What's Mike said now?

[positivemusic]

I posted this on the other board in response to a poster, who rather in good faith or not, insisted that Mike takes being cancelled and/or arrested by the FBI "seriously," because parents and teachers have been arrested for giving their opinions at school board meetings, etc. politely.

Oh god, let me guess it was filleplage?

Absolutely serious question: how on Earth did you guess that!? Haha!

[HeyJude]

I posted this on the other board in response to a poster, who rather in good faith or not, insisted that Mike takes being cancelled and/or arrested by the FBI "seriously," because parents and teachers have been arrested for giving their opinions at school board meetings, etc. politely.

Oh god, let me guess it was filleplage?

Absolutely serious question: how on Earth did you guess that!? Haha!

I won't answer for anybody else, but there is a very specific gaslighting method that filledeplage had on this board of doing the most gymnastics possible to defend Mike Love against even the most mild of criticisms. Round and round and round trying to justify the stuff he has said or done over the years.

I think we've all, at least the folks that have been here awhile, we've all kind of learned to just ignore most of Mike's stuff. The days of calling Mike out in 1998 for being a "Fake Beach Boys" are long gone. It's usually easy to just let him be whatever he's going to be.

But still from time to time, new controversial comments come up. And they are discussed here, because it's on-topic and that's what we do.

I have no problem listening to Mike's work and giving him the huge credit he deserves. But I also have no problem, *when the subject comes up*, of dispensing with the bulls**t and getting down to brass tacks about the things he says. A few fans from time to time think Mike is being attacked. But *every time* these threads come up, it's because of a NEW interview, or report, or something he's said or done.

The only notable time things got stirred up without any triggering event was however many years ago when that British comedian came on and tried to stir up a bunch of stuff by fake-innocuously posting "Why does everyone hate Mike Love so much?." He did it to then harvest "anti-Mike" comments for a pro-Mike article he ended up writing (that hardly anybody saw because it was behind a paywall).

[HeyJude]

If they're going to do something other than just sing songs on stage, can they at least just go back to Bruce plugging Mike's Club KoKoMo canned cocktails?

[SMiLE Brian]

I posted this on the other board in response to a poster, who rather in good faith or not, insisted that Mike takes being cancelled and/or arrested by the FBI "seriously," because parents and teachers have been arrested for giving their opinions at school board meetings, etc. politely.

Oh god, let me guess it was filleplage?

Absolutely serious question: how on Earth did you guess that!? Haha!

Experience haha, been dealing with stuff like that since I registered in 2011!

[Awesoman]

...or more realistically he's just poking fun at the whole Bud Light debacle because that's what has been topical lately.  He's been making politically-tinged jokes (for better or for worse) for decades now.  I don't think he's Considering that this very thread started with someone whining about "right wing pieces of sh*t" (which is code for "how dare someone have a different opinion than me"), I'd say your point goes both ways.  Regardless as to whether or not I agree or disagree with Mike on any given topic, I found this joke to be kinda lame ultimately.  But a joke nonetheless.  Something not newsworthy or even worthy of the scrutiny of this message board.  Something that you either chuckle or groan at and then move on with your day unscathed.   

Actually it might not be clear, it was not calling anybody “right wing pieces of sh*t.” They were quoting a Tweet which I had also seen from a person I can not remember. So let’s get that out of the way.

Also I am confused as to why “right wing pieces of sh*t” hurts you so much, but Mike’s words are fine? You’re hurt that somebody (nobody on this board) attacked your political beliefs it seems like. But if Mike makes jokes about trans or nonbinary people, they should just “get over it” you say? Hmmm.

Thank you for the clarification - I clearly misread what the OP said and thought it was coming from him.  So apologies for that confusion to the OP.  That said - neither comment "hurts" me; both comments were ultimately benign and stupid.  I was just pointing out some selective outrage going on. 

And yes - you can make jokes about anything you want.  Nobody is above a little mockery.  Whether the jokes are in good taste or not is entirely subjective. 

[HeyJude]

And yes - you can make jokes about anything you want.  Nobody is above a little mockery.  Whether the jokes are in good taste or not is entirely subjective. 

I would imagine Mike Love thinks this way too, which is why he so often ends up saying something that ends with many fans of the band (I'd say the vast majority in fact) disappointed and face-palming for the thousandth time.

I'm not going to bring up the million obvious examples, but is really *anything* okay to make fun of and attack? I'm not talking a legal right to free speech. Like, at what point would it veer into hate speech that you would denounce? What if he makes fun of people in the audience with disabilities? What if he makes fun of some specific ethnicity?

I think the point is that of course Mike or anybody can say anything they want, and consequently he'll have to deal with the reaction. Fans that think Mike's "just tellin' some groaners" are going to have to deal with the reaction. And frankly, the incredulous "I don't see the problem here" stuff about Mike's predictable continued series of face-planting comments and affiliations only grows more tiresome.

Thankfully, as referenced a few posts ago, I think most of that stuff went away when filledeplage and a few others were no longer posting here. 

I think fans who realize Mike says this stuff, and feels it's unfortunate, have largely stayed pretty relaxed about it after all these years. Especially long-time fans who know the history well. Folks who are familiar with Mike "screw the UN, they don't buy Beach Boys tickets" Love defending playing Sun City (though the other guys in the band went along with it as well, well aside from Carl who was out of the band at the time), and Mike "I'd like to see the dead John Lennon match our touring schedule" Love cementing his reputation at the '88 Rock Hall induction. And the list goes on.

Even after all of this, I still celebrate Mike and his talent and place in the band's history. I've learned over the years to just divorce the good stuff about Mike Love from the continued disappointing moments. But it doesn't mean we have to just ignore it or dismiss it. I'm fine just talking about it, noting it, and moving on.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

There's also the issue of stepping on the performance of a classic song like Surfer Girl with this nonsense. Like, Mike is the ambassador of the Beach Boys brand in 2023... he really is. He could preface Surfer Girl with a story about him and Brian writing and arranging the song, memories of their early days of fame... really anything at all with emotional resonance for the fans. Instead he chooses... this.

[HeyJude]

There's also the issue of stepping on the performance of a classic song like Surfer Girl with this nonsense. Like, Mike is the ambassador of the Beach Boys brand in 2023... he really is. He could preface Surfer Girl with a story about him and Brian writing and arranging the song, memories of their early days of fame... really anything at all with emotional resonance for the fans. Instead he chooses... this.

Oh yes, absolutely. Separate from the specific topical nature of the comments, it's just bad showmanship and unprofessional and distracts from the music. It's strange, because Mike always prides himself on being like *the* frontman.

An easy test: Imagine a reunion tour where Brian does a long, protracted bit about how insipid and banal and dorky "Full House" and John Stamos is, like as an intro to some random song. Can you imagine Mike being okay with that? Or what if Al Jardine did a drawn-out bit about how awful Donald Trump is, right before performing "Help Me Rhonda." Would Mike be okay with that?

I only draw the contrast/comparison as it relates to the unprofessionalism and hackery that's involved in unsolicited and unprompted diatribes.

I'm not comparing razzing John Stamos (a privileged contemporary/friend of the band) to Mike's literal punching down in his "Surfer Girl" bit, which I find morally far, far more repugnant. The latter is far worse in every way. But both would be a dumb distraction to a show, and Mike I think absolutely would selectively put up with the latter but not the former.

[Wirestone]

I mean, it's been well-known since the '80s that the Beach Boys are to the right. They popped up with Reagan.

Even Brian told an interviewer in 2008 that he planned to vote for John McCain because he made Brian feel "safe."

So I don't think this has much to do with politics. It's just another example in the larger saga of how Mike wants to present himself and his band as the Beach Boys.

I was listening to Beach Boys Talk last night, and Nelson Bragg noted on his episode that the C50 tour was one of the TOP 10 tours in 2012. The band came in at number eight or something. The fact that Mike willingly turned his back on that -- selling out amphitheaters and other giant venues, making loads of cash, and having high-profile opportunities everywhere -- continues to resonate.

Mike wants to tour at a level where he can peddle whatever he wants and face no pushback. Like it or not, that's more valuable to him than his bandmates or the music itself. At some level, he likes shooting himself in the foot.

He's a talented dude, a great singer and outstanding lyricist when he puts his mind to it. He was by far the nicest of the guys when I met them all backstage in 2012. He's probably the one it would be most fun to have a beer with. But Mike's management of the brand on the road leaves so much to be desired.

[Musketeer]

There's also the issue of stepping on the performance of a classic song like Surfer Girl with this nonsense. Like, Mike is the ambassador of the Beach Boys brand in 2023... he really is. He could preface Surfer Girl with a story about him and Brian writing and arranging the song, memories of their early days of fame... really anything at all with emotional resonance for the fans. Instead he chooses... this.

Mike could tell a story about Brian and him writing and arranging Surfer Girl but it was entirely a Brian Wilson creation words and melody

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

There's also the issue of stepping on the performance of a classic song like Surfer Girl with this nonsense. Like, Mike is the ambassador of the Beach Boys brand in 2023... he really is. He could preface Surfer Girl with a story about him and Brian writing and arranging the song, memories of their early days of fame... really anything at all with emotional resonance for the fans. Instead he chooses... this.

Mike could tell a story about Brian and him writing and arranging Surfer Girl but it was entirely a Brian Wilson creation words and melody

Sure. I was intentionally being a bit generous/Mike-friendly in that phrasing. But I still feel certain he could tell a story about the song's creation if he wished. Maybe about the harmony stack they created in the studio?

Or, no story at all -- that's fine too. Just sing the damn song and give it some respect.

[HeyJude]

I'm not trying to dogpile on everything Mike does on stage, but he has often (perhaps not always) not been great about telling Brian "stories" on stage at his own shows, and/or speaking of Brian in general. Meaning, *many* folks I've talked to who have seen Mike's shows have come away feeling like Mike talks about Brian as if Brian's dead, and has been dead for awhile.

It always seems nice at first when you hear Mike talk about Brian, especially in the last 25-40 years when they've usually been somewhat estranged. But there is almost always a weird kind of hedge to it; there's always a tone of "this is how he was; he isn't like that anymore", a lot of speaking about him in the past tense. The best you often get is stuff like that 1998 "Endless Harmony" interview where Mike says something about how "Brian had a great gift for arranging vocals", and then adds "still does", as if he's surprised and for once actually thinking about Brian *in the present tense* instead of just thinking about how "Brian was great back when *I* was part of his life."

Mike *very briefly* got partially out of the mode during the 2012 reunion. He had a similar "surprised" tone to reacting to Brian presenting the group with "Think About the Days" in 2011:

“When he first started playing the chord progressions,” Love remembers, “I was standing there, thinking, ‘Wow, that’s cool, that’s a certain type of Brian Wilson chord change.’ I thought, ‘sh*t – he’s got all his talents intact.’ ”

Sadly, *that* is the type of talk about Brian from Mike that makes us feel the most warm and fuzzy. "Holy sh*t, he's not complete toast!"

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Yes to all this. I've seen Mike's BBs in concert three times in the 2010s, and while I enjoyed each show... the tonal thing re Brian is jarring, even knowing it's coming, and more than a bit eerie.

[Zenobi]

I  am a Brianista, and not even a conservative, but simply can't stand anymore this endless anti-Mike campaign. It's a new kind of bigotry.

bigotry
bĭg′ə-trē
noun
The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.
The character or mode of thought of a bigot; obstinate and unreasonable attachment to a particular creed, opinion, practice, ritual, or party organization; excessive zeal or warmth in favor of a party, sect, or opinion; intolerance of the opinions of others.
Synonyms Credulity, Fanaticism, etc. (see superstition), narrow-mindedness, prejudice, intolerance.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

So, I'm outta here.

[SMiLE Brian]

Have fun being gaslight for eight paragraphs by filleplage on the other board…

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

Fullpage is the greatest Beach Boys poster of all time #bringherhome mods

[Zenobi]

SMiLE Brian, I actually like you and OSD.
Never had any problem with you. You both have been always rabidly anti-Mike, but with a light touch based mostly on funny one-liners, and even a bit of self-irony IMHO.
I like your answer to my post, I find it rather friendly, and funny.

[SMiLE Brian]

It’s all good Zenobi!

[Jim V.]

Have fun being gaslight for eight paragraphs by filleplage on the other board…

That really is filledplage. Seems to almost willfully misunderstand topics, goes off on insane tangents, and can't find a bad thing to say about Mike Love. Also interestingly will defend something like Summer In Paradise but apparently not much of That's Why God Made The Radio. This "filledeplage" character has to be somebody's idea of a joke, right?

As much of a bummer as it was to have the board break apart, certain posters like that surely aren't missed at all, at least in my opinion. And this board is the better for it, though things have gotten a bit slow.

[HeyJude]

I  am a Brianista, and not even a conservative, but simply can't stand anymore this endless anti-Mike campaign. It's a new kind of bigotry.

bigotry
bĭg′ə-trē
noun
The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.
The character or mode of thought of a bigot; obstinate and unreasonable attachment to a particular creed, opinion, practice, ritual, or party organization; excessive zeal or warmth in favor of a party, sect, or opinion; intolerance of the opinions of others.
Synonyms Credulity, Fanaticism, etc. (see superstition), narrow-mindedness, prejudice, intolerance.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

So, I'm outta here.

It's not a campaign; it's a REACTION to something Mike has been saying at his shows.

And frankly, if you read/hear what Mike has been saying/doing in this bit at his shows, and you think the *fan response* to that is "bigotry", then yeah, you're probably not cut out for a conversation about these issues.

Claiming bigotry in a thread where people are making reasoned, *GOOD FAITH* arguments and discussions, sometimes in the face of "he's just tellin' bad jokes" which I think sometimes veers into a bad faith argument, is, well, far more offensive than anything being said in this thread.

[Zenobi]

Don't worry, HeyJude, will not trouble your righteousness any more after this. Just a last remark: you just made a perfect example of why I have never had any problem with SMiLE Brian and OSD, but I have with you practically always. They have a light touch, your own is as light as a ton of bricks.
And now you can resume your favourite pastime, Mike bashing. Have at him!

[Zenobi]

On the other hand, I think I can reassure SMiLE Brian. Not going to commit treachery. I read some more threads "there" and it's as baffling as the Mike bashing here. There is no blatant anti-Brian campaign, but the level of passive aggression leveled at him by some posters, including at least one admin and one famous historian, would have me deflagrate in no time if I were a member. So, no way.

[Zenobi]

Partly to try and clarify my previous post, and partly to further ease my mind from HJ, I'll quote this from the Other Board:

"Given the law of diminishing returns, Brian's recent problems and the high probability of it being mostly not that "new" at all, I just can't get worked up at all over the prospect of another BW album. For all its faults and problems, let No Pier Pressure be his last proper vocal release."

This is a textbook example of passive aggression. Translation in plain English: "Brian is toast and has been since Heaven knows when. Nothing by him will be any good in any case, so I'll accept even NPP as his final statement. At My Piano and Long Promised Road, and anything else he may do, may go f*** themselves."

See? Already deflagrated.

And so, I guess, that's it with my long relationship with BB fandom. Heaven knows it's been rough sailing. I'm returning to basics... the best music ever made by anyone in the world. The world of their music, where nobody will keep reminding either that Mike is Devil incarnate or that Brian is toast and did nothing good since 1966. The music by

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Alan, Bruce, David, Blondie, Ricky and all the others.

The Beach Boys.

[patsy6]

This is an excellent thread. And I'd just like to add my two cents. On various Beach Boys social media pages discussing politics is verboten, yet it often becomes the elephant in the room while Mike keeps injecting it into Beach Boys branded shows and into the choice of venues at which the Beach Boys perform. Whenever I would voice my disagreement at the Beach Boys performing at the gig sponsored by the organization that promoted trophy hunting, or at the Trump rally, or Mike Love and Dean Torrence performing at Mar a Lago on New Years' Eve of 2020 without a mask in sight, I would get dismissed as simply a Mike Love hater who will never like anything Mike does because of the supposed nasty things he's done to the band. I will admit that I am not a Mike Love fan. I do, however, see that he has made some great contributions to the band and I even find myself sticking up for him in some instances. I will never defend his politics, though, and I will never like him personally. Believe it or not, there are some issues in this world that are more important than the Beach Boys, and in my opinion, Mike is on the wrong side of them 99.9999% of the time.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

It’s all good Zenobi!

Thanks!! Time to start our own fan club!