Dennis and Bruce as Beach Boys

[Pretty Funky]

I see on another thread the subject of Bruce as a Beach Boy has come up again and it got me thinking. Dennis of course was a original and the only surfer at the time. While not doubting his contribution to the band, his singing was limited and became even more so as his voice got worse in the 70s. Also his lifestyle made him a liability and he was often missing or sacked from the group towards the end.
Bruce of course has been Mr Reliability. Probably sung on more Beach Boy albums (?) and contributed more vocals per track. Aside from leaving in the 70s, he could be counted on from joining after Brian left until the Carls death in 98. (I'll put aside the Mike and Bruce show for another time)
Both wrote a few songs and sung a few leads.

So for the above reasons, it may be thought, Bruce has contributed more to the Beach Boys than Dennis.

[Rocker]

Or bruce's material and work was used more than Deniis'

I think my (only speaking for myself) biggest point for having trouble to call him a fulltime Beach Boy is his way of seeing "The Beach Boys" as "work" while Dennis (and probably all of the original five) loved the band, because they had formed it. It's nothing against Bruce's musical qualities, just my point of view.

[the captain]

I don't think that Bruce's honesty about treating his job as his job should count against him being a real member. Especially when none of us knows how the others felt about the band. Oh, I'm sure we can find quotes about them discussing how special it is to them, etc., but it obviously wasn't all that different for them than for him, considering every other Beach Boy (except Al) left to do other things to apparently satisfy them artistically--things they couldn't do in the Beach Boys.

OK, Mike didn't do that...but then he's the most likely after Bruce to say it's just a job. The commercial aspects of the band have always been more obviously key to Mike than the artistic. Brian? Dennis? Carl? Solo albums to satisfy themselves...

[Rocker]

Yeah of course they did solo-albums, but they as well could have left the Beach Boys. It's just my point of view (among some other) and why I can't see Bruce as a full-time-memebr. I don't say that it's a reason everyone should think so.

[the captain]

Carl did leave the Beach Boys. So did Brian, more or less, although who can really exactly tell (considering his fade-away from them). And Dennis, well, he did when he got fired, anyway. And as for their returns...$$$. Job.

[Rocker]

Luther I don't disagree with you but I still think that if you worked your whole life for one thing, in this case "The Beach Boys", it means something to you. And my point is that Bruce didn't build that band, they were already big, when he came in, he "only" helped them.

[Mark H.]

I think Bruce was really viewed as a "hired hand" at least to the point of Sunflower.  There was mention on either a thread or in a book, I can't recall, that Carl wanted to replace Bruce with Billy Hinche in 1969.  Bruce didn't sing on Smiley Smile and I think that after the collapse of Smile he considered trying a solo career until September 1967 when he was back at the Heider sessions.

I think he's a Beach Boy for sure.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Or bruce's material and work was used more than Deniis'

I think my (only speaking for myself) biggest point for having trouble to call him a fulltime Beach Boy is his way of seeing "The Beach Boys" as "work" while Dennis (and probably all of the original five) loved the band, because they had formed it. It's nothing against Bruce's musical qualities, just my point of view.

I see it a little differently, Rocker. Bruce Johnston was independently wealthy before he joined The Beach Boys. He didn't need the money, he didn't need the "the work". Bruce WANTS to be a Beach Boy. He is touring at age 64 because he loves what he does, he loves the music. What other possible reason is he still out there doing it?

Dennis is the one who needed the work, or specifically, the money. Dennis had ex-wives, child support, drug and alcohol addictions, mortgage payments, boat payments, etc. Is it true Dennis was penniless when he died? Why do you think Dennis wanted to be in The Beach Boys? Another possible reason might be to fill the need for praise, love, recognition, and acceptance - something he didn't get enough of from his family.

I sometimes wonder why Dennis remained with The Beach Boys, other than the above reasons I alluded to. There are stories of him not attending recording sessions that he didn't drum on. If I could've attended a Brian Wilson-led recording session in the 1960's, even if I had to be the janitor and clean out the toilets, I'd have been there! There are stories of Dennis not getting along with Mike Love, of providing Brian with less than healthy substances. There are stories of Dennis keeping his songs for himself, or the group rejecting them. There are stories of Dennis publicly criticizing Beach Boys' albums; not a positive to do, whether the albums warranted it or not. It just makes me wonder why he stayed in the group. And having said all that, I'm now going to enter the witness protection program.

[Jon Stebbins]

I see on another thread the subject of Bruce as a Beach Boy has come up again and it got me thinking. Dennis of course was a original and the only surfer at the time. While not doubting his contribution to the band, his singing was limited and became even more so as his voice got worse in the 70s. Also his lifestyle made him a liability and he was often missing or sacked from the group towards the end.
Bruce of course has been Mr Reliability. Probably sung on more Beach Boy albums (?) and contributed more vocals per track. Aside from leaving in the 70s, he could be counted on from joining after Brian left until the Carls death in 98. (I'll put aside the Mike and Bruce show for another time)
Both wrote a few songs and sung a few leads.

So for the above reasons, it may be thought, Bruce has contributed more to the Beach Boys than Dennis.

I find this whole explanation horribly flawed. Rocker was the one out of everybody who nailed why it doesn't compute. Bruce joined the BB's AFTER they had been established as a top hit act for three or four years, AFTER they had established their niche in the pop pantheon, AFTER they'd forged their identity, AFTER thay had built their fan base...and AFTER they had made many, many, many of their signature recordings...he played no part in anything related to the BB's that came before 1965...and that's a HUGE amount of their legacy.

Dennis GAVE the Beach Boys their identity. He was Brian's muse. He brought them their connection to the culture that they trade on to this very day. Dennis was a Massive factor in the BB's popularity at the most crucial time. He received the lions share of fan mail. The girls came out in droves to see him.  Brian has said many times they'd literally knock the other BB's aside to get to Dennis.

Dennis' voice was HUGE in the earliest signature BB's recordings. Surfin', Surfin' Safari, Lonely Sea, Surfer Girl, Be True To Your School, In My Room, I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, Little Honda, Girls On The Beach, When I Grow Up, Wouldn't It Be Nice. All of these songs and so many more BB's classics feature a HUGE dose of DW's voice in them. The FIRST song Bruce shows up on is California Girls which is relatively late in the BB's parade of hits. Bruce never had the presence or affected the fundemental texture of the BB's vocal sound like Dennis did.

I don't even have to mention what Dennis' energetic drumming or great songwriting brought to the BB's table...he doesn't need it. He gave the BB's a large portion of their early momentum with his presence, image and voice. Anyone who misses that is not paying attention.

Bruce is a solid musician, solid songwriter arranger...a great team player...a very talented man. He was a huge vocal asset from '65 to '72...to me the later years don't mean much artistcally or legacy wise. If you dig Keepin the Summer Alive and think it had any importance in the BB's story... then Bruce is your man. But Dennis Wilson was...Dennis Wilson. One in a Million. The BB's would never have been what they were without him. Not even close. I can't believe we still have to explain that some people.

[MBE]

Jon you hit it. Comparing Bruce to Dennis? Good lord. Ok Bruce wrote 7 whole songs for the group. Bruce sang lead on maybe 10. Bruce did some decent recordings around 1970-1 with the group but without Brian's voice or Carl's production would they have worked. On evidence of the Goin Public LP no way. Johnston is a craftsman, he is technically great. Dennis had real passion, guts, grit. I think Bruce would agree that his role musically was minor next to Dennis. Time put in is one thing, but what you accomplish in that time is another. Bruce is not as easy to get a handle on as Dennis was. Dennis was a good if tormented man. He loved his fans and his band, even Mike. He was no angel and never pretended to be one. Bruce seems to be the most dual personality of all the Beach Boys. He is both kind and brusk with fans. He claims to stay out of group politics but anyone in the know will dispute this. He makes some of the most insightful comments evber and some of the dumbest putdowns of the others. He claimed to have hated where the group was heading in the 1978 Leaf book, then helped push them there once he rejoined remarking to one find in 1981 that he wanted to play the oldies. He once called Brian Rachmoninof then told an interviewer that the Beach Boys albums were "merda".  He once walked out on an interviewer who mentioned Love You.  Bruce is a strange guy.

[phirnis]

He once called Brian Rachmoninof then told an interviewer that the Beach Boys albums were "merda".  He once walked out on an interviewer who mentioned Love You.

I'd love to hear some details abouth these occasions!

[MBE]

Well I will try to explain a little so you can see for yourself.  He is both kind and brusk with fans. I say this by reading his MB posts. He claims to stay out of group politics but anyone in the know will dispute this.This is what I have been told by several behind the scenes people- backing band members etc.  He makes some of the most insightful comments ever and some of the dumbest putdowns of the others. Mainly refearing to his comments post 98 about Brian and Al..  He once called Brian Rachmoninof then told an interviewer that the Beach Boys albums were "merda".  This was in a early 90s interview with Record Collector. He once walked out on an interviewer who mentioned Love You.Read that here.

[matt-zeus]

To add my two cents worth, i've always had a dubious opinion of Bruce, I'm sure he's a nice guy but to me he is my least favourite Beach Boy - the ultimate Mr 'Sit on the fence'. I've read interviews with him where he says some odd things, odder than Mr. Love indeed.
I think if he really cared for the band and their music, he would have packed it in in 98 when Carl died, realising that a Wilson and Jardine-less Beach Boys had absoutely nothing going for it. I also totally dislike his production on LA and KTSA.
I like Al Jardine though.

[jlaird]

I think they're both Beach Boys, Dennis is obvious, but Bruce, just because he joined late doesn't mean anything.  If I were to move to NYC, after 40 years, I would consider myself a New Yorker, was I born there, no, was I there when New York was born, no, if I moved away for 7 years in the middle would I still consider myself a New Yorker, yes.  Bruce eat, sleeps, and breathes the Beach.  No, he isn't the most important, but I wouldn't be in a giant city, but I would still be a part of it, and he will always be a part of the beach boys.

[Cam Mott]

There are few Beach Boys, present and past, who have dedicated as many years as Bruce to being a Beach Boy.

[MBE]

I don't deny his role in the group. I only say it's not equal to what Dennis added. This is a matter of taste only not hours logged.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Interesting to note that Dennis and Bruce were the only two Beach Boys to actually surf.

Obviously, Dennis Wilson was a major talent who made a huge contribution in the identity, voice and music of the Beach Boys.

Bruce has been a major team player; first fillling in on bass and b/r vocals.  Later on, he wrote some nice songs, sang some leads,  arranged, produced, played keybaords and a whole lot more.  The rock and roll hall of fame is fulll of band members who did little more than play their instrument and, maybe, sang some background vocals.  For example, their is no comparison between the amount Bruce has contributed and say, Charie Watts of the Stones.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yes, Bruce has been a team player. Is it possible that it's actually Bruce who is keeping The Beach Boys alive?

We call them Mike AND BRUCE. The newspaper articles say Beach Boys Mike Love AND BRUCE JOHNSTON. Two Beach Boys (Mike AND BRUCE) are better than one. Can you have a "Beach Boys" with just one Beach Boy?

What if Bruce retired from The Beach Boys? Would that finally force Mike's hand and not allow him to call the touring group "The Beach Boys". Legally, he probably still could, but would he - without Bruce? 

[Aegir]

Bruce's songwriting contributions to the Beach Boys could've been so much more, especially in the later years. Before he joined the band, he was writing music that sounded like what the Endless Summer-esque audience wanted to hear from the Beach Boys. But once he signs on with the group he spent years imitating, he suddenly becomes Barry Manilow. I don't get it.

[Pretty Funky]

Sorry for some this became a anti-Dennis thread when my intention was pro-Bruce.
Interesting the Stones post. I had thought of how important Brian Jones was in the begining, in fact Charlie is on record as saying it was really Brian and Ian Stewart's band, yet that did not stop him being sacked. The Stones continued without him of course to bigger things.
Maybe Bruce would have earned more respect had he lived on 119th St in 61 or been a blood relative.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Interesting to note that Dennis and Bruce were the only two Beach Boys to actually surf.

Mike surfed a bit, as well.

[Rocker]

Interesting to note that Dennis and Bruce were the only two Beach Boys to actually surf.

Mike surfed a bit, as well.

Al also went a few times, if he is to be believed...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It would be difficult to avoid surfing at least once if you live in Torrance and Manhattan Beach, as Al did.

[thomasogg]

It's quality not quantity that counts! Bruce contributed some nice vocals to 'God Only Knows' and one BB classic in 'Disney Girls'. The rest of his stuff? 'Bluebirds..' is appalling, 'The Nearest Faraway Place' is elevator music (a good instrumental from this period? 'Mona Kanua' - by Dennis of course!), 'Deirdre' is, at best, average, and 'Tears..' is cheesy as hell! Bruce's songs were the worst on both 20/20 and Sunflower. His return to the band in '79? I'd say he's contributed to the negative BB image of an 'oldies hits jukebox'-style band more than any other member besides Mike. Dennis on the other hand, was always wanting to be progressive and forward-thinking with the bands music. He did indeed badmouth M.I.U. publicly, and quite frankly his quote is one of the best put-downs of an album I've ever heard, and a very justified one at that!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I agree (except I like MIU!)