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Author Topic: Is there a definitive meaning to "Wonderful"?  (Read 6408 times)
catman
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« on: November 30, 2006, 10:04:56 PM »

    Hi, I was just wanting to ask you all the meaning of "wonderful". Such a great song, but awhile back I heard  a interpretation that was kind of "weird", so I was wondering if yall could comment.thanks
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2006, 04:09:39 AM »

I'd like to use this opportunity and post a part of an essay that "MacAndrew" once wrote. It's a stunning writing about the connections between SMiLE and Hawaii. This part is about a song, that the last queen of Hawaii (mentioned in "On A Holiday")once wrote.



Quote
...And so Queen Lili'uokalani will "sing" to us. Do we know what songs she will sing?

The rather surprising answer is: very probably. Indeed, the Queen was an uncommonly accomplished author and songwriter - she played the piano, organ, ukulele and guitar. Her book "Hawaiii's Story by Hawaiii's Queen" tells the history of her country. She composed and published the first English translation of the Kumulipo, about which she says:

"... The translation of which [the Kumulipo] pleasantly employed me while imprisoned by the present rulers of Hawaii ... being nothing less than the genealogy in remote times of the late King Kalakaua, who had it printed in the original Hawaiian language, -- and myself ... This is the very chant which was sung by Puou, the High Priest of our ancient worship, to Captain Cook ... and as it is the only record of its kind in existence it seemed to me worthy of preservation in convenient form."

Lili'uokalani's best-known musical compositions include the haunting anthem, "Aloha 'Oe" (Farewell To You), and "Pauahi 'O Kalani" (Pauahi, The Royal One), dedicated to her foster sister Pauahi. They are surely songs she would sing... and they are both roundelays.

Pauahi was of most exalted lineage, being the great-granddaughter of legendary King Kamehameha I. She got her name, meaning "finished by fire" or "destroyed by fire", after an aunt who was rescued, in childhood, from a fire. We may notice that this is a nod, in this case probably coincidental, to SMiLE's elemental theme of destructive fire and rescue from it. In the song, Pauahi is both princess and goddess, glimpsed in the seclusion of a sacred forest:

PAUAHI 'O KALANI:
Noho ana ka wahine i ke anu o Mana
Mahalo i ka nani nohea o ka nahele

(Hui:)
E ola 'o Kalani e Pauahi lani nui
A kau i ka pua 'ane'ane
E ola 'o Kalani e Pauahi lani nui
E ola loa no a kau i ka wekiu

Ua 'ike i na paia 'a'ala ho'i o Puna
Ua lei na maile o Pana'ewa ho'i
(Hui)

Ho'i ana no na'e ke aloha i na kini
I ke one hanau i ka home i ke kaona
(Hui)

In English:

PAUAHI, THE ROYAL ONE:
Our lady is there in the coolness of Mana
Admiring the beauty and the glories of the forest

Chorus:
Live, Oh Highness, Pauahi, great royal one
'Til time shall [be] no more
Live, Oh Highness, Pauahi, great royal one
Live long, in truth, supreme in excellence

She knows the fragrances of Puna's bowers
She has worn the maile from Pana'ewa
(Chorus)

Her loving thoughts return to love her kin
To her home, her birthplace, she is returning
(Chorus)

Please confront this song with "Wonderful". Notice that each of the female protagonists "knows how to gather the forest". Like the young woman of "Wonderful," who will "return in love with her liberty," Pauahi "is returning" to "her home, her birthplace." Moreover, Pauahi's "loving thoughts return to love her kin", as it can be assumed for the loving mother and father in "Wonderful".

As for "Mana", it is sometimes a branch, sometimes a fern, and - most importantly - sometimes the divine, miraculous energy which permeates the Universe and can be called upon by people of power. Here, it is most likely all three. In the last and main sense, it is a fair translation of the adjective-turned-noun "Wonderful."

So, the two songs seem to speak practically of the same sort of young goddess/archetype: a "non-believer" may bump into her, but he's blind to the "coolness of Mana"... the Wonderful.
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Big Bri
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2006, 04:40:10 AM »

This most obviously shows the "education" that Van Dyke Parks has when it comes to obscure Hawaiian literature.
So much so that he calls Hawaii the "Sandwich Islands" which they were once called.
VDP is a very educated and intelligent man.It's probably not a coincidence that he wrote "Wonderful" with the above story in mind?

Big Bri
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JRauch
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2006, 05:14:24 AM »

Quote
It's probably not a coincidence that he wrote "Wonderful" with the above story in mind?
I highly doubt that. Van Dyke definately knows his stuff, as this list shows:

http://vandykeparks.com/miscfiles/smilerefs.html
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2006, 06:28:24 AM »

I always thought it was about a girl losing her virginity, but I like this meaning a little better.  Van Dyke is one clever guy. 
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the captain
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 01:19:05 PM »

With most of Van Dyke's songs, I think it's a mistake getting too caught up in literal, all-encompassing meanings. That isn't to say that it isn't fun to work to decipher general meanings, or phrases, or references. Remember, he's writing a song with all of the tricks and necessities he sees in that, so wordplay, rhyme scheme, imagery, sounds of words spoken or sung aloud, etc. all mean probably as much to him as "what does this phrase mean? Does this make sense?"

To try and get a line-by-line, definitive "meaning" is something best left to Mike Love.

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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2006, 07:19:34 AM »

I have always taken to be about the loss of innocence followed by some type of redemption - that certainlly fits in with theme of the suite.

The last two verses always struck me as being antithical to generation gap that was occuring at the time the lyrics were written:

"All fall down and lost in the mystery
Lost it all to a non-believer
And all that's left is a girl
Who's loved by her mother and father

She'll return in love with the mystery
Never known as a non-believer
She'll sigh and thank God for won-won-won-wonderful"

Not exactly a "Never trust anybody over thirty" sentiment!
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the captain
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2006, 07:57:25 AM »

The last two verses always struck me as being antithical to generation gap that was occuring at the time the lyrics were written...Not exactly a "Never trust anybody over thirty" sentiment!

But really, isn't that exactly what VDP has said they were doing with SMiLE? The Beach Boys were pretty anachronistic anyway, and VDP has said they were trying to say "Things aren't so terrible here in America. There is good." Those lyrics do hint at that kind of sentiment, that it isn't so easy to dismiss all of the old as "enemy."
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2006, 08:41:20 AM »

It's too bad that, in the last 40 years, you couldn't just ask Van Dyke Parks what the song was about - and get a straight, clear answer.
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the captain
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2006, 09:20:59 AM »

I disagree.
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2006, 09:58:34 AM »

Dito. That would be like Da Vinci explaining why "Mona Lisa" smiles on the painting.
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2006, 10:35:01 AM »

Dito. That would be like Da Vinci explaining why "Mona Lisa" smiles on the painting.

IMO that's apples and oranges. You are comparing a painting with a song, strokes of a brush with words. That sounds romantic, but that's not reality.

Yes, SMiLE is a work of art, both musically and lyrically. But, come on, VDP sat down, and who knows under what influence, wrote a couple of lines to Brian's music. He wrote somes words on paper for a purpose, for a meaning. I believe he absolutely knows what that meaning is, as psychedelicate, or childlike, or Americana, or...whatever it might be.

But of course he isn't going to share that meaning with us. He has to continue to play the game, the "I know something that you don't know" game. Keep the SMiLE myth going. Besides, who are we, just the little old record-buying public. We're not an "artist" like him. And that was the point I was trying to make. And I don't care if you disagree with it or not. I find it frustrating and condescending that VDP -  and Brian - can't just sit down with us, their fans, maybe through a journalist, and discuss SMiLE.  Now you're supposed to tell me that "they don't owe us anything". Yeah, right. Who am I to ask a simple question about a song...
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2006, 11:57:16 AM »

You're probably right about Van Dyke knowing more than he's told us, but I don't think the same applies to Brian.  I think that all the answers we might want from Brian about Smile might be long gone, on account of passage of time, drugs and mental illness.  So I don't think Brian is necessarily withholding things about Smile; he probably just doesn't remember any more than he has already told.  But you're right, I think Van Dyke could sit down and explain what he meant with certain lines or ideas if he wanted to.  But I respect his choice to let those who listen decide for themselves.  It brings out interesting discussions and explanations that people might not have thought of, like MacAndrew gave in his essay.  But telling us what every last word means would spoil a lot of the fun of Smile, IMO.   
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the captain
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2006, 02:09:55 PM »

I have a feeling VDP is sitting back and laughing at how much people try to make narrative, line-for-line meaning out of poetic lyrics. i.e. something out of nothing.
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2006, 03:26:11 PM »

I have a feeling VDP is sitting back and laughing at how much people try to make narrative, line-for-line meaning out of poetic lyrics. i.e. something out of nothing.

Yeah, sadly, I'll bet he is...
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2006, 06:42:49 PM »

Its what you want it to be. You could use the piece as air because the meaning of it goes through you and not meant to be understood.


Things are best left a mystery  Cool
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2006, 01:20:26 AM »

Yes, SMiLE is a work of art, both musically and lyrically. But, come on, VDP sat down, and who knows under what influence, wrote a couple of lines to Brian's music. He wrote somes words on paper for a purpose, for a meaning. I believe he absolutely knows what that meaning is, as psychedelicate, or childlike, or Americana, or...whatever it might be.

But of course he isn't going to share that meaning with us. He has to continue to play the game, the "I know something that you don't know" game. Keep the SMiLE myth going. Besides, who are we, just the little old record-buying public. We're not an "artist" like him. And that was the point I was trying to make. And I don't care if you disagree with it or not. I find it frustrating and condescending that VDP -  and Brian - can't just sit down with us, their fans, maybe through a journalist, and discuss SMiLE.  Now you're supposed to tell me that "they don't owe us anything". Yeah, right. Who am I to ask a simple question about a song...

I think you're missing the point. Is VDP "playing a game"? Was he playing this same game in 66 when Mike Love pressured him into explaining his lyrics? I doubt it. I think he's a lyricist who enjoys creating abstract meanings and associations that are open to interpretation. If it's in this open interpretation that he sees the quality of his work why should he devalue it by explaining his lyrics word for word? I think he gets frustrated by requests to reveal his lyrics' meaning just as Lennon or Dylan did. I don't believe any of these artists get satisfaction from being one up on their lowly fans as you imply. l just think they understand the value of their art and wish to preserve it.

And why should Brian and VDP sit down and explain Smile point by point? Do you want Smile to be a perfectly logical and transparent piece of music? Surely as others here have noted much of Smile's beauty is that it's esoteric and unobtainable - that it's open to interpretation. That's what makes it so personal for the fans. VDP explaining his lyrics in the way that you demand would bleed half the life out of Smile imo.
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2006, 09:33:04 AM »

I enjoyed your post, buddahat. Good discussion. Thank you...

I don't think I'm missing the point, however. In starting this thread, catman raised the question "Is there a definitive meaning to Wonderful"? My post(s) were simply addressing catman's question.  "Wonderful" is a 40 year old song. And this board is comprised of many Beach Boys/BW experts. With that combination, you would think there would be numerous replies like "check out the interview BW did about it in Rolling Stone", or "read the interview VDP did in the xyz book", or "watch the SMiLE documentary where BW and VDP discuss SMiLE at length". But there can't be any replies like that because none of those interviews/discussions at length exist. I was merely pointing out that I think it is not only strange, but also a disservice to the many diehard SMiLE fans who kept the myth alive for decades. I do understand why you (and several others) don't agree with me. But I am not one of those fans who believes that Brian and VDP don't owe us anything. And I don't even view it as "owing" anything. I don't think it is asking too much for one or both of them to sit down for one hour and "explain" what they know about the creation of SMiLE. And it's not like I'm asking about the meaning of "I Want To Pick You Up". It's SMiLE, arguably the greatest work of the 20th century. At the very least, the interviews could serve a historical purpose.

You mentioned in your post that you think VDP "gets frustrated by requests to reveal his lyrics' meaning just as Lennon or Dylan did" Well, I know a simple way to eliminate those requests and frustrations. GO ON RECORD AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS! While I agree with you that VDP "enjoys creating abstract meanings and associations that are open to interpretations", I'm not sure I agree with you that by explaining his lyrics he would devalue his work. Come on, VDP, educate me. I can figure out "Don't Worry Baby", but you lose me with "Wonderful". I'm starting to sound like Mike Love Wink

As I mentioned in my above post, I do have a problem with artists (be it Lennon, Dylan, or whoever) who feel they have to be secretive about their work - if I feel they are being secretive just for the sake of being secretive. And I believe that is the case with VDP. Hey, I'm not asking for a word for word breakdown or a two hour history lesson of each song. But a simple "when I wrote the words to Wonderful, this is what I was trying to get across..." Again I say, is that too much to ask.

Lastly, buddahat, you opine that "VDP explaining his lyrics... would bleed half the life out of SMiLE". If you really mean that, I respect your opinion. But I'd like to know, as catman would like to know, as countless other SMiLE diehards would like to know. The same applies for Brian. I'd like to hear his thoughts on the musical end. I do get your point that it might take some of the esoteric beauty and mystery away from SMiLE. And it is fun to debate the "meaning" of SMiLE on message boards such as this. But is it possible that if we heard more from Brian and VDP, it might actually INCREASE our appreciation for SMiLE. When you look at the overwhelming greatness and historical importance of SMiLE - for 40 years now - it is amazing how little we have heard from its creators. Every day we lose great ones from the world of rock/pop. Brian and VDP are still with us. There's still time.
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2006, 09:54:45 AM »


 VDP "enjoys creating abstract meanings and associations that are open to interpretations", I'm not sure I agree with you that by explaining his lyrics he would devalue his work.

I really think that the point of the above is that he can't sit down and explain them line for line because they don't mean anything line for line. There IS NO definitive meaning. I believe that is what VDP was telling Mike Love 40 years ago and has been telling everyone ever since, but nobody wants to listen. His images mean something cumulatively, but there isn't a "verbatim translation." There never was. I think you're searching for the Holy Grail, or the Loch Ness Monster. VDP is a songwriter who enjoys writing poetic lyrics. To pretend he's somehow created the ultimate puzzle that nobody has been able to crack for decades might be giving him a little too much credit. They're songs. Their lyrics are full of general themes and imagery, but also wordplay. They don't have to make literal sense, and they don't (at least not always). It isn't that he'd devalue his work by explaining it; it's that he'd be explaining the unexplainable.
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2006, 12:00:09 PM »

Even if he could (which I highly doubt) I would hate it if he came out and told us in great detail what each line means.  It would detract from the experience.

I may not understand the meanings of all the lyrics but I love the work and it has a meaning for me.  I suspect thats what he was shooting for.

I know that "Everyone's in Love with You" doesn't sound as good as did before I knew who it was about - Sometimes the art and beauty are in the mystry.
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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2006, 05:30:23 PM »

Like Dylan, who, let's face it, was the number one influence on Van Dyke during the SMile lyric writing period, many of the lyric lines are words that sound good together and amuse the author, but do not necessarily make any literal "sense."  They do convey a mood and a feeling.  Rimbaud's poetry (big influence on Dylan) was meant to convey a disorder of the senses and images, but not to convey a linear story or have just one interpretation.  I believe Van Dyke was absolutely telling Mike the truth when he said he didn't know what the crow cries line meant - it was an image he liked that fit in with the agricultural theme of the song, and it scanned just right for the melody as dictated by Brian.  And there just wasn't any more to the creation of the lyric than that.
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2006, 01:36:05 AM »

Rimbaud's poetry (big influence on Dylan) was meant to convey a disorder of the senses and images, but not to convey a linear story or have just one interpretation.

Thanks for this Bicycle Rider. I suspect too that VDP is being honest when he says his lyrics don't mean anything, throw them away. I think he juxtaposes images and plays with the sound of words to create an atmosphere that is more poetic and abstract and less conventional linear narrative. I think this explains a lot of the frustration of lyricists such as Lennon when asked to explain lyrics. Didn't Lennon mischeviously pen I am The Walrus with deliberately nonsensical lyrics to see what the lyric analysts would make of it?

Imo if you approach Smile searching for a linear story or an all encompassing explanation then you are bound to be frustrated. I just don't think Smile was ever that logical. There are too many different themes going on - Americana, The elements, humour album, health trip, cycle of life etc. I think part of the enjoyment for fans comes from constructing our own narratives, in arranging the songs. I know that you, Sherrif John Stone, get pleasure from that as I do. Would that be so possible if VDP and Brian had sat down and said "Here is the story and sequence of songs we intended in 66?"

I don't believe that VDP is deliberately vague about meanings behind Smile, with the intention of perpetuating the Smile myth. I think, ironically, in creating lyrics that were open to interpretation from the outset, in Brian's penchant for fragments of music that are easily interchangeable and in the incompletion of the project, the two artists unwittingly created a self perpetuating myth that is to a large part an interactive experience for the fans. The minute one finds a total theory behind Smile, then the myth will die but fortunately that will never happen!
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2006, 01:48:56 AM »

I believe Van Dyke was absolutely telling Mike the truth when he said he didn't know what the crow cries line meant - it was an image he liked that fit in with the agricultural theme of the song, and it scanned just right for the melody as dictated by Brian.  And there just wasn't any more to the creation of the lyric than that.

Really good observation.  That's one thing that's always stuck with me on Mike's criticism of Smile.  Who care's if a line doesn't make sense?  If it sounds good, fits with the context of the song, what more do you want?  If someone had the balls to tell him this back then, everybody would've been better off.

As for "Wonderful", I've always associated it with the "American Gothic Trip" portion of Smile, and I think Van Dyke does too given it's placement in BWPS.  I'm not saying it can't be based on Hawaiian poetry, but it's always struck me as something more out of Hawthorne (The Author, not California) than Hawaii.
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2006, 08:07:51 AM »

While it is interesting to know where a lyricist drew his inspiration from, a song is really what you make of it.  If someone wants to find meaning or interpretation in a song, it's really not up to someone else to say that it's wrong or useless to do so.   Music means different things to different people.   For me, I enjoy looking at different ways to interpret BB lyrics and musical signatures.  I really don't care whether they're "right" or not; I'm not seeking validation from the songwriters.  It's just something I like to do, and it adds to my enjoyment of the listening experience.

Personally, I hear different things in the 1967 version of "Wonderful" versus the 2004 version.  To me, the 1967 version sounds like a girl who has been "ruined" and there's little hope for her.  The 2004 version, however, sounds like a girl who lost her way but she will turn out alright.
In early 2004, I was doing my student teaching assignment, working with 7th graders.  There was one girl in my honors class who carried herself in a very regal way, especially for someone of that age.  In fact, I have a photo of this girl when she happened to be wearing a toy tiara (part of some skits the class had done as an assignment).  When I first heard "Wonderful" as performed in the first Smile concerts, I immediately thought of this girl but I wasn't sure why.  Fast-forward to two years later, when I ran into another student from that class.  She told me what was up with other kids, and mentioned that this girl had gotten pregnant in the summer before 9th grade, but miscarried soon after.  So it really fulfilled the feeling I got from "Wonderful"...that even though this girl had made a mistake and lost her way, somehow I knew she would carry on with her head held high. 
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