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Author Topic: Sail On Sailor box set  (Read 52245 times)
Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #150 on: December 02, 2022, 06:03:48 AM »

Just listened so far to the Sail On Sailor writing session. Love the return of Brian's scrappy rhythm and blues voice. His speaking voice is heading towards how it will sound on the spoken intro of the 1975 In the Back Of My Mind.
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« Reply #151 on: December 02, 2022, 06:05:15 AM »

The Carnegie Hall concert is the best live BB release. Full stop. What a show.
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« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2022, 07:05:43 AM »

Quote
Desper has posted several times that he has the track with a Carl lead vocal. Then said he didn’t
He deleted “.” all his posts claiming that he had a cassette copy of Carl singing the lead on SOS.

So I promise I'm not making this up, but Stephen Desper played what I thought was an acetate over the phone for me in January of 2014.

You can see in my post history that I asked him some questions, he offered to answer them over the phone. We had a long conversation and I mentioned the lost take. He said he had it, I told him how it was a holy grail, he told me to call back a few days later. By then he had found it and played it over the phone.

Like I said, I thought he said it was an acetate, but that was during the first conversation when he first told me he had it, so it's possible he just initially misremembered the format, but you could hear it was relatively low quality.

I really wish I would have recorded it, but didn't even think to at the time, although my wife did come in and hear it. I'm convinced it's Carl, best I can describe it was it sounded like he was sitting on a stool in the corner of a country bar, surprisingly twangy and laid back.

Again, I'm just someone on the internet, so feel free to be skeptical. I only came back here to see if it had made the box and was surprised to see it still hadn't at least been privately passed around given what I thought was Stephen's understanding of its significance.
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« Reply #153 on: December 02, 2022, 09:24:00 AM »

I ordered the 6 disc set this morning. Can't wait for it to arrive.
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« Reply #154 on: December 02, 2022, 09:43:07 AM »

Amazing stuff across the board. What a time to live in, to get sets like this.

I've been listening over the last 24 hours, and there's so much cool stuff buried in every corner of these tracks.

I'm all for this set being available in all the different configurations, but really, you gotta get the full deal with all the 105 tracks people. If you can't afford to buy it (and I'm truly aware these days that's a real possibility for a lot of us), still listen to this in all the places you can listen to all of the tracks.

It's all good. Carl with the strings on "Only With You." All those awesome, weird buried backing vocals on "Funky Pretty" and numerous other songs. The live stuff of course.

The early versions of what would later turn into "Lazy Lizzie" and "Walkin' the Line" and "Chain Reaction of Love", and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Hearing Al begin the genesis of "All This Is That."

Blondie and Ricky adding great stuff to the vocals.

Hearing how Brian *is* still there on stuff.

The "Sail on Sailor" work tape is obviously huge, and the only bad thing I can say about it is that, as much as we'd love to hear a Carl vocal on "Sail on Sailor", this tape proves a *Brian lead vocal* would have been just as amazing and makes me wish it existed.

So much stuff on this set truly gets even more to the heart of this weird but amazing time where they really were smack right in between the late 60s and the post-Brian's Back 1975/76/77 era.
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« Reply #155 on: December 02, 2022, 10:38:26 AM »

Two thoughts so far:
1. Nice version by Al of Tell Laura I Love Her on The Road Not Taken. Also nice version of that song by Bob Dylan on Hurricane.
2. They should have released the version of Make It Good without strings on Disc 1 on CATP.
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« Reply #156 on: December 02, 2022, 11:17:06 AM »

I'm enjoying what I've heard so far. I headed right for the more Brian-centric tracks, but that's where my interests are and a lot of these tracks are opening up a window to hear what he was doing at this time. He was definitely laying down some of his trademark quirky musical ideas and arrangements, which goes against (yet again) the previous history told that he didn't do much of anything during this time. The guy was still working and cranking out those wonderfully bizarre ideas. A lot of great ideas, and also surprising to hear the layers pulled back a bit to hear more than a few examples of his "Smile era" sounds coming out on these tracks, especially a prominent picked bass with slap echo sound that is more 1966 than 1970's. I liked hearing that.

Just one comment on the SOS demo: We get to hear what sounded like a hit right off the bat. It needed some polishing and some shaping, but for me as a musician it's always a treat to hear the earliest sparks of greatness, when there is something great bursting through the most simple ideas by way of these rambling demo sessions. Kudos too, in retrospect, to Van Dyke who also recognized something great in that rambling tape with all kinds of stream-of-consciousness lyrics and when the label wanted a hit, he had that tape for them and what came out of it was a true classic, perhaps the last truly great, new original Beach Boys song to be released and embraced by fans. What an amazing track.

And listening through the bits and pieces, it's proof yet again that Ricky and Blondie added a lot of rock and roll feel and attitude in their musicianship to the band's sound. And they needed that at this time. I hope this set of music sheds more light on Ricky and Blondie and just how good they were as musicians and as band members trying to fill an impossible void in the band.

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« Reply #157 on: December 02, 2022, 11:36:56 AM »

Yep, I think later narratives led a lot of folks to wonder "how much" Brian "really" contributed to the composition of "Sail on Sailor", and you can hear on that tape that the basis is pretty much all there. Obviously, a ton of lyrical changes took place later on. But if anybody ever doubted it before, "Sail on Sailor" is as much or more a "Brian Wilson song" as anybody else. And again, I think his voice sounds really good on this too. 1971/72/73 Brian may have been the best "version" of Brian to sing that particular song had he tackled it. I'm sure Carl's lead would have been great, and Blondie's is obviously.

The '75 live stuff sounds good, just as the '75 "I Can Hear Music" sounded great on the MIC set. I hadn't really directly previously looked at the track listing on this thing and pieced together that "1975" means Dennis (probably) drumming on "The Trader", and Billy singing "Sail on Sailor." Great tribute to Billy to give him one of the *very rare* instances of a backing band member getting a lead vocal on an official Beach Boys release.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 11:37:44 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #158 on: December 02, 2022, 12:10:47 PM »

The Beach Boys' 'Sail On Sailor' Reframes Two Obscure 1970s Albums. Why Were They Obscure In The First Place?


https://www.grammy.com/news/the-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-boxed-set-brian-wilson-carl-mike-love?fbclid=IwAR3XJPJxX0E4MxGR9qstQ8Ezt5uydEcyOmYnb1vZW8Rlxz7OSEcTIBqAPz4  


EDIT:

I like this visual effect very much they put on the new videos:


The Beach Boys - Only With You (Visualizer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqbWut3VG4
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 12:29:52 PM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #159 on: December 02, 2022, 01:18:37 PM »

Man, I feel bad for fans that just like shut their ears off after 1969 or 1971 or whatever.

I get it, some fans' favorite is "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" and they don't like "Here She Comes", but people, listen to the alternate mixes of "Cuddle Up" or "The Trader", and a bunch of others.

I mean, I think those that ignore the Blondie/Ricky material are missing some good stuff, but even if you ONLY like "Friends" or "Sunflower"-sounding stuff, there's STILL great material here.
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« Reply #160 on: December 02, 2022, 02:25:09 PM »

What I love about helping compile and create these sets is that we can take this music out of time, separate it from the concept of the album and reposition it into the ERA. "We" don't necessarily need it -- but the new converts need and use it for context. To many, this is how they're being introduced to this music -- Feel Flows did that perfectly. Now, maybe some new/younger fans can't tell the difference these days between what's Sunflower and what's Surf's Up -- but is that the WORST thing? Them hearing it and sharing it and discussing it is the BEST thing.

This is all an outgrowth of the influx of new "blood" from the SMiLE fan base (huge tip of the hat to Darian -- we're really where we're at today because of him and Leaf.) 18 years on, these sets give us a chance to reposition the camera in a way that -- I feel -- illuminates some tracks in a more direct and succinct way. I was insistent early on that the Dennis tracks from CATP should be stripped down to their bare essence, for the basic reason that I'm pretty confident that they'll get TV and film placements with the more natural mix.

That's how this stuff lives on and grows beyond us loving it and passing it along single file to friends and family. I think the fact that this stuff was NOT played in rotation next to "China Grove" and Skynyrd will ultimately be its saving grace. I think this stuff is poised to be devoured NOW.

That said, would've loved to have fit the POOPS version of "Sea Cruise" on to this one. . .

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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #161 on: December 02, 2022, 02:34:54 PM »

Howie, I am of the opinion that Dennis's instrumental Mexico is absolutely perfect for a movie or TV show.
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« Reply #162 on: December 02, 2022, 02:47:50 PM »

Joel -- I completely agree.

When Stebbins, Matt Casey and I did the DW BBC doc, Matt overlaid "Mexico" over the tales of Dennis' final days and it was HEAVY.
I had a screening at my place for a few close friends and both David Marks and Blondie were there. Needless to say, everyone was pretty emotional.
Not that it needed that song on top of it -- but man, it underscored all the pain and hopelessness of the situation.
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« Reply #163 on: December 02, 2022, 03:01:13 PM »

Man, “Rooftop Harry.” Where the heck did that come from? And it’s a precursor, at least in a few melodic phrases, to “From There and Back Again,” on TWGMTR.
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« Reply #164 on: December 02, 2022, 04:01:32 PM »

The Grammy.com story link without Facebook's nefarious tracking:
https://www.grammy.com/news/the-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-boxed-set-brian-wilson-carl-mike-love
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« Reply #165 on: December 02, 2022, 04:07:46 PM »



The biggest revelatory moment was realizing how much of Holland had Brian on backups. I think Sail On Sailor, Steamboat and Leaving This Town are the only ones he’s not present on.

He's singing on Funky Pretty, Mt Vernon, first half of The Trader (his vocal arrangement) and the beginning of California (in the "spend" as well as his lead), but none of the other songs.

Hmm .. I could’ve sworn I heard him in the backups of Only With You. I hear him elsewhere on California too in the backup/track mix , unless those were excised from the released version.
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« Reply #166 on: December 02, 2022, 04:33:04 PM »

What I love about helping compile and create these sets is that we can take this music out of time, separate it from the concept of the album and reposition it into the ERA. "We" don't necessarily need it -- but the new converts need and use it for context. To many, this is how they're being introduced to this music -- Feel Flows did that perfectly. Now, maybe some new/younger fans can't tell the difference these days between what's Sunflower and what's Surf's Up -- but is that the WORST thing? Them hearing it and sharing it and discussing it is the BEST thing.

This is all an outgrowth of the influx of new "blood" from the SMiLE fan base (huge tip of the hat to Darian -- we're really where we're at today because of him and Leaf.) 18 years on, these sets give us a chance to reposition the camera in a way that -- I feel -- illuminates some tracks in a more direct and succinct way. I was insistent early on that the Dennis tracks from CATP should be stripped down to their bare essence, for the basic reason that I'm pretty confident that they'll get TV and film placements with the more natural mix.

That's how this stuff lives on and grows beyond us loving it and passing it along single file to friends and family. I think the fact that this stuff was NOT played in rotation next to "China Grove" and Skynyrd will ultimately be its saving grace. I think this stuff is poised to be devoured NOW.

That said, would've loved to have fit the POOPS version of "Sea Cruise" on to this one. . .



I think song placement is the key to spreading the joys of this music to new ears, hands down. It's the way of the world right now. If a song gets placed in the right place, for lack of a better term, it will get more exposure than the record business in general has been able to deliver in 15 years. There should be a concerted effort to target TikTok - I'm not a fan of the platform but that's where old songs find new ears and new life. I can't tell you how many older songs have thrived again with young listeners (under 20) thanks to getting placed in a TikTok meme or something that went viral. The challenge is making it feel organic rather than marketed or forced.

I think Netflix has helped deliver the goods for the band's music perhaps more than any outlet in the past year or two. Obviously Stranger Things gave "California Dreamin" a massive boost...I mean, who was downloading that cover track prior to that show featuring it? Hardly anyone. Now it's among the top BB's tracks in terms of downloads and streams. I posted a topic about another Netflix show "Dead To Me" using the Pet Sounds title instrumental in a penultimate episode, and it got one reply. I hope that exposure translated better on the charts than it did in discussion, and the show also featured "Don't Worry Baby" in episode #1, and featured a large poster of the band in the set design in multiple scenes. So it's getting out there.

It's all about spreading the music to new ears at this point. I could care less about some so-called "fans" kvetching about EQ, mixes, and calling for boycotts. Who cares. If people out there who don't know the Beach Boys were making music like they did in 1970-1973, if they didn't know how diverse and enjoyable their live setlists from that era were, if they didn't know Blondie and Ricky and their contributions, if they didn't know the Pet Sounds instrumental as just heard on Netflix was from the same band who did Kokomo and Surfin USA, that's a good thing. The exposure is spreading with these outlets that are not record shops and record labels.

And they're not competing with rigged algorithms and bots creating artificial view counts as happens with YouTube and other digital platforms.

I hope this music spreads as wide as possible, and above all that people find enjoyment in something new to their ears and perceptions. The entire business of marketing music has changed, and I hope those changes are recognized and tried in terms of marketing. It would be as basic as Sail On Sailor getting into a viral TikTok meme, and it all flows from there.

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« Reply #167 on: December 02, 2022, 04:47:02 PM »

Man, “Rooftop Harry.” Where the heck did that come from? And it’s a precursor, at least in a few melodic phrases, to “From There and Back Again,” on TWGMTR.

One of the highlights so far, absolutely. People who wanted to hear what Brian Wilson unfiltered and unfettered in a studio would sound like, this is one of the tracks to hear!

I'm really getting into "Body Talk (Grease Job)" too. That is a really funky groove, and just in its instrumental state alone they could have clipped 30 seconds of it to use as title music for a TV show from that era, or a retro TV or movie from today set in the 70's. I can't explain it but it sounds like it could have fit on a show like What's Happenin'. And it still could.

Really cool music.
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« Reply #168 on: December 02, 2022, 05:31:14 PM »

Whoa. This set is unbelievable. Above expectations... and expectations were *very* high!!

I have so many thoughts, and I'm not even close to processing it all! But just a few things that stand out to me so far.

Al's Road Not Taken demo is pretty special to my ears. Hearing it followed by the a cappella All This is That is spectacular.

I always sort of suspected Make it Good and Cuddle Up would have been better without the strings... Not that I don't get what Dennis was going for, but man was I right. These songs really shine anew, especially Make it Good!

The Carnegie Hall show is just ... so good. So good. The band is on fire, the sound is impeccable, the energy amazing. Best live recordings of the band I've heard. Better than the In Concert album. I don't know why I was ready to be disappointed by this (maybe because we already had so many of the rarer tracks from this tour on other releases), but the sum really is greater than the parts. Also, they did such a good job on the mix. Not too rough, not too cleaned up, just right in that sweet spot of making you feel like you're in the audience!

Spark in the Dark, Rooftop Harry, Body Talk, and Gimme Some Lovin are, in my view, more of a revelation than the unreleased Brian songs on the last couple of boxed sets, because they fill out the context for the Brian compositions on So Tough and Holland. Adding these four tracks to Marcella, Mess of Help, and Funky Pretty, really shows that Brian had an idea of a new kind of musical direction to take the band. It is wild to imagine where Brian might have taken these ideas if he were still able / willing / capable / desired to / allowed to / or whatever the situation was - to pursue this direction and take the lead on a Beach Boys record in the early 70s.

As someone else already mentioned, Brian wrote everything that mattered of Sail on Sailor himself; they just needed the right verse lyrics, which obviously they eventually got to through some trial and error.

The Holland tracks / backing vocals are so incredibly rich and detailed. They represent, in my view, a band undeniably firing on all cylinders. Any narrative that posits Holland as a sort of "last gasp" just doesn't hold up anymore. No one is gasping here. The band has obviously been building towards this moment through tons of hard work and creativity, and seeing the era laid out as a whole makes that so clear. In Holland, the band (under Carl's guiding hand, I presume) integrated the divergent strengths Dennis, Mike, Al, Blondie, Ricky, Carl, and Brian had brought to the table on So Tough into a coherent sound and approach, which is a spectacular accomplishment.

One last thought, for now:

I think that our culture has finally gotten away from the stranglehold the boomer generation had on the history of rock and pop. This has had some dramatic effects. Disco, which I was somehow taught to despise as a classic-rock child of the 90s, is now rightly seen as a path-breaking genre with a far more lasting impact than hard rock. And bands like the Beach Boys are finally coming out of the shadow of how they intersected with popular taste and being seen as artists defined by how they approached their music, rather than by how audiences received it.

This phenomenon is not limited to the Beach Boys. Paul McCartney's solo work has increasingly come out of the shadow of the Beatles career. The hyper-critical response to RAM in the 1970s looks downright bizarre from the vantage of 2022. Similarly, the traditional narrative I was sold on Dylan's career also doesn't make sense anymore. The idea that Dylan had a spectacular flowering of creativity in the mid-60s, then retreated, only emerging with "last gasp" albums Blood on the Tracks and Desire, is, to those of us who didn't live through it, divorced from reality. Rather, Dylan looks like an artist who continually evolved from 1962 to 1976, putting out incredible album after incredible album as he pursued new styles and interests.

No one cares how many people bought Carl and the Passions, So Tough anymore. It mattered then, it doesn't matter now. The series of boxed sets that have come out since the Smile Sessions in 2011 demonstrate unequivocally that the Beach Boys were vital, important, living, evolving artists from 1963 to 1973, a single astonishing outburst of creative energy that did not relent until the mid-70s.
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« Reply #169 on: December 02, 2022, 08:42:32 PM »

Quote

I think that our culture has finally gotten away from the stranglehold the boomer generation had on the history of rock and pop. This has had some dramatic effects. Disco, which I was somehow taught to despise as a classic-rock child of the 90s, is now rightly seen as a path-breaking genre with a far more lasting impact than hard rock. And bands like the Beach Boys are finally coming out of the shadow of how they intersected with popular taste and being seen as artists defined by how they approached their music, rather than by how audiences received it.

Bingo…hindsight really is 20/20 (and So Tough, and Holland, and…). A lot of artists unfairly derided as square have found a new life with Gen Z. Growing up I was made fun of for being a Billy Joel fan, for instance. He’s another artist popular with the younger set. Those who think stuff like this due to stuff like TikTok and Stranger Things (not referring to you GF…I see this a lot and you reminded me of it!) are only partially correct… this is the first generation that has an appreciation of what came before. My generation (Gen X) wouldn’t mark out if we heard an older song on a tv show or movie! If it wasn’t new, it was lame! One of the side effects of it being easy to distribute music these days is that people are generally more educated musically on a informal basis… if someone wants to learn music theory, instead of going to college and hearing a dry course, bring on Rick Beato!  There’s a far greater appreciation of music now , regardless of what grandpa and grandma are saying on the other board.

The funny this is… those pop culture moments are a great introduction…but notice how the newer fans of things end up gravitating towards other things? Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams went viral…but two years on, “Everywhere” is getting hyped. I found out Christine McVie died when my daughter texted me…they were talking about it in her school. Kate Bush was already popular with the younger set before Stranger Things. I can usually tell now when someone from the past is about to get popular again .

As a  side note, this is why A&R reps being too much older than the artists is a horrible idea on this day, but I digress.
 

This also explains why a certain subset of “fans” are acting like complete douche waffles and making personal attacks on those who worked so hard to bring this to the fans 😒
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« Reply #170 on: December 02, 2022, 09:00:54 PM »

Can we also acknowledge, thanks to the a capella Marcella, that it WAS Brian in the tag singing the high-ish “Marcella heyyyy” and NOT Jack (who did a small “Hey Marcella” in a lower voice while Brian was singing)?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=b399XCqDbcY&feature=share

2:39 is Brian, Jack comes in at 2:42

*drops mic*
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« Reply #171 on: December 02, 2022, 09:07:30 PM »

Billy -- as Brian told me re: "Marcella": "One of my favorites, yeah. Carl did a great job, he was really good. 'Marcella,' y'know, I'm gonna tell ya, I was having mental difficulties during that time and I didn't even know if the guys got in the studio and recorded 'Marcella' without me on it! So, I said, 'I wanna be on it!' So I overdubbed my voice on it."
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« Reply #172 on: December 03, 2022, 03:22:39 AM »

Jumping Jack Flash…..WHOA! 👍


Yeah. If anyone ever asks again why the Beach Boys would cover that song.... that's why!




Joel -- I completely agree.

When Stebbins, Matt Casey and I did the DW BBC doc, Matt overlaid "Mexico" over the tales of Dennis' final days and it was HEAVY.
I had a screening at my place for a few close friends and both David Marks and Blondie were there. Needless to say, everyone was pretty emotional.
Not that it needed that song on top of it -- but man, it underscored all the pain and hopelessness of the situation.



Some of Dennis' songs actually have great potential for being used in movie/TV series etc. "My Love lives on" could be played during a series finale (of course depending on the story). It probably could even be used as a motif during the actual series. Imagine just parts of the song being played and the whole song only gets heared at the climax of the series.

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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
WillJC
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« Reply #173 on: December 03, 2022, 04:04:56 AM »

Can we also acknowledge, thanks to the a capella Marcella, that it WAS Brian in the tag singing the high-ish “Marcella heyyyy” and NOT Jack (who did a small “Hey Marcella” in a lower voice while Brian was singing)?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=b399XCqDbcY&feature=share

2:39 is Brian, Jack comes in at 2:42

*drops mic*

Brian's part was completely absent from the original mix though, sadly. It is Carl singing "Marcella hey" on an Eb while Jack harmonizes "hey Marcella" beneath - the console strip even marks "Carl and Jack" for that track. Brian's over on the right soon after singing a squeaky little "ooh, I need ya, deh-deh" on G and improvising other lines, and doubling his elfish "deh-deh" on another track later. Exactly the kind of thing he described to Howie where he just plugged in an extra part on his own after the others had been in. We're blessed with a lot of new Brian elf voice moments on this release.

This is one song where I think the new mixes really bring out the 'Beach Boysness' that it was missing - the pinball machine vibes in the chorus, horns, growly edge to the Moog bass, Wurli proto-Bread riff, more audible pounding piano, and having Brian's voice on the end add a ton of life to the track. Hearing all this, it sounds as if Carl consciously wanted to veer away from the eccentric ideas to more conventional rock territory in the mixdown, but the arrangement just wasn't built to support that kind of thing with enough oomf. It's better off being spooky and weird.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 04:11:01 AM by WillJC » Logged
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« Reply #174 on: December 03, 2022, 04:27:28 AM »

BTW Mike & Bruce will appear at Carnegie Hall on Monday.


‘It's heart music and we need it in this world’: John Stamos on Beach Boys concert


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyzkZKjQw08



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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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