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676412 Posts in 27291 Topics by 4032 Members - Latest Member: theangel August 10, 2022, 05:03:09 PM
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Author Topic: Howie Edelson Radio Interview on WFMU, Saturday July 2 11am EST  (Read 4507 times)
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« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2022, 01:03:36 PM »

You do realize that the actual real comments made by others that you're incorrectly paraphrasing and/or quoting are all available for everybody to read, right?

Yes, I'm aware. I linked to some of them directly.

I think this is the most frightening part: some of you can't even see how deranged your grievances are regarding Howie's interview...even when you're looking right at the posts/threads themselves. I mean you literally linked to a quote where Howie says the akin to "I'm gonna step away and get some fresh air" and allude to the idea that such a statement escalated the conflict and was "out of bounds". Do you realize how utterly insane that is?

Seriously step back and look at the thread....well actually I think three threads in total were flaying Howie alive - most notably the one where someone took the time to do a minute-by-minute breakdown of Howie's podcast interview (with bonus posts he made on the EH forum). The embarrassing thing is not how Howie (re)acted - the embarrassment lies solely with the "fans" who rained fire and brimstone down on a guy who was open and honest about his perspective of the band. As AGD just said (edit: don't want to misquote you AGD, I'm paraphrasing what you wrote), you all took some sentences, ripped them to shreds, and completely ignored what Howie was saying overall...3 threads and 10+ pages of bashing an insider. Unreal.

And I think the most astounding part is how many people from that forum piled on. Very few even defended the guy, and some who did were still flippant towards Howie. So he said some released mixes sucked - if we're all honest not everything this band released was pure freakin gold. Hell, Brian didn't even mix the early stereo tracks, Chuck Britz did (I believe), and not to knock Britz, but some of the mixes (where the bg vocals are panned far left, and other elements far right) are not the greatest representation of The Beach Boys in stereo. I think that was Howie's point.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 01:10:37 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2022, 03:20:09 PM »

I think this is the most frightening part: some of you can't even see how deranged your grievances are regarding Howie's interview...even when you're looking right at the posts/threads themselves. I mean you literally linked to a quote where Howie says the akin to "I'm gonna step away and get some fresh air" and allude to the idea that such a statement escalated the conflict and was "out of bounds". Do you realize how utterly insane that is?

I concede that, for whatever reason, older fans cannot hear what the younger fans hear in these new remasters. The same weirdness happened 10 years ago with the laughable autotune on TWGMTR and MiC. And then again 5 years ago when Steve Desper mistakenly shared what he thought was a vintage recording of Carl singing Sail On Sailor.*

If you can't hear the issue, then you won't understand why Howie got dogpiled after he admitted to pushing Mark "to go further out" and told fans to "stop bugging about records."
If you can hear the issue, then you will understand why Howie got dogpiled after he admitted to pushing Mark "to go further out" and told fans to "stop bugging about records."

I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that younger fans are more likely to have expertise in these matters. I've been working with DAWs alone and with friends for as long as I can remember. I know what it sounds like when someone tinkers too much, or not enough, and creates a mess of digital artifacts. Those artifacts aren't a big deal in modern pop music anymore. But they are a big deal if your goal is to preserve the magic of a legendary '60s rock band.

I also know, based on reading Smiley for over a decade, that there's a lot of inanities involved within BRI and the record business in general. And that some of the most active Smiley posters can recite dozens of Mike Love interviews verbatim, and yet understand very little about the craft of music composition and production. *shrug*

* (Did we ever settle on a consensus, or are there still some hold-outs who believe that it truly was Carl singing? Haha.)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 03:42:30 PM by terrei » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2022, 04:30:15 PM »

The issue isn't even that people disagree with the mixes! I even said above that there are issues that I hear in the new mixes. The problem is that people are so completely disrespectful anymore to those who work for a living on these tracks. If people have issues with the new mixes they can plainly and courteously talk about them with Howie...he was literally a member of the EH forum and was likely very willing to discuss the mixes. But before he even had the chance people "dogpiled" on him for the interview. I've never seen an administrator of a forum act so petulant toward an insider. And now you're berating Howie because he brought up his wife and kids in a post? Come on. The dogpile is the issue.

If nobody likes the new remixes they can choose from a plethora of available original mixes on streaming, digital download, or physical media. This is why the whole "preserve the magic of a legendary '60s rock band" is a non-issue. As in, some people hear that magic in the '97 stereo Pet Sounds. Others hear that magic in the original mono (or even the CATP mono vinyl PS). I find this magic in some of the new stereo remixes. If people hear that magic in the original stereo mixes by Chuck Britz, that's awesome! No one is stopping anyone from accessing those mixes officially.

How many people are going to casually buy the new set from Wal-Mart to play at a BBQ this summer, and then turn it off because of some compression on some songs or digital artifacts on Surfin Safari? Probably absolutely none. But how many kids are going to first hear the magic of the band from this set? Probably a lot. And there is nothing in the new mixes that detracts one from hearing Brian's, Carl's, Mike's, Dennis', Dave's, Blondie's, Ricky's, Bruce's, Al's, etc magic on those songs. Are there issues? yes. Is it worth calling for people to be fired? Is it worth berating one's parenting skills? Is it worth tearing apart seemingly every sentence of a casual podcast interview? Not at all.

Btw, you know how many people here (including myself) have read books upon books about sound engineering, about Brian's production, songwriting etc? I have boxes of books about the stuff. I've read Lambert's book front to back. The Beach Boys music inspired me so much to become a musician over a decade ago and I am currently blessed to be able to record/mix music as part of my job. And yeah, I can also recite some of Mike Love's crass interviews regarding Brian. Don't assume so much about people around here. Whether you were referring to me or others, it doesn't matter: a lot of people here have this stuff in common. Nobody joined this forum to waste their time bitching about Mike Love. We are all here because we love music. And sadly human nature ends up interfering with that love.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 05:28:54 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2022, 05:44:58 PM »

Great post! I completely agree.
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« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2022, 05:53:26 PM »

The continuing attempts to personally attack and smear Howie and Mark over this release shows the true character of the places (or place) where it's coming from. No matter how much someone dislikes these mixes, to say publicly that a three-time Grammy winning engineer should be fired over mixes "fans" don't like is absolutely one of the most disgusting things I've read in this whole scene. And considering where this kind of pure hatred (or whatever it is) is coming from, and the history of similar comments, I think it says most of what people would need to know about those circles of "fans".

And I agree with Howie and the others who mentioned it, the lack of anyone speaking up in their defense is pretty damn sad. Barely anyone there seems to speak up in their defense. But maybe in some places like that either people are afraid to speak up or not allowed to speak up like that.

Howie and Mark are the heroes here, the people who know understand that.

If people don't like the mixes and it upsets them enough to drive them to personally attack people, join the boycott crew over there.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 05:54:49 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2022, 06:01:29 PM »

I also know, based on reading Smiley for over a decade, that there's a lot of inanities involved within BRI and the record business in general. And that some of the most active Smiley posters can recite dozens of Mike Love interviews verbatim, and yet understand very little about the craft of music composition and production. *shrug*

The people I know who have been posting in this thread alone have decades of experience recording, writing, producing, and doing music in general as a profession. Many of the active posters on Smiley in general share similar backgrounds and know what they're talking about having been involved in recording, playing, writing, etc music as well. I think you may mean the other place.
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2022, 06:14:38 PM »

Yup. I mean, I’ve talked about having been recording my own band for 21 years…but I have longer experience working with others AND this is what I majored in in college as well! Hell, right now this and disability checks are what’s putting (some) food on the table!

Assumptions are a hell of a thing
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« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2022, 06:24:39 PM »

"terrei" -

Stay down.

You're not going to out-wit me, you're not going to out-"mean" me.
You're flailing.

Stay down.


But he must unleash the wrath of the Almighty Maltshop Memories Nerds on us all!
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« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2022, 06:28:37 PM »

The continuing attempts to personally attack and smear Howie and Mark over this release shows the true character of the places (or place) where it's coming from. No matter how much someone dislikes these mixes, to say publicly that a three-time Grammy winning engineer should be fired over mixes "fans" don't like is absolutely one of the most disgusting things I've read in this whole scene. And considering where this kind of pure hatred (or whatever it is) is coming from, and the history of similar comments, I think it says most of what people would need to know about those circles of "fans".

And I agree with Howie and the others who mentioned it, the lack of anyone speaking up in their defense is pretty damn sad. Barely anyone there seems to speak up in their defense. But maybe in some places like that either people are afraid to speak up or not allowed to speak up like that.

Howie and Mark are the heroes here, the people who know understand that.

If people don't like the mixes and it upsets them enough to drive them to personally attack people, join the boycott crew over there.

Never mind the fact that some of them keep putting “engineers” in quotes.  That’s the type of sh*t I’m talking about.  I’d like to see their resume and have it compared to Mark’s. I wonder who has more Grammys. I wonder how good of a job they’re do working with 50 + year old tapes, some recently discovered and hadn’t been taken care of the same way the stuff in the “vaults” have.  

Oh and another thing…some (not all, not most…SOME)of the complaints about the final sound actually stem from issues in the (re)mastering process, NOT the mixing! Saying that because if someone is going to be highly insulting towards someone who has been doing this for many years and start acting like they know more, they might want to actually brush up on what’s actually what.
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« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2022, 06:29:14 PM »

"terrei" -

Stay down.

You're not going to out-wit me, you're not going to out-"mean" me.
You're flailing.

Stay down.


But he must unleash the wrath of the Almighty Maltshop Memories Nerds on us all!

I think you just titled the song I’m working on …thanks 😆
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« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2022, 06:32:57 PM »

Billy doing doo-wop? Grin
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2022, 06:43:54 PM »

https://twitter.com/emilybrooksnews/status/1476714669293375490?s=21&t=dXN-MiaGjNvZrdHUlP-ZkA

Remember when this Twitter thread went viral?  Look at some of the responses. There is STILL a problem with how the BB are perceived. I know we fans think “who cares? Those snooty snobs are the ones missing out.” And maybe that’s true to an extent.

But this band DESERVES to be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles.  In order to have a chance of that happening while it still matters, you can’t really emphasize the Mike Love-styled way they’ve presented themselves in the last several decades (even if fans are now OK with it). I’m sorry fans’ feathers got ruffled with how Howie explained it, but he was speaking truth. And it is this fresh mindset that resulted in Feel Flows.  I’d rather have that the way it is presented than not have it all. To think that some don’t want that kind of stuff because of biases or upset feelings kinda makes me sad.
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« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2022, 06:46:43 PM »

Billy doing doo-wop? Grin

All kidding aside, I actually have previously!
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« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2022, 06:49:48 PM »

https://twitter.com/emilybrooksnews/status/1476714669293375490?s=21&t=dXN-MiaGjNvZrdHUlP-ZkA

Remember when this Twitter thread went viral?  Look at some of the responses. There is STILL a problem with how the BB are perceived. I know we fans think “who cares? Those snooty snobs are the ones missing out.” And maybe that’s true to an extent.

But this band DESERVES to be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles.  In order to have a chance of that happening while it still matters, you can’t really emphasize the Mike Love-styled way they’ve presented themselves in the last several decades (even if fans are now OK with it). I’m sorry fans’ feathers got ruffled with how Howie explained it, but he was speaking truth. And it is this fresh mindset that resulted in Feel Flows.  I’d rather have that the way it is presented than not have it all. To think that some don’t want that kind of stuff because of biases or upset feelings kinda makes me sad.

Completely agree
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“My cape is at the dry cleaners,” he explained.

I’m writing a book of online BB fandom. It’s called “Never Trust a Bookie Who Sleeps on his Mom’s Couch”
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« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2022, 08:57:38 AM »

https://twitter.com/emilybrooksnews/status/1476714669293375490?s=21&t=dXN-MiaGjNvZrdHUlP-ZkA

Remember when this Twitter thread went viral?  Look at some of the responses. There is STILL a problem with how the BB are perceived. I know we fans think “who cares? Those snooty snobs are the ones missing out.” And maybe that’s true to an extent.

But this band DESERVES to be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles.  In order to have a chance of that happening while it still matters, you can’t really emphasize the Mike Love-styled way they’ve presented themselves in the last several decades (even if fans are now OK with it). I’m sorry fans’ feathers got ruffled with how Howie explained it, but he was speaking truth. And it is this fresh mindset that resulted in Feel Flows.  I’d rather have that the way it is presented than not have it all. To think that some don’t want that kind of stuff because of biases or upset feelings kinda makes me sad.

Completely agree

I agree too. It is the truth that since the aftermath of Kokomo, the band name and image changed and became almost a multiple personality situation. And the mass media, marketers, and promoters often want to compartmentalize and homogenize a product in order to sell that product. After Kokomo you had the Beach Boys playing the hits on stage with dancers like a revue versus the image of the band who just saw Pet Sounds reissued on CD and which appealed to a different set of fans with different tastes. The GV box set with the Smile material and deeper cuts further split the image. After Mike got the license and Brian toured on his own, the divide was complete.

As much as it could have turned into one, the C50 tour could easily have become a sappy "Malt Shop Memories" affair, but miraculously it did not, and the music and the guys on stage together transcended all else. That WAS the same group who did Surfin Safari, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sail On Sailor, and Kokomo on the same stage together for a brief moment in time. Everyone got what they wanted, in terms of the fans the way it seemed. No shmaltz, no cheese, no Malt Shop Memories nostalgia in 2012. And there was even new Beach Boys music to dig.

I'll still say that one of the issues for the brand, and I say that carefully, was how people outside the fan bubble we're in didn't know which Beach Boys they were getting, and a lot of great music had been buried and lost for years as a result.

The Feel Flows set was definitely an attempt to bring attention to that kind of music which had been lost through the years, and try to overcome the multiple personality issue that has been on the band's branding for decades.

I agree, if some don't want that kind of stuff due to biases or upset feelings (or perhaps jealousy), it's pretty sad.
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« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2022, 10:30:52 AM »

https://twitter.com/emilybrooksnews/status/1476714669293375490?s=21&t=dXN-MiaGjNvZrdHUlP-ZkA

Remember when this Twitter thread went viral?  Look at some of the responses. There is STILL a problem with how the BB are perceived. I know we fans think “who cares? Those snooty snobs are the ones missing out.” And maybe that’s true to an extent.

But this band DESERVES to be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles.  In order to have a chance of that happening while it still matters, you can’t really emphasize the Mike Love-styled way they’ve presented themselves in the last several decades (even if fans are now OK with it). I’m sorry fans’ feathers got ruffled with how Howie explained it, but he was speaking truth. And it is this fresh mindset that resulted in Feel Flows.  I’d rather have that the way it is presented than not have it all. To think that some don’t want that kind of stuff because of biases or upset feelings kinda makes me sad.

Completely agree

I agree too. It is the truth that since the aftermath of Kokomo, the band name and image changed and became almost a multiple personality situation. And the mass media, marketers, and promoters often want to compartmentalize and homogenize a product in order to sell that product. After Kokomo you had the Beach Boys playing the hits on stage with dancers like a revue versus the image of the band who just saw Pet Sounds reissued on CD and which appealed to a different set of fans with different tastes. The GV box set with the Smile material and deeper cuts further split the image. After Mike got the license and Brian toured on his own, the divide was complete.

As much as it could have turned into one, the C50 tour could easily have become a sappy "Malt Shop Memories" affair, but miraculously it did not, and the music and the guys on stage together transcended all else. That WAS the same group who did Surfin Safari, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sail On Sailor, and Kokomo on the same stage together for a brief moment in time. Everyone got what they wanted, in terms of the fans the way it seemed. No shmaltz, no cheese, no Malt Shop Memories nostalgia in 2012. And there was even new Beach Boys music to dig.

I'll still say that one of the issues for the brand, and I say that carefully, was how people outside the fan bubble we're in didn't know which Beach Boys they were getting, and a lot of great music had been buried and lost for years as a result.

The Feel Flows set was definitely an attempt to bring attention to that kind of music which had been lost through the years, and try to overcome the multiple personality issue that has been on the band's branding for decades.

I agree, if some don't want that kind of stuff due to biases or upset feelings (or perhaps jealousy), it's pretty sad.

And to be sure, the BB aren’t the only legacy act to have this duality: Paul McCartney has this to a certain degree (in concert, he is the Proxy Beatles delivering the crowd pleasing hits but off-stage he is the consummate artistic risk taker with his classical works, his work with Youth, and his studio albums). But certainly, the BB became the poster boys for this strange duality.
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« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2022, 12:11:09 PM »

Speaking of Paul, the online comments I’ve seen about his recent show have been around the same level of Brian’s . This is kind of uncharted territory as this is the first generation of musicians to be active and still relevant at their age. I remember The Beach Boys and McCartney seeming old and washed up in the 80s… and they were way younger than generation who came after that are still active today. Look at someone like Metallica… those are guys around 60. Debuted on the 80s and still kicking multiple varieties of ass onstage. Chuck Berry stayed on til the end, but his recording career was comparatively brief. How many bands started adding auxiliary members as they got older, which wasn’t really a thing for following generations. Compare Dave Grohl in his mid 50s to pretty much anybody who debuted in the 70s at the same age. There might be a time where people Paul and Brian’s current age won’t age as “bad” onstage.
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« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2022, 09:23:24 PM »

Speaking of Paul, the online comments I’ve seen about his recent show have been around the same level of Brian’s . This is kind of uncharted territory as this is the first generation of musicians to be active and still relevant at their age. I remember The Beach Boys and McCartney seeming old and washed up in the 80s… and they were way younger than generation who came after that are still active today. Look at someone like Metallica… those are guys around 60. Debuted on the 80s and still kicking multiple varieties of ass onstage. Chuck Berry stayed on til the end, but his recording career was comparatively brief. How many bands started adding auxiliary members as they got older, which wasn’t really a thing for following generations. Compare Dave Grohl in his mid 50s to pretty much anybody who debuted in the 70s at the same age. There might be a time where people Paul and Brian’s current age won’t age as “bad” onstage.


Yeah, Paul’s voice hasn’t been good for a number of years, but his bass, guitar, drums, and piano chops are still as good as ever. And people go to see him now for the spectacle, those songs, and to be in the same room as a legend.  Paul is probably the best example of what you’re describing. It’s like people are aging differently from generation to generation.
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2022, 03:48:38 AM »

FWIW, several posts at the Nearest Faraway Place from AGD show some remorse and regret for how things went down in the SoS thread. I post links rather than quote or paraphrase:

https://endlessharmony.boards.net/thread/2058/over-smiley?page=2&scrollTo=56362

(Interesting that this thread purports to be locked, but is being used to surreptitiously express some perspectives that are seemingly meant to be kept away from full public scrutiny.)

Earlier in that same thread AGD also expresses what's clearly a UK-centric notion of the history of "BB fandom" and its "fall from grace" that seems to be built around the idea that the UK fan contingent is/should be the "lead dog" in a semi-unspoken hierarchy; and when that was somehow challenged, it caused the rifts that are now so prevalent...and that have erupted recently around aspects of the Sounds of Summer release.

No question that the material at Bellagio 10452 is a superb collection of facts/info, but--that said--the behaviors taken that caused the schism and the entirely justifiable need to expel those who ran the gauntlet in an effort to impose a highly revisionist interpretation of the band's history has sadly cast a not inconsiderable pall over that magnificent achievement. In fairness it should be noted that AGD has, at a number of points in the recent upheaval concerning SoS, attempted to be a moderating influence...but with little success. A good bit of that stems from the fact that when you create a monster, it becomes very difficult to control it--ask Dr. Frankenstein about that...

I find GF's historical overview of the BBs oscillating reception in the world and the double-edged sword of their still-evolving legacy to be a nicely nuanced perspective, even as it tends to underplay the essential ongoing tension in the band between Brian and Mike which still remains the tricky fulcrum that Azoff etal have to work around as they try to give the band's long-term legacy the softest-possible landing on an airstrip that is still not 100% smooth. Given all that, it's clear that Howie has been a superb ambassador for the band--a fact that AGD acknowledges as he laments the behavior that drove him away from the Nearest Faraway Place--and the success of SoS in the marketplace is a signpost that those in charge of charting the current strategy for cementing the band's legacy are by and large doing an excellent job. I hope that things will rapidly calm down and get aside so that the next phase of this most worthy effort--the CATP/Holland set--can be the set that everyone wants it to be: a reflection and revelation of the band's most intense period of all-inclusive creativity. That seems like the key missing piece to get put into place, and we should clear the deck so that the folks working on pulling that together can put all of their skill and attention into making that happen.
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« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2022, 07:17:32 AM »



The thing that is insulting about that thread is you had an admin responding to the OP saying “guys, we chased him off” with basically “good! He deserved it!”.  The rancor never should have gotten to that level and, by example, it was cheered on by aforementioned admin. You don’t like the mixes, fine.  But the dog piling got uncomfortably close to a cancellation attempt and that’s disturbing.
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« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2022, 02:14:40 PM »



The thing that is insulting about that thread is you had an admin responding to the OP saying “guys, we chased him off” with basically “good! He deserved it!”.  The rancor never should have gotten to that level and, by example, it was cheered on by aforementioned admin. You don’t like the mixes, fine.  But the dog piling got uncomfortably close to a cancellation attempt and that’s disturbing.

Exactly
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« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2022, 05:48:15 AM »

Several things can be true at the same time: you can be critical of how the audio mixes have been handled on recent Beach Boys projects without simultaneously dragging Howie and his team over the coals about it.  But part of the silliness of all this is we have two Beach Boys forums at odds with each other which most likely perpetuates a lot of this dysfunction. 
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« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2022, 06:48:20 AM »

Several things can be true at the same time: you can be critical of how the audio mixes have been handled on recent Beach Boys projects without simultaneously dragging Howie and his team over the coals about it.  But part of the silliness of all this is we have two Beach Boys forums at odds with each other which most likely perpetuates a lot of this dysfunction. 

Pardon me for butting in again, but part of the "silliness" was the legitimate need to expel folks who then created their own forum, which perpetuates and reinforces the dysfunction. It should be instructive to us that they began all that on their own, and observations here (coupled with an escalating sense of disbelief...) followed. Check the timeline, and this will be confirmed. Many of us have discussed in various tonalities--from sympathy to black humor to derision to outright contempt--the excesses that occur there, despite many intelligent and highly knowledgeable posters: this most recent manifestation is really just more of the same, but at such a level of extremity that even their Dear Leader has come to see the incident as being tragically catastrophic. All of us reap what we sow...

The key going forward for those who advocate for the band as being right at the top of the list for most seminai, influential, historically significant entities in the history of popular music is to be thrilled that a record company would invest in another 80-track compilation and follow up with a(nother) legacy box focused on a period where the band had no hits. Billy's right: we've won the war--but some people just like fighting so much that they can't bring themselves to stop.
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« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2022, 08:18:05 AM »

Several things can be true at the same time: you can be critical of how the audio mixes have been handled on recent Beach Boys projects without simultaneously dragging Howie and his team over the coals about it.  But part of the silliness of all this is we have two Beach Boys forums at odds with each other which most likely perpetuates a lot of this dysfunction. 

Pardon me for butting in again, but part of the "silliness" was the legitimate need to expel folks who then created their own forum, which perpetuates and reinforces the dysfunction. It should be instructive to us that they began all that on their own, and observations here (coupled with an escalating sense of disbelief...) followed. Check the timeline, and this will be confirmed. Many of us have discussed in various tonalities--from sympathy to black humor to derision to outright contempt--the excesses that occur there, despite many intelligent and highly knowledgeable posters: this most recent manifestation is really just more of the same, but at such a level of extremity that even their Dear Leader has come to see the incident as being tragically catastrophic. All of us reap what we sow...

I'll admit that I have never been that heavily invested in this squabble so I will have to take your word for it.  And of course there have been posters who have been out of line before.  However I think there is a lot to unpack here.  All I can say is that I've been posting regularly to both forums and have had no major issue with either one.  And there have been plenty of ridiculous comments (as well as good comments) coming from both forums on a variety of topics.  It wouldn't surprise me if folks are taking things a bit too personally as usual. 

The key going forward for those who advocate for the band as being right at the top of the list for most seminai, influential, historically significant entities in the history of popular music is to be thrilled that a record company would invest in another 80-track compilation and follow up with a(nother) legacy box focused on a period where the band had no hits. Billy's right: we've won the war--but some people just like fighting so much that they can't bring themselves to stop.

I think you can be happy to see that the band is still getting attention and still having products released all this time later, but that doesn't mean that any of us are required to automatically be satisfied with the products coming out.  People are allowed to offer criticisms (preferably constructively) if they are unhappy with the product (such as noting the awkwardness in audio of some of the new mixes).  That doesn't definitively mean they are ungrateful.  I agree that people are going a little overboard with some of the criticisms with the sound quality but it isn't completely an illegitimate complaint.  However I will completely agree that harrassing Howie and the team no matter how you feel about these products is completely wrong-headed and ridiculous.
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« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2022, 11:58:57 AM »

Quote
I think you can be happy to see that the band is still getting attention and still having products released all this time later, but that doesn't mean that any of us are required to automatically be satisfied with the products coming out.  People are allowed to offer criticisms (preferably constructively) if they are unhappy with the product (such as noting the awkwardness in audio of some of the new mixes).  That doesn't definitively mean they are ungrateful.  I agree that people are going a little overboard with some of the criticisms with the sound quality but it isn't completely an illegitimate complaint.  However I will completely agree that harrassing Howie and the team no matter how you feel about these products is completely wrong-headed and ridiculous.
agreed on all points here
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