Documentary!

[Angela Jones]

I think the best way to start to dismantle and diagnose the issues with this doc is *not* to pick one particular story/fact/piece of information that was excluded and cry foul. This film has more fundamental, ground-level problems than that.

That's kind of like saying if I order a California cheeseburger with fries, and it comes out missing the cheese, lettuce, and tomato, and with potato chips instead of fries, there are more fundamental problems than those. No, the missing elements are fundamental problems too! And there is every right to cry foul if they're missing.

I agree. And this particular cheeseburger is even missing some of the burger too. And by that I mean important material that doesn't feature in the sound track or the film.

[HeyJude]

Yeah, I don't know how deep to go on a food analogy. I wouldn't go with burger I guess, because this documentary has far more than like 5 or 10 ingredients.

This is more like a 50-foot long buffet where like the back 25 feet are shut down, and like 27% of the first 25 feet have all been eaten, but the whole buffet display is built on top of jello instead of a real floor, and the manager of the restaurant is telling me how great the food is.  

I can complain that I'm missing my bacon bits and potato salad, or I can take a step back and point out that the whole thing is on shaky ground and the manager doesn't understand how buffets work.

And all that Nick Kent stuff is very, very interesting. But I'm not sure how one would expect any documentary, unless it was like 10 hours long, to properly contextualize an old Brian quote basically saying "I'm surrounded by a**holes" (the "stomped my brains out" quote). That's like pretty deep-dive stuff that requires a lot of context and qualifications. I wouldn't rush to have them add Brian saying "Van Dyke Parks is the biggest butthole in the world" either. Same with the story of Carl and Mike cornering Brian about "Redwood." These are all important, interesting stories (well, not the VDP quote I guess!). Perfect for a long book, or a long documentary.

But when I watch this new doc, I'm not thinking about how they didn't mention Redwood. I'm thinking about how Frank Marshall just fundamentally doesn't "get it", about how this documentary was fatally wounded the moment they decided to cut it off in essentially 1967, rush through about seven more years in the final  20 minutes, and then ignore the rest of the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, etc. I think about how they couldn't muster a title better than "The Beach Boys."

Now I really want some lunch though....

[HeyJude]

Someone over on the Hoffman board snarkily but kind of aptly summed up the doc:

Buckingham: follow your muse

Movie: we're lost, we're lost, we kept making albums, but... OK, we're making money again! The end.

[Galaxy Liz]

It's a Disney movie made to plump up their list of titles and sell the channel.  It's fluff.  It's a publicity release to sell the image and the history according to certain band members.  Having the idea that it was ever going to be a proper documentary on the history and the music was naive I suppose but I lived in hope.
The Telegraph article is yet another spin on capitalising on the sad history and takes it's lead and flavour from Nick Kent whose original article was reputedly largely fiction and who in turn was trying to write something juicy to sell.  It is unnecessarily unkind.
Both miss the tragedy of Brian's life and his phoenix like rise from the flames and fail to acknowledge the complexity and beauty of the music through concentrating on chart success.  It misses the decline and fall of the band post Brian leaving and turning it into it's own tribute band but then that wouldn't fit the narative of the publicity department so huge sections of the history is missing.
I suspect you're all going to fall on me like a ton of bricks but that's just my humble opinion.

[Zenobi]

Not me, Galaxy Liz. On the contrary, thanks for highlighting these OTHER problems. In fact, the Telegraph article misses completely "the point" as abysmally as this 2024 documentary does.
Every narrative about the Beach Boys HAS to talk of phoenix Brian rising from his own ashes. Brian's current predicament is obviously very sad, but does not impair IN ANY WAY the greatness of his "redemption" arc.
That so many people DON'T GET IT HOWSOEVER boggles the mind, and I'd have the temptation to actually swear, in a bad way, about that.
Though I fear that no amount of swearing would suffice...

[Emdeeh]

That Telegraph story could benefit from fact-checking. 1969?

[Lonely Summer]

I have to ask this.

An American Family was 2 parts. How is it that John Stamos can get a 2 part miniseries about the BB made yet Frank Marshall and Irving Azoff can only get a less than 2 hour doc made?

Exactly!! I haven't seen the documentary, 50/50 chance that I pony up the money to subscribe to Disney+ for a month to watch it (I realize the fee is equal to a few cups of coffee, but that's pretty much how little I care about seeing this). What is sad is that with 'Get Back' I was subscribing to Disney+ within minutes of that documentary being available. The Beach Boys are without a doubt my favorite band ever and yet I can't seem to be the least-bit enthused about watching this thing. I'm sure I'll get around to it at some point.

The trailer just seemed meh - no magic, the same "insert current one-hit-wonder band personality here" interviews to tell us how inspirational and incredible Brian Wilson is (and, as I've said before, a music personality who released the song 'Water Slide' has absolutely no business being in a Beach Boys documentary...I mean come on guys). The reviews are so lukewarm about this thing. Even people who seem to like this thing sound so tepid about it.

And I keep seeing people say "this documentary was not made for us" - but this is exactly the problem. Maybe if they made a movie for the fans, non-fans would be drawn into the storytelling/magic/music itself. I think of Ken Burn's baseball series, that was clearly made for baseball fans, but yet you can read stories/reviews of non-fans being drawn into the subject because of the amazing filmmaking/story. That's like a 24 hour long documentary from 1994 that is STILL talked about and watched to this day. Imagine if Ken Burns had watered down the story of baseball into an hour and half movie - it would have been forgotten about in a year. Which is likely what will happen with this Beach Boys documentary.

This should have been at least two parts, and not stopping at 1980. On the bright side, it'll introduce people to The Beach Boys. The downside is that so much opportunity was wasted yet again in The Beach Boys realm. At least we have an amazing book and some incredible boxsets from the last few years - which is honestly a heck of a lot more than I would expect from this band. So while the documentary may be disappointing, we're still one of the luckiest/blessed fanbases in music!

The book is nice, but again, it stops at 1980. Jerry Schilling did manage to get in some comments at the end about Carl's solo career, but that's all.

[Angela Jones]

Not me, Galaxy Liz. On the contrary, thanks for highlighting these OTHER problems. In fact, the Telegraph article misses completely "the point" as abysmally as this 2024 documentary does.
Every narrative about the Beach Boys HAS to talk of phoenix Brian rising from his own ashes. Brian's current predicament is obviously very sad, but does not impair IN ANY WAY the greatness of his "redemption" arc.
That so many people DON'T GET IT HOWSOEVER boggles the mind, and I'd have the temptation to actually swear, in a bad way, about that.
Though I fear that no amount of swearing would suffice...

The good thing about the Telegraph article was this bit: ''While it wouldn’t be quite fair to accuse Beach Boys of entirely overlooking definitive and sometimes grisly details, it is right to accuse the film of seeking to place a positive spin on even the ugliest moments. Worse still, it seeks to imply that talent of the group’s members was, to some degree at least, evenly spread. But it really wasn’t.' I hope the documentary tried to emphasise the good stuff in order to do tribute to Brian but as they had so much about the publishing rights lawsuit (not the others, mind) and even Manson, it;s hard to believe that. Limiting the story to 1980 (to go along with the book but then the same question applies for that) suggests they didn't want to show how unproductive the post 1980 Beach Boys were, except for touring greatest hits. The most interesting things they had done post 1980 were as solo artists until That's Why God Made the Radio and the C50 tour. Both of those things involved Brian and the C50 ended badly. Perhaps not the narrative some in the band wanted.  But for me the real triumph wasn't Endless Summer and a return to greatest hits. It was Brian and his band playing Pet Sounds, completing and premiering SMiLE (and more). But I don't suppose that's the narrative some in the band wanted either.

[Galaxy Liz]

Not me, Galaxy Liz. On the contrary, thanks for highlighting these OTHER problems. In fact, the Telegraph article misses completely "the point" as abysmally as this 2024 documentary does.
Every narrative about the Beach Boys HAS to talk of phoenix Brian rising from his own ashes. Brian's current predicament is obviously very sad, but does not impair IN ANY WAY the greatness of his "redemption" arc.
That so many people DON'T GET IT HOWSOEVER boggles the mind, and I'd have the temptation to actually swear, in a bad way, about that.
Though I fear that no amount of swearing would suffice...

The good thing about the Telegraph article was this bit: ''While it wouldn’t be quite fair to accuse Beach Boys of entirely overlooking definitive and sometimes grisly details, it is right to accuse the film of seeking to place a positive spin on even the ugliest moments. Worse still, it seeks to imply that talent of the group’s members was, to some degree at least, evenly spread. But it really wasn’t.' I hope the documentary tried to emphasise the good stuff in order to do tribute to Brian but as they had so much about the publishing rights lawsuit (not the others, mind) and even Manson, it;s hard to believe that. Limiting the story to 1980 (to go along with the book but then the same question applies for that) suggests they didn't want to show how unproductive the post 1980 Beach Boys were, except for touring greatest hits. The most interesting things they had done post 1980 were as solo artists until That's Why God Made the Radio and the C50 tour. Both of those things involved Brian and the C50 ended badly. Perhaps not the narrative some in the band wanted.  But for me the real triumph wasn't Endless Summer and a return to greatest hits. It was Brian and his band playing Pet Sounds, completing and premiering SMiLE (and more). But I don't suppose that's the narrative some in the band wanted either.

I would be in favour of just doing a documentary on Brian - which could tell the story including that of his brothers and the group since they were all part of his life.  This would allow the telling of the whole story.
The current owners of the back catalogue wouldn't back it since they are only trying to promote the legend which sells so permissions to use copyright material might be tricky and it's difficult to know if the public would buy it but I think it's important for the actual history to be preserved instead of the fairy story.

[Galaxy Liz]

In fact, the Telegraph article misses completely "the point" as abysmally as this 2024 documentary does.
... Brian's current predicament is obviously very sad, but does not impair IN ANY WAY the greatness of his "redemption" arc.
That so many people DON'T GET IT HOWSOEVER boggles the mind, and I'd have the temptation to actually swear, in a bad way, about that.
Though I fear that no amount of swearing would suffice...

Thanks, I agree with everything you said but particularly love these bits!

[rab2591]

Out of curiosity I went to Rotten Tomatoes to see what the critics thought of this movie (each of these lines taken from different reviews):

It’s a strange lasagne of wonderful, mad musical moments and inexplicable talking heads (Janelle Monáe - why?) all deliciously poisoned by the seeping resentfulness of Wilson’s cousin Mike Love, who says it is unfair Wilson got all of the “genius label”.

“The Beach Boys” is a breezy CliffsNotes version of the band’s ups and downs

...is a very good introduction for viewers who don't know much about the Beach Boys. The movie's ending scene indicates a better story could've been told.

Though not a definitive account of “America’s Band,” the Disney+ doc dishes up great insight into their creative process.

It’s entirely palatable, watchable material. But somehow it feels as though the band deserved better.

...watchable but routine overview of the classic California band

"routine" "deserved better" "not definitive" "cliff-notes version" "a better story could've been told"

And most all of these were from positive reviews! I guess I find it hard to believe that people are "trying" to find fault with this documentary when clearly there are a melange of issues spread across the spectrum - enough so that even positive reviewers can't help but mention the problems.

Just disappointing that this appears to be such a missed opportunity. I don't know if the band deserves better, or if the fans deserve better, but I sure do know that the MUSIC deserves better.

[Zenobi]

So true, Rab.
I wasted some minutes reading the thread about the documentary in the Hoffman board, ironically named "Music Corner". Ironically, because the guys there seem to have taken solemn vows of talking of anything EXCEPT the music.
Apart from the usual uncanny crazies who behave like Brian has run down several dogs of theirs...

[Angela Jones]

I agree with both Rab's and Zenobi's comments, in particular that the music deserves better.

Who made the decision to limit this story to 1980? What you might call 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'.

[HeyJude]

The book is nice, but again, it stops at 1980. Jerry Schilling did manage to get in some comments at the end about Carl's solo career, but that's all.

Howie Edelson spoke in one of the podcast interviews (I believe it was the "Surf's Up" podcast) about the book and why it stops in 1980. The publisher wanted the book to stop in 1974, and he and the band and Jerry Schilling all disagreed and wanted it to go farther. They ended up settling on 1980 as a compromise, and Howie explains in this interview why that is and how that came about, and it makes total sense. And, I wouldn't say the book is particularly comparable to a documentary film. The book obviously has a chronological flow and covers some biographical details, but it's not meant to be a full-on biography of the band. It's more a very elaborate "In Their Own Words" style book, meant to serve that function and also be a nice coffee table illustrated book.

This Disney documentary was done by a completely different team. And hey, if at some point Frank Marshall or Zimny come out and say "We wanted it to be two parts and cover up to 2024, but X stopped us from doing that", then I'm open to hearing what exactly went down. I think the years that *are* covered in the doc are not done adequately, so I think there were a number of problems baked into that project. But it's certainly possible that external forces outside of the directors also threw a wrench in the gears at various points.

[HeyJude]

Also concerning the doc, to be clear, it does not stop in 1980. In fact, the ending is so messy that nobody can seem to agree on precisely when it ends. I guess I'd say it ends in 1974, though it mostly ends in about 1967 and then rushes through the late 60s and the early 70s, mainly to briefly point out that the Beach Boys were seen as dorks in the late 60s, to do a rush job featurette on Dennis, and to squeeze in technically mentioning Blondie and Ricky.

But just because they tacked on a 1980 concert clip over the credits, it doesn't mean this thing even technically covers to 1980. There is *zero* reference to anything between 1974 and 1980.

I'm guessing they just picked a concert performance clip to end things, and it happened to be a triumphant, all-American, July 4th gig. And hey, I love that DC 1980 gig, so I won't complain too much about *that* particular choice (though again, as I've mentioned, they used a lousy-looking-and-sounding copy for some reason). I suppose it's possible they were trying to tie the doc into the book (remember again that the book and doc were done by two completely different teams/companies; obviously both with BRI/Iconic involvement) and where the book ends.

[El Molé]

I think it's fair to say that the story of the Beach Boys is contested, to some extent, so a comprehensive narrative isn't necessarily a straightforward thing. But this doc has completely missed so much of the story however, with huge portions of the timeline not discussed, ignoring major events, covering others with narrow/warped perspectives etc. T

here are things that I enjoyed, such as the interviews with Marilyn, Al, David, Mike and Don Randi, but it seems a huge shame to have had the opportunity to make this and the availability of masses of content to have then used it so poorly in this doc. There were some interesting things from Don Was, Ryan Tedder and Lindsey Buckingham, but some of the Josh Kun segments didn't resonate with me quite so well.

Personally, I'm quite happy to hear Mike tell his story from his perspective - but not without other perspectives giving balance. I think Mike tells us something about things that happened but a lot more about himself and his attitude etc. I'm left thinking that he's a man who has achieved so much and should be rightfully proud of his life and career but doesn't seem content to stand on that record and focuses instead on things that others are credited with etc. Brian is a master collaborator who great songs with many other writers and lyricists and Mike should be proud to be one of the more prominent ones - yet he doesn't seem content with that at all. Brian's talent need not diminish Mike's, but he seems to see it as a zero-sum thing. The main point is that if Mike is giving his perspective, it should be balanced by other perspectives and that doesn't really happen here.

Al continues to shine as a true friend of Brian's and a man of extraordinary grace and dignity - I'm reminded of one of Brian's slightly odder interviews from the past (amidst the rancour of the Paley era) where he said “Al’s cool, man. He’s not too good a singer, but he’s a pretty nice man.” A pretty odd perspective on Al's singing ability but I think the appreciation for Al as a true friend is clear. I think it's a genuine friendship that has just about survived all of the difficulties and came full circle in Brian's later years where he needed Al's voice and support - I think that's a wonderful part of the story that's left untold in this doc.

The doc misses so much after Smile. Leaving out the deaths of Dennis and Carl is really an astonishing failure - a band of brothers, cousins and friends, founded on a harmony made special by genetics and familial bonds, but no reference to the passing of two of those brothers? What about Brian's resilience throughout some much trauma? Despite everything he continued on, endured beyond so many family members and continued to make special music through decades.

What about C50? That was a triumphant reunion no matter how it ended - a Brian's back tour and album that demonstrated just how extraordinary his role in the band was, even in his later years. When Brian is there, the magic happens.

What about the creative explosion running through the band after Smile? Where is the story of a band pressing on in the increasing absence of their 'genius' leader yet still making some extraordinary music with outstanding vocal sounds etc? To me, the incredible music made during the period from Wild Honey through Holland and that fact it was so often ignored, and the emerging pressure to run the oldies act is a massive part of the Beach Boys story. If you want people to know about the band, tell that story too because it's the bit that is still lesser known.

What about the tensions between the band members, the fights and the arguments, the disputes, the fallings out etc? What about the setting aside of so much of that to still play on stage together night after night? What of Carl the mediator? What of Dennis the tormented creator, bursting with music against the odds?

I don't think it would be possible to cover it all in one doc of this length, so choices have to be made - but I disagree fundamentally with the validity of the choices evident in this doc. Much has been said already, but if you can't tell the story of the band post-67, don't try to squeeze it into 15 minutes or so and fail so badly with it. If you want to talk about some of the darker moment, do it in context and talk about the impact - covering Manson in the way it was covered here just seemed odd. If you want to finish the story with a no.1 hit in Kokomo, fine - but otherwise don't end the doc with a pretty unrepresentative song that is pretty atypical as a piece in both sound and construct. If you can't tell the story, perhaps stick to the music, or if you can't cover the music maybe tell the story of the people instead - I don't really know what the intent with this was, but it fails on both counts.

I was surprised how much it leant on content from Endless Harmony (still the best doc yet, in my opinion) - but I think some segments were slightly extended, so I appreciated that a little I suppose. Why it used so much interview content from Mike/Al from Endless Harmony when they also conducted contemporary interviews is a mystery, but perhaps says something about the quality of those modern interviews.

All of that said, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing overall - there will be people who watch and learn something about the band and Brian beyond Surfin' USA and that's not a bad thing. If the music hooks people they'll explore and find out more and will find their own way to the story, I think. I wish this had done a better job and I regret that it didn't, but somewhere in it there is still perhaps some good.

[Zenobi]

The 1993 Good Vibrations box practically redefined the history of music in the last decades for me.
As I said before, after 1967 the Beach Boys disappeared in Italy. There was just one magazine covering pop/rock music, and it covered only mainstream rock, progressive rock and a sprinkling of fusion. The only "info" I had about the Boys was they "had disbanded due to their leader Brian Wilson falling into madness".
So from 1967 to 1993 I believed that what once was my favourite band did not even exist any more.
When I bought the GV box I did not know what I expect... and I was astonished, and delighted. I knew for the first time about SMiLE, and listened to those gorgeous sessions.
And then I marveled at all those other hidden gems... the 1967-to-1977 albums.
I returned, immediately, to being a rabid Beach Boys fan, only 1000%. And, yes, I realized that what I had thought I knew was a lie. An enormous lie.
And, of course, I could not foretell that Brian Wilson would return and sprinkle his magic again upon us.
I did not know that Dennis had penned his own Pet Sounds (Pacific Ocean Blue) and his SMiLE (Bambu).

Oh, what did I want to say?

I mean, there is so much about the Beach Boys, besides "the hits" and Pet Sounds. Insisting, like this 2024 doc, that after 1966 there was practically nothing of importance (maybe excepting Kokomo!) is, imho, unforgivable. A great disservice to the Beach Boys, to the fans and the world of music at large.

Yes, it's possible that 2 or 3 people, after seeing this doc, decide to try listening to, say, "Sunflower". I doubt that. Hope to be wrong.

[rab2591]

To those who understand copyright law: would it be foolish to attempt to create your own documentary with footage/pictures/music culled from various sources? There would be no monetization, no distribution other than YouTube.

I realize it's easy for people to throw copyright claims at you on YouTube, but if under "fair use" could such a documentary be determined as "educational" and thus not really be a target for copyright infringement? I realize it is probably a mine-field of problems. But just curious what smarter minds think of this idea.

I bring it up, because we live in a golden age of information. We have every documentary, interview, song, piece of footage at our disposal. We have access to pictures and documents regarding the music. I can totally see someone putting together a well-produced Beach Boys series on YouTube that documents every aspect of their career, culture, lives, etc. Basically, I can totally see some fan in his bedroom making a far better documentary than anything we've gotten.

[guitarfool2002]

The 1993 Good Vibrations box practically redefined the history of music in the last decades for me.
As I said before, after 1967 the Beach Boys disappeared in Italy. There was just one magazine covering pop/rock music, and it covered only mainstream rock, progressive rock and a sprinkling of fusion. The only "info" I had about the Boys was they "had disbanded due to their leader Brian Wilson falling into madness".
So from 1967 to 1993 I believed that what once was my favourite band did not even exist any more.
When I bought the GV box I did not know what I expect... and I was astonished, and delighted. I knew for the first time about SMiLE, and listened to those gorgeous sessions.
And then I marveled at all those other hidden gems... the 1967-to-1977 albums.
I returned, immediately, to being a rabid Beach Boys fan, only 1000%. And, yes, I realized that what I had thought I knew was a lie. An enormous lie.
And, of course, I could not foretell that Brian Wilson would return and sprinkle his magic again upon us.
I did not know that Dennis had penned his own Pet Sounds (Pacific Ocean Blue) and his SMiLE (Bambu).

Oh, what did I want to say?

I mean, there is so much about the Beach Boys, besides "the hits" and Pet Sounds. Insisting, like this 2024 doc, that after 1966 there was practically nothing of importance (maybe excepting Kokomo!) is, imho, unforgivable. A great disservice to the Beach Boys, to the fans and the world of music at large.

Yes, it's possible that 2 or 3 people, after seeing this doc, decide to try listening to, say, "Sunflower". I doubt that. Hope to be wrong.

Well said, and yes that '93 GV box set was a landmark release, and important for a lot of fans and people who would become even more devoted fans in the years after. It was a great time...and yet, even then, you had a yin and a yang situation where the band's music was finally being appreciated as music worthy of praise and attention beyond the hits, while simultaneously existing as a shell of a band whose current album sitting next to the two-fer reissues and the GV box set was Summer In Paradise. And the live shows featured dancing cheerleaders and hula girls existing in front of surfboard and palm tree backgrounds...while some of the best pop music of the 20th century was being performed.

I'll never get over those contradictions, which also happened in my personal life when I would play someone the Smile sessions, or Smiley/Wild Honey, or other similar material, then see them later after they saw or heard the current Beach Boys and were confused if not upset in some cases that the current albums and music from the same band was not on the same track or even the same universe as how the material was presented via the reissues, the box set, the Don Was doc, or even the Malcolm Leo documentary which was still available on VHS if you looked for it. Not saying it was all that way, but I'm hard-pressed to think of another band whose image and persona had such a Jekyll and Hyde existence especially after the public could hear Smile material and the 67-71 albums for themselves and judge that with what was current around 1991-1995.

But one comment you made stands out, when you said I realized that what I thought I knew was a lie, an enormous lie.

One of the bigger tragedies of the saga, particularly in the last 20 years or so but going beyond that, is how many lies were told, repeated, and believed about this band, and Brian Wilson in particular. People who a lot of us fans thought were trusted, honorable people and voices continued to spread lies and rumors that were simply not true. We could list them, but some of us already have been doing that for years. One glaring example out of many is how Brian  stayed in bed after 1967 and was unable to contribute to the music...and THAT truth was finally heard by the general public by way of the actual session tapes and various audio that blew all of that nonsense from before out of the water. People could hear it for themselves via legitimate releases of the sessions, rather than trusting the words being written online by those who knew better yet continued to spread false information.

Why someone would get enjoyment or pleasure out of trying to f*** over Brian Wilson is beyond me. I know that I and many of us fans can eventually fade into the sunset of life without having the issue of trying to f*** over Brian Wilson on our conscience and karma. I wonder if it even registers with some of those people who have tried to f*** over Brian Wilson in their words and actions, and decided to run with the lies and rumors along with other actions versus simply appreciating the man for his music and enjoying the gift which that music has been to us fans.

If anything can come from this documentary, hopefully some new listeners will be able follow up on their own after watching it to get to the truth, sift out the bullshit, and get deeper into the music as a result. It's life affirming and simply beautiful music which people of all backgrounds can connect with, and hopefully those new fans will be able to find the right sources and avoid the liars and the lies to better understand where all of this goodness came from.

[Lonely Summer]

Not me, Galaxy Liz. On the contrary, thanks for highlighting these OTHER problems. In fact, the Telegraph article misses completely "the point" as abysmally as this 2024 documentary does.
Every narrative about the Beach Boys HAS to talk of phoenix Brian rising from his own ashes. Brian's current predicament is obviously very sad, but does not impair IN ANY WAY the greatness of his "redemption" arc.
That so many people DON'T GET IT HOWSOEVER boggles the mind, and I'd have the temptation to actually swear, in a bad way, about that.
Though I fear that no amount of swearing would suffice...

The good thing about the Telegraph article was this bit: ''While it wouldn’t be quite fair to accuse Beach Boys of entirely overlooking definitive and sometimes grisly details, it is right to accuse the film of seeking to place a positive spin on even the ugliest moments. Worse still, it seeks to imply that talent of the group’s members was, to some degree at least, evenly spread. But it really wasn’t.' I hope the documentary tried to emphasise the good stuff in order to do tribute to Brian but as they had so much about the publishing rights lawsuit (not the others, mind) and even Manson, it;s hard to believe that. Limiting the story to 1980 (to go along with the book but then the same question applies for that) suggests they didn't want to show how unproductive the post 1980 Beach Boys were, except for touring greatest hits. The most interesting things they had done post 1980 were as solo artists until That's Why God Made the Radio and the C50 tour. Both of those things involved Brian and the C50 ended badly. Perhaps not the narrative some in the band wanted.  But for me the real triumph wasn't Endless Summer and a return to greatest hits. It was Brian and his band playing Pet Sounds, completing and premiering SMiLE (and more). But I don't suppose that's the narrative some in the band wanted either.

I would be in favour of just doing a documentary on Brian - which could tell the story including that of his brothers and the group since they were all part of his life.  This would allow the telling of the whole story.

I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, Beautiful Dreamer, Long Promised Road, the A&E special....how many documentaries do we need about Brian? Is there an area where those are lacking?

[Zenobi]

My guess about why there are so many people trying to f... over Brian is simply: envy. Brian is rightly recognized as a genius, and many mediocre, talentless hacks just can't accept that. He has to be "downsized", at all costs.

[Lonely Summer]

Also concerning the doc, to be clear, it does not stop in 1980. In fact, the ending is so messy that nobody can seem to agree on precisely when it ends. I guess I'd say it ends in 1974, though it mostly ends in about 1967 and then rushes through the late 60s and the early 70s, mainly to briefly point out that the Beach Boys were seen as dorks in the late 60s, to do a rush job featurette on Dennis, and to squeeze in technically mentioning Blondie and Ricky.

But just because they tacked on a 1980 concert clip over the credits, it doesn't mean this thing even technically covers to 1980. There is *zero* reference to anything between 1974 and 1980.

I'm guessing they just picked a concert performance clip to end things, and it happened to be a triumphant, all-American, July 4th gig. And hey, I love that DC 1980 gig, so I won't complain too much about *that* particular choice (though again, as I've mentioned, they used a lousy-looking-and-sounding copy for some reason). I suppose it's possible they were trying to tie the doc into the book (remember again that the book and doc were done by two completely different teams/companies; obviously both with BRI/Iconic involvement) and where the book ends.

I wasn't trying to imply the doc and the book compilers/writers/directors/producers were in cahoots with each other; and it's been made clear by other comments here that everything post-Smile is rushed through in the doc.
It's like if The Beatles Anthology had ended with their last concert, in Candlestick Park. Or with a tag at the end that said "with the end of their touring days, the Fabs were able to explore the studio further, and bless the world with masterworks like Dr. Pepper and Shabby Road".
Anyway, I've given up hope that someday someone will do a true career spanning documentary. We're lucky people are interested in the Beach Boys AT ALL in 2024. I look at what's on the charts today, and I don't even know what most of it us, other than Taylor Swift. The 60's are fading into history; it's gotten very difficult to even find that music on the radio; luckily, we have a couple local stations that still play the Beach Boys, the Supremes, Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Monkees, Dave Clark 5, Four Tops, Four Seasons, Fats Domino...okay, I'm rambling.

[Lonely Summer]

My guess about why there are so many people trying to f... over Brian is simply: envy. Brian is rightly recognized as a genius, and many mediocre, talentless hacks just can't accept that. He has to be "downsized", at all costs.

People are trying to f--- over Brian? Today? 2024?

[HeyJude]

Doing a Brian-focused documentary is all well and good (although, yeah, I’d say we’ve had like a half dozen of so, if not more, of various flavors at this point).

But I don’t see a need to side-step doing a *group* documentary and *instead* doing a Brian doc and just filter the rest of the band through that. There are huge sections of the story where Brian is not the main focus. He’s always there, and the most democratic group doc is still also about Brian too.

Brian’s 1998-2020s triumphant renaissance has been covered in multiple documentaries and concert films.

The problem with the new Disney doc is not that they didn’t make Brian’s PS or Smile tour the huge defining end moment or anything. Sure, ideally even a “group” documentary would cover the solo stuff. Or rather, more specifically, it would cover how the band splintered post-1998 leading to Mike’s “solo” being the touring BB group, Al doing whatever (a truthful doc would delve into how he was quite marginalized by all sides during that time), and obviously Brian’s 2000s renaissance.

But I find some elements and sentiments in the new Disney doc pretty regressive in how it depicts the story/narrative, and riding the “Brian was the genius, and everybody else is far, far less important” narrative is something I also find regressive. It’s far more complicated than that.

If *I* were given carte blanche to do a documentary, there would be plenty of room for both Dennis’s “Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys. We’re nothing, he’s everything” quote/sentiment (which is very powerful if contextualized correctly), as well as plenty of examination of the point of view of the other members, both the good and the bad, the justified and the unjustified. It is *their* story too. I don’t begrudge any of these guys wanting a say in all the stuff they put out, whether an audio boxed set, a book, or a film.

The idea would be to find a smart and talented filmmaker (in the case of a doc) to be fair and moderate everybody’s point of view. Guess who is both a filmmaker and an expert, and understands all of these guys and is sympathetic to all elements of the story? He’s the guy who made the 1998 “Endless Harmony” doc.

[HeyJude]

Look, there are obviously, internally in the BB organization, over 60 years of built up politics and history, and that includes sentiments or feelings that are not always sympathetic to Brian, and in some cases unfair.

But I'm not sure how we arrived at there being some sort of current, present-day vast movement of people trying to "f**k over Brian Wilson."

This new doc is not good, and how it addresses Brian is certainly part of that. But it's really a case of the thing being bungled, as opposed to a purposeful conspiracy.

I'm not saying people don't still try to get certain facts/sentiments/points of view into these things. But going around saying in 2024 there is a large movement of people trying to "f**k over Brian Wilson" because they're jealous is, well, I don't know what that is. Like, let's just say whatever we mean. Is this code for Mike Love? Or is this really a case of like trying to regress back to the "everybody else in the band are talentless and would be pumping gas if it weren't for Brian" narrative?

I'm not saying Mike Love doesn't want to still get his story/narrative across, and we've *all always* been aware (or should have been) that we're headed towards a "last man standing" situation with these aging guys where the narrative will never *not* be spun at least a little bit.

But I think people are being pretty conciliatory and sympathetic and compassionate about Brian Wilson in 2024. Mike Love still wants everybody to know Murry boned him over the songwriting issue. But I also think his heart breaks seeing Brian in rough shape, as it does everybody. And like all of us, they all take that in and process it differently. Look at poor Al, on the red carpet seemingly convinced they all still have more songwriting and another album in them. Hey, I hope he's right.