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Author Topic: What would you want on an expanded IN CONCERT?  (Read 2105 times)
hongkongcrowe
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« on: December 11, 2022, 06:02:36 AM »

If the next archival release is to be an expanded IN CONCERT, what would you want on it?  First off, I would like to see a 4 disc set that includes Blondie singing RIVER SONG,  a raucous SAIL ON SAILOR, HERE SHE COMES [it was played quite a bit in 72] , DO IT AGAIN [love the version from Carnegie Hall], COOL COOL WATER.  What's on your list?
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2022, 07:05:25 AM »

That's a good question. The Carnegie Hall show adds quite a bit that we didn't have before. For an In Concert special edition I would suggest besides the original album the first version that was submitted to the label. Then there would be room for further bosun tracks. "River Song", "Here she comes" and "Cool, cool Water" are very good choices. I would add some Dennis songs that he himself sang. During these years they did perform "Forever", "It's about Time", "Cuddle up", "Barbara", "I've got a Friend". But except for "Forever" and "It's about Time" I'm not sure if any of those were actually recorded.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 07:37:24 AM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2022, 07:33:01 AM »

There is no song the Beach Boys played in this era that I don't desperately wish I had in high quality! My fear is that if there were good sounding recordings of the Dennis rarities from this era, we would have gotten them by now, on this box or the last one. But here's hoping they decided to withhold something for the next one!

On another note, The Trader on the boxset from 1975 sounds absolutely incredible, which makes me wonder what goodies might have been recorded in that year!
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Jay
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2022, 09:20:19 AM »

Both Carnegie Hall shows uncut and unaltered, and a high quality recording of River Song for starters.
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TonyW
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2022, 02:56:42 PM »

For my money keep the In Concert to 3 discs. Disc 1: the In Concert album. Disc 2: The rejected single album. Disc 3: Key and noteworthy tracks, such as River Song, and great performances of tracks not included in Discs 1 & 2. Then release on-line four or more selected shows recorded during the "In Concert" recordings in '72 & '73. A good start would be be the Capitol Theatre, Passaic show(s) from 16 November '72. There were around 17 shows recorded as far as I can tell, so there is a wealth or material. Full show releases need to be edited as anyone who is familiar with the Carnegie boot will know its full of tuning and unnecessary monologue when the tuning takes place - we can do without more of that! Release a fifth show on vinyl for Record Store Day '23 so that the elitist completists out there have something to brag about  Smiley  I'll happily wait until the needle drops start circulating.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2022, 08:55:28 PM »

I only have the 2 disc Sail on Sailor, so don't know what I am missing from the bigger boxes; but I would want live versions of Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Surf's Up...anything they performed from the post-Party albums.
And of course the original Beach Boys In Concert remastered.
I can actually imagine THEM doing this if SOS sells well, because after 1973, there's not a lot of great new music coming from the Boys. Although I could certainly enjoy live sets from 1974/75.
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hongkongcrowe
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2022, 05:01:13 AM »

For my money keep the In Concert to 3 discs. Disc 1: the In Concert album. Disc 2: The rejected single album. Disc 3: Key and noteworthy tracks, such as River Song, and great performances of tracks not included in Discs 1 & 2. Then release on-line four or more selected shows recorded during the "In Concert" recordings in '72 & '73. A good start would be be the Capitol Theatre, Passaic show(s) from 16 November '72. There were around 17 shows recorded as far as I can tell, so there is a wealth or material. Full show releases need to be edited as anyone who is familiar with the Carnegie boot will know its full of tuning and unnecessary monologue when the tuning takes place - we can do without more of that! Release a fifth show on vinyl for Record Store Day '23 so that the elitist completists out there have something to brag about  Smiley  I'll happily wait until the needle drops start circulating.


Sign me up for this!  Great idea.

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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2022, 11:44:46 AM »

Can I say something I DONíT want? I know there is very little in the way of filmed shows, so please. No Ďbonusí DVD of clips with mis-matched vocals. Unless an actual show existsÖDonít bother trying to make one up.
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Tony S
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2022, 01:47:04 PM »

I'm also inclined to think if there is another big box set, it will likely and should focus on the live shows, from the early to mid 70s. All of the albums recorded after Holland were mostly EHHHHH....some worse. Don't think there would be a market for it, and not sure of the quality hat might exist there either.
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TonyW
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2022, 03:30:23 PM »

I'm also inclined to think if there is another big box set, it will likely and should focus on the live shows, from the early to mid 70s. All of the albums recorded after Holland were mostly EHHHHH....some worse. Don't think there would be a market for it, and not sure of the quality hat might exist there either.

That's an interesting thought, what if instead of featuring just '72 & '73 shows it was actually a comprehensive box set live anthology? I know I've constructed such a thing on my itunes and its a great listen spanning from '64 to '93. Needs an update know with the new live stuff on the FF & SOS boxes.
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2022, 12:50:31 AM »

I think maybe there are three more possibilities for big boxes, if Capitol is up for them. The first would be In Concert (1972-73, maybe even with 1974 and/or 1975 too?). The second is a Brianís Back box; I know Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have talked about wanting to do this (though I think one or both of them mentioned going as far as MIU; that would have to be a pretty big box, or have a lot of material cut from it, especially if they include(d) material from Adult/Child and/or the second Christmas album. The third would be a comprehensive live box, probably 1974/75/76-1993, and any other interesting things that might be in the vaults. I doubt this would happen, but Iíd love to get C50 live material on it too. For the remaining albums, depending on the market and amount of material, maybe they just limit it to expanded 1-CD or deluxe 2-CD versions?
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BJL
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2022, 06:51:36 AM »

I think maybe there are three more possibilities for big boxes, if Capitol is up for them. The first would be In Concert (1972-73, maybe even with 1974 and/or 1975 too?). The second is a Brianís Back box; I know Mark Linett and Alan Boyd have talked about wanting to do this (though I think one or both of them mentioned going as far as MIU; that would have to be a pretty big box, or have a lot of material cut from it, especially if they include(d) material from Adult/Child and/or the second Christmas album. The third would be a comprehensive live box, probably 1974/75/76-1993, and any other interesting things that might be in the vaults. I doubt this would happen, but Iíd love to get C50 live material on it too. For the remaining albums, depending on the market and amount of material, maybe they just limit it to expanded 1-CD or deluxe 2-CD versions?

A "Brian's back" era box is a necessity in my view, although I'm not sure how you'd market it. But the band recorded so much material in the late 70s. I do think, more than the last couple boxes, the right way to do it would be an extremely limited edition 12 disc version or whatever, and a box set boiled down to the essential - maybe a remixed Love You plus one disc of highlights? Or a digital only release? It's hard to say what would work best, and of course we don't know what there is to work with in terms of unreleased material. But it's such a strange and cool era, for those of us who love it.

Unless there's something I've missed, I'm not sure how interested I would be in the 77-93 part of a comprehensive live box... It would be great to have a well done issue of those 93 concerts, but I'm not sure how essential even that would be. And other than that, I feel like it was sort of all downhill from 75 or so, in terms of the live act. Not that they weren't great at times, but they clearly weren't driven in the same way. I like the Knebworth show, but the distance between the Carnegie show on Sail on Sailor in 72 and Knebworth 8 years later is pretty stark. But definitely the mid-70s deserves a live box of its own. And although the Blondie and Ricky era seems to have tragically escaped being filmed, somehow, there's got to be some good quality footage from the mid-70s, right?
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2022, 09:35:33 AM »

And although the Blondie and Ricky era seems to have tragically escaped being filmed, somehow, there's got to be some good quality footage from the mid-70s, right?


For the Blondie/Ricky era I have only these three dates on the Pro Shot Concerts list (which is not complete):


1972 - 6 - 3 London, England "Crystal Palace Garden Party"

1972 - 8 - 23 Boston, MA

1974 - 11 - 26 Los Angeles, CA "Rockin' New Years Eve"



Blondie had already left for the last one and it's just a couple of songs anyway, not a concert as such. Don't know if any of the other footage survives. You can find videos of the show in London on youtube, but the quality is obviously not great.
The beautiful footage in Endless Harmony unfortunately is 8mm video - possibly shot by Ed Roach - with no sound (and certainly not complete songs).

If there will be a DVD/BlueRay release of a concert I could imagine they will try to do the whole Brian's Back show that was used for the NBC special, I believe Anaheim Stadium in '76.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was oneÖ their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2022, 10:53:46 AM »

To me an "In Concert" box should dip into 1974, even though it's post-Blondie.  "Feel Flows" and "All This is That" weren't really in the rotation prior to the summer '74 tour but they're such key songs from the era.  I love the Nassau '74 boot
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2022, 04:42:13 PM »

I'd MUCH rather get studio material left in the vaults over live stuff any day.  I know that's not quite the subject here but just my opinion. 
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2022, 10:26:22 PM »

In addition to expanded vinyl and CD 50th Anniversary releases of the In Concert album, I'm looking forward to a digital release of every concert recorded for potential inclusion on the album, especially the Hollywood Palladium on April 20, 1973.


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HeyJude
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2022, 06:48:48 AM »

A bit of a sidebar but partially on topic: Some questions were brought up regarding pro-shot videos. BRI does have full pro-shot shows in their archive, but they are mostly from about 1977 and later. I recall talking to Alan Boyd about it years and years ago, and even in cases where they have full pro-shot videos available in good video quality, they don't always have a corresponding good audio source. In some cases where they have just a master video feed from the in-house jumbo video screen system, they weren't always concurrently recording the show on multi-track. So they'd have to rely on whatever audio track is present on the video, which would usually just be a mono or stereo live audio feed.

In some cases, such as the 1983 Seattle Kingdome show, the audio is really thin-sounding (almost like AM radio quality; you can hear this on the circulating copies), and thus the show is virtually unreleasable.

On top of this, you have performance and other "content" issues that would make a lot of shows difficult to release. The two January '77 Maryland shows exist on video (again from the in-house video feed), and I believe at least one if not both shows were also recorded by the band on multi-track. But does anybody picture the full uncut shows being released? Brian sounds really rough, infamously shouting some of his leads, and seems pissed off and wired (the also infamous smacking and yelling at his microphone).

Sadly, the most "releasable" pro-shot videos they have would probably be rather standard late 80s and 90s stuff. The 1977-mid 80s stuff is spotty based on who might have been wasted at the show, who sounded off, and just general performance issues.

Remember that both of the 1980 shows, Knebworth and Washington DC, not only had a good amount of overdubs, but also had huge chunks of the shows deleted before airing/release. That's about as clean and pro as that era can sound.

Obviously, if any of the many long-rumored pre-1976 in-house video feeds actually existed, that would potentially be a whole other deal.

But as far as later eras, while I'd LOVE as many full uncut shows from all eras as possible, some sort of compilation would probably make more sense. They could cherry pick stuff from the 70s, 80s, and 90s to represent the best (and most interesting) performances.

Also, they could and should release any of the many FULL shows they have from the 2012 reunion tour. Hollywood Bowl and Red Rocks were both shot in full in HD (and the Hollywood Bowl apparently in 3D!?!), and I suspect several other shows were captured in full as well (some degree of video shooting took place at the Royal Albert Hall, there was an in-house video for Wembley, and we know they shot that one show early in the tour that was used for that "Doin' It Again" doc, plus the show the used for the edited "Live in Concert" video surely exists uncut).
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2022, 01:23:13 AM »

A bit of a sidebar but partially on topic: Some questions were brought up regarding pro-shot videos. BRI does have full pro-shot shows in their archive, but they are mostly from about 1977 and later. I recall talking to Alan Boyd about it years and years ago, and even in cases where they have full pro-shot videos available in good video quality, they don't always have a corresponding good audio source.

Sadly, the most "releasable" pro-shot videos they have would probably be rather standard late 80s and 90s stuff. The 1977-mid 80s stuff is spotty based on who might have been wasted at the show, who sounded off, and just general performance issues.

Remember that both of the 1980 shows, Knebworth and Washington DC, not only had a good amount of overdubs, but also had huge chunks of the shows deleted before airing/release. That's about as clean and pro as that era can sound.

But as far as later eras, while I'd LOVE as many full uncut shows from all eras as possible, some sort of compilation would probably make more sense. They could cherry pick stuff from the 70s, 80s, and 90s to represent the best (and most interesting) performances.

Also, they could and should release any of the many FULL shows they have from the 2012 reunion tour. Hollywood Bowl and Red Rocks were both shot in full in HD (and the Hollywood Bowl apparently in 3D!?!), and I suspect several other shows were captured in full as well (some degree of video shooting took place at the Royal Albert Hall, there was an in-house video for Wembley, and we know they shot that one show early in the tour that was used for that "Doin' It Again" doc, plus the show the used for the edited "Live in Concert" video surely exists uncut).

HeyJude, do we know any more specific information regarding the overdubs/extent they were used on the two 1980 shows? Iíve always been curious of that; I know there were details about Darliní from Knebworth on the Endless Harmony soundtrack.

I didnít realize they filmed that many shows in 2012. Now I want it even more!!  Grin (Especially because I wasnít fortunate enough to see them reunited.  Undecided)
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HeyJude
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2022, 06:37:25 AM »

A bit of a sidebar but partially on topic: Some questions were brought up regarding pro-shot videos. BRI does have full pro-shot shows in their archive, but they are mostly from about 1977 and later. I recall talking to Alan Boyd about it years and years ago, and even in cases where they have full pro-shot videos available in good video quality, they don't always have a corresponding good audio source.

Sadly, the most "releasable" pro-shot videos they have would probably be rather standard late 80s and 90s stuff. The 1977-mid 80s stuff is spotty based on who might have been wasted at the show, who sounded off, and just general performance issues.

Remember that both of the 1980 shows, Knebworth and Washington DC, not only had a good amount of overdubs, but also had huge chunks of the shows deleted before airing/release. That's about as clean and pro as that era can sound.

But as far as later eras, while I'd LOVE as many full uncut shows from all eras as possible, some sort of compilation would probably make more sense. They could cherry pick stuff from the 70s, 80s, and 90s to represent the best (and most interesting) performances.

Also, they could and should release any of the many FULL shows they have from the 2012 reunion tour. Hollywood Bowl and Red Rocks were both shot in full in HD (and the Hollywood Bowl apparently in 3D!?!), and I suspect several other shows were captured in full as well (some degree of video shooting took place at the Royal Albert Hall, there was an in-house video for Wembley, and we know they shot that one show early in the tour that was used for that "Doin' It Again" doc, plus the show the used for the edited "Live in Concert" video surely exists uncut).

HeyJude, do we know any more specific information regarding the overdubs/extent they were used on the two 1980 shows? Iíve always been curious of that; I know there were details about Darliní from Knebworth on the Endless Harmony soundtrack.

I didnít realize they filmed that many shows in 2012. Now I want it even more!!  Grin (Especially because I wasnít fortunate enough to see them reunited.  Undecided)

I don't have any actual session data, but in the case of Knebworth and Washington DC, we have live radio/soundboard recordings to compare to the eventual released product, and that provides a pretty good insight into the extent of the overdubs.

As I recall, supposedly between the 1998 and 2000 versions of "Endless Harmony Soundtrack", one version of "Darlin'" has the post-production overdubs, and the other doesn't. I'm pretty sure the eventual 2002/2003 CD/DVD release of Knebworth uses some of the overdubs.

In the case of both 1980 shows, I'd say both shows were noticeably overdubbed, but not ridiculously so. In both cases, it's not like they re-did stuff from scratch or flew a bunch of stuff in. Both shows as released have needed "sweetening", but are still "live" recordings for the most part.

For Washington DC, the main thing you can hear is an electric piano/keyboard overdub throughout most of the show (if you listen to the Japanese DVD of the show, you can literally hear it come jutting in near the end of "God Only Knows"). In at least one case, the vocal intro to "School Days", they re-recorded the vocals. But I'll say, beyond that, it sounds like most everything else is from the show, and they simply muted/mixed out extraneous stuff that sounded "bad." All of the lead and backing vocals other than that "School Days" intro sound like the original live vocals, just mixed more "sympathetically" let's say. Same with the instruments; all live barring the keyboard overdub, with things muted or mixed low as needed. They even kept Carl's biffed line on "Good Timin'." You can tell they weeded out the stuff that sounded more problematic (including a Brian vocal on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" that literally sounds like Brian's batteries winding down and going dead), an interesting but ad hoc performance of "Merry Minuet", a nice enough performance of "Lady Lynda" where Al gets a frog in his throat on one line, and so on.

For Knebworth, it's a little more difficult to tell. It sounds like some keyboard and guitar overdubs were likely, but not excessive. But again, most of the vocals sound live, and the basic backing tracks all sound original as well. I know some have contended Mike's lead vocal track was autotuned for the 2002/2003 release, but I'm not so sure on that. Mike's vocal in this era was sometimes given a bit of a flanger/phase kind of effect in the live mix, and I wonder if that's part of what's being heard. They also did a bit of editing, including chopping a few bars out of "Keepin' the Summer Alive" where Carl broke a string during his solo. Also of course, many songs were cut, and this was down both to performance issues ("Santa Ana Winds" was apparently rather impromptu), and the edict that this it needed to clock in at about 70 minutes for later feeding to PBS and a DVD release and whatnot.

It's interesting to note that Bruce, as the de facto "Producer" of both of these shows, supposedly told the team when approached about Knebworth being released in 2002 that they should instead release Washington DC, as to Bruce that felt more like a "finished" project whereas he seemed to view Knebworth as unfinished/shelved/abandoned. This does make some sense, as Washington DC was more or less "finished and released" via airing on HBO back in 1980. Knebworth was never released (although, they did use a number of songs from Knebworth in the somewhat obscure 1981 "20th Anniversary Special" that was syndicated on US TV, including "Good Timin'", which was not included in the later CD/DVD releases).
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 06:42:25 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2022, 01:05:47 PM »

I'm always surprised at what they can do with audio/video technology these days, which then has me asking, why can't they use some high tech digital wizardry on the 1983 Kingdome show?
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