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Author Topic: SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss  (Read 14984 times)
Galaxy Liz
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« on: July 19, 2022, 03:56:16 AM »

It seems to me from reading the track list, as recently discussed in the Look Listen thread, and from all the bootleg stuff we accumulated over the years from the original album, that all that could be left to do was some polishing.  The covers were printed - you'd think that would be a pretty late stage item.

I know you're going to shoot me down in flames but I'd like everyone's opinions and some serious reasons what wasn't ready.  They always say the sequencing but clearly from the Look Listen list that was sorted.  Even if they hadn't decided which link track went where, that's not a long job - they'd recorded lots of stuff.
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BJL
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2022, 06:55:04 AM »

I mean, yes and no. I strongly agree that the album was close enough to finished that it’s quite possible to *imagine* what a finished album might have sounded like. I also believe that the Brian was absolutely capable of finishing Smile, and that the reason Smile wasn’t finished was because Brian stopped working on it in a way that made sense or matched with how he had always worked up until that point, and began obsessively rerecording Heroes and Villains instead of finishing the other tracks. That said, there was absolutely still a lot of work to be done.

Re: sequence. The Look Listen Vibrate Smile track sequence represents the general fan-consensus from the 1990s, more or less (and probably helped create it!). There is a kind of intuitive logic to how it fits together, which is why, I think, it has provided the rough template for so many fan mixes up to the present day. However—and I would love to be proven wrong on this—I don’t believe I have ever seen any evidence whatsoever that Brian had *decided* on a sequence in 1966 or 67, let alone that we have any way of knowing what it might have been. The only sequence-related evidence I know of is that Our Prayer would have gone first and been unlisted. Everything else is conjecture. Does it make sense for Heroes to go first, Surf’s Up to go last, the “life” songs to go on the A side and the “element” songs to go on the B side? Sure. Do we have evidence for any of those ideas? I’d love to see it if we do.

Re: track list. This is a contentious topic as well. Personally, I believe that Brian was still enough in command of the process in late ’66 and early ’67 that he must have approved the track list given to Capital Records, that he was aware it was being printed on jackets, and that he planned to use it. I also believe that Smile would have consisted of 12 discretely-banded songs with fades (there are just too many fades recorded for it to be otherwise!), although I suspect some of those fades would not have been faded, making them functionally “link tracks”.

So what was left to do when Smile was abandoned, in my view? The vast majority of songs were in literal pieces. They needed to be "assembled" for lack of a better word, from the various session tapes, mixed down to a finished backing track, and have any missing vocals recorded. For most of these songs, Brian could probably have done this in a session or two, had he put his mind to it. But Surf's Up, the Elements, and I'm in Great Shape still needed much more extensive recording, and Child is the Father of the Man needed lyrics.

Track by track:

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Wind Chimes - needed to be assembled, very close.

Heroes and Villains - needed to be assembled, also close, although the question of what to include in it seems to have tortured Brian.

Surf’s Up - Second Movement and Third Movement tracks needed to be arranged and recorded, backing vocals needed to be recorded, lead vocal needed to be recorded. It is very important to remember that the 70s version simply does not represent what Brian would have done with this track in 1967. It is unquestionable that parts 2 and 3 would have gotten backing tracks as sophisticated and beautiful as part 1. What we got instead was a sweetened piano demo. Another heartbreaking loss, in my view.

Good Vibrations - finished

Cabin Essence - backing track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This was done in '68, but when the project was abandoned this one was left in a similar state to Do You Like Worms.

Wonderful - track needed to be assembled. Unclear (to me, anyway) what the intention was for the fade, though Brian seems to have planned one.

I’m in Great Shape - track needed to be assembled, possibly additional instrumental sessions needed, vocals needed to be recorded. Possible that Brian didn’t actually know what all the pieces were going to be for this one.

Child is Father of the Man - we have a finished backing track for this, but the lead vocal not only needed to be recorded but Van Dyke doesn’t seem to have gotten around to writing the lyrics. The surviving track makes clear enough, in my view, that this was intended to be a proper song with verses.

The Elements - I believe the evidence is incontrovertible that this would have consisted of four short instrumental (or wordless vocal) pieces, one for each element. Fire needed backing vocals. Earth and Air were yet to be recorded. Status of “water” unclear. This one still needed a lot of work.

Vega-Tables - needed to be assembled, but very close.

the Old Master Painter - needed to be assembled. If Brian had used a version of Heroes and Villains (like the Cantina mix) that used the Old Master Painter fade, than it’s a little unclear what the status of this track would have been, but barring that, it was basically finished.
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BJL
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2022, 08:24:35 AM »

One other point re: sequencing. I don't think there's any evidence that lack of a sequence was ever a barrier to Smile's completion. If Brian had finished the songs, he would have sequenced them, and there's no reason to think that that would have given him any trouble. It's just that because he *didn't* finish the songs and *didn't* sequence them, we have no way of knowing what a finished sequence might have been.
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Galaxy Liz
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 10:30:33 AM »

I know this is what we have been led to believe but I’m just not sure that what we have in the form of the bootleg tracks substantiates it.  I know that many people have put together their own version but it seems that the whole time Fire was not burnt but was kept safely, that Sail on Sailor was written twice (I know it’s not part of SMiLE), once with Danny Hutton and once with VDP so these are examples of us being led to believe things not strictly speaking true.  We were told that the tapes were in terrible condition in the 70s but then when Alan Boyd went through them he said they were fine.  Then we know that despite Brian not being able to finish SMiLE he went on to re-record much of what he had done.  David Anderle "what Brian tried to do with Smiley Smile is he tried to salvage as much of Smile as he could and at the same time immediately go into his [long-discussed] humor album."so he must have had the ability to function and had not retired to a quivering heap in the corner.

There is an article I read recently which described SMiLE as Brian’s death/rebirth LSD trip and from which the sequence is evident and quite crucial.

We also know that Darian used some bootlegs to work out the sequencing so the majority of the work completed as Brian Wilson Present’s SMiLE is the re-recording of those original tracks in the sequence listed on the  original album.

There are versions which claim to be the album - probably a scam - but how do we really know?
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 10:31:21 AM »

I mean, yes and no. I strongly agree that the album was close enough to finished that it’s quite possible to *imagine* what a finished album might have sounded like. I also believe that the Brian was absolutely capable of finishing Smile, and that the reason Smile wasn’t finished was because Brian stopped working on it in a way that made sense or matched with how he had always worked up until that point, and began obsessively rerecording Heroes and Villains instead of finishing the other tracks. That said, there was absolutely still a lot of work to be done.

Re: sequence. The Look Listen Vibrate Smile track sequence represents the general fan-consensus from the 1990s, more or less (and probably helped create it!). There is a kind of intuitive logic to how it fits together, which is why, I think, it has provided the rough template for so many fan mixes up to the present day. However—and I would love to be proven wrong on this—I don’t believe I have ever seen any evidence whatsoever that Brian had *decided* on a sequence in 1966 or 67, let alone that we have any way of knowing what it might have been. The only sequence-related evidence I know of is that Our Prayer would have gone first and been unlisted. Everything else is conjecture. Does it make sense for Heroes to go first, Surf’s Up to go last, the “life” songs to go on the A side and the “element” songs to go on the B side? Sure. Do we have evidence for any of those ideas? I’d love to see it if we do.

Re: track list. This is a contentious topic as well. Personally, I believe that Brian was still enough in command of the process in late ’66 and early ’67 that he must have approved the track list given to Capital Records, that he was aware it was being printed on jackets, and that he planned to use it. I also believe that Smile would have consisted of 12 discretely-banded songs with fades (there are just too many fades recorded for it to be otherwise!), although I suspect some of those fades would not have been faded, making them functionally “link tracks”.

So what was left to do when Smile was abandoned, in my view? The vast majority of songs were in literal pieces. They needed to be "assembled" for lack of a better word, from the various session tapes, mixed down to a finished backing track, and have any missing vocals recorded. For most of these songs, Brian could probably have done this in a session or two, had he put his mind to it. But Surf's Up, the Elements, and I'm in Great Shape still needed much more extensive recording, and Child is the Father of the Man needed lyrics.

Track by track:

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Wind Chimes - needed to be assembled, very close.

Heroes and Villains - needed to be assembled, also close, although the question of what to include in it seems to have tortured Brian.

Surf’s Up - Second Movement and Third Movement tracks needed to be arranged and recorded, backing vocals needed to be recorded, lead vocal needed to be recorded. It is very important to remember that the 70s version simply does not represent what Brian would have done with this track in 1967. It is unquestionable that parts 2 and 3 would have gotten backing tracks as sophisticated and beautiful as part 1. What we got instead was a sweetened piano demo. Another heartbreaking loss, in my view.

Good Vibrations - finished

Cabin Essence - backing track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This was done in '68, but when the project was abandoned this one was left in a similar state to Do You Like Worms.

Wonderful - track needed to be assembled. Unclear (to me, anyway) what the intention was for the fade, though Brian seems to have planned one.

I’m in Great Shape - track needed to be assembled, possibly additional instrumental sessions needed, vocals needed to be recorded. Possible that Brian didn’t actually know what all the pieces were going to be for this one.

Child is Father of the Man - we have a finished backing track for this, but the lead vocal not only needed to be recorded but Van Dyke doesn’t seem to have gotten around to writing the lyrics. The surviving track makes clear enough, in my view, that this was intended to be a proper song with verses.

The Elements - I believe the evidence is incontrovertible that this would have consisted of four short instrumental (or wordless vocal) pieces, one for each element. Fire needed backing vocals. Earth and Air were yet to be recorded. Status of “water” unclear. This one still needed a lot of work.

Vega-Tables - needed to be assembled, but very close.

the Old Master Painter - needed to be assembled. If Brian had used a version of Heroes and Villains (like the Cantina mix) that used the Old Master Painter fade, than it’s a little unclear what the status of this track would have been, but barring that, it was basically finished.

Excellent summary.  For Wonderful, besides the tag it seems clear Brian intended Carl to sing it.  It seems Brian rejected his original attempt that we now all know and love, recorded two new versions of it - the awful Rock with me Henry version, and then a new track with some beautiful backing vocals  in April at the Vegetables sessions, left unfinished.  If he had completed Smile would he have completed the April version, recorded a new version, or reverted back to the August/October Brian lead vocal take?  

I'm in Great Shape - I'm convinced Barnyard would have been part of the song (essentially making this the "Barnyard suite") but as you say what else he would have included, or if other sections were to be recorded (Barnyard Billy?) is unclear.
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Aomdiddlywalla
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 11:59:18 AM »

I mean, yes and no. I strongly agree that the album was close enough to finished that it’s quite possible to *imagine* what a finished album might have sounded like. I also believe that the Brian was absolutely capable of finishing Smile, and that the reason Smile wasn’t finished was because Brian stopped working on it in a way that made sense or matched with how he had always worked up until that point, and began obsessively rerecording Heroes and Villains instead of finishing the other tracks. That said, there was absolutely still a lot of work to be done.

Re: sequence. The Look Listen Vibrate Smile track sequence represents the general fan-consensus from the 1990s, more or less (and probably helped create it!). There is a kind of intuitive logic to how it fits together, which is why, I think, it has provided the rough template for so many fan mixes up to the present day. However—and I would love to be proven wrong on this—I don’t believe I have ever seen any evidence whatsoever that Brian had *decided* on a sequence in 1966 or 67, let alone that we have any way of knowing what it might have been. The only sequence-related evidence I know of is that Our Prayer would have gone first and been unlisted. Everything else is conjecture. Does it make sense for Heroes to go first, Surf’s Up to go last, the “life” songs to go on the A side and the “element” songs to go on the B side? Sure. Do we have evidence for any of those ideas? I’d love to see it if we do.

Re: track list. This is a contentious topic as well. Personally, I believe that Brian was still enough in command of the process in late ’66 and early ’67 that he must have approved the track list given to Capital Records, that he was aware it was being printed on jackets, and that he planned to use it. I also believe that Smile would have consisted of 12 discretely-banded songs with fades (there are just too many fades recorded for it to be otherwise!), although I suspect some of those fades would not have been faded, making them functionally “link tracks”.

So what was left to do when Smile was abandoned, in my view? The vast majority of songs were in literal pieces. They needed to be "assembled" for lack of a better word, from the various session tapes, mixed down to a finished backing track, and have any missing vocals recorded. For most of these songs, Brian could probably have done this in a session or two, had he put his mind to it. But Surf's Up, the Elements, and I'm in Great Shape still needed much more extensive recording, and Child is the Father of the Man needed lyrics.

Track by track:

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Wind Chimes - needed to be assembled, very close.

Heroes and Villains - needed to be assembled, also close, although the question of what to include in it seems to have tortured Brian.

Surf’s Up - Second Movement and Third Movement tracks needed to be arranged and recorded, backing vocals needed to be recorded, lead vocal needed to be recorded. It is very important to remember that the 70s version simply does not represent what Brian would have done with this track in 1967. It is unquestionable that parts 2 and 3 would have gotten backing tracks as sophisticated and beautiful as part 1. What we got instead was a sweetened piano demo. Another heartbreaking loss, in my view.

Good Vibrations - finished

Cabin Essence - backing track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This was done in '68, but when the project was abandoned this one was left in a similar state to Do You Like Worms.

Wonderful - track needed to be assembled. Unclear (to me, anyway) what the intention was for the fade, though Brian seems to have planned one.

I’m in Great Shape - track needed to be assembled, possibly additional instrumental sessions needed, vocals needed to be recorded. Possible that Brian didn’t actually know what all the pieces were going to be for this one.

Child is Father of the Man - we have a finished backing track for this, but the lead vocal not only needed to be recorded but Van Dyke doesn’t seem to have gotten around to writing the lyrics. The surviving track makes clear enough, in my view, that this was intended to be a proper song with verses.

The Elements - I believe the evidence is incontrovertible that this would have consisted of four short instrumental (or wordless vocal) pieces, one for each element. Fire needed backing vocals. Earth and Air were yet to be recorded. Status of “water” unclear. This one still needed a lot of work.

Vega-Tables - needed to be assembled, but very close.

the Old Master Painter - needed to be assembled. If Brian had used a version of Heroes and Villains (like the Cantina mix) that used the Old Master Painter fade, than it’s a little unclear what the status of this track would have been, but barring that, it was basically finished.

Excellent summary.  For Wonderful, besides the tag it seems clear Brian intended Carl to sing it.  It seems Brian rejected his original attempt that we now all know and love, recorded two new versions of it - the awful Rock with me Henry version, and then a new track with some beautiful backing vocals  in April at the Vegetables sessions, left unfinished.  If he had completed Smile would he have completed the April version, recorded a new version, or reverted back to the August/October Brian lead vocal take?  

I'm in Great Shape - I'm convinced Barnyard would have been part of the song (essentially making this the "Barnyard suite") but as you say what else he would have included, or if other sections were to be recorded (Barnyard Billy?) is unclear.


‘Barnyard Billy loved his chicken’.   Now that’s taken me back to 96, I’d forgotten about that.  Thanks
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BJL
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2022, 12:33:10 PM »

Excellent summary.  For Wonderful, besides the tag it seems clear Brian intended Carl to sing it.  It seems Brian rejected his original attempt that we now all know and love, recorded two new versions of it - the awful Rock with me Henry version, and then a new track with some beautiful backing vocals  in April at the Vegetables sessions, left unfinished.  If he had completed Smile would he have completed the April version, recorded a new version, or reverted back to the August/October Brian lead vocal take?  

I'm in Great Shape - I'm convinced Barnyard would have been part of the song (essentially making this the "Barnyard suite") but as you say what else he would have included, or if other sections were to be recorded (Barnyard Billy?) is unclear.

My personal interpretation of the surviving evidence is that the moment at which Smile turned irrevocably down the path to "lost album" status was when Brian decided not to release the Cantina mix of Heroes. There is an article from mid-February 1967 where he told a reporter about having finished the A side of Heroes, almost certainly referring to the Cantina mix (which, it's worth noting, is along with Good Vibrations really the only indication we have of what "finished" meant to Brian for a song during these sessions, even if he did turn around and reject it a week later). In that interview, he says that he just needed to figure out what to put on the B side, that he didn't want to use a Pet Sounds track or give something away from the rest of the album, and that he was planning to go into the studio and cut something, just him and the piano. If Brian had done that, at that moment, cut a piano-vocal version of Wonderful, say, or anything else, and released the cantina mix of Heroes and Villains, then he would have had a solid month as it was pressed and distributed and climbed the charts however high it was going to go, in which to finish the rest of the album. Similarly, had he mixed down a two-part single in mid-to-late February (which seems pretty plausible based on what was recorded, but wasn't actually done), he would have been in the same position. In any event, if all the pointless Heroes sessions of late February and March had been dedicated to mixing down and recording vocals for the other songs, the album would have moved fast--probably too fast to stop--and come out that spring. I can't prove it, but that's my hunch. Instead, Brian made no real effort to finish the album after January, 1767. Even the Vegetables sessions were only given so much energy because Brian decided to make *that* the single for a hot second.

That said, in this scenario, Brian would have finished the record as he conceived and recorded it in the fall of 66. Which means he would have used the Wonderful track he'd already recorded, he would have used the track list he'd already given Capital. Any scenario that has Brian reinventing the wheel in 1967 is, in my opinion, a scenario in which Smile doesn't come out.
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2022, 12:55:28 PM »

I know this is what we have been led to believe but I’m just not sure that what we have in the form of the bootleg tracks substantiates it.  I know that many people have put together their own version but it seems that the whole time Fire was not burnt but was kept safely, that Sail on Sailor was written twice (I know it’s not part of SMiLE), once with Danny Hutton and once with VDP so these are examples of us being led to believe things not strictly speaking true.  We were told that the tapes were in terrible condition in the 70s but then when Alan Boyd went through them he said they were fine.  Then we know that despite Brian not being able to finish SMiLE he went on to re-record much of what he had done.  David Anderle "what Brian tried to do with Smiley Smile is he tried to salvage as much of Smile as he could and at the same time immediately go into his [long-discussed] humor album."so he must have had the ability to function and had not retired to a quivering heap in the corner.

There is an article I read recently which described SMiLE as Brian’s death/rebirth LSD trip and from which the sequence is evident and quite crucial.

We also know that Darian used some bootlegs to work out the sequencing so the majority of the work completed as Brian Wilson Present’s SMiLE is the re-recording of those original tracks in the sequence listed on the  original album.

There are versions which claim to be the album - probably a scam - but how do we really know?

But there is no sequence listed on the original album! There has never been a sequence listed anywhere, except in the imaginations of overeager fans, that had any basis in historical evidence. The album Brian was recording in December, 1966 had 400,000 album jackets printed for it. It had twelve songs listed on those jackets, with a note to see the record for the correct playing order. It had an elaborate booklet. Every single one of the songs had been heavily worked on. So far as I'm concerned, that album was Smile. 12 songs. It was not finished. It was close, but significant work remained to be done. That is a fact.

In 1967, Brian recorded a lot of material. Very conspicuously, the list I made above of what needed to be done for each track on the December track list? Brian didn't do *any* of it in 1967 (except for arguably the work on Vegetables). Instead, he rerecorded things, he tinkered with Heroes, he started some new songs. Whatever he was doing, it wasn't finishing the album that he had conceived in the fall of 1966. Can a bootlegger make a great track list out of all the pieces Brian recorded during the Smile era? Yes, absolutely. But there is just no evidence whatsoever that Brian Wilson ever knew what the sequence was or that there is any way for anyone to figure out what his intentions were for it.
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2022, 01:08:11 PM »

Smiley Smile is Smile.  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2022, 01:10:52 PM »

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 01:18:35 PM »

Smiley Smile is Smile.  Smiley

Smile, especially BWPS always puts a smile on my face, whereas Smiley Smile just puts me in a weird/dark-ish mood. So from a historical context I can see why some would think that Smiley Smile is Smile, but from the context that Brian wanted to make people smile when listening to the album, I will always think the original material (or BWPS) is Smile.

Side note, I actually vastly prefer BWPS over the original Smile material - even with the non-Beach Boys voices. It is just so complete, colorful, and happy.

BWPS is Smile Grin
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 01:39:08 PM »

Smiley Smile is Smile.  Smiley

Just like we were told in "webisodes" how all the other guys simply LOVED and ADORED the Smile music...

I also have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.  LOL
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 02:38:00 PM »

Do You Like Worms? - instrumental track needed to be assembled, lead vocal needed to be recorded. This one is a tragedy, in my view, because the Beach Boys could have done this at any point up to the 1980s and given us a track as finished-sounding as Cabin Essence or Surf's Up, two other songs left in fragments and missing vocals in 1967.

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.

Yep,  tragedy that the fast descending melody that follows the bass line was not discovered before 2004. Also surprised no fan mixer has used it on Worms yet ?!
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 03:01:52 PM »

My memory is very hazy regarding this, but I could’ve sworn that someone did meld the two together. But it has been so many years that I can’t be sure of it. If anyone remembers anything like this please feel free to post!
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 03:08:40 PM »

My memory is very hazy regarding this, but I could’ve sworn that someone did meld the two together. But it has been so many years that I can’t be sure of it. If anyone remembers anything like this please feel free to post!

Someone did, I just can't remember who or where either!
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2022, 06:06:36 PM »

Smiley Smile was the album that made me a Beach Boys fan… 26 years ago. Doesn’t even feel that long
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2022, 06:21:51 PM »

Smiley Smile was the album that made me a Beach Boys fan… 26 years ago. Doesn’t even feel that long

I grew up immersed (as a High School Smile obsessive in the early 2000s) in the idea, still widely prevalent at that time, I think, that Smiley Smile was a failure for being not Smile. I absolutely fell in love with Wild Honey, and because it was on a two-fer with Smiley Smile I listened to Smiley Smile a lot too, more or less by accident...and one day I realized... oh my god it's brilliant! One hell of a consolation prize, huh.
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Galaxy Liz
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 02:16:11 AM »

There has never been a sequence listed anywhere, except in the imaginations of overeager fans, that had any basis in historical evidence. The album Brian was recording in December, 1966 had 400,000 album jackets printed for it. It had twelve songs listed on those jackets, with a note to see the record for the correct playing order. It had an elaborate booklet. Every single one of the songs had been heavily worked on. So far as I'm concerned, that album was Smile. 12 songs. It was not finished. It was close, but significant work remained to be done. That is a fact.

In 1967, Brian recorded a lot of material. Very conspicuously, the list I made above of what needed to be done for each track on the December track list? Brian didn't do *any* of it in 1967 (except for arguably the work on Vegetables). Instead, he rerecorded things, he tinkered with Heroes, he started some new songs. Whatever he was doing, it wasn't finishing the album that he had conceived in the fall of 1966. Can a bootlegger make a great track list out of all the pieces Brian recorded during the Smile era? Yes, absolutely. But there is just no evidence whatsoever that Brian Wilson ever knew what the sequence was or that there is any way for anyone to figure out what his intentions were for it.

I got into this from the discussion on the track sequence in Look Listen on another thread.  Dominic after considerable research came up with a list which co-incidentally (or not) matches one in my possession which came with music - all of which we have heard before on the bootlegs so nothing more was needed to complete it as an album.  It may have been complied post 1967 by a fan.
I'm just making the point that it was easily possible to complete what was offered to Capitol with the existing recordings.  I'm sure Brian would have carried on working on it if there hadn't been difficulties with the group and polished it endlessly, just as he did with GV, and probably to it''s betterment but re-recording parts at less quality to produce Smiley Smile was totally unnecessary. 
We are led to believe that during this time Brian was a train wreck but nevertheless he was able to record and produce an album and come up with an innovative method of final mixing which the technician described as a miracle but yet was unable to take the composite parts he had recorded already and form an album.  That had to be left to a much less skilled fan to do without the resources Brian had!  Sorry but I just don't believe it.  Brian no doubt wanted to perfect it and the others just didn't want it released.  It was an excuse.

The sequence of the 4 elements is set by it's subject.  I have an article from 2009 published on thesmileshop.net which sadly no longer exists which explains the lyrics and the sequence is Fire, Water, Air, Water, Earth - with water being very specifically being featured twice.  Unfortunately I've lost the bit with the author's name.
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2022, 02:39:25 AM »

I'm Liz's sister. The article is called 'SMiLE and Hawaii: Not Gibberish After All' - I suppose familiar to many here.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 03:50:03 AM by Angela Jones » Logged
William Bowe
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 04:19:31 AM »

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this refer to? Where specifically can I find it on The Smile Sessions?
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Angela Jones
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2022, 04:44:40 AM »

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this refer to? Where specifically can I find it on The Smile Sessions?

Is it this bit? About 0.36 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQc1K_kD9E
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 04:54:07 AM by Angela Jones » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2022, 06:11:22 AM »

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this refer to? Where specifically can I find it on The Smile Sessions?

Track 1 disc 3 (‘Do You Like Worms?, Part 1’), at the 3:17 mark. It starts with Brian talking to VDPs: “Right, Van?” and then he starts singing the melody.
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2022, 06:22:21 AM »

Honestly it kinda broke my heart when that small snippet of the original melody for DYLW was unsurfaced when the Smile Sessions came out. It is so different from the BWPS version (and so much better)...it really is a tragedy that the lead vocal was never recorded. I'm so glad that the melody was brought to light, but it also shows us a glimpse of what could have been.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this refer to? Where specifically can I find it on The Smile Sessions?

Track 1 disc 3 (‘Do You Like Worms?, Part 1’), at the 3:17 mark. It starts with Brian talking to VDPs: “Right, Van?” and then he starts singing the melody.

Click on this link and hit play, it's right there as Rab said:

https://youtu.be/zRocIqQSsK8?t=194
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 06:23:14 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2022, 06:27:40 AM »

Interesting to compare the snippet of melody played by the upright bass on the clip Angela posted above to the melody Brian sings in the control room Rab mentioned at the link I just posted: They're in the same rhythmic groove, call it swing 8th's or dotted 8th note and a 16th note, but they're very similar motifs and both could compliment each other perfectly. The bass melody descends in a more smooth way, while the vocal is more angular.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2022, 06:39:35 AM »

Okay, did a little digging:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11408.msg243878.html#msg243878


I actually synced up two different versions: One with the line doubled during the verse, to show what the melody (obviously with different lyrics each time) would have sounded like over the full verse, and a second with the line set against the BWPS version (still twice, in a different place the second time) to explore the call-and-answer/multiple melodies avenue.


Thanks to Hypehat's help, I uploaded the two songs.  Questions?  Thoughts?

http://www.mediafire.com/?jhz7t9q1o7g53mb

http://www.mediafire.com/?dztw18x2sazl1qb

The first link doesn't appear to work, the second link leads to a WAV file with a mashup of the 2004 RPR and the new (vintage) melody.
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God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.
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