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Author Topic: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced  (Read 15843 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #225 on: June 20, 2022, 01:02:28 PM »

I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.

My thing is that there are other artists/catalogs/films, etc. where there are tons of items/versions that are just completely unavailable. I again refer to the "Star Wars" example (and even that is becoming more moot as time goes by and finding high quality "original" versions of those old films is pretty easy if you look), where I have no problem if someone *gets into* those films by seeing the futzed-with versions with new CGI and whatnot, but it is problematic that they can't then also go back, if they become a true/big/hardcore fan, and watch the *original* versions.

With the BB catalog, with some random exceptions, you can find most original mono and stereo mixes. Anybody who becomes a big enough fan to want to find that stuff can find it, usually with plenty of options in terms of format, resolution, etc.

It's the wild west out there on streaming services as far as mixes/versions. I'm surprised places like Spotify are as clean as they are in terms of the BB catalog, where most stuff shockingly actually *is* marked as mono or stereo or remix, and they've usually gone out of their way to mark the year of the remix as well.

Again, I like some remixes more than others. I've criticized them sometimes in the past. I think the PS stereo mix is great, one of the best. I said way back in 2007 or whenever that "Warmth of the Sun" comp came out that some of the remixes of stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder" were too wet/too much echo/reverb. But I can't think of a remix that would turn off a new fan from liking a SONG/RECORDING. And I think a stronger case can be made that it would net additional new/young fans who want something a bit more punchy or opened-up in terms of mix (again, we have to speak in generalities about remixes; they don't all serve the same purpose or are made with the same exact ethos, as Wirestone discussed previously).
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« Reply #226 on: June 20, 2022, 01:04:49 PM »

Remixes, alternate versions and such have been going on compilations for decades. It used to be that you wouldn’t know how many tracks on a compilation would be altered until you’d already purchased it or read a review) Madonna’s 1990 compilation release was pretty much all remixes and alternate mixes (and weren’t even labeled as such , minus a vague “mastered in Q-Sound” label) . Those mixes became what would be played on the radio for about a decade or so; these days they’re pretty much forgotten*. A year prior, Robert Palmer did the same thing. Likewise, the fact that a majority were different versions wasn’t mentioned anywhere except in the liners.

Be glad things are clearly labeled these days (although the occasional mislabel does happen , at least your warned of its going to be different from the original)!


*The version of Vogue on that comp was the one that became a hit, but the original mix on the Dick Tracy soundtrack is the only one that gets played on Sirius, for example.
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« Reply #227 on: June 20, 2022, 01:08:30 PM »

I can see both of your points. Hell, I’ve been making the same arguments about how the originals aren’t being replaced. And I like most of the new mixes.

That said, I’m realizing that Pet Sounds and Wild Honey aside, I do strongly prefer the original mono. Its not just limited to the Beach Boys either.

My thing is that there are other artists/catalogs/films, etc. where there are tons of items/versions that are just completely unavailable. I again refer to the "Star Wars" example (and even that is becoming more moot as time goes by and finding high quality "original" versions of those old films is pretty easy if you look), where I have no problem if someone *gets into* those films by seeing the futzed-with versions with new CGI and whatnot, but it is problematic that they can't then also go back, if they become a true/big/hardcore fan, and watch the *original* versions.

With the BB catalog, with some random exceptions, you can find most original mono and stereo mixes. Anybody who becomes a big enough fan to want to find that stuff can find it, usually with plenty of options in terms of format, resolution, etc.

It's the wild west out there on streaming services as far as mixes/versions. I'm surprised places like Spotify are as clean as they are in terms of the BB catalog, where most stuff shockingly actually *is* marked as mono or stereo or remix, and they've usually gone out of their way to mark the year of the remix as well.

Again, I like some remixes more than others. I've criticized them sometimes in the past. I think the PS stereo mix is great, one of the best. I said way back in 2007 or whenever that "Warmth of the Sun" comp came out that some of the remixes of stuff like "Please Let Me Wonder" were too wet/too much echo/reverb. But I can't think of a remix that would turn off a new fan from liking a SONG/RECORDING. And I think a stronger case can be made that it would net additional new/young fans who want something a bit more punchy or opened-up in terms of mix (again, we have to speak in generalities about remixes; they don't all serve the same purpose or are made with the same exact ethos, as Wirestone discussed previously).

Also, on Spotify at least, the mono and stereo versions are on the same album; it’s pretty easy to make a playlist of the version of the album you want too so if you wanted a hybrid of different mixes to make your “ideal” version, you can )
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« Reply #228 on: June 20, 2022, 01:25:34 PM »

Let us also not forget that the band and the people working on these remixes over the years *do* care (the band members to varying degrees at varying points of course), and their attention to these things has been noted.

For instance, when presented with the PS stereo remix, it was reported back then that Carl (and possibly others) took issue with the missing bits that couldn't be included (e.g. Mike's WIBN bridge vocal, the double tracked vocals; the things that Brian had overdubbed during mixing). Presumably the reasoning was explained and obviously the PS set eventually came out.

That PS stereo mix had a particular ethos behind it.

These SOS remixes have another ethos; different but also valid.

I guess what I'm saying is that these guys putting the set together know the drums on "Marcella" sound different. That's the point. Obviously.

Just like they knew everybody would notice it was Brian singing the bridge on WIBN back in 1996/97.
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« Reply #229 on: June 20, 2022, 01:28:50 PM »

Besides, you ignored my point that the apparent intention is to make The Beach Boys’ original recordings more commercial for today’s audiences? As if this is preferable to presenting their historically important  and artistically relevant original recordings (yes, recordings).

The bg vocals on the original stereo 'Don't Worry Baby' are panned far right, the lead vocal is panned far left. I do not see how such a mix would be sonically preferable in an age where headphones with good stereo quality are a norm in society, 5.1 systems are more and more common in homes, and basically your average home stereo is a bit more complex than it was in 1964. My critique of the mix is not me sh*tting on Chuck Britz, it is me just stating the obvious. Things were mixed differently back then for the technology of their time.

Nowadays we have headphones that can simulate 5.1 3D surround. And as I said in a previous post, such technology is dominating the headphone market right now (and will continue to do so).

The Beatles' Abbey Road was remixed and it hit #3 on the billboard charts. That is one of many successful examples of taking a vintage album and remixing it. Thus I think the industry realizes the money-making potential with remixing songs from classic artists. If an artist makes more money there is more of a chance of future releases (which is clearly what the goal is for The Beach Boys). I highly doubt the Beatles original mono/stereo work will be forgotten to the winds of time thanks to the new remixes. Instead, it's just a way to market old music (not meaning to offend when I call it "old", it is just a fact) to a new generation. It's not meant to replace. It is meant to compliment. It is meant to draw in new fans who are used to modern songs being very complex in the mix. It's the same way with The Beach Boys.

Anyways, this is just proving my point about the nitpicking. If it's not the treble making these tracks supposedly completely unlistenable it is the new mixes that are sacrilege to the memory of Carl and Dennis, if it's not Howie being "brash" and "arrogant" it is that the original mono and stereo should be the only way these tracks are presented to the public. Next we're gonna hear whining about how the original SoS album cover was photoshopped to hell and how it's tarnishing the history of the discography.

It's so tiresome to read all the nitpicking negativity. It is why I've become such a pessimistic prick on this forum. Brian records anything genuine and it's always torn apart by "fans". Mark and Alan create a cool new remix that shows us more of what's in the mix and they're flayed alive. Howie does a podcast interview and he's still be ripped apart on EH.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 01:30:17 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2022, 02:26:33 PM »

Also want to clarify when I say "sonically preferable" - I personally prefer mono in many circumstances. I prefer some remixes over originals. I prefer some original stereo over the rest. But it doesn't matter if I like it for it's artistic merit or if it is sonically better (subjectively, to my ears). What matters is the people who are being marketed to. And I'm not referring to the 20 year olds on forums (or YouTube comment sections) who 100% prefer the original mono mixes. I'm talking about the 20 year olds who aren't fans yet.

Those fans may not know the history behind the old mixes. They may not understand the concept of mono. They may even prefer the mono sound. But those in charge of these releases (be they those on the committee putting these sets together or the record execs green-lighting the project) know that currently remixes are selling (see the Beatles mixes that hit the billboard charts). Thus, this is about what is potentially sonically preferable to those 20 year olds that this is being marketed towards.

It is also for those of us willing to explore something new, for the sake of hearing something a little differently than we're used to...Us fans who probably don't want to buy new sets with the same remasters for the umpteenth time, but want to be surprised by something new found in the mix.

And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.
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« Reply #231 on: June 21, 2022, 05:13:31 AM »

Apologies if this has already been covered but has anyone picked up the vinyl version of this compilation?  How does it sound compared to the CD and streaming/digital flavors?
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« Reply #232 on: June 21, 2022, 09:33:55 AM »

Nowadays we have headphones that can simulate 5.1 3D surround. And as I said in a previous post, such technology is dominating the headphone market right now (and will continue to do so).
I'm waiting for affordable headphones that replicate the sound of a home theater space the way Virtual Reality replicates a large visual space. In the meantime, can Beach Boys songs get a binaural mix to produce a nice surround effect in headphones?
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« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2022, 09:52:02 AM »

Listened to this on a shitty iPhone speaker, Howie, Mark, and Alan did a great job in mastering this!
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« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2022, 11:28:42 AM »

Quote
And overall, I imagine this is about an entity that has to make money in order to continue to release rarity sets.
exactly. That’s why it pissed me off when I read about a boycott from a idiot who kept trolling Howie on Facebook, and my good buddy/bandmate Jay got lambasted over there for pointing this same thing out. I mean, sh*t, don’t buy it but let those of us who want to hear previously unreleased stuff get it.
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« Reply #235 on: June 21, 2022, 07:19:41 PM »

Really wish "Still Crusin" or "Somewhere near Japan" made the cut for this album.

A guy can dream.

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« Reply #236 on: June 22, 2022, 07:35:30 AM »

Really wish "Still Crusin" or "Somewhere near Japan" made the cut for this album.

A guy can dream.


If or when they ever rework the material from that album, it desperately needs a remix. Especially "Still Cruisin'", which sounds really thin and slight. Some of that's unavoidable with the s**tty electronic drums and whatnot, but I think a remix on that material could help quite a bit.

I'm not troubled the material isn't on "Sounds of Summer"; I wouldn't have minded certainly. But I'd like to think that archival program could evolve to the point where they could re-tackle the "Still Cruisin'" album, remove the oldies, add era-appropriate tracks to fill it out, and give the thing a nice remix, and be able to do a project like that without it being either an ignored curio nor a huge marketing project either.

I believe there are outtakes from that era that might be better than much of what made it onto the album. Let's remember that Al's "Don't Fight the Sea" from his "Postcards" album comes mostly from a "Still Cruisin'"-era recording.
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« Reply #237 on: June 24, 2022, 05:19:51 AM »

OK I picked up the 3 CD set, and I am happy to finally hear the correct mixes of the tracks.

However, I will argue that I should -not- have to buy a set if I already pay money for streaming services in order to hear what is promised in the album's track list.

While I am a fan of the band's music, when I pay for services I am a customer not a spiritual confidant who is required to see the bigger picture. If a set promises special mixes of tracks, and those are absent from the set I am streaming, that is a mistake that MUST be rectified. That has soured my enjoyment of the set, and I feel I have been taken advantage of.
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« Reply #238 on: June 24, 2022, 06:48:40 AM »

OK I picked up the 3 CD set, and I am happy to finally hear the correct mixes of the tracks.

However, I will argue that I should -not- have to buy a set if I already pay money for streaming services in order to hear what is promised in the album's track list.

While I am a fan of the band's music, when I pay for services I am a customer not a spiritual confidant who is required to see the bigger picture. If a set promises special mixes of tracks, and those are absent from the set I am streaming, that is a mistake that MUST be rectified. That has soured my enjoyment of the set, and I feel I have been taken advantage of.


You gotta talk to the streaming service. There are probably few folks who fully know all of ins and outs of how digital music is provided to these streaming services from distributors, but considering that other services like Spotify seemed to get this stuff out without a hitch (and properly labeled as well), I'd say your streaming service (I believe you mentioned it was Amazon?) is the one who is futzing things up.

I'd also say, based on my experience, Amazon is not really highly regarded for their audio or video streaming services (either the stuff that comes with Prime, or the stuff that requires additional subscription payment such as Amazon Music). Most folks I've run into, and myself as well, seem to have Amazon Prime to get the good shipping times/deals, and whatever audio or video comes along with that is just an little extra. If you're using a music streaming service as your primary method of listening to music, I've heard far better things about Spotify. Even YouTube Music seems to have better labeling and interface. I don't use any streaming services as my primary method of listening, but I've used them all at one point or another.
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« Reply #239 on: June 24, 2022, 07:41:11 AM »

Agreed about Amazon. Apple Music is usually my go-to. And it's basically just because I can easily upload any albums that aren't available on Apple Music (mostly Beach Boys bootlegs, and other rarity items from artists) and have them available on all my Apple devices. Spotify is hands-down the best for discovering new music, Apple Music is the best streaming service for music library management, imo.

But that being said, even if things are properly labeled, depending on the codec, depending on the means of listening, depending on the EQ settings, any kind of music is going to sound different from service to service. That's just the nature of having many different ways to listen to music these days. And sadly sometimes it also means streaming services will get lazy and mis-label things (very annoying when that happens, though it's been kinda rare for me to encounter that recently).
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« Reply #240 on: June 25, 2022, 05:20:28 PM »

SOS #52 on this weeks UK album chart
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« Reply #241 on: June 25, 2022, 05:24:17 PM »

Early figures showing an impressive showing on Billboard.

Sales of 15-20k this week, good for a possible top 30 or 40 finish
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« Reply #242 on: July 10, 2022, 12:22:39 PM »

No desire to restart any debates here, but I finally got a chance to really dig into this set and I just want to weigh in on how much I am enjoying it, especially Marcella and Mess of Help. I've long believed, rationally or not, that my vinyl copy of So Tough sounded just way, way better than the CD. More kick, more punch, more life. Maybe a little muddier, too, but in a good way—some rock music, especially from the 70s, benefits from a little bit of sludge, in my opinion. Maybe a fringe opinion, but to take an example from another band, I’ve always preferred the undeniably muddy original of Derek and the Domino’s Layla album to the much cleaned up and clarified CD version. But of all the records in my collection, only with Carl and the Passions and Dylan's Blonde on Blonde have I ever felt so strongly that the vinyl was unquestionably, if somewhat indefinably, superior to any digital version I’ve heard. These new mixes, of course, are very, very different from the originals, but to me, they nail the *spirit* of them, and so while I'll surely turn to the vinyl when I want to rock out to So Tough with the dedication it deserves, these will be haunting my summer spotify playlists for sure. So I just want to say thanks to all the people who worked so hard on this set. I, for one--and I totally understand that there are other perspectives--found the spirit and attitude of these new mixes to be a welcome surprise. I also love the new mixes of the songs from The Beach Boys Today. I was always a little disappointed with the first stereo remix of that album. Unlike the Pet Sounds or Wild Honey stereo mixes, I felt like something of the spirit of the mono was really lost. Well, I still think that, and honestly, I think that there’s something about the Beach Boys Today that will only ever really sound right to me in mono. But in my humble opinion, the new mixes get closer by going further, if that makes any sense!

Anyway, late to the party I know, but just wanted to share some positivity and how much I’m digging this new light on some old favorites Smiley
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« Reply #243 on: July 10, 2022, 04:39:18 PM »

I was excited to hear Al allude to the idea that the new CATP/Holland set will have new remixes (he made it sound like the albums would be remixed). Al could be wrong about that (and perhaps I just misunderstood him) and perhaps we're just getting a remaster. But seriously, I would rather hear a new mix of these tracks since I can listen to the original mixes on Apple Music or in my own stash of CDs currently.

I really really dug that new Marcella too. Makes me happy they're trying new things.
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« Reply #244 on: July 11, 2022, 03:19:14 AM »

I will say one thing about this set. It really is a pretty shelf piece for sure. Fits well with my other sets nicely!
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« Reply #245 on: August 05, 2022, 09:03:26 AM »

Finally got my box set. Had a massive score/scratch on the front of it - nice.

Something I find annoying about these boxes - the separate sleeves won't fit back inside the box if they have a protective outer on them.  So you either take your  records out of the box or leave them inside, unsheathed. Or not care, like people used to do.

Also the first time I've seen a single-sided 12" other than on some promotional DJ singles
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