Overrated artists/albums

[lance]

The Beatles may be the best band ever, the way their talents came together was a once in a lifetime thing, most likely. Their perfect career arc, consistent good taste,  engaging personalities and forty years of extremely smart publicizing hasn't hurt any, either.

Then again, maybe they are just one of dozens of very, very good bands.

 It might be true that Beach Boys fans on a Beach Boys website overrate the Beach Boys, but I certainly would not say the Beach Boys are overrated in general, either by critics or by normal humans. At worst they are one of the great sixties-early seventies bands if not "equal" to the Beatles on the "good-o-meter" at least the equal to the Kinks, Stones, Who, etc.

 The Beach Boys are underrated as far as I am concerned.

I kind of disagree that the Beach Boys only made one record as good as any of those others. I think that Wild Honey, Friends are equal to the White Album(though strikingly different, obviously), and 20/20 is better than Let It Be. Sunflower is as good as Abbey Road as far as I am concerned and I think the Reilly-era albums are also great.
I think that Today is better than Help! and Summer Days is not too far below Rubber Soul. Smiley might not be equal to SGT. Pepper or MMT but to be honest, I'd rather hear that nowadays than either of those. I guess I'm Beatled out.

As far as their early stuff, I think they are about equal, but I think that Brian Wilson was a better producer than George Martin(in the early sixties). "Little Child", "Hold Me Tight" and many others are just as much filler as "South Bay Surfers"(If not" Denny's Drums", IMO.

[the captain]

 It might be true that Beach Boys fans on a Beach Boys website overrate the Beach Boys, but I certainly would not say the Beach Boys are overrated in general

...

I kind of disagree that the Beach Boys only made one record as good as any of those others. I think that Wild Honey, Friends are equal to the White Album(though strikingly different, obviously), and 20/20 is better than Let It Be. Sunflower is as good as Abbey Road as far as I am concerned and I think the Reilly-era albums are also great.
I think that Today is better than Help! and Summer Days is not too far below Rubber Soul. Smiley might not be equal to SGT. Pepper or MMT ...

On that first point, that is all I was saying. I certainly didn't mean in general.

On the second, you're right that we disagree. I love Friends--LOVE it--but still think it's got about three or four mediocre or worse songs, which is a shame when it's so short already. Wild Honey, I like about half of--and the sound on it is terrible. It's in desperate need of a good stereo remixing and remastering, as the few songs from of it that have been given that treatment sound great. But even if that happens, it can't make up for the (admittedly enjoyable sometimes) tossed-off mediocrity of some of it. I think the best of Wild Honey and Friends as a single disc makes a great album, a Beatles-quality album. (As for White Album, well I hate double albums anyway and would gladly cut it to make one absolutely brilliant album. In fact, I have. It's over there ---> on my shelf.) 20/20, I think, is mostly bad. Cabinessence, TTGA and IWTS are brilliant, but I dislike plenty and don't care much about a lot of the rest. So it's nowhere near Let It Be for me, which I don't even rate that highly. Sunflower sounds great, but its songs are at least half crap in my opinion; conversely, Abbey Road is almost all amazing in both aspects. Today! is better than Help, or equal. I'll give you that. SD(&SN) doesn't compare favorably to Rubber Soul or Revolver to me. Not even close.

Of course, it's all opinion.

[lance]

It is just opinion, and I don't fault you for it, it's probably the majority opinion anyway. I can go along with Summer Days being inferior to Rubber Soul, though I wonder if it's just that the Beatles were just better at ordering their records for maximum impact? Because there are some songs on Rubber Soul that are actually not that hot(What Goes On, Run For Your Life, I don't even like Drive My Car), but in the context of the whole album they make it great, whereas Summer Days has it's mediocrities pretty much front and center with SLC, APUSA and the cover.

 I totally disagree about Wild Honey and Friends--I don't really think there any bad songs on either. Bear in mind I just got Wild Honey via post earlier this week, so there's still a sparkle on it for me. A stereo mix would be cool, but I like the sound of it, actually.

HOwever, I will admit that after Pet Sounds(or rather Smile) Brian lost a bit of his ambition to make records that would knock people's socks off while the Beatles kept that ambition. They were still going for something really big, while Brian Wilson/Beach Boys were doing things on a smaller, more personal level--a level and fashion that,  incidentally, feels far more modern to me. But it doesn't make the Beatles better, I just feel that the Beach Boys got simpler and more personal, sillier, while the Beatles were still going for something grandiose and bigger than themselves(and achieved it.) Later, they scaled themselves back, too.

I think that songs like Maxwell's Silver Hammer...I mean, it's cute, but I just can't listen to it, the melody is lame, it's all gimmicks and forced humor. Eh. Let It Be...I don't know. I just can't get into it, I like half the songs, the others always seemed kind of lifeless to me. Give me She Loves You any day over Get Back.

I guess I just think neither is that much better, though if I wanted to look objectively--(though why would I?) I would put the Beatles higher for a couple of reasons: more well-rounded as a band, greater number of classic jump-out-at-you, hooky singles;cooler image and, in the late sixties, way more commercial than the BB's.

[the captain]

I think that songs like Maxwell's Silver Hammer...I mean, it's cute, but I just can't listen to it, the melody is lame, it's all gimmicks and forced humor. Eh. Let It Be...I don't know. I just can't get into it, I like half the songs, the others always seemed kind of lifeless to me. Give me She Loves You any day over Get Back.

Agree on MSH. And on SLY over GB. By far, actually.

[Alex]

The Beach Boys, to my ears, had one--ONE--album that was as good from start to finish as the Beatles best albums: Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road. And that's Pet Sounds.

I'd add Sunflower, Holland, SMiLE, Friends, Smiley Smile, 20/20, and Love You to the list of BB albums as good as the Beatles from start to finish.

[the captain]

The only one of those I think might have ended up close, if it existed, were Smile. To my ears, that's Beach Boys fandom saying that.

[lance]

Or Beatles'.

[the captain]

Admittedly. But one is a more substantial group. What it comes down to is that there is no objective measure for the quality of pop music. Simple as that. Which is why we all waste our time here debating the unwinnable debate.

[brianc]

**whereas Summer Days has it's mediocrities pretty much front and center with SLC, APUSA and the cover.**

Yikes. Most of what you said there was spot-on, but this was a bit off, in my opinion. That boat-slip cover is genius, and was imitated by Playboy photographers in 1966, as well as the Carpenters on the back of one of their albums.

[lance]

LOL
I meant the cover song not the album cover!    

 "Then I Kissed Her." I know  a lot of people consider it a classic, but I would bet  a lot of people don't care for it. I don't hate it(nor do I hate the other two songs) but I do consider them the worst three tracks on the record.

But still great.

 Lest someone think I'm dissing them.
I'm not.

[brianc]

Hahahahahaha!

Sorry about that.

I was scratching my head, thinking, well, that cover isn't as iconic as "Rubber Soul," but damn if it doesn't capture the mid-'60s decadence vibe pretty darn well. Mods out on a yacht in the Newport Beach Bay.

But now I know what you meant.

I'm okay with their "TSKM" version, but it pales in comparison to the Spector original.

[mikeyj]

The Beach Boys, to my ears, had one--ONE--album that was as good from start to finish as the Beatles best albums: Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road. And that's Pet Sounds. The other albums all have a lot of fine moments, but often as much filler. I'd take Magical Mystery Tour (which I think of as probably the Beatles worst album) over almost any Beach Boys album.

I agree that the Beatles are better as they were more consistent with less filler etc... I think one reason perhaps though is that the Beach Boys had MORE albums during those early years. Between 63-66 the Beatles had 7 studio albums, and the Beach Boys had 10 studio albums, plus a live album.

But as for great Beatles albums I would only say "Rubber Soul", "Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper". And for the Beach Boys I would probably say "Pet Sounds" and "Today!". Okay, there is Bull Session, but who cares! The rest of that album is amazing and makes up for that one track. Besides, I'd rather not define it as an album of songs "good from start to finish". I mean what if an album has 10 good tracks but nothing more than just "good" but yet then there is an album with 8 all time great tracks and 2 absolute pieces of crap. I would say the latter is better.

[brianc]

I like "Today," "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" as much as "Rubber Soul," "Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper."

[lance]

Me too.

[donald]

The Beatles were a more practiced, polished, experienced band by the time they started releasing albums at that pace.

Not to mention a bit older and well traveled.

The BeachBoys were still a little "green" at first and there was a lot of filler.  But the good stuff was REALLY good.

[carl r]

The Beatles have been "overrated" in that they have been overexposed well before Paul's recent marital problems

I like to think of "Imagine" vs "Surf's Up" - one being openly idealistic and approachable, the other cryptic and introverted. One is advertising the prospect of change and life beyond materialism, the other seems to be be talking about people tied to giant forces beyond their control. Somehow Surf's Up seems to fit 2008 better - but in the 1970s perhaps it was a different story...

[Ana-Lu]

\
I was scratching my head, thinking, well, that cover isn't as iconic as "Rubber Soul," but damn if it doesn't capture the mid-'60s decadence vibe pretty darn well. Mods out on a yacht in the Newport Beach Bay.

The 1965 Beach Boys are mod???

[Aegir]

This is all my opinion, but...

Great Beach Boys albums:
Pet Sounds
Wild Honey
Friends
20/20
Sunflower
Surf's Up
Holland
LA
Still Cruisin'
Total: 9

Great Beatles albums:
Meet the Beatles
Beatles '65
Rubber Soul
Yesterday... and Today
Revolver
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Magical Mystery Tour
Abbey Road
Hey Jude
Total: 9

[brianc]

**The 1965 Beach Boys are mod???**

No, not out and out. The influences are starting to show up in their hair and some of their clothes. But I meant that you'd see L.A. mods in TV shows, where there would be a group of mod gals and guys in Rudi Gernreich clothes on a yacht in the ocean or something. TV shows like "Groovy" or "Something Else." I just meant in general, a mid-'60s feel of mod, minimalism and oncoming psychedelia, meets the placcid tones of SoCal. The Beach Boys weren't quite there, but still getting closer. Anyway, they weren't on a yacht...

[Ana-Lu]

Gotcha.  A friend of mine was in (a very white) high school between 1962 and 1966, coinciding with both the Beach Boys rise in popularity and the British invasion.  He said that while a few of the more daring kids adopted a Beatles/Stones look, that most kids went for the Beach Boys look circa 1964.

[brianc]

When I did "Dumb Angel Gazette #4" and more recently "Pop Surf Culture," I found out just how incredible 1963 was in Los Angeles for young people. Surf was like the Twist, and both were as vital to the notion of '60s grooviness as anything that happened during psychedelia.

There may have been a little lull for SoCal after the British Invasion, but L.A. fully bounced back in 1966, and in many respects was even better than it had been, culturally, in 1963. It's pretty close, though.

[Ana-Lu]

I've always liked the LA '66 Sunset Strip look, as epitomized by the Standells and Byrds:  Moptop hair, striped collarless shirt (or turtleneck), tight white jeans, big ass black leather belt, and Beatle boots.

[brianc]

Totally agree.

[warnakey]

Bright eyes are over rated.

[kookadams]

Everyone on here that's saying the Beach Boys had a lotta filler on their albums and that the Beatles were more consistent etc. are joking right? Every album the Beach Boys made all the way through Love You was at least decent. Everything leading up to Pet Sounds was incredible and even after when they got more experimental they were still making masterpieces even if their records weren't commercial hits in the US. Americans in the late 60s and early 70s just bought into all the hippie garbage while the Europeans were eating it up. If the Beatles hadn't have gotten all the press and publicity and George Martin producing their music they wouldn't have been nearly as big as they were; ya gotta give Brian Wilson credit for doing it all, Lennon and McCartney would have been nothing without George Martin. It just boggles my mind how this is supposed to be a site dedicated to the Beach Boys and there's a lotta fans on here undermining their music...