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Author Topic: Did David Beard open a door for a physical boxset for SMILEY/HONEY/FRIENDS/2020?  (Read 4009 times)
Don Malcolm
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« on: February 20, 2023, 09:43:34 AM »

In the new ESQ, David Beard's interviews dig into the timetable for Brian Wilson's first withdrawal (fall 1968); he examines what he calls Brian's "relationship" suite of works from a cluster of Brian's creative activity earlier in the year; AND he teases out some frustration from Alan Boyd and Mark Linett about how the copyright dump releases for the SMILEY SMILE/WILD HONEY/FRIENDS/20-20 were handled. That makes for a momentous issue, and (to me, at least) raises the question as to whether a more comprehensive, expansive and creative revisit of that material is in order while we wait for further archive releases from the 1970s.

The incredible wealth of material available across the four LPs and the sessions surrounding them is on display, but in physical releases that are hastier in conception and execution and in download-only incarnations that don't do the wealth of music on display (both from Brian and from the emerging creative ferment from the rest of the band). Beard's own construction of a "Brian relationship album" is the type of imaginative presentation that could form the basis for a special CD in a "grand box set" that more definitively examines the explosion of material that ensued from mid-1967 to early 1969. (David only focuses on 13-14 tracks that are mostly from the "sessions" material, but it's clear that other songs that made it to official release on the LPs are part of a particularized creative impulse driving Brian during this time--ending, perhaps, with the anti-climax of "Been Way Too Long/Can't Wait Too Long".)

In the interview, Alan suggests that a big set could be made from 15 Big Ones/Love You/Adult Child/New Album ("and even the early MIU sessions"). If handled with considerable curatorial finesse, it could indeed be fascinating--but it strikes me that we won't be seeing that until sometime in 2025. Mark's idea for a live box set from '73-'74 is something that could happen more quickly, but it is less reliant on curatorial interpretation, since no deep cuts/outtakes are part of the live material (with a very few exceptions, like Dennis' "River Song"). Given that, it seems like the timing is right to at least pick up on the cues that seem to have left in what David has chosen to write about, in a clustered but perhaps carefully indirect and distributed way, in this most interesting issue of ESQ. The "Band In Transition" story still needs to be told in a definitive way, and a box set that covers this twenty-month period is IMO the way to make sure the story gets told in the best possible way.
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 10:48:42 AM »

You have me sold on whatever gets released!
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2023, 01:39:04 PM »

I'm satisfied with the two cd Sunshine Tomorrow; wish they had done the same for Friends and 20/20.
I find the 15 BO/Love You stuff painful to listen to. Don't need any more of that.
A 73-75 live set is something I would love to see.
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 06:26:35 AM »

The live version of "River Song" with Blondie providing vocals would be sweet.  I want to say at least at one point they gave a live performance of "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)" with Carl providing the lead vocal, but I could be misremembering.  I think Billy Hinsche even performed "I'm Waiting For The Day" at one point as well.  And any of the joint concerts they did with Chicago would be welcome. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2023, 08:49:08 AM »

I know I’ve already gone on about this in other threads, but while I would have loved to have nice, lavish boxed sets (and/or “regular” physical releases) for the 68/69 stuff (and the rest of the ’67 stuff), I really don’t view that as a high priority right now.

The digital releases got the important job done; which was getting the material released and out there in high quality. In particular, digital drops for the live ’67 and ’68 material was the *perfect* venue for that material. I don’t have a strong desire for several more sets, which would surely clock in at several hundred dollars, just to get this stuff pressed on actual CDs.

While there will always be *more* archival stuff left on the cutting room floor that can be put on subsequent reissues, I think those sets did a pretty good job of getting a ton of the most important and interesting unreleased material from that era released.

What has *barely* been touched on in terms of archival releases is, at this stage, the post-1973 material. I absolutely think some sort of “Caribou to Criteria” set, or some sort of 1974-1980-ish set, as well as a live set focusing on ’73-ish material (and/or stuff later into the 70s), are all far preferably to *already* revisiting that 67-69 material.

I don’t think we have to wait until 2026/27 for like “Love You” material. I think it’s likely the formatting/prompt on the future studio sets would have to change a bit, with the knowledge that these things are going to appeal more and more specifically to diehard fans. They could, for instance, probably forego discs of the actual albums in a 74-80 type of boxed set and just focus on studio (and live) material.

I can’t speak to any specific person and their preferences, but I seem to run into some fans that really just don’t like and/or are unwilling to entertain post-60s material. And I think, at the end of the day, while there are a HUNDRED more archival ideas that could span their entire catalog, I think the 60s have been very well-served at this point.

I think a live ’73-ish set and then a 74-80 studio/live set would be the best way to go as some of the next releases (perhaps other specific things could be highlighted in individual releases, such as the ’75 “Beachago” tour stuff, or other holiday-related releases or other themed compilations, etc.). I think it would be great *eventually* to come back around to 60s material, perhaps revisiting those 67-69 archival digital-only sets and forming them around things like a new stereo remix of “Friends”, etc.

So no, I don’t think Beard’s ideas are particularly the way to go right now. I think the team currently working on this stuff have really knocked it out the park on multiple, consecutive releases. I have no interest in moving backwards and changing the plan/prompt on the reissue program at this point.
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2023, 09:05:47 AM »

During a BeachBoys Talk interview, Alan Boyd mentioned there's something that was found that would "blow people's minds". It's from Chuck Britz's collection. Whatever it is, I'd hope they are pushing for that to be released some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe it's something Smile-related, in which case they could release it with stereo mixes of Smile.
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2023, 11:27:03 AM »

Certainly, if there are some new discoveries that are important to get released, I’m all for finding a good way to do that. If they find some new material that has otherwise already seen its respective era covered with previous archival releases, I’d be all for finding a release to piggyback the new discoveries onto, and/or simply do a digital drop. I have to say, the 67/68/69 digital drops were nicely done, with artwork that matched the “Sunshine Tomorrow” format, with proper track notations on each track, etc. For that matter, most of the digital drops have been okay. Obviously, the quality of the material on all of them are worth noting. It was only the first few years’ worth that had the wonky homemade boot-quality cover art (e.g. the ’63 and ’64 stuff mainly). And even then, that “Keep an Eye On Summer” set had some great material on it.
 
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2023, 03:05:03 PM »

I know I’ve already gone on about this in other threads, but while I would have loved to have nice, lavish boxed sets (and/or “regular” physical releases) for the 68/69 stuff (and the rest of the ’67 stuff), I really don’t view that as a high priority right now.

The digital releases got the important job done; which was getting the material released and out there in high quality. In particular, digital drops for the live ’67 and ’68 material was the *perfect* venue for that material. I don’t have a strong desire for several more sets, which would surely clock in at several hundred dollars, just to get this stuff pressed on actual CDs.

While there will always be *more* archival stuff left on the cutting room floor that can be put on subsequent reissues, I think those sets did a pretty good job of getting a ton of the most important and interesting unreleased material from that era released.

What has *barely* been touched on in terms of archival releases is, at this stage, the post-1973 material. I absolutely think some sort of “Caribou to Criteria” set, or some sort of 1974-1980-ish set, as well as a live set focusing on ’73-ish material (and/or stuff later into the 70s), are all far preferably to *already* revisiting that 67-69 material.

I don’t think we have to wait until 2026/27 for like “Love You” material. I think it’s likely the formatting/prompt on the future studio sets would have to change a bit, with the knowledge that these things are going to appeal more and more specifically to diehard fans. They could, for instance, probably forego discs of the actual albums in a 74-80 type of boxed set and just focus on studio (and live) material.

I can’t speak to any specific person and their preferences, but I seem to run into some fans that really just don’t like and/or are unwilling to entertain post-60s material. And I think, at the end of the day, while there are a HUNDRED more archival ideas that could span their entire catalog, I think the 60s have been very well-served at this point.

I think a live ’73-ish set and then a 74-80 studio/live set would be the best way to go as some of the next releases (perhaps other specific things could be highlighted in individual releases, such as the ’75 “Beachago” tour stuff, or other holiday-related releases or other themed compilations, etc.). I think it would be great *eventually* to come back around to 60s material, perhaps revisiting those 67-69 archival digital-only sets and forming them around things like a new stereo remix of “Friends”, etc.

So no, I don’t think Beard’s ideas are particularly the way to go right now. I think the team currently working on this stuff have really knocked it out the park on multiple, consecutive releases. I have no interest in moving backwards and changing the plan/prompt on the reissue program at this point.


Not surprised by this response. What's interesting, though, is that David is extremely well-connected in the "inside BB" world and this issue of ESQ is one of the most probing looks at the pivotal year of 1968 from a vantage point at least partially inside that world, which suggests that there is some discussion going on about the fact that--despite your assertion that the FRIENDS/20-20 material was "perfectly" handled--there is an accelerating awareness that the transitional phase of the band (as noted by Alan Boyd in his interview, Brian "stepping back" in part due to set of agreements with his band mates AND a series of personal setbacks that changed the band dynamics) as documented in the LPs and sessions is an aspect of their history that deserves a more structured presentation as part of their overall legacy.

I think the regret expressed by Mark and Alan regarding these sets (and the '64 set) definitely opens a door for such a discussion within that world.

I'm not adverse to releases of more live material from the band, but this rapidly becomes a repetitive exercise in that even diehard fans aren't very likely to need more live versions of songs than, say, the number of fingers they have on one hand. Whatever Mark and Alan have in mind for such a release really needs to hit the highest possible cylinder to be viable beyond the most die-hard of the die-hards. As a product, I don't see as being complicated/ambitious to produce: I envision it as a two-CD set that doesn't require any special curation a la Howie.

The argument that a "lavish set" would necessarily be pricy is mostly a red herring--compare the prices of FEEL FLOWS and SAIL ON SAILOR and we can see that there was some kind of "greed factor" that entered into things on the latter project (almost certainly coming from the label). Whether Capitol will actually admit that they should take the hit for what will likely be a fairly significant sales differential is another matter, of course. We really have to hope that the sales for SOS haven't been so disappointing that it will kibosh any further ambitious archive releases.

I think returning to material that's already been vetted with a more unified, structured approach (possibly incorporating David's promising look at the arc of Brian's "domestic creativity") AND a coherent plan to keep the cost of the set at a credible price point is something that could be put together and marketed for a fall/Xmas '23 release. The timetable could then roll on to a live set in early summer '24, which would put Alan's 74-77 set in play for the fall/Xmas selling season in '24. Such a timetable keeps multiple irons in the fire and gives the archivists enough time to sift through the 74-77 material at a pace that will create the best possible presentation of that material.
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2023, 09:35:25 AM »

As I’ve said, I’m not opposed to seeing the 67/68/69 stuff revisited. But given the momentum of what’s been released in the last couple of years, I think going back to that stuff *right now* when it was already issued in 2017, 2018, and 2019 seems perplexing.

Obviously, if *nothing* is planned for 2023 otherwise, then I couldn’t really complain particularly about a physical reissue of that stuff. But I’m pretty certain other projects *are* planned, and the sense I have is that doing a Feel Flows/Sail on Sailor-style, full-push, boxed set repackaging/reordering of that 67/68/69 material is not something that fits either with what seems to be the momentum of the archival program, nor obviously what I would want as a fan/scholar.

If you think people complained about the price of “Sail on Sailor”, a set of almost all entirely *new* material, then be prepared for some complaints and accusations of “double dipping” if they go back to that 67/68/69 material (which for the sake of brevity I’ll refer to as simply “the ‘68” material here on out).

The “red herring” you describe that is the pricing of “Sail on Sailor”, well, I think the obvious has to be stated that it would be the very same label issuing that ’68 material. (As an aside, I think the pricing on the SOS set is more complicated than a simple greed factor, and a lot of it comes down to Amazon US’s willingness or lack thereof to discount the set, which in part involves Amazon’s own internal decision-making, pricing algorithms, etc., in addition to the label’s pricing strategies concerning vinyl sets, a large hunk of which are being purchased by people *without turntables*, meaning they’re paying for the lavish packaging). I’m not sure why there would be an assumption that all of a sudden we’d see huge price drops in re-doing the ’68 stuff, especially if the idea is to put *all* of that digital-only stuff on the sets, including the multiple ’67 and ’68 live shows. Either way, a largely or fully “double dip” situation might well dictate an even lower threshold for what people are willing to pay. We’re talking at least six discs even if we’re only covering the digital-only studio material, and if it isn’t just a big jewel case with discs, but actually has a book/box packaging component, we’re talking easily over $100.

I don’t want to get too far into the weeds on David Beard’s takes on this material and turn the whole thing into a debate on his deal. I think it’s always a good thing to plug BB releases via all outlets including ESQ. I don’t think Beard’s idea is particularly interesting or particularly feasible. Obviously, it’s certainly logistically *possible* as just about anything is.

Regarding the idea that the Friends/20/20 material was “perfectly” handled, I don’t think that’s what I said at all. I did say the digital drops for the *live* material from ’67 and ’68 were the perfect venue for those particular groups of recordings. Any compilation of multiple shows from the same tour, usually with very similar setlists from show to show, is always going to work better as a digital-only situation.

My previous comments on the digital releases of the 67-69 *studio* material have always been pretty measured. I think most hardcore fans like having physical releases. So in that sense, digital-only is not ideal. But it’s also clearly the only way that stuff was going to get out at that time. And I do think the actual *content* of those sets, both in terms of what’s on them and how they are sequenced, are pretty close to ideal (and pretty similar to the FF and SOS sets). Maybe if it was all in one big box it might be presented slightly differently, but I’m not sure how much quality material was *left off* outside of doing a “Sea of Tunes” style like 6-to-10 disc dump of the everything on the session tapes.

In other words, if you just took “Sunshine Tomorrow” and “Sunshine Tomorrow 2” (and then “Wake the World” and “I Can Hear Music”), and plugged each of them into a book-style packaging to match “Feel Flows” and “Sail on Sailor”, I’d say that would be pretty darn close to ideal. (Indeed, I’ve seen fan-made artwork done up to do exactly that). At that point, it would just be nitpicks of personal preference that are going to go on with *every* release. Given all of that, I don’t feel a strong desire to pause everything just to get those digital sets in physical form, and I haven’t seen any compelling ideas for insanely alternate ways to sequence/present the material that would justify reissuing it *right now*.

As for releasing live material (e.g. a 1973-ish set of several shows, or several shows’ worth of material), I have to disagree. First of all, if we’re talking digital, I see no reason to not issue *it all.* Obviously, with a physical set, it has to be vetted somewhat. But if we got *multiple* shows from ’67 and ’68, I don’t see a reason to not also see a similar treatment for 1973 (or some sort of 72-73 comp, or something generally along those lines; I’m not going to complain if they drop some ’74 stuff in there, etc.), and I think a strong argument can be made that, for many fans and spectators, 1973 is one of, if not *the*, peak periods for the live band, and they also saw fit to capture numerous shows on tape during this time period. If any “era” ever called for a set of live shows, it would be this era.

I of course bow to no one (save a few folks like c-man, Ian Rusten, etc.) in my interest in *all* live eras, and I’d love to see a career-spanning set as well. I don’t think we’ll ever see a 6-disc physical set covering the 1980 tour. But 1973 is very special I’d say. A live set covering that era makes total sense.  
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2023, 02:41:28 PM »

Clearly we will continue to "agree to disagree."  3D

The objective of SOS was, according to the accompanying publicity, to make the Beach Boys "FM" and show that they'd become a singular entity deserving of that ephemeral notion of "hipness" that seemed to elude them during the post-GV/pre-Endless Summer era. It was sort of a "rear-guard" war being re-fought fifty years later, as if re-fighting it would enhance the band's long-term legacy. It was supposed to build on the sales success of FEEL FLOWS, but it doesn't appear to have done that. "New fans" among youth is what was being chased, and while the jury is still out, the evidence suggests that the verdict will not be a positive one.

I don't buy the notion that Amazon controls the pricing of items in such a monolithic fashion--clearly there were opportunities to buy the set for less at other outlets, which I was I did (and I'm sure I'm not alone). More likely there was some assumption that "market momentum" had been achieved with FEEL FLOWS, and that folks could be brought along to a higher price point. I think all of the entities involved in that decision made a serious miscalculation. It's trendy to blame Amazon for just about everything these days, but I suspect there were a number of factors that resulted in an unfortunate in-company decision to "over-deluxe" the packaging and jack up the price.

I really don't think there's much "pause" involved in holding off from a live set in '23 to revisit and rectify what was clearly a hasty approach to material that has a lot more potential to reach the audience that the reissue team wanted to reach--not die-hard fans, but new, younger fans. There was a hope that a mixture of tracks that featured more rock-oriented sounds would prove to be galvanizing to establish that "FM" thing, but it doesn't appear to have jelled. In contrast, there's a narrative in the SMILEY-to-20/20 period--"a band in transition/great music in troubled times"--that still has a chance to play out for newer, younger fans who can be caught up in the roiling events of the time frame--with tons of interesting details that can be summarized by the folks who've done an outstanding job of gathering that info.

I very much like David's idea (the "relationship" music--though "Honey Get Home" might work better as a title: a lot of "love-longing" in that material): it focuses on what was happening to Brian and how things changed over the course of 1968. It's a key part of the "transition" and it deserves some kind of official presentation in order to combine the human interest that exists in the story AND the music that was still flowing at an impressive clip from Brian right up to the flashpoints that David and others in the latest ESQ identify: the sale of Sea of Tunes, the commercial disaster of FRIENDS, and the frustrating anti-climax of "Been Way Too Long." One might suggest that focusing on this is a bit too "exploitive" of Brian, I suppose, but since it is being discussed in such an upfront way in ESQ, we're can probably conclude that there is a climate of acceptance from "the inside" that would support such an approach to framing that story via a more structured release of the material.

BTW, I never suggested that the live material from '67-'68 be part of such a set. And I think your idea of an era-spanning live set is one of the best ideas for how to handle live material--I'd be all for relocating most of "live Sunshine" into such a product. I think one of the counterintuitive setbacks of SOS stemmed from trying to combine live and unreleased in a way that they hoped would be synergistic. I think that what emerged was a sense that all of that was padding--even though the Carnegie Hall gig is undeniably excellent. It might have sold a lot more copies as a standalone release at a lower price.

Perhaps we'll find out if there is anything to my surmise about behind-the-scenes rumblings. Given the general track record, of course, it's certainly possible that I'm just whistling in the dark and the (in)famous words of Jack Rieley will still remain intact as a pronouncement about the band's latter-day efforts to rekindle their 62-66 sales success. But I'm more cautious in my optimism about how well the 74-77 studio material will do with the non-die hard audience. If such a project gets done and it goes nowhere, all bets may be off.

A separate live set for the 73-75 band is clearly a no-brainer--though a 6-CD set for it is just as clearly overkill. But if there's a digital market for that material at reasonable prices for those who want it all, that's great. That would be the "perfect" use of downloading, etc. Perhaps the earlier idea of finding as many live versions of the widest possible range of tunes is a way to go, either for an extra disk in the live set, or as part of the approach for a career-spanning compendium of live highlights.

It's clear that a lot of focus was placed on discussing the pivots that occurred in 1968 in this most recent issue. It's one of the most focused editions of ESQ ever in that regard, even given the "theme" approach that has predominated of late. That may mean something, or it may not. But the sales for SOS relative to its positive reception in the media suggests to me that a careening mashup of the the 74-77 studio material has a much greater chance of receiving a high preponderance of "WTF?" reviews in the media, similar to what happened to CATP when they made the still-baffling decision of releasing it in a 2-fer with PET SOUNDS.

I also don't know how many new, younger fans will be up for the mish-mash that is 15 BIG ONES, the LP that was the perfect example of Jack's statement about the band and whose album cover art could be used in a "illustrated dictionary of phrases" next to the entry entitled "Pyrrhic victory." I suppose the historians could concoct some added detail to spice up the context behind the LP, but it says something that all of that backstage drama was (and still is) more interesting than the LP that emerged from it. I see it as a problematic project even for folks who are as savvy as Messrs. Boyd and Linett.
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2023, 09:56:15 PM »

Man, Boyd and I have literally been talking about a CARIBOU TO CRITERIA (I coined that phrase as a joke a while back -- but it works. . . ) set since the day I met him.
In all honesty, I'm pretty sure the project would most likely need to be a CARIBOU TO M.I.U. box -- and ALL that entails. Boyd has said that going into '78 might be stretching too far and I agree.

There's AMAZING '75 live material in the vault (that "I Can Hear Music" from MIC is proof) and don't forget the multi-track of Anaheim '76. That said, there's so much studio material that needs to be aired, would another live concert take up too much space? There's a TON of different material that could and should fit within the next "major" box -- (EDIT: I'm talking BEYOND the sorely-needed '73-era live set.)

It's all an embarrassment of riches that most bands could only pray for 15 years into their careers.
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2023, 09:09:12 AM »

Clearly we will continue to "agree to disagree."  3D

The objective of SOS was, according to the accompanying publicity, to make the Beach Boys "FM" and show that they'd become a singular entity deserving of that ephemeral notion of "hipness" that seemed to elude them during the post-GV/pre-Endless Summer era. It was sort of a "rear-guard" war being re-fought fifty years later, as if re-fighting it would enhance the band's long-term legacy. It was supposed to build on the sales success of FEEL FLOWS, but it doesn't appear to have done that. "New fans" among youth is what was being chased, and while the jury is still out, the evidence suggests that the verdict will not be a positive one.

I don't buy the notion that Amazon controls the pricing of items in such a monolithic fashion--clearly there were opportunities to buy the set for less at other outlets, which I was I did (and I'm sure I'm not alone). More likely there was some assumption that "market momentum" had been achieved with FEEL FLOWS, and that folks could be brought along to a higher price point. I think all of the entities involved in that decision made a serious miscalculation. It's trendy to blame Amazon for just about everything these days, but I suspect there were a number of factors that resulted in an unfortunate in-company decision to "over-deluxe" the packaging and jack up the price.

I really don't think there's much "pause" involved in holding off from a live set in '23 to revisit and rectify what was clearly a hasty approach to material that has a lot more potential to reach the audience that the reissue team wanted to reach--not die-hard fans, but new, younger fans. There was a hope that a mixture of tracks that featured more rock-oriented sounds would prove to be galvanizing to establish that "FM" thing, but it doesn't appear to have jelled. In contrast, there's a narrative in the SMILEY-to-20/20 period--"a band in transition/great music in troubled times"--that still has a chance to play out for newer, younger fans who can be caught up in the roiling events of the time frame--with tons of interesting details that can be summarized by the folks who've done an outstanding job of gathering that info.

I very much like David's idea (the "relationship" music--though "Honey Get Home" might work better as a title: a lot of "love-longing" in that material): it focuses on what was happening to Brian and how things changed over the course of 1968. It's a key part of the "transition" and it deserves some kind of official presentation in order to combine the human interest that exists in the story AND the music that was still flowing at an impressive clip from Brian right up to the flashpoints that David and others in the latest ESQ identify: the sale of Sea of Tunes, the commercial disaster of FRIENDS, and the frustrating anti-climax of "Been Way Too Long." One might suggest that focusing on this is a bit too "exploitive" of Brian, I suppose, but since it is being discussed in such an upfront way in ESQ, we're can probably conclude that there is a climate of acceptance from "the inside" that would support such an approach to framing that story via a more structured release of the material.

BTW, I never suggested that the live material from '67-'68 be part of such a set. And I think your idea of an era-spanning live set is one of the best ideas for how to handle live material--I'd be all for relocating most of "live Sunshine" into such a product. I think one of the counterintuitive setbacks of SOS stemmed from trying to combine live and unreleased in a way that they hoped would be synergistic. I think that what emerged was a sense that all of that was padding--even though the Carnegie Hall gig is undeniably excellent. It might have sold a lot more copies as a standalone release at a lower price.

Perhaps we'll find out if there is anything to my surmise about behind-the-scenes rumblings. Given the general track record, of course, it's certainly possible that I'm just whistling in the dark and the (in)famous words of Jack Rieley will still remain intact as a pronouncement about the band's latter-day efforts to rekindle their 62-66 sales success. But I'm more cautious in my optimism about how well the 74-77 studio material will do with the non-die hard audience. If such a project gets done and it goes nowhere, all bets may be off.

A separate live set for the 73-75 band is clearly a no-brainer--though a 6-CD set for it is just as clearly overkill. But if there's a digital market for that material at reasonable prices for those who want it all, that's great. That would be the "perfect" use of downloading, etc. Perhaps the earlier idea of finding as many live versions of the widest possible range of tunes is a way to go, either for an extra disk in the live set, or as part of the approach for a career-spanning compendium of live highlights.

It's clear that a lot of focus was placed on discussing the pivots that occurred in 1968 in this most recent issue. It's one of the most focused editions of ESQ ever in that regard, even given the "theme" approach that has predominated of late. That may mean something, or it may not. But the sales for SOS relative to its positive reception in the media suggests to me that a careening mashup of the the 74-77 studio material has a much greater chance of receiving a high preponderance of "WTF?" reviews in the media, similar to what happened to CATP when they made the still-baffling decision of releasing it in a 2-fer with PET SOUNDS.

I also don't know how many new, younger fans will be up for the mish-mash that is 15 BIG ONES, the LP that was the perfect example of Jack's statement about the band and whose album cover art could be used in a "illustrated dictionary of phrases" next to the entry entitled "Pyrrhic victory." I suppose the historians could concoct some added detail to spice up the context behind the LP, but it says something that all of that backstage drama was (and still is) more interesting than the LP that emerged from it. I see it as a problematic project even for folks who are as savvy as Messrs. Boyd and Linett.

I'll perhaps have more to say on a point by point basis, but I will say specifically that I don't think the "Relationship" themed compilation for '68 material is a particularly strong idea, and it doesn't really match up with the trajectory and momentum of where the reissue campaign is at. Even *if* the '68 material were revisited already in 2023 with a stronger push, I wouldn't go with that particular theming. That sort of themed playlist type of thing sounds better for the BB/BRI/Iconic social media channels to push via a Spotify playlist or something of that nature.

Also, I think as we get later into the band's career, we have to continue to balance out the "introducing the progressive lesser-known material to new, young fans" approach with the "putting stuff out for life-long, aging fans who have been waiting decades for the archives to be open, and who are continuing to literally die off." As we get later into the 70s (and 80s), a lot of that material (though not all, and Boyd and Howie know how to discern which is which) is going to have to be pushed primarily to hardcore fans. So, at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that I already at least EIGHT discs worth of 67-69 archival material released in pristine quality (and programmed/sequenced quite well I would say), so the priority for me would be 70s stuff. 1973-76 live material (which could be presented in myriad of ways across different releases in different formats), and 74-77/78 studio material (and then hopefully also getting into the Criteria/LA through probably the '85 album maybe?).

I think it's still tough to get Capitol/UMG to push multi-disc archival sets, so I wouldn't really want to waste that capital right now on re-pushing sets that already came out. I suspect Capitol/UMG would potentially feel similarly.
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2023, 09:15:28 AM »

During a BeachBoys Talk interview, Alan Boyd mentioned there's something that was found that would "blow people's minds". It's from Chuck Britz's collection. Whatever it is, I'd hope they are pushing for that to be released some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe it's something Smile-related, in which case they could release it with stereo mixes of Smile.

Sounds tantalizingly similar Adam Marsland's report of what turned out to be Wild Honey era Surf's Up.
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2023, 09:16:44 AM »

Man, Boyd and I have literally been talking about a CARIBOU TO CRITERIA (I coined that phrase as a joke a while back -- but it works. . . ) set since the day I met him.
In all honesty, I'm pretty sure the project would most likely need to be a CARIBOU TO M.I.U. box -- and ALL that entails. Boyd has said that going into '78 might be stretching too far and I agree.

There's AMAZING '75 live material in the vault (that "I Can Hear Music" from MIC is proof) and don't forget the multi-track of Anaheim '76. That said, there's so much studio material that needs to be aired, would another live concert take up too much space? There's a TON of different material that could and should fit within the next "major" box -- (EDIT: I'm talking BEYOND the sorely-needed '73-era live set.)

It's all an embarrassment of riches that most bands could only pray for 15 years into their careers.

Those live eras are all key (the bits and pieces from 73, 74, and 75 on the MIC set and elsewhere are all primo). I think they all need a release, whether separately or in a larger context.

I feel like the '73 stuff can kind of be a bit like (if not literally) an expanded, alternate "In Concert" album, and that could maybe even be part of the theming. As great as the '72 Carnegie stuff is, I think they got even tighter in '73 and I'd love to hear as much of that stuff from the vaults as we can. It's truly peak live Beach Boys. It's not like we're going to ask for or expect a multi-disc set for the 1987 tour.

'75 feels a bit different (partially literally because it's Dennis (and Bobby) drumming instead of Ricky), and that Beachago stuff (with or without the actual Chicago component) is a must to release.

And then the Anaheim '76 stuff fits in (whether literally or not) with concurrent studio stuff for 15BO and Love You.
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2023, 10:30:01 AM »

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but a live box set without any studio material whatsoever sounds like something I and many other fans would largely pass on. The ‘76 live stuff with Brian, however, would be great. But even then, I’d probably think it would be better as part of a ‘76-77 box set.
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2023, 12:14:15 PM »

I dunno, didn't the '73 "In Concert" album go gold? Obviously, archival sets don't hit #1, and live releases often tend to sell less than studio releases.

But in a world where we got like 37 full shows from 1967 and 1968, with very similar setlists from night to night, I think a set from circa 1973, their arguable peak on stage, would be warmly welcomed.

I doubt we're going to set like multiple all-live huge sets in succession. I think the FF/SOS format where live stuff is mixed in has worked well, and then there are specific cases where a full live set is warranted (e.g. 1973, the 1975 "Beachago" tour stuff, etc.)
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2023, 01:27:29 PM »

I truly hope we don't have to wait till 2026 for the next release.  I'm so impatient and crave even more BB material lol.  To quote the band Queen, "I want it all and I want it NOW!"
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2023, 07:33:57 PM »

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but a live box set without any studio material whatsoever sounds like something I and many other fans would largely pass on. The ‘76 live stuff with Brian, however, would be great. But even then, I’d probably think it would be better as part of a ‘76-77 box set.
What did Brian contribute to the live band in 1976? Any footage I've seen, he just sits there, hiding behind his piano.
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2023, 08:19:51 PM »

No chance of a reunion, Brian is finished touring, Mike and Bruce off doing cruises

We're all living for a Love you Box Set
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According to someone who would know.

Seriously, there was a Beach Boys Love You condom?!  Amazing.
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2023, 07:28:31 AM »

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but a live box set without any studio material whatsoever sounds like something I and many other fans would largely pass on. The ‘76 live stuff with Brian, however, would be great. But even then, I’d probably think it would be better as part of a ‘76-77 box set.
What did Brian contribute to the live band in 1976? Any footage I've seen, he just sits there, hiding behind his piano.

Not 100% sure. His contributions are probably patchy, but definitely not non-existent. I've seen footage where he plays bass, does vocals and in some cases leads, i.e. on Surfer Girl and Back Home. The track Back Home (Live / 1976) on Feel Flows is testament to this, even though his lead vocal is flown-in, unfortunately.
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2023, 11:25:38 PM »

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but a live box set without any studio material whatsoever sounds like something I and many other fans would largely pass on. The ‘76 live stuff with Brian, however, would be great. But even then, I’d probably think it would be better as part of a ‘76-77 box set.
What did Brian contribute to the live band in 1976? Any footage I've seen, he just sits there, hiding behind his piano.

Not 100% sure. His contributions are probably patchy, but definitely not non-existent. I've seen footage where he plays bass, does vocals and in some cases leads, i.e. on Surfer Girl and Back Home. The track Back Home (Live / 1976) on Feel Flows is testament to this, even though his lead vocal is flown-in, unfortunately.

I think those two were the only ones he played bass on in 1976, but I’ve read he played a ton of bass from late ‘77 to late ‘78.
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2023, 09:16:59 AM »

During a BeachBoys Talk interview, Alan Boyd mentioned there's something that was found that would "blow people's minds". It's from Chuck Britz's collection. Whatever it is, I'd hope they are pushing for that to be released some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe it's something Smile-related, in which case they could release it with stereo mixes of Smile.

The completed Heroes and Villains Part 1 and Part 2 single, which Chuck remembers as being finished and mixed?
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2023, 02:27:14 PM »

During a BeachBoys Talk interview, Alan Boyd mentioned there's something that was found that would "blow people's minds". It's from Chuck Britz's collection. Whatever it is, I'd hope they are pushing for that to be released some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe it's something Smile-related, in which case they could release it with stereo mixes of Smile.

The completed Heroes and Villains Part 1 and Part 2 single, which Chuck remembers as being finished and mixed?


Probably just a concert recording that has not been documented.  BUT I hope I’m wrong!
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