveats if you want to do a strict comparison between the original sessions and BWPS.

+ The arrangement isn't bad, considering there never was a concise "plan" for it.  Still would've ended better with Surf's Up.
+ Brian does a really good job singing (Don't really care about the autotune/help from Foskett)
+ The missing melodies on Plymouth Rock and Blue Hawaii are relevatory.  Love the new lyrics on Blue Hawaii especially.  "I lose a dream..."
+ All of the transitions and fades are well done.
+ For the most part, H&V is perfect.

- Synths instead of a real harpsichord and tack piano?  You can't even drag 'em out for a studio album?
- A lot of the mix sounds odd, very "flat" to me, especially the horns.  Probably has more to do with mixing for multitrack for stereo vs. mixing for a multitrack for mono.  I wished they had "stuck to the formula" this time.
- I don't care if the original BB's weren't classically trained musicians; they had a texture to their voice that the 'Mints just can't compete with.  Unfair, I know.
- Mrs. O'Leary's Cow is a mess.  Love the "Fall Breaks" backing vocals, but the actual track just sounds like noise, and seems very sanitary and normal compared to the original.
- A lot of the new lyrics are pretty rough, and don't really hold a candle to the wordplay going on in the original lyrics.  Don't dig the pirate stuff in On A Holiday, or the "I Believe" stuff in CITFOM.

I think the real issue is whether you prefer the more spur of the moment/organic recordings Brian was doing in the 60's or the methodical, precise digital recording featured on BWPS.  It's difficult to compare the two projects, because whatever Smile was going to be in '66/'67 isn't BWPS.  And the man who created both are two vastly different people, seperated by years of illness, drugs, cigarettes and booze and just plain years.  I think Brian is about as emotionally invested in the Smile material as he was the years following '67, which is to say, not at all.  And I think some of that comes through some descisions made on BWPS.

Well said.

I'm just happy we have both SmiLe and BWPS. 

[the captain]

I'm just happy we have both SmiLe and BWPS. 

All well and good except for one (ahem) minor point: we don't have SMiLE. We have tapes from sessions that were intended for it. That said, I'm glad to have both, too, and find great value in both.

[Dave in KC]

Right Luther. I find it amusing when people say they have SMiLE. Like they're special and have something the rest of us don't. Actually, they're amusing themselves.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Right Luther. I find it amusing when people say they have SMiLE. Like they're special and have something the rest of us don't. Actually, they're amusing themselves.

I don't know, Dave. Maybe years ago before the internet, but SMiLE music isn't hard to find now. Besides, most of it was already released on past Beach Boys' albums.

Yes, sometimes people will say that so-and-so album is "awesome, man" just to jump on a bandwagon or to fit in. But when people are passionate about the 66-67 SMiLE sessions, I take them seriously. I mean, a large number of people do say that the SMiLE music is Brian's peak/best/genius/work of art. IT IS THAT GOOD!

[the captain]

Just to clarify my point, I am not arguing the quality or availability of the SMiLE session material. I only intended to state (emphatically) that it is not a finished SMiLE, nor was there ever such a thing.

[Leo K]

I'm just happy we have both SmiLe and BWPS. 

All well and good except for one (ahem) minor point: we don't have SMiLE. We have tapes from sessions that were intended for it. That said, I'm glad to have both, too, and find great value in both.

You're right of course.   Thanks for the clarification...I should of been more clear

[Leo K]

Right Luther. I find it amusing when people say they have SMiLE. Like they're special and have something the rest of us don't. Actually, they're amusing themselves.

And for another clarification, by using the word "have" I wasn't bragging like I've got something special.   Whats so special about buying the GV boxed set to listen to the tracks allegedly intended for Smile? 

I simply walked to the store...picked up the GV box and took it to the counter with wallet in hand...made the exchange with the clerk...went home and selected the track "Our Prayer" and listened to it while reading the liner notes, which said this song was intended for an album called Smile and etc...after listening I placed the CD set onto my bookshelf and went to bed.

So, in essence, I store the GV box set in my bedroom, or "have" a CD collection holding a set of tracks intended for a lost album apparently called "SmiLe" or "Dumb Angel" at home in my bedroom...at least until I die, and my family sells the box set at a used store for someone else to buy and have and enjoy and speculate and etc...

Hardly special  

[Mahalo]

BWPS still stands, and higher than any album I've heard recently, or not so recently for that matter. Who can deny that there is more musical merit to this album than on any other record of rubbish put out by some hipster jerks trying to be cool. Brian has put pop music on a whole new level of existence with this album, and I don't think it will be topped. We all know that if finished in 67 it would have been better than BWPS, but it wasn't so it doesn't matter. Play this album compared to anything else and this album will triumph with it's insights, soul, swing, songs, and overall HAPPY FEELINGS that aren't lame. Brian addresses almost every emotion on this project with great success. I really feel his pain in this music as he deals head -on with a bunch of BS and tries to overcome the pain of living with sheer will power and strength. It makes total sense to me that he would finish this album singing...'gotta keep those a' loving good, vibrations a happening with her.." I will always testify to how superior this album is to any other, except Pet Sounds, on certain days.