Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains can be downloaded on Amazon Kindle, but...

[Joel Goldenberg]

The book is a heck of a read — I read it maybe 25 years ago — but I can barely get through a sentence without some kind of error. I'm not referring to factual, at least so far (although I see the reference to Today! being called The Beach Boys was corrected from the book edition I read), but loads and loads of spelling, punctuation and missing word errors. I'm getting through it, but it's very distracting.
https://www.amazon.ca/Heroes-Villains-Steven-Gaines-ebook/dp/B0C29ZCY5N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QCXIM1LEWHQR&keywords=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains&qid=1686256804&sprefix=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-1

[HeyJude]

I looked at a few sample pages, and there are some very egregious typos and misspellings. I don't recall my old physical copy having that type of editorial problem.

Perhaps others are more familiar with e-publishing, especially with older books, but my guess is some sort of automated process was used to convert/scan the text from the original book to an e-book, and nobody proofread for typos.

I would just get one of the gazillion old copies of the physical book. Despite some wonky aspects and an obvious focus on the salacious stuff rather than the music, it has a lot of important information for scholars of the band's history.

[Ian]

Mr Gaines joined the board about 10 years ago (can’t recall exact date now) but then exited when other posters were too negative.

[guitarfool2002]

Mr Gaines joined the board about 10 years ago (can’t recall exact date now) but then exited when other posters were too negative.

I'd like to correct this with all due respect, as it was apparently mentioned on another forum too with no way to (or willingness to) correct it, and it's not entirely accurate.

Steven Gaines was indeed a poster and honored guest here, posting as "Beach Boys Author", starting in August 2008.

Respectfully, Ian, your posts on August 27 2008 were among those that caused Mr. Gaines to say he was leaving. He posted that he was leaving later that same day of the 27th due to the fact-checking and critiques going on, although most posters were positive and genuinely interested in what he had to say.

But he came back to post again that October 2008, then later in 2009 and again in 2010. And he did not exit after 2010, the account is still active.

Here's the links to his posts and his honored guest thread, for those interested in reading what he had to say, and a lot of it was fascinating:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1279;sa=showPosts

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6016.0.html

That's just to set the record straight on what happened with Steven Gaines so it doesn't show up elsewhere again, or if it does, so the accurate version is available to read.

[William Bowe]

I see the reference to Today! being called The Beach Boys was corrected from the book edition I read.
https://www.amazon.ca/Heroes-Villains-Steven-Gaines-ebook/dp/B0C29ZCY5N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QCXIM1LEWHQR&keywords=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains&qid=1686256804&sprefix=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-1

Is it still "an uninspired melange of car tunes"? I actually thought it was the Concert album that he was befuddlingly calling self-titled, since he says it was released in late 1964 and went straight to number one. Like pretty much any book from more than 20 years ago, you can read a scanned copy for free at Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/

In spite of its obvious deficiencies, it's the only account of the band's history that's written by a hard-nosed journalist with an interest in the business side of the band's affairs.

[HeyJude]

A revised edition of the Gaines book that fixes all of the easy-to-fix factual errors, and perhaps with the help of a co-writer/editor who could massage the thing from the point of view of actually loving the music, could make it an even stronger must-have as a biography. As many have pointed out, Gaines had the non-music story down and covered some areas no other book did (the Brian psychodrama in the late 70s being just one example), and clearly had a number of sources that subsequently rarely or never gave interviews on the record again (certainly not *those* types of interviews). The main weakness of the book has always been that it treats the music itself as secondary (but hey, we all already know the music is good), and therefore the salacious-but-accurate stuff in the book kind of seemed extra salacious with little to balance it out.

As is usually the case, the best way to learn about the band is to throw everything, Gaines, Leaf, Carlin, White, Preiss, Stebbins, and so on, into a blender and consume it all. I know some fans think the Gaines stuff is too icky, but it's all part of the story. Yes, even Dennis's alleged prison fantasies.

[guitarfool2002]

Any readers interested in the Gaines book and Gaines himself should read his own words and conversations at the links I posted above. For one, the revelation that he has dozens of taped interviews being kept in a bank vault could hopefully generate interest in getting those published or released someday, either the actual raw tapes or transcripts. And among those tapes is an audio verite recording of the infamous 1978 punch in Australia that was sold to Gaines by Stan and Rocky. The information on these tapes undoubtedly contains "new" details that would add to telling the whole story.

If telling the whole story, and recording it for history, is the main goal of research and publication, sources like this are invaluable and should be mined for information whenever possible. I worry that the Gaines book (and Gaines himself) have been subject of an attempt to marginalize or even discredit what he has collected and what he has presented because the information might cast a negative light on certain key figures in the story, or might go against other narratives which may or may not be coming from various HQ's of the various camps and their PR wings. And this has been happening for decades.

As far as sources in the published book, Gaines had access to several who were as close to the actual band members in both personal and business ways as would be available for those various times in the history. Without naming them outright, and it could be done, consider the information in Gaines' book about the band's business dealings and inner workings in that regard from the late 60's and early 70's, then later in the 70's, and the details about what was happening with and around Brian in the late 70's and early 80's. Fans with a working knowledge of the players at those times should be able to easily ID those people who spoke to Gaines for the book. They're good sources. If what they reported is considered salacious in some circles, what's the alternative? Should Gaines have done a whitewash and not included those details? Or were some of those details hitting too close to home for certain people involved, and they did not want to paint a picture outside whatever narrative is or was being pushed? It's amazing this is still going on decades after the book was published.

I hope as a fan that whatever obstacles are in the way of somehow getting a release of those Gaines tapes will be removed while there is still time to do it and have a proper release of that information. Warts and all. But with the atmosphere around this group, and the constant circling of wagons around the more touchy subjects, there's not much hope of anything like that happening.

[HeyJude]

Several of the unnamed sources in the Gaines book are pretty easy to deduce, especially in retrospect.

Did Gaines just come out and name some of them in those old threads? I can't remember.

But yeah, when you've got like detailed, intimate conversations between two or three people, only one of which is Brian, it's sometimes pretty easy to deduce who was recounting those conversations.

I suspect a revamp of the Gaines book would be difficult due to potential litigation. I've heard other stories of biographies that were published, went out of print, and in the course of attempting to update and republish the work, all of a sudden potential litigation makes it difficult.

His tapes would certainly be an invaluable source; but my recollection of his discussion of those tapes in that old thread was that he didn't seem to be open to making them accessible to fans/scholars, even in the long term.

[Join The Human Race]

I listened to the audiobook a few years ago on YouTube. I knew going in there were a lot of factual inaccuracies about the music and that some fans said it was all sensationalism, but I found that a lot of what I heard, more or less synced up with other information about the band and their inner/personal drama and turmoil. I do think it's too Dennis-centric, but seeing how he had died only a few years before publication, I understand why Gaines put that emphasis on him. It's been awhile since I've read any BB book; but do any others go into the details on Rocky and Stan or Carolyn Williams as Gaines? I feel like those episodes are memory holed in the official BB history.

[Joel Goldenberg]

I see the reference to Today! being called The Beach Boys was corrected from the book edition I read.
https://www.amazon.ca/Heroes-Villains-Steven-Gaines-ebook/dp/B0C29ZCY5N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QCXIM1LEWHQR&keywords=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains&qid=1686256804&sprefix=steven+gaines+heroes+and+villains%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-1

Is it still "an uninspired melange of car tunes"? I actually thought it was the Concert album that he was befuddlingly calling self-titled, since he says it was released in late 1964 and went straight to number one. Like pretty much any book from more than 20 years ago, you can read a scanned copy for free at Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/

In spite of its obvious deficiencies, it's the only account of the band's history that's written by a hard-nosed journalist with an interest in the business side of the band's affairs.

I remember the "car tunes" reference in the original book, and now it says that while the production is advanced from previous albums, some of the songs are uninspired. Also, it still strangely says the Carpenters recorded a version of Don't Worry Baby, and that the Beach Boys recorded a song called Cool Clear Water on Holland.

[patsy6]

I thought Heroes and Villains was, all in all, a great read. I know many fans enjoy getting lost in the minutae of who played what on what song where. And I'm very grateful to those who have documented those details as well as they can be to this point. But my favorite books contain a story, not just hard, cold facts and figures. The Beach Boys have an interesting and compelling story, and Gaines tells it well. Yes, he cites some unnamed sources, which is bothersome, and I wish he had interviewed Carl. One thing that really stands out, however, is that it contains by far the most harrowing and detailed account of Dennis's final days that I've seen in the several Beach Boys books I have read. That alone makes Heroes and Villains worth reading.

[Rocker]

I thought Heroes and Villains was, all in all, a great read. I know many fans enjoy getting lost in the minutae of who played what on what song where. And I'm very grateful to those who have documented those details as well as they can be to this point. But my favorite books contain a story, not just hard, cold facts and figures. The Beach Boys have an interesting and compelling story, and Gaines tells it well. Yes, he cites some unnamed sources, which is bothersome, and I wish he had interviewed Carl. One thing that really stands out, however, is that it contains by far the most harrowing and detailed account of Dennis's final days that I've seen in the several Beach Boys books I have read. That alone makes Heroes and Villains worth reading.

Way back during the old messageboard days, Ed Roach told me once that he was astonished how accurately H&V described Dennis' last days and that Gaines obviously had access to things that Ed thought only he himself knew.
And I agree with you. All the gushing about the great music these men did aside, there must also be room for books that talk about the tragedies and scandals (of which this band had enough).

[Emdeeh]

I still can't recommend that book, because it dwells on dishing the dirt without balancing the story out.

[HeyJude]

I'd offer the book as a recommendation depending on what the person in question wants. Do you want a guide to "appreciating the music?" You probably don't need the Gaines book. (You don't need any book for that of course).

Do you want access to a bunch of first-hand, primary source information integral to understanding the history of the band? Then yes, the Gaines book is something I'd recommend.

I wouldn't hand it someone who just heard like one BB song they liked and want to hear more. The book is for people who are adults and can discern and weigh sources accordingly.

[Emdeeh]

This book is still too tabloidy to recommend, imo. I know about the dirt, but it is not what is important to me re the BBs. I know the continuing fascination with the "dark" stuff exists, but I just don't get that fascination.

I've said my piece about this book; I'm done with this thread.

[HeyJude]

As with any musical artist and the "non-musical" stuff, there are a myriad of layers to what is more or less germane.

I think there is a scholarly level of fascination with as much as detail as possible. I suppose some folks feel that that fascination is too lurid, but I'd offer than the alternative of refusing to acknowledge the "dark" stuff is kind of infantile and a level of ignorance to the band's history that, while certainly not disqualifying one from enjoying the music, might tend to negate one's ability to actually converse about the scholarly side of things.

Dennis's prison fantasies in the Gaines book are probably not a needed detail to understand the inner workings of the band. But, understanding something like the 1977 "tarmac incident" or the 1978 Australian tour debacle, which the Gaines book was first to report in detail and is still the main source for details pertaining to that tour, is *absolutely* integral to understanding the band's history.

Those "dark" events of 1977 and 78 absolutely impacted the music you heard (and didn't hear) on subsequent albums, both thematically, and literally logistically in terms of what did or didn't get made or released after that point.

No, I don't need to think about all of Mike's ex-wives every time I listen to "Sunflower", and I don't need to think of Dennis's final days of 1983 when I listen to "Pacific Ocean Blue." But there are times when those things are appropriate to learn about and discuss.

There's not much of any actual tabloid-level interest in anything to do with the Beach Boys anymore. Nobody in the general public cares. All that's left are the hardcore fans, and those are the people who are most able to understand, say, the Manson stuff in relation to Dennis and the band, while not making it about *just* that.

I just could never in good conscience say that the non-musical stuff is unimportant. Look at something like Lewisohn's "Tune In". EVERY detail in that book is fascinating, and a lot of it doesn't reflect so well on certain people at certain times.

At the risk of sounding a bit pedantic, I think if one is able to realize that all of these people were/are human and have human failings (sometimes very small, sometimes huge), it's easier to absorb all of the good and bad.

[Ian]

As I've said before, I think it is a very entertaining book and it has a lot of important info in it (I interviewed many of the same people for my book-and thus learned many of his sources.... all the people I interviewed corroborated what they said there). I do think, however, that the book would have been better with more on the music itself to balance out the personal stuff.  Still....a very important book, which I recommend reading if you have not.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Those "dark" events of 1977 and 78 absolutely impacted the music you heard (and didn't hear) on subsequent albums, both thematically, and literally logistically in terms of what did or didn't get made or released after that point.

That 'both thematically' comment is quite interesting. I often return to Goin' South on the LA Light album, and find something really poignant in the way Carl's vocal evokes a guy who knows precisely what he needs to do to move forward ("the change of scene... might do me good"), but is seemingly paralyzed and unable to act ("truth is... don't know what I'm waiting for"). Having just reread the articles about the tarmac incident etc, it resonates all the more.

[guitarfool2002]

I understand the critique on Gaines' not focusing enough on the music in his book, but consider at the time the book was released that the video documentary "An American Band" was still a current release also available to rent on home video which had a great presentation of the music, complete with visuals and commentary, and in 78-79 the Byron Preiss book was the book of record for commentary on the music, often from the band members themselves culled from new and old interviews. And that's not mentioning the other sources and outlets available for deeper dives into the music, and also taking into consideration that the status of the live band from roughly 79 to 83 was pretty low in general, minus the high profile gigs like the DC 4th of July gigs and also the attention they received via the James Watt/Reagan brou-ha-ha that saw them invited to the White House and Watt receiving a bronze statue of a foot to ostensibly put in his mouth, even though there was more to the story.

Having first read the book well over 30 years ago, and having seen the attempts to discredit it, if not outright dissuade fans from reading it, sometimes with ridiculous reasons, it's my opinion that specific individuals did so because certain parties in the book did not want certain facts and truths being exposed to the fan base, then or now. It's been the same story and narrative for several decades, where if someone speaks truth on certain issues, they have to be discredited and dismissed because "fill in the blank" might look less than a positive figure as a result.

I think Gaines did a great job as a journalist charged with writing a history and backstory of the band, and his job was not to do a music appreciation series or make the book "all about the music". It was to tell the backstory of the band and the band members, and his sources were credible as he did just that. To suggest otherwise smacks of the kind of denigrate/dismiss/destroy campaign that some had undertaken because perhaps they didn't like certain facts, and unfortunately Gaines and his work got swept into all that nonsense. If fans at the time of the Gaines book's release wanted to read a history focused more on the music, and also where band members had editorial power over what got published, they could buy the Preiss book which was still in print at the time. If they wanted a multimedia presentation of the history of the band focusing on the music, they could buy or rent (or otherwise seek out) the "An American Band" film, which was also current. If Gaines had included more of the music, he'd probably be repeating what fans had already seen in those works, or the book would clock in with a 1,000+ page count. That's not what he was tasked to do. Knowing that, it's obviously up to each fan to decide if they want to read a nuts-and-bolts background history of the band or avoid it because there's not enough about the music or the topics are too personal or esoteric to be published.

I'd recommend it, it's well-researched and backed up with solid 1st person sources.

[Join The Human Race]

Gaines writes about a show at Wembley in 1977 in which Mike, so angry at Brian, threw a piano bench at him, which landed in the audience, almost hitting Christian and Hayleigh Love. Now, wasn't this 1977 Wembley show canceled? All of their European dates were canceled that summer. They did play the CBS Convention in London that summer, but it was a closed show. Gaines writes that the estimate for the audience of this show was over 50,000. Is there any more information on this story? Did it happen? Are the dates/locations mixed up? I've only read about this in the Gaines book.

[Ian]

Correct …the only European show that took place was the CBS convention. I mentioned in my book that there was indeed some tension at that show between Mike and Brian but I don’t believe the incident that he described happened. Most likely he trusted a source too much and they exaggerated. The review of the show stated that Mike rushed toward Brian and “attempted to turn the grand piano over but instead toppled Wilson’s mic over” and that Brian quickly left the stage after that song.