gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
671923 Posts in 27044 Topics by 3973 Members - Latest Member: Tante September 22, 2021, 10:06:06 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Stars & Stripes reappraisal?  (Read 2345 times)
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9614


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2021, 07:02:04 PM »

Yes, the "Common Thread" album seemed to be the catalyst for a lot of similar country or bluegrass "tributes" that followed, and a lot of that had to do with the fact that the Eagles tribute project sold tons of albums and helped put the Eagles back into a country bag as well, whereas they had pretty much owned the classic rock genre and format in the previous few decades. The fact they did have strong country roots especially with their first lineup where the amazing Bernie Leadon was a member (and Bernie left the group when he wanted to go even more country and the band didn't) seemed to remind listeners of just how "country" they really were, and how modern country at that time sounded a lot like the old Eagles records. Then there were all kinds of bluegrass tribute projects too, I remember seeing a bunch of them in the stores in the early and mid 90's, with titles like "Pickin On The Beatles", "Pickin On The Movies", etc...basically top-flight Nashville players doing bluegrass versions of classic tunes. Those sold too, some much more than others, but the seeds were planted for such crossovers to have a market and listeners.

And here's a deeper background history of Stars & Stripes I wrote 6 years ago:


For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  Smiley



Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
sloopjohnb72
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2021, 07:48:38 PM »

I think it's misleading to call Brian's version of the song a "demo" or any similar word - before Joe Thomas stepped in, that was the version recorded for the Wilsons project. It's a professional studio recording that took several studio sessions, and it's got 37 pro musicians on it, including lots and lots of familiar names from the 60s. It's about as much a demo as anything on Pet Sounds.
Logged
Awesoman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1641


Disagreements? Work 'em out.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2021, 06:00:23 AM »

I had just started getting into the Beach Boys around the time this album came out.  So I kinda liked it at the time.  But yeah, this was a pretty big misfire.  A couple of the songs were alright such as "Caroline, No", "Little Deuce Coupe", "Don't Worry Baby" and "I Can Hear Music", but overall we should have gotten an album with new, original music instead of this.  Especially since Brian was involved at the time. 

Side story: I remember the grocery store I worked at around this time had played every song on their radio at one point or another. 
Logged

And if you don't know where you're going
Any road will take you there
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9407



View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2021, 06:40:50 AM »

I think it's misleading to call Brian's version of the song a "demo" or any similar word - before Joe Thomas stepped in, that was the version recorded for the Wilsons project. It's a professional studio recording that took several studio sessions, and it's got 37 pro musicians on it, including lots and lots of familiar names from the 60s. It's about as much a demo as anything on Pet Sounds.

It sounds as much a demo as some of the Paley stuff, and we've had numerous threads debating whether *those* sound like "demos." Which, I think, highlights that they kind of sound a little demo-ish. A lot of the stuff sounds like sometimes sparse, unfinished-sounding studio recordings. A "slightly to moderately unfinished studio recording" is I guess a better descriptor than a "demo", as if the intention was always to re-do everything from scratch. I mean, I guess it ended up kinda serving as a "demo, with some usable parts" for Joe Thomas.

I think it's fair to say that the two extant unreleased versions of "Everything I Need" we have at our disposal are working versions, in-progress versions. That is, additional work probably would have been done. Certainly, unless the plan was to cut Carnie out of the song and have it be a Brian/Wendy duet, we can say the version with Brian's lead parts is a sort of demo or at least remnant of a guide vocal.

There are parts of the early version that sound too sparse to my ears. Some of the instrumentation around the interludes during Brian's bridge part sound very sparse. Even keeping in mind the general ethos of that early version was not to be as busy and slathered as the Thomas version would end up, I think it needed a bit more filling in at certain spots. While it has those session musicians on it, part of the issue is that it *doesn't* sound like 37 musicians on it. There are little parts where it's kind of just drums and bass, like those parts on the bridge.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
WillJC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2021, 07:47:53 AM »

I think it's misleading to call Brian's version of the song a "demo" or any similar word - before Joe Thomas stepped in, that was the version recorded for the Wilsons project. It's a professional studio recording that took several studio sessions, and it's got 37 pro musicians on it, including lots and lots of familiar names from the 60s. It's about as much a demo as anything on Pet Sounds.

It sounds as much a demo as some of the Paley stuff, and we've had numerous threads debating whether *those* sound like "demos." Which, I think, highlights that they kind of sound a little demo-ish. A lot of the stuff sounds like sometimes sparse, unfinished-sounding studio recordings. A "slightly to moderately unfinished studio recording" is I guess a better descriptor than a "demo", as if the intention was always to re-do everything from scratch. I mean, I guess it ended up kinda serving as a "demo, with some usable parts" for Joe Thomas.

I think it's fair to say that the two extant unreleased versions of "Everything I Need" we have at our disposal are working versions, in-progress versions. That is, additional work probably would have been done. Certainly, unless the plan was to cut Carnie out of the song and have it be a Brian/Wendy duet, we can say the version with Brian's lead parts is a sort of demo or at least remnant of a guide vocal.

There are parts of the early version that sound too sparse to my ears. Some of the instrumentation around the interludes during Brian's bridge part sound very sparse. Even keeping in mind the general ethos of that early version was not to be as busy and slathered as the Thomas version would end up, I think it needed a bit more filling in at certain spots. While it has those session musicians on it, part of the issue is that it *doesn't* sound like 37 musicians on it. There are little parts where it's kind of just drums and bass, like those parts on the bridge.

That's pretty clearly the result of hearing a 12th generation casette copy of a rough mix, because objectively there's a lot more going on than "kind of just drums and bass", if you listen closely.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 08:00:17 AM by WillJC » Logged
sloopjohnb72
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2021, 08:23:47 AM »

What's bootlegged are two rough, unfinished WIP mixes of a recording that was ultimately intended for commercial release. To make the comparison to Pet Sounds again, there are plenty of moments on that album where only two instruments can be heard, and there are also WIP mixes with rough vocals. However you spin it, it is objectively incorrect to call Brian's version of Everything I Need a demo.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9407



View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2021, 08:59:46 AM »

This is just like the million Paley threads about calling the stuff "demo". There are many definitions of what a "demo" is, and what is colloquially referred to as a "demo" by musicians and by fans. I'm fine not calling those "Everything I Need" mixes demos. I don't think it fits the vast majority of "demo" scenarios.

What I *do* think is that those recordings *could* be unfinished. They could have ended up with more embellishments. For all we know, they DID add more overdubs to *that* version of the song and we haven't heard it. "Soul Searchin'" had more overdubs that we didn't hear until 2013 on MIC, and nobody knew Brian had re-cut the lead for "You're Still a Mystery" in 1999 until they compiled the MIC set as well.

I've gone back and given both "mixes" of the early version a fresh listen. First, the version with Brian singing the verses is *definitely* unfinished. His leads seem to be a guide for Carnie, and this version *is* missing some overdubs (string parts most noticeably, and some backing vocals) heard on the second mix. This is the version I was thinking of when I said Brian's bridge sounded instrumentally sparse. And it does. On that version, after he sings "dream", it is literally just bass and drums, clearly waiting for something else to fill that gap.

And we hear Carnie's leads and the string parts added on the second mix. This certainly sounds more "finished", and the string swells/pads/parts, whatever you want to call them, do fill in some of those sparse gaps, including on that bridge.

The second, later mix sounds murkier sound-quality wise than the first, and that doesn't help. But again, considering the limited provenance we have for these and how/when they got out, I don't think anybody can justifiably say the second, more overdubbed version here was surely going to be the final master, only needed a more attentive mix. Maybe, but maybe not.

It's not a coincidence that some people call both of these mixes "demos" and also call the Paley stuff "demos"; to some ears even with layers of musicians (either live or recorded one-by-one), they still sound kind of cavernous and sparse. For better or worse, Wirestone is right, Joe Thomas filled a lot of those gaps, as he probably did on a lot of Brian's stuff. I often don't like what he uses to fill those gaps; too many oboes and claves and tinkly sounds. 

Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
maggie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 109


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2021, 09:55:16 AM »

Yes, the "Common Thread" album seemed to be the catalyst for a lot of similar country or bluegrass "tributes" that followed, and a lot of that had to do with the fact that the Eagles tribute project sold tons of albums and helped put the Eagles back into a country bag as well, whereas they had pretty much owned the classic rock genre and format in the previous few decades. The fact they did have strong country roots especially with their first lineup where the amazing Bernie Leadon was a member (and Bernie left the group when he wanted to go even more country and the band didn't) seemed to remind listeners of just how "country" they really were, and how modern country at that time sounded a lot like the old Eagles records. Then there were all kinds of bluegrass tribute projects too, I remember seeing a bunch of them in the stores in the early and mid 90's, with titles like "Pickin On The Beatles", "Pickin On The Movies", etc...basically top-flight Nashville players doing bluegrass versions of classic tunes. Those sold too, some much more than others, but the seeds were planted for such crossovers to have a market and listeners.

And here's a deeper background history of Stars & Stripes I wrote 6 years ago:


For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  Smiley




I was quite unaware of the existence of Common Thread, and indeed it does seem like a precursor to Stars & Stripes in some ways. However, there does seem to be a difference in that Stars & Stripes was not promoted as a tribute album -- it was promoted as a Beach Boys album, "featuring" the lead singers.

In that respect it seems quite different than the many country tributes to rock artists that proliferated starting in the 90s. How many bands had sung or played backup on their own tribute albums at that point? Of course, it became a much more common strategy later on (e.g. MC5) as '60s era musicians were dying off.
Logged
Lonely Summer
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3691


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2021, 12:41:13 PM »

What we as Brianistas love to hear, though, does not line up with what record labels/management/Melinda want. They want stuff that sounds like stuff that is on the radio currently. Or at least they did back in 96-98. Brian was still talking about making hit records  back then - well, if you want hits, you have to play the game.
...

But of course none of this stuff got any significant radio airplay. It's the same with Beach Boys albums like M.I.U. or Summer in Paradise, all super slick productions where they were attempting to give their audience some new hit songs about summer and fun; the public wasn't interested at all. But I understand the approach. The Beach Boys don't have the same priorities as their hardcore fans and - maybe to a slightly lesser degree - the same is true for Brian the solo artist. In my earlier days of fandom I found this really confusing: Why is this man, free from the pressures of being a Beach Boy so to speak, putting out stuff like Imagination instead of Smiley Smile part 2? The answer is simple, because that's what he and his management want. You can tell Brian was very proud of Imagination when it came out. Did it stand the test of time the way that All Summer Long or Today or Love You did? That's an entirely different story.
I was with you up till "stand the test of time" "Love You".
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9407



View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2021, 12:46:28 PM »

I'd wager that much of the thought behind "Stars and Stripes" being a "Beach Boys" album was that they were essentially running it as an "authorized tribute album." Instead of some other company doing it, they'd do it themselves and, if the thing was a hit, they'd get a bigger return. Adding the backing vocals obviously lent even more authenticity/credibility to the project for both artists and (theoretically) fans.

Perhaps learning from the mistake of funding "Summer In Paradise" themselves, they seem to have hooked Thomas's label (and possibly other) to help fund the "Stars and Stripes" project.

What ended up happening is that country music fans didn't care about Beach Boys music or the Beach Boys, Beach Boys fans didn't care about country music or the artists lined up on the album, and it sold *very* poorly. And that was *with* a TV special that initially ran on, I think, the Disney Channel in the US? It also came out later in a couple of variations on DVD. They also promoted it with several TV appearances that didn't help clearly.

What it also did, although it probably didn't matter much to most of the band, was that the project alienated and annoyed BB fans too. Why I am I listening to these (mostly) bland country artists do these songs while the BBs, reunited for the first time in years, stand behind them and do backing vocals? The same was true for that awful, awful Status Quo track as well.

The album tanked, nobody much liked it, and then it actually got *worse* as time went by because it ended up becoming the last visible Carl project for fans to see, and was the last time they reunited (until 2012 of course). When fans started also putting together that stuff like "Soul Searchin'" was being shelved to work on this, the appraisal of the project got even worse.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 12:59:56 PM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
maggie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 109


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2021, 02:52:01 PM »

I'd wager that much of the thought behind "Stars and Stripes" being a "Beach Boys" album was that they were essentially running it as an "authorized tribute album." Instead of some other company doing it, they'd do it themselves and, if the thing was a hit, they'd get a bigger return. Adding the backing vocals obviously lent even more authenticity/credibility to the project for both artists and (theoretically) fans.

Perhaps learning from the mistake of funding "Summer In Paradise" themselves, they seem to have hooked Thomas's label (and possibly other) to help fund the "Stars and Stripes" project.

What ended up happening is that country music fans didn't care about Beach Boys music or the Beach Boys, Beach Boys fans didn't care about country music or the artists lined up on the album, and it sold *very* poorly.

Believe it or not, it apparently sold 80,000 copies -- a similar number to the Smile Sessions (!!). It's also apparently fairly close to the number of copies of Pet Sounds sold since 2000 and more than either of the 2012 hits compilations.

Clearly it was a commercial disappointment (and no wonder, for the reasons you cite), but not necessarily a disaster on the scale of Summer In Paradise, which it outsold 3-to-1.
Logged
phirnis
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2565



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2021, 08:31:19 PM »

What we as Brianistas love to hear, though, does not line up with what record labels/management/Melinda want. They want stuff that sounds like stuff that is on the radio currently. Or at least they did back in 96-98. Brian was still talking about making hit records  back then - well, if you want hits, you have to play the game.
...

But of course none of this stuff got any significant radio airplay. It's the same with Beach Boys albums like M.I.U. or Summer in Paradise, all super slick productions where they were attempting to give their audience some new hit songs about summer and fun; the public wasn't interested at all. But I understand the approach. The Beach Boys don't have the same priorities as their hardcore fans and - maybe to a slightly lesser degree - the same is true for Brian the solo artist. In my earlier days of fandom I found this really confusing: Why is this man, free from the pressures of being a Beach Boy so to speak, putting out stuff like Imagination instead of Smiley Smile part 2? The answer is simple, because that's what he and his management want. You can tell Brian was very proud of Imagination when it came out. Did it stand the test of time the way that All Summer Long or Today or Love You did? That's an entirely different story.
I was with you up till "stand the test of time" "Love You".

Insert whatever album from the 60s and 70s you feel stood the test of time. For me they're too many to count and Love You is one of them. But I know not everyone feels that way about this album and that's fine.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9407



View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2021, 06:30:45 AM »

I'd wager that much of the thought behind "Stars and Stripes" being a "Beach Boys" album was that they were essentially running it as an "authorized tribute album." Instead of some other company doing it, they'd do it themselves and, if the thing was a hit, they'd get a bigger return. Adding the backing vocals obviously lent even more authenticity/credibility to the project for both artists and (theoretically) fans.

Perhaps learning from the mistake of funding "Summer In Paradise" themselves, they seem to have hooked Thomas's label (and possibly other) to help fund the "Stars and Stripes" project.

What ended up happening is that country music fans didn't care about Beach Boys music or the Beach Boys, Beach Boys fans didn't care about country music or the artists lined up on the album, and it sold *very* poorly.

Believe it or not, it apparently sold 80,000 copies -- a similar number to the Smile Sessions (!!). It's also apparently fairly close to the number of copies of Pet Sounds sold since 2000 and more than either of the 2012 hits compilations.

Clearly it was a commercial disappointment (and no wonder, for the reasons you cite), but not necessarily a disaster on the scale of Summer In Paradise, which it outsold 3-to-1.

Interesting; do you have a link to sales data?

It apparently reached #101 on the Billboard Top 200 albums charts, which is indeed an improvement over the non-charting "Summer in Paradise." I personally recall seeing "Stars and Stripes" in the clearance bins pretty quickly. Indeed; I didn't get the thing on release date and ended up getting the CD at "The Wherehouse" on a clearance rack for, I believe, $4.99 back in maybe 1997 or 98 or so?
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
RJM
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 758


Woof!!!


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2021, 07:17:32 AM »

I'd wager that much of the thought behind "Stars and Stripes" being a "Beach Boys" album was that they were essentially running it as an "authorized tribute album." Instead of some other company doing it, they'd do it themselves and, if the thing was a hit, they'd get a bigger return. Adding the backing vocals obviously lent even more authenticity/credibility to the project for both artists and (theoretically) fans.

Perhaps learning from the mistake of funding "Summer In Paradise" themselves, they seem to have hooked Thomas's label (and possibly other) to help fund the "Stars and Stripes" project.

What ended up happening is that country music fans didn't care about Beach Boys music or the Beach Boys, Beach Boys fans didn't care about country music or the artists lined up on the album, and it sold *very* poorly.

Believe it or not, it apparently sold 80,000 copies -- a similar number to the Smile Sessions (!!). It's also apparently fairly close to the number of copies of Pet Sounds sold since 2000 and more than either of the 2012 hits compilations.

Clearly it was a commercial disappointment (and no wonder, for the reasons you cite), but not necessarily a disaster on the scale of Summer In Paradise, which it outsold 3-to-1.

You canít compare record sales from 1996 to sales from 2011.  For one thing, people in 1996 were still buying music.
Logged

The world could come together as one
If everybody under the sun
Adds some 🎼 to your day
maggie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 109


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2021, 08:16:07 AM »


You canít compare record sales from 1996 to sales from 2011.  For one thing, people in 1996 were still buying music.

I agree, I just thought it was funny that Stars & Stripes sold as many (80,000) as it did given its reputation as a disaster. Another funny apples-to-oranges comparison is the 80,000 for Stars & Stripes vs. 50,000 for the 1999/2000 mono/stereo releases of Pet Sounds (the version that has been in print continuously since).

Apples-to-apples comparisons would be the 25,000 copies sold of Summer In Paradise and the 1 million 50 thousand (!!!) sold by Still Cruisin'.

I wonder if Stars & Stripes was ever given away as a bonus on QVC or by the Nashville Network or some other such arrangement to beef up these numbers.

The numbers come from AGD.
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.158 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!