gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
674620 Posts in 27224 Topics by 4010 Members - Latest Member: angleofreason May 28, 2022, 07:56:05 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: 1969 on my site  (Read 1771 times)
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« on: March 23, 2022, 07:28:38 AM »

So, I had a little time and completed 1969 on my site www.beachboysgigs.com .  If you go to the home page, click on gigs and then 1969.  I have reviews, photos, info, etc.  As I've said before, when I wrote the book with Jon we did not have the ability to display ads/photos for all shows-so I can do more of that here and also update inaccurate info or add a review I've found since 2013. You can view 1962-1969 now.  I should add that if you looked at those previous years before, I have added more photos/shows as I have found them.  I also have an additions blog you can click on from the home page-that just lists changes (additions/corrections) since the book came out. I have worked on this up through 1970.
Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2022, 12:39:58 PM »

Ok so-I finished 1970 as well-if you click on the link from the home page (Go to Gigs and than 1970)

https://www.beachboysgigs.com
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10200


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2022, 02:52:40 PM »

Wonderful!
I was surprised to see that the Boys still packed some crowds here and there in '69 and even get good reviews despite their unpopularity in the US. 
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2022, 04:00:28 PM »

Yeah they were still a big draw in Europe especially the UK.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2022, 06:57:30 PM »

I'm going to suggest the issue of just how popular they were in 1969 can be investigated a bit more overall, and some of the results I've seen can be surprising. I'm speaking specifically about the band in the US, which is where most of what I have seen and found has come from.

Some time ago I posted a bunch of TV listings from this exact year, and maybe some from '68 too. If you look over those, and I haven't seen Ian's site updates yet but plan to soon so I'm sure some are there too, you'll notice the Boys were still getting major bookings on almost every major TV show in the years 68-69. If necessary I'll repost or somehow collate the clips I've posted if Ian didn't include them visually.

But consider they did Carson, Merv, etc. Like I said every so-called "big" TV show minus maybe a few that would book rock and pop bands had the Beach Boys on during this time, and the demographics of these shows ranged from the kids and teens to the middle-aged audiences. So they were featured for the wider range of record-buying viewers, along with their original fans, and each group had a chance to hear their new sounds and latest offerings on TV.

My thought is, first, just how unpopular were they if all of these major network shows were booking them to appear? These shows would not book acts that were DOA or wouldn't draw audiences. Second, I think the amount of appearances and TV bookings they did have gets lost to history because quite a lot of those appearances did not survive on videotape, and are not accessible today except by scanning old TV listings from TV Guide or various US newspapers.

We've heard for years about the "surfing Doris Days" quote from Bruce, the low points in their popularity, etc. Yet they were featured on TV quite a bit more than many other acts we'd now consider legendary. Was it a Hendrix type of deal where he didn't have any "hits" to speak of in the US, none of the traditional Top-40 radio airplay (except All Along The Watchtower which barely cracked the top 40 in most markets yet was probably his best showing as a single), yet he was a pretty major draw, his concerts were pretty big events, and Jimi himself was known and loved by those who dug rock music. But he simply didn't sell that many records, so was Jimi "unpopular" too using that standard? Or, possibly, was it a regional thing were certain areas and certain influential DJ's and program managers supported the Boys (and Hendrix) more than others, but history writes out the fact that music was much, much more regional than it would soon become and some bands like the Beach Boys had a top 5 hit single in one region yet could crack top-30 in another.

Just random thoughts I've had after spending years looking at old TV listings and seeing the Beach Boys more frequently than their reputation as an unpopular draw at the time would suggest.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2022, 09:19:58 AM »

I agree that the BBs were on TV a lot in 1968 but the TV did start to kind of dry up in 1969. In January-February 1969 they made a big push to promote I Can Hear Music including the Joey Bishop Show and the Kraft Music Hall. But by the time they promoted Breakaway it was mainly daytime shows like Mike Douglas. They did appear on the David Frost Show distributed by Westinghouse in the summer of 69 and reappeared on the Happening Show hosted by Paul revere. But then things kind of petered out…they did an episode of Something Else and Get It Together in early 1970 but none of the big late night chat shows and in 1971 the only appearances were with David Frost. Even if they got on a few TV shows it didn’t really translate to sales-neither 20/20 or Sunflower were big sellers. Fred Vail told me that in 1970 he had a lot of trouble booking them-promoters were not offering good money. That Australian tour ended with a residency at a small supper club in Sydney and he really had to talk them into it-they viewed it as a real come down-playing to like 200 people eating and dancing at each show.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2022, 09:59:22 AM »

I agree that the BBs were on TV a lot in 1968 but the TV did start to kind of dry up in 1969. In January-February 1969 they made a big push to promote I Can Hear Music including the Joey Bishop Show and the Kraft Music Hall. But by the time they promoted Breakaway it was mainly daytime shows like Mike Douglas. They did appear on the David Frost Show distributed by Westinghouse in the summer of 69 and reappeared on the Happening Show hosted by Paul revere. But then things kind of petered out…they did an episode of Something Else and Get It Together in early 1970 but none of the big late night chat shows and in 1971 the only appearances were with David Frost. Even if they got on a few TV shows it didn’t really translate to sales-neither 20/20 or Sunflower were big sellers. Fred Vail told me that in 1970 he had a lot of trouble booking them-promoters were not offering good money. That Australian tour ended with a residency at a small supper club in Sydney and he really had to talk them into it-they viewed it as a real come down-playing to like 200 people eating and dancing at each show.

I agree the appearances became lesser throughout 1969 but they were on more regional tours too, and of course the UK/Europe jaunt which was a pretty big deal for them as you outlined on the site. But when you look at the TV appearances to promote "Breakaway", and in the latter half of '68 especially they did hit on all the bigger shows like Carson, Bishop, Douglas, Les Crane, Dick Clark's Bandstand spinoff "Happening", Dick Cavett when he was still syndicated daytime, the Kraft show, and for any group that was a pretty comprehensive schedule for a time when the band was viewed by later history as being past their drawing power. Like I suggested, they were playing for all the demographics who would ostensibly be buying the records, from the kids to the teens to the middle-agers.

It's not like they didn't try and weren't getting booked for millions of TV viewers to sample, their records just didn't sell. But was that the whole story, again pointing to Jimi Hendrix at this same time where he was a major figure in rock music and in demand, but his records (and especially singles) just didn't sell as proven by any chart surveys or traditional lists of such things. Yet his success wasn't being centered on selling records at this time.

And consider too the Beach Boys were doing these prison and charity gigs in 1969, whether directly related to Carl's federal legal issues or not, but it did take them out of circulation even more during their various US jaunts in 1969. It's not like fans would or could buy a ticket to some of these shows, yet they did more of these in 1969 as your timeline illustrates.

I just find it interesting that when digging deeper on any number of now legendary rock acts through the years, especially this time frame, they really were not busting through the charts with their now-legendary singles and songs, and some of those songs that became heavy rotation on FM radio and even classic rock and oldies formats were not big sellers at the time, yet they were still popular and in the ears of many fans. So was chart success the ultimate arbiter of success as seems to be the criteria for judging the Beach Boys?

The Australia thing...more a victim of really poor booking and promotion and the like perhaps. I recall that movie made about the guy who tried to book Sinatra to play Australia and it turned into a mess of a debacle lol.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 10:01:55 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2022, 10:07:05 AM »

BTW, here is the full page from the Daily Item in Sunbury PA, Thursday August 7, 1969 describing the Beach Boys' gig at the prison, nothing grounbreaking but always cool to see the context in these regional papers. The formatting was weird and done full-page for some reason, hence the large size of the scan.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 10:09:42 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2022, 10:17:37 AM »

Also, Ian, if you recall this is a pretty extensive series of photos I had found and posted here related to their similar prison and charity gigs in Oklahoma from April 1969, if readers would like to see more on these shows you covered on your site's recent entries. These somehow got posted on Oklahoma historical sites and I copied them and credited the links to their original hosts, and they've been here on Smiley Smile for almost 7 years for fans to see.

Again if anyone wants to actually see these April '69 charity gigs as photographed at the different locations, here they are. Credit to the sites and this forum would be appreciated.

Original link: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15038.0.html


First, this is a rush job so apologies in advance for any typos, mistakes, or if this photo collection has already been posted on the board somewhere else. I was excited to find these and get some other sets of eyes on them! If these have been seen before, or cause any issues, let me know immediately.

Beach Boys gold has been found in Oklahoma.  Smiley

After the Ida B 1964 video surfaced, I did some further researching and searching, and came up with a photo archive from the same Oklahoma historical society which made available the Ida B film archives. And lo and behold, there was a collection of just over two dozen Beach Boys photos from their visit there in April 1969! I had never seen these, I hope that is the same for the other fans reading this post.

These seem to come from a few sources, one is a photographer from the OK parks service (or something...), another is former Oklahoma governor and then-lieutenant governor George Nigh who is actually in quite a few of the photos and somewhat resembles Glen Campbell), and others are from a photographer from a long-gone area newspaper.

According to Andrew's Ian's concert date listings, The Beach Boys were in Oklahoma on April 13, 1969, which was a Sunday. They made at least four appearances, and I believe at least three of them if not all four can be seen in the photos.

Also, according to a report from a fan who was there, The Beach Boys played at the "S. Arch Thompson Auditorium" at the McAlester (OK) High School, and that show according to that fan started at 8:30 in the morning. They invited the band and the band actually showed up, as innocent as that according to that fan's memory.

From Andrew's Ian's list, still on that same Sunday 4/13/69, the Boys played at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary at McAlester, and those photos are the more obvious to ID of the lot. Then there was a stop at the Children's Memorial Hospital - again, not too difficult to ID those - and a "Decency Rally" that seems to have been pulled together by or involving Lt. Gov. Nigh. That rally was reported the next day in the local papers (issue dated Monday April 14 '69) as having had a successful turnout.

I'll post the photos grouped as best as I can by the location or event, and the ones which are unknown I'm hoping someone can ID. This again shows what a valuable and great resource BB's fans have with Andrew's Ian's gig and timeline resources - Thanks! And all of these came from the Oklahoma Historical Society, where I believe you can purchase or license the non-watermarked versions of these for official publication.

These I believe to be from the 8:30am high school gig:




Photos from the penitentiary at McAlester:









Possibly from the Children's Hospital:




Unknown, possibly the Decency Rally or more shots from the other events:








« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 10:23:12 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 10:23:49 AM »

Yeah note that in one shot at the hospital you can see opener Joe Tex, who toured a lot with the BBs in 1969. He even played the Hawthorne Prom with them. I think maybe they were going to do more with him on their label but as we know they ultimately were too concerned with their own flagging career to do much to build Brother Records. Ultimately he never recorded for them.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2022, 10:28:02 AM »

Yeah note that in one shot at the hospital you can see opener Joe Tex, who toured a lot with the BBs in 1969. He even played the Hawthorne Prom with them. I think maybe they were going to do more with him on their label but as we know they ultimately were too concerned with their own flagging career to do much to build Brother Records. Ultimately he never recorded for them.

Yes! We were recently talking about Joe Tex and his feud with James Brown either here or on another chat that nearly came to a deadly shotgun blast, as James and Joe were bitter rivals since the 50's. It could make a good movie! Joe Tex was the real deal, but you don't hear his music nearly enough today on the usual outlets except maybe "I Gotcha" thanks to Tarantino putting it in Reservoir Dogs and "Show Me" which sometimes gets on the oldies stations.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 10:31:44 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10200


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2022, 10:41:25 AM »

Yeah note that in one shot at the hospital you can see opener Joe Tex, who toured a lot with the BBs in 1969.

Wait? What? Really?  Shocked I love Joe Tex (btw in recent years there have been some interesting videos of him added to youtube). Which picture are you taking about? Must've missed that
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2022, 11:00:48 AM »

I just realized...wasn't it Joe Hicks and not Joe Tex? Joe Hicks opened for them that Spring '69 tour. Or is it Joe Tex?
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10200


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2022, 01:54:31 PM »

I just realized...wasn't it Joe Hicks and not Joe Tex? Joe Hicks opened for them that Spring '69 tour. Or is it Joe Tex?


Well, the pictures you posted above definitely don't show Joe Tex. I'm not familiar with Hicks. But maybe I'm missing something.
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2022, 02:38:26 PM »

I just realized...wasn't it Joe Hicks and not Joe Tex? Joe Hicks opened for them that Spring '69 tour. Or is it Joe Tex?


Well, the pictures you posted above definitely don't show Joe Tex. I'm not familiar with Hicks. But maybe I'm missing something.

Joe Hicks was an R&B singer who opened up for the Beach Boys on that Spring '69 tour when the photos were taken.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Don Malcolm
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1008



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2022, 04:18:20 PM »

It was Joe Hicks, GF. Would've been much more interesting with Joe Tex, however! (Imagine Dennis and Joe in the same mind-body-"you should've seen the blonde I was with last night" continuum!)

Regarding mainstream TV: it strikes me that in 1969-72 in particular, being showcased on any of the "establishment" shows was considered by the counter-culture to be a sign of the teminally "unhip" and would have created big problems for a band that was looking for credibility with the hippies. But as an established band with a long track record, they were seen as reliable by those programs/programmers and were still able to coast on their earlier accomplishments...for a while longer at least. 1968 was a tough year, too, with "Friends" the single and FRIENDS the album bombing, pushing them toward a return to the old image with "Do It Again," which did reasonably well on the charts but was also a divisive track for the counterculture media. There was nothing on 20/20 that could pull them out of that tailspin, and it took Brian until after the LP was out to pull out of his depression and pen "Break Away," a nice track that was too old-fashioned to "break" any new ground for them.

So all of that TV booking may have actually undercut their ability to gain traction with the "underground" and that issue dragged out into the release of SUNFLOWER, after which the band (with Jack Rieley on board) pushed even harder to "look" the part of a late 60s/early 70s rock band. That, coupled with a continual effort to upgrade their live performance, would eventually pay off in 1971 with SURF's UP, augmented by the fact that they were touring much more frequently in America that year than had been the case previously (including the two fall tours after SURF's UP had been released).

We have a lot to look forward to when Ian is able to add 1971 and 1972 to this treasure trove of information. Thanks so much for all this fascinating material!
Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2022, 04:37:32 PM »

Yes....I goofed I meant Joe Hicks-that is who you see not sadly Joe Tex
Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2022, 04:44:34 PM »

And I agree that TV was a mixed bag in those days...Neil Young refused to appear with Buffalo Springfield on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show because he viewed it as not their audience at all-obviously the rest of the Springfield felt that any publicity is good and were apparently very miffed that as a result they had to pass on the appearance.  It is true though that I don't think Carson ever was as popular with the teenage rock crowd as Letterman was in the 1980s-he was more of a jazz buff-though he had many rock acts on over the years. Certainly Mike Douglas and Merv Griffin were extremely square shows-both of those guys were more into Robert Goulet or later Barry Manilow than anything remotely "hip".  I Guess Ed Sullivan, another total square, was the show to be on-and the BBs appeared twice.  David Frost and Cavett were more intelligent but even Cavett seemed kind of square when it came to rock-though again he welcomed people like Lennon and CSN on his show.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2022, 04:52:27 PM »

It was Joe Hicks, GF. Would've been much more interesting with Joe Tex, however! (Imagine Dennis and Joe in the same mind-body-"you should've seen the blonde I was with last night" continuum!)

Regarding mainstream TV: it strikes me that in 1969-72 in particular, being showcased on any of the "establishment" shows was considered by the counter-culture to be a sign of the teminally "unhip" and would have created big problems for a band that was looking for credibility with the hippies. But as an established band with a long track record, they were seen as reliable by those programs/programmers and were still able to coast on their earlier accomplishments...for a while longer at least. 1968 was a tough year, too, with "Friends" the single and FRIENDS the album bombing, pushing them toward a return to the old image with "Do It Again," which did reasonably well on the charts but was also a divisive track for the counterculture media. There was nothing on 20/20 that could pull them out of that tailspin, and it took Brian until after the LP was out to pull out of his depression and pen "Break Away," a nice track that was too old-fashioned to "break" any new ground for them.

So all of that TV booking may have actually undercut their ability to gain traction with the "underground" and that issue dragged out into the release of SUNFLOWER, after which the band (with Jack Rieley on board) pushed even harder to "look" the part of a late 60s/early 70s rock band. That, coupled with a continual effort to upgrade their live performance, would eventually pay off in 1971 with SURF's UP, augmented by the fact that they were touring much more frequently in America that year than had been the case previously (including the two fall tours after SURF's UP had been released).

We have a lot to look forward to when Ian is able to add 1971 and 1972 to this treasure trove of information. Thanks so much for all this fascinating material!

I'll agree to disagree about the mainstream TV outlets and the counterculture artists' appearance on them. One of the only examples I have seen of such an artist refusing to do a show, which in this case was an invite to play on Johnny Carson's show, would be Neil Young who balked when the Springfield was invited on the Tonight Show. Yet, consider how many "hip" artists did go on the Tonight Show at this same time, including Jimi Hendrix who famously blew a fuse on his amplifier during the performance and had to grab another amp to restart the song. Same with The Byrds, when Crosby made his famous reply to Bob Newhart.

Just in 1969 alone, Janis Joplin did both Cavett and Carson's shows, Hendrix did both (with Flip Wilson subbing for Johnny that night), Lennon and McCartney were on The Tonight Show unfortunately when Johnny was out, and the list can go on. I totally understand the issue of the counterculture deeming acts unhip for doing mainstream shows, but ultimately such shows would more often add exposure and buzz, and most often translate into higher record sales and demand for live appearances, where revenue was the most important factor even for the hip artists a lot of times. Maybe Neil Young's principles were on a different plane than his peers, but remember Neil also appeared on Tom Jones' TV show with CSN&Y around this same time where Tom even sang with them, and Tom Jones was pretty much the polar opposite of a hip counterculture artist in 1969-70.

As far as hip artists, Lennon/McCartney basically walked on water with the counterculture in 1968-9, Janis and Jimi had major street cred, and they accepted the invites and appeared on the same shows as The Beach Boys. There was also the impact of knowing a large portion of the audiences watching at 11:15 or 11:30 PM were college students, who could afford to stay up late at night during the week and didn't have to be up at 6AM the next day for work or school. And that college audience is pretty much what would sustain The Beach Boys in large part when they transitioned into the Sunflower/Surf's Up/Holland era, and the audience who was buying those albums and digging FM radio.

I think The Beach Boys would stand to lose more by not appearing, and the invitations coming in suggested they were still in demand, especially appearing on the same shows and at nearly the same time frame as the artists mentioned above. It's just that the record sales bumps never really came their way from the appearances. And, brutally honest here, the matching suits and ascots didn't add much to the appeal either. I think the stage wear was very cool, but not when Jimi and Janis are on the same programs dressing as they did.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2022, 05:02:25 PM »

Oh yes, and then there's the week in early '72 when Mike Douglas turned over his show (and apparently guest bookings to some degree) to John and Yoko, and J&Y co-hosted the full week's worth of shows with Mike Douglas! And the guest list was packed with political activists, Black Panthers, George Carlin, etc...and Chuck Berry too. And Douglas out of all the shows the Beach Boys appeared on was perhaps the most mainstream, middle-of-the-road, Middle America formula show you could find on the dial, except maybe Merv Griffin...and a few years later Merv was bringing Brian and Zappa on his show too. I don't know how much of a definite divide there truly was when you had as mainstream of a show as you can get giving John Lennon a week-long platform to host and give exposure to underground acts and counterculture spokesmen.

And it's sad that most of Carson's 60's video library is lost forever, because as mainstream as Johnny and his show were to the public looking back, his guest list was a lot more diverse both idealogically/politically and in terms of showbiz itself than might be assumed decades later.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Don Malcolm
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1008



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2022, 05:31:55 PM »

All very good points, GF. I bow to your research on this topic. I do think it would have been silly NOT to appear, because in such a business you've got to take as much as you can get, and ordinary logic would dictate that national media is the fastest way to the largest number. But the question still remains how many counterculture kids tuned in regularly, particularly in the 1968-69-70, the "Armageddon" period of the anti-war effort. I think the "rebel" aspect of hip, new, mysterious, provocative counterculture types on mainstream shows would have piqued interest for some to watch it, but I'm doubtful that the 18-25 set was making a huge commitment to late-night talk shows at that particular time. Recall how NBC patted themselves on the back in '75 when they cracked that exact market with SNL, something that they publicly admitted had been elusive for them all through the time frame we're examining.

I just think it proved to be a double-edged sword in retrospect, and the problem was extended an extra year because there wasn't management in place to address a more effective way to reach the counterculture. They got that, for awhile at least, with Jack Rieley.

Mike Douglas definitely had a wild showrunner/booking agent/whatever! A lot of gimmicks even within the "mainstream" stuff on that show, as I recall. Part of it clearly was due to those shows scrambling for the younger demographic. Of course John Lennon didn't really need to sell records via such an arrangement in '72, and the prospect of a ratings bonanza was why he got a lot of leeway to book all of the personages who appeared on the Douglas show during that week.
Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1707


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2022, 05:39:11 PM »

Yeah well they all booked rock acts for the ratings....Lennon did an interview where he really regretted that appearance on Carson-first of all Joe Garagiola was not exactly the guy to talk to the Beatles! And then Tahlullah Bankhead was on the show and was constantly making comments...Lennon was apparently not amused and McCartney griped about Garagiola when he returned to do Carson in 1984 to promote his movie. Yeah-Neil commented on that Tom Jones appearance and said it was a mistake to appear with him-but hey I agree with you-that stuff is fun to look at-and it did not harm their careers at all-Neil can be a little precious about things-it's all in good fun.  It is funny though how unhip the host and his guests often were in those days...Did you see when the BBs appeared on Douglas in Dec 1980-he was happy to see the BBs but he was far more impressed to see the guy who wrote "I Write the Songs"!  That kind of show business doesn't exist anymore.  It was such a strange scene-the old Mel Torme/Robert Goulet fans forced to interview and have on people like the Stones (Douglas had them on in 1964 in Cleveland) and Beach Boys.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2022, 06:00:19 PM »

It's all fascinating to discuss these things, definitely. Because it's now over 50 years removed from when this stuff was taking place in real time, it's easy to forget how few choices people watching TV truly had, and narrow it down even further the rock and roll audiences had slim pickings, except maybe on weekends when they'd put the music shows. There were three networks on VHF, a handful of local UHF stations maybe 2-3 per market, and PBS, and that was it for viewing choices. And yes, I totally agree about SNL in 1975 and that was exactly what Lorne and his co-creators had in mind when they developed it: Give that demographic who listens to rock music, likes to get high, and who grew up watching The Beatles on Sullivan as kids a show that spoke to them. Absolutely brilliant concept. And even then, NBC was very old-school and even stuffy to the point where Lorne had to get an ally in the corporate structure, which he did, and he had to get people to like him, people like Dave Tebet, which he did, and he and his allies actually had to meet with Johnny Carson to get his blessing for the SNL project...which fortunately Carson gave. But to judge the landscape of how things were, ABC at the same time gave Howard Cosell a Saturday night variety/comedy show...that shows the divide just by mentioning the host. I have no issues with Cosell, but he wasn't the host for kids in college dorms or partying at home.

There's a lot more to it, obviously, but The Beach Boys showing up in matching suits on TV in 1968-69 was really more of the old showbiz ethos than what was happening in the rock world. And the other fascinating part is how there was that "old guard" showbiz scene still ruling the day on these shows. Even when Janis was booked on Carson in '69 I believe, Johnny (again) wasn't there and Steve Lawrence was the guest host. Janis' fellow guests included Paul Anka. Does that seem a little incongruous to put it mildly?

I'd say some of the last vestiges of that old Vegas-style showbiz that most of us may have seen was when Andy Kaufman and Bob Zmuda would appear as "Tony Clifton" in the 80's, and looking back it feels like the Clifton character was at the same time parodying and delivering the eulogy for that kind of show biz performance and performer. And it's amazing how many people thought Clifton was real because there were still performers around like that and the character was so spot-on.

Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9738


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2022, 06:17:10 PM »

Question for Ian - and apologies if it has been answered before - but were all or even a majority of the band's 1969 gigs at prisons, hospitals, etc related to Carl's settlement and sentence/plea agreement over his draft issues? Or was it just the band doing these gigs for their own reasons? It's certainly odd that all of these seemed to be in 1969, and after that I can't recall them doing similar gigs for prisoners and hospital patients.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10200


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2022, 01:44:34 PM »

Yes....I goofed I meant Joe Hicks-that is who you see not sadly Joe Tex


Since we are talking about Joe Tex for once on this messageboard, just let me put up these three links to a live TV show from '69 in Sweden. Had he toured with the Beach Boys, this is what it would've looked like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBU9rtviKWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDV6PSA2sM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5QnL4C6zA
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.229 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!