gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
676409 Posts in 27291 Topics by 4032 Members - Latest Member: theangel August 10, 2022, 03:35:37 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Just A Thought  (Read 1656 times)
petsite
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 769



View Profile
« on: July 10, 2022, 01:35:30 AM »

Haven't been posting as of late. Been really under the weather. But I did want to say something about all of the bashing that is taking place on both boards. It's one of the reasons I did not post during most the last two years. People cooped up inside because of Covid did not help the situation. So much anger. I could not take it.

When people use to disagree, it was "Hey, that is your opinion. I don't agree with it, but, hey I like what I like." In so many arguments anymore, it has become "THAT'S your opinion? What kind of shallow end of the gene pool are you from. I hope you get hit by a plane falling out of the sky that kills your whole family. THIS OPINION HERE is the only one to have!!!! GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!"

While that last statement is an exaggeration, there is a lot of "you only think that way because you're a moron" kind of speech.

This music is precious and finite. There will NEVER be a catalog of work like this ever again. And it took FIVE people to bring it to pass. No less than that. While I don't like everyone in the group, they ALL played an integral part in bring this music to life AND to keep it going for 60+ years.

So next time someone wants to throw sh*t at each other, SMILEY board here and ENDLESS HARMONY board there, remember that there is a common thread that binds us. Forget that, and we forget the reason we started on this journey in the first place.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 01:37:12 AM by petsite » Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11743


🍦🍦 Poor bookie couldnít cut the mustard ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2022, 03:24:01 AM »

Haven't been posting as of late. Been really under the weather. But I did want to say something about all of the bashing that is taking place on both boards. It's one of the reasons I did not post during most the last two years. People cooped up inside because of Covid did not help the situation. So much anger. I could not take it.

When people use to disagree, it was "Hey, that is your opinion. I don't agree with it, but, hey I like what I like." In so many arguments anymore, it has become "THAT'S your opinion? What kind of shallow end of the gene pool are you from. I hope you get hit by a plane falling out of the sky that kills your whole family. THIS OPINION HERE is the only one to have!!!! GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!"

While that last statement is an exaggeration, there is a lot of "you only think that way because you're a moron" kind of speech.

This music is precious and finite. There will NEVER be a catalog of work like this ever again. And it took FIVE people to bring it to pass. No less than that. While I don't like everyone in the group, they ALL played an integral part in bring this music to life AND to keep it going for 60+ years.

So next time someone wants to throw sh*t at each other, SMILEY board here and ENDLESS HARMONY board there, remember that there is a common thread that binds us. Forget that, and we forget the reason we started on this journey in the first place.



See, hereís the dealÖI agree. Thatís why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I donít care whoís doing what and where; itís disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isnít. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , itís not restricted to forums , because Iíve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone elseÖthatís just how I am) Iím reiterating itís not forum based in my opinion

Edit

Forum specific, I meant
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 03:24:30 AM by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

ďMy cape is at the dry cleaners,Ē he explained.

Iím writing a book of online BB fandom. Itís called ďNever Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Momís CouchĒ
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5771


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2022, 06:08:34 AM »

Every single poster on any forum or social media has formed their outlooks/perspectives based on information they have been exposed to. So wherever we get our information from, and how highly we rank those sources internally is how we formulate our opinions - and each and every fan/poster gets their information from slightly (or vastly) different sources. Most of us have a general outlook about the band that we can all agree on, it's the fringe part of that story that disconnects us from certain sects of the fanbase. Every single person thinks that the way they look at things is the most logical...it is why all of us are so passionate/grounded about our opinions.

I also think the internet gives people a means to talk to other people in a way that they wouldn't talk to people in real life. It's like driving in traffic yelling obscenities at the guy who just cut you off from the safety of your locked vehicle. I've absolutely talked to people differently on this forum than I would in real life. It's not something I'm proud of and want to change. But again, it harkens back to being firmly entrenched in my opinion.

People on both sides have criticized the anonymous monickers that most of us create to hide our real identity (which I think aids in the temptation to be more harsh in our posts than we would be in real life) - the anonymity is mostly due to an actual history of people's real lives being affected by posters with nefarious intent. It has happened in this very fandom and it's nothing to take lightly.

All that being said, when people are literally calling for Mark to be fired (an opinion that has the possibility to take someone's means of putting food on the table away), I think a reasoned countered response is necessary to such talk. There is/was a large-scale onslaught against Howie Edelson on the EH forum. Such an outcry from a vocal minority could indeed have an impact on his employment (highly unlikely, of course, but not impossible). It looked like mob-mentality over there, a vast swath of angry/irritated posters against one man. I personally won't sit back watching a guy (who loves this band with all his heart) be taken down like some surrounded beast on an African plain. I'm kinda surprised that I've seen Alan Boyd logged into the EH forum often in recent weeks while Mark and Howie get absolutely pummeled. Not saying that Alan should get caught up in the drama, but when your very work, when your very team is getting completely decimated, it's just odd to see one of the team literally watching it all happen.

Anywho, I completely agree that there is a common bond that binds us all, and it's why I believe that one day we'll be able to enjoy the music and not let the politics overshadow that beauty. But for now, while good men get their names tarnished, while lies about friends of mine are still being spread, I won't sit back and watch.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

God mustíve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj ē ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.
petsite
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 769



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2022, 06:52:05 AM »

I will say that there are some things being done with the catalog that I do not like. But you know what? That is where it ends. If others like it, more power to the guys doing the work. My opinion is mine alone. I only get angry when others say you need to change your opinion....NOW! We all do. But without opinions, no one can ever make a decision on anything.

I really do like the old adage, with the extra ending.

OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES, EVERYBODY HAS ONE.....AND EVERYBODY THINKS THEIRS DOES NOT STINK, IT THE OTHER GUY'S THAT DOES!
Logged
BJL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 299


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2022, 12:03:01 PM »

See, hereís the dealÖI agree. Thatís why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I donít care whoís doing what and where; itís disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isnít. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , itís not restricted to forums , because Iíve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone elseÖthatís just how I am) Iím reiterating itís not forum based in my opinion

Please don't take this personally, but I do think even here, you know, the rhetoric could be toned down. Are these people really "scum"? Are they really worthless and disgusting? I would guess that most of them have and all of them have had families, people that love them, good days and bad days. I agree with you 100% about the behaviors you're talking about. That kind of *behavior* is despicable. There is no excuse for it in any context, let alone the context of an online forum devoted to a band founded in 1962 for God's sake. These people have *lost the thread* (excuse the pun). But they're not scum and personally I just don't think thinking of them that way helps anyone. Not to say your anger and frustration is not understandable, but I feel like it's almost always more productive to call out the behavior than the person.
Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11743


🍦🍦 Poor bookie couldnít cut the mustard ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2022, 02:46:28 PM »

See, hereís the dealÖI agree. Thatís why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I donít care whoís doing what and where; itís disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isnít. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , itís not restricted to forums , because Iíve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone elseÖthatís just how I am) Iím reiterating itís not forum based in my opinion

Please don't take this personally, but I do think even here, you know, the rhetoric could be toned down. Are these people really "scum"? Are they really worthless and disgusting? I would guess that most of them have and all of them have had families, people that love them, good days and bad days. I agree with you 100% about the behaviors you're talking about. That kind of *behavior* is despicable. There is no excuse for it in any context, let alone the context of an online forum devoted to a band founded in 1962 for God's sake. These people have *lost the thread* (excuse the pun). But they're not scum and personally I just don't think thinking of them that way helps anyone. Not to say your anger and frustration is not understandable, but I feel like it's almost always more productive to call out the behavior than the person.

Oh I definitely follow you and what youíre sayingÖ itís just that I have a major issue when I see peopleís parenting abilities being questioned. That was entirely uncalled for. When I read Rick Bartlett referring to the members here as bottom feeders, thatís one thing. Itís board drama. I donít like it, but I consider the source .  Same with this crap
Quote
SS banned people left and right that dared to criticize any of Brianís shortcomings AND worse banned people left and right that stood up for Mike.
. All I can do is point out thatís a lie (which it is) and ask again for one example (which Iíll never get , because there are none ). That comes with the territory of being online, much less a mod. Does speak volumes about character, but itís a mere annoyance. Thatís not what Iím referring to, at all. What Iím talking about is the same behavior that got these specific people banned from here in the first placeÖthe fact that the small handful of people Iím referring to are still acting the same way )and worse in some cases), my ability to bite my tongue is lessened. That goes beyond having a bad day and into the realm of personality defects.

Hopefully I explained myself well enough, and that Iím talking about 3-4 people only* and not everyone who didnít like the new mixes. I mean, it shouldíve obvious especially since Iíve said it multiple times, but Iím so used to people taking things I say the wrong way (not just online) that Iím a bit shell shocked.

Logged

ďMy cape is at the dry cleaners,Ē he explained.

Iím writing a book of online BB fandom. Itís called ďNever Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Momís CouchĒ
BJL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 299


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2022, 03:25:03 PM »

Hopefully I explained myself well enough, and that Iím talking about 3-4 people only* and not everyone who didnít like the new mixes. I mean, it shouldíve obvious especially since Iíve said it multiple times, but Iím so used to people taking things I say the wrong way (not just online) that Iím a bit shell shocked.

Yea. And I want to add that I really feel for you, and honestly for anyone else trying to moderate an online community in this day and age, or even just put something positive out into the world of the internet. I definitely appreciate all the unpaid work that goes into keeping a board like this a (relatively) fun and comfortable place for people to chat about music, and the fact that the people doing that work too often get paid with a lot of stupid negativity and just...unwillingness to even try to be sympathetic or even like basically decent is pretty sad...
Logged
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5771


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2022, 04:36:05 PM »

Actually this is a great look into the philosophy of each forum. Petsite posted the same thing on the EH forum, and the response from leadership is quite different there than here. Billy agreed with the initial post and explained his perspective. DrBeachBoy on the other hand states there are no "Kum-bay-a moments" on these forums. literally painting himself as a Wyatt Earp character protecting the streets. Only given the recent dust-up with Howie Edelson, he is not as he says "trying to keep the peace" but he is a huge part of the reason why Howie Edelson walked out of Tombstone under a barrage of insults from a vast swath of members there.

It is stupid board drama, but it is rooted in the fact that a lot of posters were booted off of here for breaking forum rules - then they all congregated on the PS forum and then the EH forum. So when those people who broke rules continue to lie about people here, when they continue to insult people, of course we are going to set the record straight. When a Beach Boys insider gets run out of Dodge, I think it's fair to comment on the reasons it happened.

The silly thing is that I was really hoping that this set would bring a lot of people together - it is an amazing set with some really good mixes. But instead it just further divided people. Like Howie says, we don't all need to think the same exact way and have the same taste (what a boring world that would be). But there is such a thing as having tact/respect when talking to (and about) the people who have made it their life mission to make sure The Beach Boys keep releasing tracks.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

God mustíve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj ē ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11743


🍦🍦 Poor bookie couldnít cut the mustard ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2022, 05:16:25 PM »

Hopefully I explained myself well enough, and that Iím talking about 3-4 people only* and not everyone who didnít like the new mixes. I mean, it shouldíve obvious especially since Iíve said it multiple times, but Iím so used to people taking things I say the wrong way (not just online) that Iím a bit shell shocked.

Yea. And I want to add that I really feel for you, and honestly for anyone else trying to moderate an online community in this day and age, or even just put something positive out into the world of the internet. I definitely appreciate all the unpaid work that goes into keeping a board like this a (relatively) fun and comfortable place for people to chat about music, and the fact that the people doing that work too often get paid with a lot of stupid negativity and just...unwillingness to even try to be sympathetic or even like basically decent is pretty sad...

👍
Logged

ďMy cape is at the dry cleaners,Ē he explained.

Iím writing a book of online BB fandom. Itís called ďNever Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Momís CouchĒ
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11743


🍦🍦 Poor bookie couldnít cut the mustard ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2022, 05:37:50 PM »

Actually this is a great look into the philosophy of each forum. Petsite posted the same thing on the EH forum, and the response from leadership is quite different there than here. Billy agreed with the initial post and explained his perspective. DrBeachBoy on the other hand states there are no "Kum-bay-a moments" on these forums. literally painting himself as a Wyatt Earp character protecting the streets. Only given the recent dust-up with Howie Edelson, he is not as he says "trying to keep the peace" but he is a huge part of the reason why Howie Edelson walked out of Tombstone under a barrage of insults from a vast swath of members there.

It is stupid board drama, but it is rooted in the fact that a lot of posters were booted off of here for breaking forum rules - then they all congregated on the PS forum and then the EH forum. So when those people who broke rules continue to lie about people here, when they continue to insult people, of course we are going to set the record straight. When a Beach Boys insider gets run out of Dodge, I think it's fair to comment on the reasons it happened.

The silly thing is that I was really hoping that this set would bring a lot of people together - it is an amazing set with some really good mixes. But instead it just further divided people. Like Howie says, we don't all need to think the same exact way and have the same taste (what a boring world that would be). But there is such a thing as having tact/respect when talking to (and about) the people who have made it their life mission to make sure The Beach Boys keep releasing tracks.

Yep. The messed up part is, for many years many of us wanted desperately for The Beach Boys to be looked at how they actually wereÖ an innovative band that ranks up there with the very best bands  in history , and were not a ďguilty pleasureĒ that were only relevant for a few years. Guess whatÖwe won.  Sadly, now many long term fans are saying ďno they were never as good ď and thatís itís foolish to ďpretendĒ that they were ever ďcoolĒ.  Thatís why I said what I said the other day about how ďeveryone loves The Beach BoysÖexcept their own fansĒ.
 
Now why that is, thatís the million dollar question. My own personal belief is that it took too long for some people. Itís a fact of life that as people get older, many of them resent the younger generations for no other reason than itís not them. I got called ageist the other day for saying that (not here) but itís true. Thereís a certain sense of entitlement that comes with getting older. (And I do get it, I mean Iím not exactly in my 20s. Iím way closer to the grave vs the cradle. So yeah I include myself too; I just possess enough self awareness to fight that off and try like hell to become what I donít like. ) So they see the band getting popular with 20 somethings and under , and resent the fact thatís the target audience now. Well, the 18-34 demographic is focused on by *everyone* in the entertainment industry for a damn good reason . If Iconic were to ignore that, wellÖyeah. That would be absolutely terrible in a business sense. But yeah, thatís where a lot of the current resentment comes, and itís rather sad and pathetic.  Itís this ď me me meĒ attitude, and ďf*ck  everyone elseĒ that I quite frankly despise. I read that some people donít want there to be any future sets now. I mean, they could just not buy it. But nope, NOBODY should be allowed to have it, cause they donít like it. I just will never understand that attitude
Logged

ďMy cape is at the dry cleaners,Ē he explained.

Iím writing a book of online BB fandom. Itís called ďNever Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Momís CouchĒ
Awesoman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1721


Disagreements? Work 'em out.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2022, 06:13:31 AM »

Actually this is a great look into the philosophy of each forum. Petsite posted the same thing on the EH forum, and the response from leadership is quite different there than here. Billy agreed with the initial post and explained his perspective. DrBeachBoy on the other hand states there are no "Kum-bay-a moments" on these forums. literally painting himself as a Wyatt Earp character protecting the streets. Only given the recent dust-up with Howie Edelson, he is not as he says "trying to keep the peace" but he is a huge part of the reason why Howie Edelson walked out of Tombstone under a barrage of insults from a vast swath of members there.

It is stupid board drama, but it is rooted in the fact that a lot of posters were booted off of here for breaking forum rules - then they all congregated on the PS forum and then the EH forum. So when those people who broke rules continue to lie about people here, when they continue to insult people, of course we are going to set the record straight. When a Beach Boys insider gets run out of Dodge, I think it's fair to comment on the reasons it happened.

The silly thing is that I was really hoping that this set would bring a lot of people together - it is an amazing set with some really good mixes. But instead it just further divided people. Like Howie says, we don't all need to think the same exact way and have the same taste (what a boring world that would be). But there is such a thing as having tact/respect when talking to (and about) the people who have made it their life mission to make sure The Beach Boys keep releasing tracks.

Yep. The messed up part is, for many years many of us wanted desperately for The Beach Boys to be looked at how they actually wereÖ an innovative band that ranks up there with the very best bands  in history , and were not a ďguilty pleasureĒ that were only relevant for a few years. Guess whatÖwe won.  Sadly, now many long term fans are saying ďno they were never as good ď and thatís itís foolish to ďpretendĒ that they were ever ďcoolĒ.  Thatís why I said what I said the other day about how ďeveryone loves The Beach BoysÖexcept their own fansĒ.
 
Now why that is, thatís the million dollar question. My own personal belief is that it took too long for some people. Itís a fact of life that as people get older, many of them resent the younger generations for no other reason than itís not them. I got called ageist the other day for saying that (not here) but itís true. Thereís a certain sense of entitlement that comes with getting older. (And I do get it, I mean Iím not exactly in my 20s. Iím way closer to the grave vs the cradle. So yeah I include myself too; I just possess enough self awareness to fight that off and try like hell to become what I donít like. ) So they see the band getting popular with 20 somethings and under , and resent the fact thatís the target audience now. Well, the 18-34 demographic is focused on by *everyone* in the entertainment industry for a damn good reason . If Iconic were to ignore that, wellÖyeah. That would be absolutely terrible in a business sense. But yeah, thatís where a lot of the current resentment comes, and itís rather sad and pathetic.  Itís this ď me me meĒ attitude, and ďf*ck  everyone elseĒ that I quite frankly despise. I read that some people donít want there to be any future sets now. I mean, they could just not buy it. But nope, NOBODY should be allowed to have it, cause they donít like it. I just will never understand that attitude

In all honesty, I think there is just an obsessiveness amongst the fandom that can be both a blessing and a detriment towards the  overall popularity of the group.  The band's image has had its ups and downs throughout their career and to the general public there is a perception that they were just another oldies act that came and went. 

Because of this there has always been fans fretting about the group's identity in pop culture.  I admit I used to be like this early on when I was getting into the group way back in the 90's.  But I've longed stop worrying about such trivialities.  Because the good has always outweighed the bad.  Because even back in the 90's there was plenty of praise showering the band and cementing their iconic status in music from the Don Was documentary on Brian to the band's Endless Harmony special.  It seems ever since Carl's passing there has been something of a renaissance over the band's music.  Most of their albums are now back in print.  There have been several high profile tribute concerts for Brian Wilson alone.  You have superstars like Johnny Depp covering Dennis Wilson material along with Jeff Beck.  You have a bunch of well known artists including Bob Dylan wishing Brian a happy 80th birthday.  They had a remarkable 50th anniversary with a well-received reunion album and tour.  And entering their 60th anniversary we're still getting blessed with expansive projects such as last year's Feel Flows box set to this year's Sounds of Summer release as well as the inevitable box set they have planned for the fall (or maybe next year). 

As I've stated before in previous posts in recent years we don't need to obsess endlessly over the group's image because as Billy said that battle has long since been won. 
Logged

And if you don't know where you're going
Any road will take you there
Zenobi
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 100


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2022, 09:38:11 AM »

I'm chiming in to say that I fully appreciate the work of this forum's admins, even beyond what words can express. They have saved the forum several times, though it has needed some harsh decisions at times. I have watched it all, and remember what really happened. There are several lies and untold truths around, indeed.
But Billy and Craig have done much more than simply save this, by now, "classic" forum. As a lifelong fan of the Beach Boys, the greatest cathedral of music in the latest 60 years, I believe that they have helped safeguarding the real Beach Boys legacy from some dangerous "revisionist" attempts. And now they are working to save the Howie matter from sinking into total disaster.

Thanks guys! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 09:40:30 AM by Zenobi » Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11743


🍦🍦 Poor bookie couldnít cut the mustard ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2022, 10:14:18 AM »

Thank you for that! Means a lot to me 🙂
Logged

ďMy cape is at the dry cleaners,Ē he explained.

Iím writing a book of online BB fandom. Itís called ďNever Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Momís CouchĒ
Angela Jones
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 55


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2022, 03:57:02 AM »

See, hereís the dealÖI agree. Thatís why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I donít care whoís doing what and where; itís disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isnít. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , itís not restricted to forums , because Iíve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone elseÖthatís just how I am) Iím reiterating itís not forum based in my opinion

Please don't take this personally, but I do think even here, you know, the rhetoric could be toned down. Are these people really "scum"? Are they really worthless and disgusting? I would guess that most of them have and all of them have had families, people that love them, good days and bad days. I agree with you 100% about the behaviors you're talking about. That kind of *behavior* is despicable. There is no excuse for it in any context, let alone the context of an online forum devoted to a band founded in 1962 for God's sake. These people have *lost the thread* (excuse the pun). But they're not scum and personally I just don't think thinking of them that way helps anyone. Not to say your anger and frustration is not understandable, but I feel like it's almost always more productive to call out the behavior than the person.

I have to agree particularly that everyone should focus on the behaviour or the issues rather than the person. Ad hominem attacks are a sign of a weakness in the argument - the person making them them can't refute by any other means what has been said and so resorts to insult which proves nothing.

Just to add that I think the disagreements between the band members are at least partially responsible for the arguments between the fans. And I may well be wrong about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes those arguments were deliberately provoked.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 04:14:33 AM by Angela Jones » Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9874


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2022, 07:22:00 AM »

I'm chiming in to say that I fully appreciate the work of this forum's admins, even beyond what words can express. They have saved the forum several times, though it has needed some harsh decisions at times. I have watched it all, and remember what really happened. There are several lies and untold truths around, indeed.
But Billy and Craig have done much more than simply save this, by now, "classic" forum. As a lifelong fan of the Beach Boys, the greatest cathedral of music in the latest 60 years, I believe that they have helped safeguarding the real Beach Boys legacy from some dangerous "revisionist" attempts. And now they are working to save the Howie matter from sinking into total disaster.

Thanks guys! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Thank you for saying that, that was very nice and much appreciated!
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Zenobi
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 100


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2022, 03:55:36 AM »

I just told the truth! Smiley
Logged
petsite
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 769



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2022, 03:28:51 AM »

Hell, I remember so many times talking with other BB crazies like me online. I would say something like HEY, I LIKE MIKE LOVE'S LYRICS TO GOOD VIBRATIONS BETTER THAN ASHER'S. Now you can agree or disagree, that is everyone's right. But some fans reacted to that statement as if I said YOU KNOW, ALL PUPPIES SHOULD BE KILLED FOR SPORT. THAT WOULD BE FUN! That is truly what I don't understand and has kept me away from so many boards of late. The 'net was a place to connect during the pandemic and it turned into FIGHT CLUB in some places. I lost friends because of some of things said.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9715



View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2022, 01:54:47 PM »

Not to go too much into a sidebar, but I've never run into many who really think the original lyrics to GV are better than Mike's. They sound quite awkward, actually. I get the reasoning behind using them on Brian's "Smile", but Mike's lyrics are not only arguably his best peak work as a hit-making lyricist, but also pointed a way to how he could have continued that going forward. He did to some degree on "Wild Honey" of course.

Anybody that would deny Mike was a good lyricist through most of the 60s, and often thereafter, just doesn't get it. I say that as someone who has obviously criticized other aspects of Mike's career plenty. But his lyrics through 1967 are key.

It's kind of funny; the way Mike talks about Brian's peak period being the early days through 1967, that's actually an equally if not more apt description of Mike's writing.

That's not to say he didn't write some great stuff well after that.

Anybody that trashes Mike's lyrics to "Good Vibrations" are just about "my team vs. your team" internet bulls**t.

Again, I say that as someone who still feels the last two things he did, "This Too Shall Pass" and that thing with "Locash", are among the worst things ever released that are even tangentially connected to the Beach Boys. Those things being atrocious don't make Mike's 60's lyrics worse.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
gfx
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.195 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!