Documentary!

[Zenobi]

I confess that, based on all that has been said, I despise this documentary without having seen it. The omissions etc. are simply TOO glaring. And you don't need to wait for a weapon to strike you, to know it will hurt you.
I'll try to be clearer. The Beach Boys did not end in 1967 or so. Even talking only of their music, their history is really rich and complex, with many phases.
Imho these phases are:

Sun in the fun but not only: 1962-1965
Art pop: 1965-1966
Psychedelia: 1966-1967
Low-fi intimate pop with some rock: 1967-1971
Pop/rock/funky/country (and a bit of psychedelia with Mt. Vernon): 1972-1976
Avant-garde pop/rock: 1977
Retro: 1978-1996
Solo Brian: 1988-2021, and I could identify phases also in that, too
Short but excellent resurgence of the group: 2012

The Beach Boys do not need pandering, their eternal place in the History of Music is already secured. But somebody wants to reduce them to "Baby Blue Bathing Suit".

[guitarfool2002]

I am just amazed and disappointed that one of the landmark songs of the Beach Boys' career - if not the 70's overall - was not included on this soundtrack. And that's "Til I Die". Maybe Brian himself vetoed it as he did "Let Him Run Wild" on the '93 box set, but I'm absolutely shocked Til I Die isn't on the soundtrack, especially if the point is to 1. sell Beach Boys music to new generations and fans and 2. introduce new generations and fans to their music. It's one of the most unique and compelling recordings I've ever heard, and it should be on there for a wider audience to hear and experience.

I'd like to know what decision-making process was behind that song's exclusion. If it was Brian's call, it's disappointing but I can live with that. If including it would be too much of a "downer", if you know what I mean, I'd be righteously pissed off.

[Angela Jones]

I am just amazed and disappointed that one of the landmark songs of the Beach Boys' career - if not the 70's overall - was not included on this soundtrack. And that's "Til I Die". Maybe Brian himself vetoed it as he did "Let Him Run Wild" on the '93 box set, but I'm absolutely shocked Til I Die isn't on the soundtrack, especially if the point is to 1. sell Beach Boys music to new generations and fans and 2. introduce new generations and fans to their music. It's one of the most unique and compelling recordings I've ever heard, and it should be on there for a wider audience to hear and experience.

I'd like to know what decision-making process was behind that song's exclusion. If it was Brian's call, it's disappointing but I can live with that. If including it would be too much of a "downer", if you know what I mean, I'd be righteously pissed off.

I just wish to agree with all written in this post. And Surf's Up didn't get full play either and isn't on the sound track. To me, the absence of these songs haunts the film.

The fact that some friends of Brian's and family members had shown some support for the film made me consider that their wish was to pay tribute to Brian. The words of The Wrecking Crew certainly did that. But the music - the most significant music - is surely the biggest compliment we could pay The Big Guy.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I want to see this lineup on tour.

[Ptolemaios]

Few first thoughts about the docu.

Definitely a well made documentary, professional, a big improvement on the last Brian docu Long promised road. No complaints in quality department from me except the weird pitch problems with some of the interview voices; Brian sounded weird in atleast one clip. I’m especially glad the irrelevant celebrity talking heads were kept to a minimum. This too a big improvement from the typical BB docus. No head of Elton John appearing out nowhere to tell ”Brian is a genius!”

The obvious problem with the docu is the running time is too short to tell even the first half of the story in a comprehensive way – this is what explains the fact that the docu seems to cut short; there simply is no other way to do it in under 2 hours but to cut it short and of course the golden years of the 60’s need to have more time in a docu than the 70’s for example. This should have been a multiple part series. When you have an hour and 50 minutes you have to make tought decisons what to cut. All of us (or atleast most of us) here would like to watch a documentary where Brian explains for three hours what the ”cork” in ’Til I die really was about but it is not realistic to expect this to happen in a mainstream docu, and as sad as it is much stuff that should have been there has to be cut.

I think this was a good docu in that it got me thinking once again about the band. What this documentary especially reminded me is how the story of the Beach Boys is essentially a story of wasted potential. As sad as that is it is what it is. And the failure of the Smile project is the quintessential moment of this story of wasted potential. I understand this is a useless thing to say and nobody on this board of all people needs to be reminded of this but they should have finished it and gone where ever that road would have taken them. Loosing the best years of Dennis and Carl to drugs also a big part of the story of wasted potential...

I don’t agree why Mike gets so much criticism for how he has been should we say bitter, angry and frustrated about how he got screwed concerning the songwriting credits and royalties; if I had written songs with Brian Wilson including some genuine pop music classics and his dad had screwed me over about it, to put it mildly I would sue anyone anywhere to get right this wrong righted. This is not reason to criticise Mike. Mike like everyone has an ego, we hc fans now this, but some of it is perfectly understandable. He's probably traumatized about it which is why he brings it up so often. I understand maybe this topic would not be a very necessary thing in a docu like this especially since the credits have been corrected since and his part in creating songs was clearly represented. However, I think the reason why the director decided to include this in the docu is that he wanted to underline the unhealthy character of Murry.

The one plain thing this documentary told us about the reasons for the failure of Smile is that it was down to something happening in Brian’s life that made his professional life as the leader of the group unravel. Was it just the drugs and the mental problems those created? Was he literally so out of his mind on drugs he wasn’t able to literally physically and then mentally to actually do all the work required? This is what I was asking myself while watching. Also, it seems how what Mike has said in years past that in the end it was Brian’s choice alone to abandon the project probably is an accurate summary after all. All of us here know that there is a alot more to the story regarding details – though we dont have the complete picture either – but in the end I guess it really was just Brian’s decision. This brings the question that I cant answer; what happened to him?

I sometimes wonder what the boys privately talk about Smile to people they trust; it is obvious we have never gotten all the facts of what happened which is sad because that time is the part of the band that in many ways defined much of the story of the band. The Beautiful dreamer docu back in the day was worthless in explaining any of this and was just a generic promo piece. No books have really given us much except the official version and/or the hazy legend. I wish some serious A-level historian would tackle this subject and write a comprehensive history of the Smile project with new research in academic quality standard including doing multiple interviews again and again with those who were there and are still around to tell the story. And I am talking about serious academic level interviews to get every snippet of possible info to reveal all relevant details.

In general about the documentary I think Mike tearing up at the end was a symbolic detail that shows there is so much more to the story of the band and unfortunately you cannot fit much of that into a single documentary. Considering how old the members are and Brian is no longer capable of telling that story there will likely be much questions left unanswered (especially reagrding Smile).

Oh well, I think it was a good thought provoking documentary.

[juggler]

...
The one plain thing this documentary told us about the reasons for the failure of Smile is that it was down to something happening in Brian’s life that made his professional life as the leader of the group unravel. Was it just the drugs and the mental problems those created? Was he literally so out of his mind on drugs he wasn’t able to literally physically and then mentally to actually do all the work required? This is what I was asking myself while watching. Also, it seems how what Mike has said in years past that in the end it was Brian’s choice alone to abandon the project probably is an accurate summary after all. All of us here know that there is a alot more to the story regarding details – though we dont have the complete picture either – but in the end I guess it really was just Brian’s decision. This brings the question that I cant answer; what happened to him?

I sometimes wonder what the boys privately talk about Smile to people they trust; it is obvious we have never gotten all the facts of what happened which is sad because that time is the part of the band that in many ways defined much of the story of the band. The Beautiful dreamer docu back in the day was worthless in explaining any of this and was just a generic promo piece. No books have really given us much except the official version and/or the hazy legend. I wish some serious A-level historian would tackle this subject and write a comprehensive history of the Smile project with new research in academic quality standard including doing multiple interviews again and again with those who were there and are still around to tell the story. And I am talking about serious academic level interviews to get every snippet of possible info to reveal all relevant details.

In general about the documentary I think Mike tearing up at the end was a symbolic detail that shows there is so much more to the story of the band and unfortunately you cannot fit much of that into a single documentary. Considering how old the members are and Brian is no longer capable of telling that story there will likely be much questions left unanswered (especially reagrding Smile).

I used the word "anachronistic" to describe this documentary's treatment of "Smile" because the way it was treated wasn't all that different from how it was presented in "An American Band" from 40 freakin' years ago:
1976-era unhinged Brian Wilson talking about how unhinged he had been 10 years earlier... check.
Scrawny, poorly dressed, weirdo-phase Van Dyke Parks holding court in the Tower Records parking lot... check.
Misleading use of the "Good Vibrations" fire department film footage when Brian is talking about the "Fire" track sessions... check.
"Inside Pop" footage of Brian at piano doing Surf's Up... check.

There was no acknowledgment whatsoever that the legend of Smile as the greatest album never released grew exponentially over the decades and how the music was too damned briliiant to stay hidden.... and trickled out bit by bit on the BBs' own albums and on bootlegs... hell, Frank Holmes' Smile shop ended up on the freakin' cover for a mid-90s hardcover book on the subject of bootlegs... that's how iconic it was and is.  And yet where is Frank Holmes' artwork in this new documentary?  The Smile shop cover is an utterly iconic piece of Beach Boys lore... and yet it's a no-show in this film?   This was a movie made by people who don't quite "get it."   You can say that "Beautfiul Dreamer" was a promo film, but the story told by the likes of Vosse and Anderle differed significantly from the "crazy," "acid alliteration" narrative told by Mike Love and 1976-ish Brian Wilson.

 This documentary would have done more justice to subject of Smile if they had simply repackaged Capitol's promo interviews from 2011...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7vCQisW_4
...  where Mark Linett hits the nail on the head on why the Smile legend had grown ("... because the music is so stunning")... and  Mike is full of praise for "Wonderful," "brilliant music, brilliant tracks" etc. and Bruce mentions Brian's description of a "teenage symphony to God" ... and how did *that* iconic phrase not make the cut in this documentary either??     Again, this was a film made by people who just don't get it.

[Jim Curtis]

I’m so looking forward to part 2 next year.  That will take us from 1980 to present and also cover the details and unfortunate tim8ngnofmthe deaths of Carl and Dennis. It will detail the Landry years and Brian’s emergence with the help of Melinda

[Zenobi]

I am just amazed and disappointed that one of the landmark songs of the Beach Boys' career - if not the 70's overall - was not included on this soundtrack. And that's "Til I Die". Maybe Brian himself vetoed it as he did "Let Him Run Wild" on the '93 box set, but I'm absolutely shocked Til I Die isn't on the soundtrack, especially if the point is to 1. sell Beach Boys music to new generations and fans and 2. introduce new generations and fans to their music. It's one of the most unique and compelling recordings I've ever heard, and it should be on there for a wider audience to hear and experience.

I'd like to know what decision-making process was behind that song's exclusion. If it was Brian's call, it's disappointing but I can live with that. If including it would be too much of a "downer", if you know what I mean, I'd be righteously pissed off.

In fact, 'Til I Die is far too sublime to ever be a downer...

[Zenobi]

...
The one plain thing this documentary told us about the reasons for the failure of Smile is that it was down to something happening in Brian’s life that made his professional life as the leader of the group unravel. Was it just the drugs and the mental problems those created? Was he literally so out of his mind on drugs he wasn’t able to literally physically and then mentally to actually do all the work required? This is what I was asking myself while watching. Also, it seems how what Mike has said in years past that in the end it was Brian’s choice alone to abandon the project probably is an accurate summary after all. All of us here know that there is a alot more to the story regarding details – though we dont have the complete picture either – but in the end I guess it really was just Brian’s decision. This brings the question that I cant answer; what happened to him?

I sometimes wonder what the boys privately talk about Smile to people they trust; it is obvious we have never gotten all the facts of what happened which is sad because that time is the part of the band that in many ways defined much of the story of the band. The Beautiful dreamer docu back in the day was worthless in explaining any of this and was just a generic promo piece. No books have really given us much except the official version and/or the hazy legend. I wish some serious A-level historian would tackle this subject and write a comprehensive history of the Smile project with new research in academic quality standard including doing multiple interviews again and again with those who were there and are still around to tell the story. And I am talking about serious academic level interviews to get every snippet of possible info to reveal all relevant details.

In general about the documentary I think Mike tearing up at the end was a symbolic detail that shows there is so much more to the story of the band and unfortunately you cannot fit much of that into a single documentary. Considering how old the members are and Brian is no longer capable of telling that story there will likely be much questions left unanswered (especially reagrding Smile).

I used the word "anachronistic" to describe this documentary's treatment of "Smile" because the way it was treated wasn't all that different from how it was presented in "An American Band" from 40 freakin' years ago:
1976-era unhinged Brian Wilson talking about how unhinged he had been 10 years earlier... check.
Scrawny, poorly dressed, weirdo-phase Van Dyke Parks holding court in the Tower Records parking lot... check.
Misleading use of the "Good Vibrations" fire department film footage when Brian is talking about the "Fire" track sessions... check.
"Inside Pop" footage of Brian at piano doing Surf's Up... check.

There was no acknowledgment whatsoever that the legend of Smile as the greatest album never released grew exponentially over the decades and how the music was too damned briliiant to stay hidden.... and trickled out bit by bit on the BBs' own albums and on bootlegs... hell, Frank Holmes' Smile shop ended up on the freakin' cover for a mid-90s hardcover book on the subject of bootlegs... that's how iconic it was and is.  And yet where is Frank Holmes' artwork in this new documentary?  The Smile shop cover is an utterly iconic piece of Beach Boys lore... and yet it's a no-show in this film?   This was a movie made by people who don't quite "get it."   You can say that "Beautfiul Dreamer" was a promo film, but the story told by the likes of Vosse and Anderle differed significantly from the "crazy," "acid alliteration" narrative told by Mike Love and 1976-ish Brian Wilson.

 This documentary would have done more justice to subject of Smile if they had simply repackaged Capitol's promo interviews from 2011...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7vCQisW_4
...  where Mark Linett hits the nail on the head on why the Smile legend had grown ("... because the music is so stunning")... and  Mike is full of praise for "Wonderful," "brilliant music, brilliant tracks" etc. and Bruce mentions Brian's description of a "teenage symphony to God" ... and how did *that* iconic phrase not make the cut in this documentary either??     Again, this was a film made by people who just don't get it.

Asking the "Baby Blue Bathing Suit" crowd to "get" SMiLE is far too much. I wonder if they really get California Girls, and in particukar WHY it's such a great song. Probably they don't.

This reminds me of a critique leveled at many fans of Bach music. Namely, they don't really love Bach, they just like generic Baroque music because it's so "classic", and they have no idea of what actually makes Bach great (i.e., he was groundbreaking, and his music is not just Barioque, it's universal). That is exactly the problem with the Beach Boys, and Brian Wilson.

[Rocker]

I don't know where this would fit in best so I'll just put it here:


"We went blind": The Beach Boys' Al Jardine on recording 'Pet Sounds,' Beatles & Stones, favorite BB song & more

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/we-went-blind-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-on-recording-pet-sounds-beatles-stones-favorite-bb-song-more/?

[Pretty Funky]

The documentary is a ‘tasting plate’ for the viewer. Those that want to delve further into the group can now do so. Why anybody expected anything else with a 1.53 play time is beyond me.
If it was made and promoted with 6 episodes over 12 hours (which this group could easily fill), then everything could have been covered. The market however would have been negligible.

[juggler]

The documentary is a ‘tasting plate’ for the viewer. Those that want to delve further into the group can now do so. Why anybody expected anything else with a 1.53 play time is beyond me.
If it was made and promoted with 6 episodes over 12 hours (which this group could easily fill), then everything could have been covered. The market however would have been negligible.

I'm not expecting in-depth analysis of, say, the role of Maureen Love's harp on Catch a Wave.
But, I'm sorry, Dennis' drowning death shouldn't be relegated to "deep dive" status. 

[HeyJude]

The documentary is a ‘tasting plate’ for the viewer. Those that want to delve further into the group can now do so. Why anybody expected anything else with a 1.53 play time is beyond me.
If it was made and promoted with 6 episodes over 12 hours (which this group could easily fill), then everything could have been covered. The market however would have been negligible.

Endless Harmony covered 1961 to 1998 in 1hr48mins (less for the TV edit), and felt less rushed than this new doc.

Also, some of the best interview clips in this new thing are literally taken either from actual "Endless Harmony" 1998 interviews and/or from the raw interviews done for EH.

They should have just let Alan Boyd do a re-cut on EH.

[Zenobi]

On YouTube there is a video titled "The Beach Boys on Disney+: You Need a Mess To Help You Stand Alone". She's way blunter than me, and she HAS seen the documentary.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

The documentary is a ‘tasting plate’ for the viewer. Those that want to delve further into the group can now do so. Why anybody expected anything else with a 1.53 play time is beyond me.
If it was made and promoted with 6 episodes over 12 hours (which this group could easily fill), then everything could have been covered. The market however would have been negligible.

Agreed. There's also the fact that this was made for Disney streaming. The rough edges were always going to be sanded down.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

I think this was a good docu in that it got me thinking once again about the band. What this documentary especially reminded me is how the story of the Beach Boys is essentially a story of wasted potential. As sad as that is it is what it is. And the failure of the Smile project is the quintessential moment of this story of wasted potential. I understand this is a useless thing to say and nobody on this board of all people needs to be reminded of this but they should have finished it and gone where ever that road would have taken them. Loosing the best years of Dennis and Carl to drugs also a big part of the story of wasted potential...

All your points are good; I'll just highlight this one.

Adding to this: the story of the Beach Boys is also the story of a group that was and continues to be (sadly) never entirely in control of its own story. Or can even agree on what exactly that story is.

[Zenobi]

About SMiLE 1967's demise, the truth has been known since 1993 (liner notes in GV box): Brian had to can the project to save his own life. He was literally imploding.

[Till I Die]

TID is my favorite song by any composer, writer, band, artist, etc.

It is an opus in songwriting and highs be on the soundtrack.

The Stephen Desper alt mix is my favorite and has been my favorite song since I heard the air version in 1994.

[Pretty Funky]

But, I'm sorry, Dennis' drowning death shouldn't be relegated to "deep dive" status. 

Ouch! 😉

[feelintheflows]

I think there are a lot of things that screwed the beach boys, especially in the long run, which is why we’re still talking about it to this day.  But there’s a few that stick out for me , First being capital records I feel ever since the Beatles came they Just put the beach boys on the back burner. 2nd was withdrawing from Monterey Festival. Third being the endless summer release yes it brought them back to the top but at what cost?

[HeyJude]

There are bigger,  more fundamental issues with the doc than simply being a "whitewash."

And again,  this also isn't about not pandering to hardcore fans. 

This was not a well-made doc. There are other "entry level" docs on a myriad of subjects that are done well. 

[Lonely Summer]

I don't know where this would fit in best so I'll just put it here:


"We went blind": The Beach Boys' Al Jardine on recording 'Pet Sounds,' Beatles & Stones, favorite BB song & more

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/we-went-blind-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-on-recording-pet-sounds-beatles-stones-favorite-bb-song-more/?

Recording Pet Sounds and competing with the Beatles made them go blind?
I was told it was something else that would make me go blind!

[Zenobi]

There are bigger,  more fundamental issues with the doc than simply being a "whitewash."

And again,  this also isn't about not pandering to hardcore fans.  

This was not a wel

l-made doc. There are other "entry level" docs on a myriad of subjects that are done well.  

Also, 1h 53m is not so short if you don't waste your time. The 8 hours by Peter Jackson on the Beatles are an outlier. A lesser director would get very boring on an 8 hour stretch, but Peter Jackson is a master of the long form.

[Zenobi]

I don't know where this would fit in best so I'll just put it here:


"We went blind": The Beach Boys' Al Jardine on recording 'Pet Sounds,' Beatles & Stones, favorite BB song & more

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/we-went-blind-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-on-recording-pet-sounds-beatles-stones-favorite-bb-song-more/?

Recording Pet Sounds and competing with the Beatles made them go blind?
I was told it was something else that would make me go blind!

Too much Stamos?

[Pretty Funky]

On the EH board there are complaints about a positive review. What a mixed up world we live in.