If the Beach Boys never existed...

[NHC]

Yes, Bruce did have a career before he was in the Beach Boys.. of making music that sounded like Beach Boys music.. his pre-BBs career was just ripping off Brian and Mike's surfing and car songs. He probably would've still been in music, but what would it have sounded like?

That's a good question.  My point was that he was already in the business to some degree  by the time the Boys hit the scene full force - at least he had a career to develop.  Also, he was certainly not the only one capitalizing on the current musical crazes. Who can say if his career would have developed more into song writing, arranging, producing, performing, whatever, but he did have a career in the business to work with. He'd be the last to deny that getting asked to replace Brian didn't hurt that at all. He probably would have been the most successful of them in the business world as well, the music profession music aside, probably carrying around a solid college degree or two.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yes, Bruce did have a career before he was in the Beach Boys.. of making music that sounded like Beach Boys music.. his pre-BBs career was just ripping off Brian and Mike's surfing and car songs. He probably would've still been in music, but what would it have sounded like?

Care to explain how Bruce's early career ripped off Brian & Mike's surfin & car songs before they were even recorded ? Do you actually know anything about Bruce aside from the BB and Rip Chords ? Very obviously not.

Try reading my post properly - Bruce's first single was released in June 1959. In 1960 he produced four singles and an album (most of which he also co-wrote) for Ron Holden on Donna (and another single in March 1961).

This is the kind of ignorance I'd expect on the BlueBoard, not here.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Some of his outside production work is also essentially solo work (such as the Survivors), and none of those were hits.  I've read that it was because Murry sabotaged any chance they would get airplay, but to my ears, they are inferior to Brian's work with the Boys, mostly because they lack the harmonies of the Beach Boys. 

Or because he had to save his best songs and ideas for the Beach Boys and his outside projects got all the leftovers. And why the Survivors single didn't do anything is a mystery to me. I could name several early BB hits that are in my opinion not nearly as good as Pamela Jean.

Here's one possible reason:

Capitol 5102 - Pamela Jean, 1/6/64

Capitol 5112 - I Wanna Hold Your Hand, 1/13/64

[Rocker]

Bruce had a career before the Beach Boys even existed. He was also a backup musician on records like "La bamba" and "To know him is to love him". I don't think he would have had a solo-hit, but be a big guy in a company and produce some stuff. "I write the songs" would probably be the same it is today.


EDIT: Well, AGD made it clear before I had read all this and written my answer out.

[NHC]

Yes, Bruce did have a career before he was in the Beach Boys.. of making music that sounded like Beach Boys music.. his pre-BBs career was just ripping off Brian and Mike's surfing and car songs. He probably would've still been in music, but what would it have sounded like?

Care to explain how Bruce's early career ripped off Brian & Mike's surfin & car songs before they were even recorded ? Do you actually know anything about Bruce aside from the BB and Rip Chords ? Very obviously not.

Try reading my post properly - Bruce's first single was released in June 1959. In 1960 he produced four singles and an album (most of which he also co-wrote) for Ron Holden on Donna (and another single in March 1961).

Exactly.  I was careful with dates and product in my post because I didn't have the info in front of me, but Bruce was in the studio  and on records pretty early on, before Brian - not a criticism, just an important fact in the discussion. All those years of piano lessons didn't hinder him too much, either. Of course, as AGD points out, it would be hard to get this past the Blueboard unbloodied.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Bruce played on La Bamba?! I never knew that. WHat did he play on that track?

[Rocker]

Bruce played on La Bamba?! I never knew that. WHat did he play on that track?

AFAIK drums

[Andrew G. Doe]

He didn't. I asked him, and he said he has no idea how that one got started. Didn't play on "To Know Him..." either, but did play on Sandy Nelson's "Teen Beat " (9/59)

[Rocker]

He didn't. I asked him, and he said he has no idea how that one got started. Didn't play on "To Know Him..." either, but did play on Sandy Nelson's "Teen Beat " (9/59)

Ok, I apologize then. But I was quite sure that he said that he played on them on BBBritain one time.  Anyway, I guee AGD will know about this better than me....

[Andrew G. Doe]

The musicians on Valens' recordings were the cream of the session cats - proto-Wrecking Crew.

[Jon Stebbins]

Speaking of Valens...there is a very direct connection between him and the BB's...actually between Valens and Carl and David. We talk about it in the upcoming Lost Beach Boy book. Oh yeah and Bruce wasn't the only future Beach Boy with studio experience in '59. Dave recorded an original song with John Maus/Walker and Richie Podolor at a major studio that same year.

I'll stand by my earlier thumbnails.
Brian - a decent chance at music success, once he's in with a hit he's in for good.
Mike - salesman, and a good one.
Dennis - fundamental cool guy, either a big success, or a bum, impregnates many pretty girls either way.
Carl- good and steady at whatever he chooses.
Al - decent high school teacher, definitely not an intellectual, music on the side, solid family guy.
Bruce - already an L.A. music business insider, already wealthy, BB's were just a nice bonus for him.
David - guitar player for life.

[Jonas]

Yes, Bruce did have a career before he was in the Beach Boys.. of making music that sounded like Beach Boys music.. his pre-BBs career was just ripping off Brian and Mike's surfing and car songs. He probably would've still been in music, but what would it have sounded like?

Care to explain how Bruce's early career ripped off Brian & Mike's surfin & car songs before they were even recorded ? Do you actually know anything about Bruce aside from the BB and Rip Chords ? Very obviously not.

Try reading my post properly - Bruce's first single was released in June 1959. In 1960 he produced four singles and an album (most of which he also co-wrote) for Ron Holden on Donna (and another single in March 1961).

This is the kind of ignorance I'd expect on the BlueBoard, not here.

Hows the view from up on that high horse?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Purty good... purty good. 

[Lorenschwartz]

this is a maudlin thread.

[SG7]

Hmmm, wow this is a big question. This is like the equivalent of what if palm trees never grew in California. Goodness what a weird world it would have been.

Brian - A lot of you I see put music would still be his major thing. I kind of agree with everyone but I don't think it would have been the center of his life. If nothing happened, he probably would have gotten discouraged. I could see him like a psychologist. Funny because my old psychologist was in a jazz band on the side but thats another story...

Bruce - Session guy. Probably singing backup for people and making a nice living doing that.

Carl - This kid could have done anything and he would've been fine. Teacher or one of the guys on the help hotline.

Dennis - I think if he got his act together he could've become an executive of a big company. Once he was into something, he really was. I think his downfall would've been women though.

Al - Dentist. End of story.

Mike - Owning gas companies.  

[shelter]

Dennis - I think if he got his act together he could've become an executive of a big company.

Really? Dennis Wilson would be pretty much the last person on earth that I could imagine as a businessman...

[Aegir]

Do you actually know anything about Bruce aside from the BB and Rip Chords ?

Yes I do, in fact. His solo albums. The Hot Doggers. The Vettes. The Sidewalk Surfers. Bob Sled and the Toboggans. The Kustom Kings. Bruce and Terry.

Yes, I know that before the Beach Boys became popular Bruce didn't copy their style, but can you really tell me that songs like "Fun Last Summer", "Here We Go (The Surfer Boys Are Going Skiing)" aren't heavily Beach Boys influenced? That a number of his songs don't include the phrase "fuel-injected engine" or something similar? That "456 Stingray" isn't a COMPLETE RIPOFF OF 409?!

I'll admit I'm a pretty ignorant person, but not in this instance.

[shelter]

The fact that Bruce was a recording artist before the BB doesn't mean it's impossible that he was heavily influenced by them. Jan & Dean predated the BB as well, but it's obvious that they tried hard to sound like the BB later on.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If I may quote you exactly:

"Yes, Bruce did have a career before he was in the Beach Boys.. of making music that sounded like Beach Boys music.. his pre-BBs career was just ripping off Brian and Mike's surfing and car songs."

Like I asked, how could he base his career 1959-61 on ripping off songs that hadn't been written yet by a band that hadn't been formed ?  You made an very unwise generalisation. The Ron Holden stuff might not be very good, but it doesn't sound anything like the BB, or surf/car songs, as you've claimed. Nor, for that matter, does the early Rip Chords material, or later Bruce & Terry songs.

Words are are powerful weapons, but not if used carelessly.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The fact that Bruce was a recording artist before the BB doesn't mean it's impossible that he was heavily influenced by them. Jan & Dean predated the BB as well, but it's obvious that they tried hard to sound like the BB later on.

Later on. 

[shelter]

Like I asked, how could he base his career 1959-61 on ripping off songs that hadn't been written yet by a band that hadn't been formed ? 

Bruce probably had hidden microphones in the Wilson house... So in fact it wasn't Spector who was spying on Brian, but Bruce! 

[shelter]

Later on. 

Yes, but what I meant was that Bruce (in theory) could've had a carreer of making music that sounded like the Beach Boys. Not his entire carreer, but still 2 1/2 years of it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Of course... how could I have missed something so obvious. ? 

[shelter]

J&D predated the BB but they did copy them... So the fact that Bruce's first recordings predated those of the BB doesn't prove that he never copied the Beach Boys' music... Right?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Regardless of when it was done, IMHO Bruce's recordings were crap. Then again, it's probably my bias against pre-64 rock showing.

Carry on.