The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
682039
Posts in
27673
Topics by
4096
Members - Latest Member:
MrSunshine
September 21, 2024, 12:55:19 AM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General On Topic Discussions
|
"Tune X" aka "Tones" - A lost SMILE gem?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
Author
Topic: "Tune X" aka "Tones" - A lost SMILE gem? (Read 8281 times)
XY
Guest
"Tune X" aka "Tones" - A lost SMILE gem?
«
on:
September 02, 2006, 02:32:16 AM »
"Tune X" - a song by Carl, produced by Brian. Little we know about this multi-part song, suite, part of SMILE. 2 incomplete fragments of at least 3 parts are available on regular boots. Here's a list of the known sessions, although there could be more of course.
March 3, 1967 - Sound Recorders Studio A
Basic Track with violas, cellos, violins
drums & guitars overdubs
available on Secret SMILE
March 13, 1967 - Western Studio 3
BB record vocals for March 3-track
March 15, 1967 - Western Studio 3
instrumental overdubs on March 13-tape
bass guitar, guitar, upright bass
March 28, 1967 - Gold Star Studio A
Van Dyke Parks and a studio full of violinists were waiting for Brian, but he didn't show up - Session cancelled - Van Dyke unhappy
March 29, 1967 - Gold Star Studio A
Session cancelled - bad vibes
March 30, 1967 - Gold Star Studio A
Session cancelled - still bad vibes
March 31, 1967 - Sunset Sound
Van Dyke Parks, Dennis, Gene Ester, Lyle Ritz and Brian record another fragment, known as "Doves Of Free" or "untitled instrumental"
available
April 11, 1967 - Western Studio 3
the song was renamed to "Tones"
cancelled instrumental session for "Tones - Part 3"
I think this song is a fascinating "what-would-it-have-been" thing. Maybe it was a more important part of SMILE than we thought, maybe it had nothing to do with SMILE...
Logged
Sheriff John Stone
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 5309
Re: \
«
Reply #1 on:
September 02, 2006, 05:46:07 AM »
I like Tune X also. It's been credited to Carl, but it sounds kind of Brian-ish to me. Do you include it on your personal SMiLE mix? I'm re-working my personal SMiLE mix (for the 48th time) and can't decide where to put it.
Logged
XY
Guest
Re: \
«
Reply #2 on:
September 02, 2006, 06:23:21 AM »
No, I never included it in my SMILE mixes. I always did December 66 and February 67 SMILEs. There's just not enough around from the "Tune X"-sessions.
Allegedly, it was a song that Carl wrote and Brian produced. But I tend to think it was a song written by Van Dyke that Brian didn't want to produce...
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #3 on:
September 02, 2006, 06:59:28 AM »
What I find interesting is that the AFM sheet for the first session (March 3rd) lists the artist as "Carl Wilson" and the employer as "Brother Records". Documentation for all subsequent sessions lists the artist as "The Beach Boys" and the employer as "Capitol Records". Makes me think it started as a Carl solo vehicle and was quickly diverted to the Beach Boys, possibly for use in a revamped "SMiLE" lineup.
I would tend to think that first session was produced by Carl, since he can be heard doing the count-in at the beginning. Is there some evidence that Brian produced it?
Thanks,
Craig
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #4 on:
September 02, 2006, 07:30:18 AM »
Looking at the documentation, the Capitol worksheet for the March 13th vocal session has the location as Sound Recorders (not Western as Badman indicates), and the March 31st tracking session as "Sound Recording Studio", which is more likely Sound Recorders than Sunset Sound, I would think, since there were so many sessions being held by the Beach Boys at Sound Recorders around this time (probably because it, like Columbia, had an 8-track deck). Also, despite the fact that Badman says the April 11th session was cancelled according to the Union log, there is no such notation on the AFM contract for that session. He might have been referring to a different document, but there are other AFM sheets that do bear a "session cancelled" notation, whereas this one does not.
Logged
XY
Guest
Re: \
«
Reply #5 on:
September 02, 2006, 08:09:34 AM »
Thanks for the infos. Interesting stuff.
I'm not sure if it's Carl talking during the first session, sounds like Brian to me. Billy Hinsche played guitar.
It seems that Van Dyke was very involved. He played on the March 31-session, which I think could be the untitled Spanish instrumental-thing ("Doves Of Free") and was there when Brian didn't show up for the violin-session.
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
Online
Gender:
Posts: 10728
"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."
Re: \
«
Reply #6 on:
September 02, 2006, 08:14:46 AM »
Quote from: Jasper on September 02, 2006, 08:09:34 AM
I'm not sure if it's Carl talking during the first session, sounds like Brian to me.
I haven't heard everything from those session yet but there's a version here somebody says "Thanky ou" at the end and that's clearly Carl. Dunno if you're talking about that one...
Logged
a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.
- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys
PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST
To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.
- Jack Rieley
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #7 on:
September 02, 2006, 09:17:10 AM »
Quote from: Jasper on September 02, 2006, 08:09:34 AM
Thanks for the infos. Interesting stuff.
I'm not sure if it's Carl talking during the first session, sounds like Brian to me. Billy Hinsche played guitar.
It seems that Van Dyke was very involved. He played on the March 31-session, which I think could be the untitled Spanish instrumental-thing ("Doves Of Free") and was there when Brian didn't show up for the violin-session.
If all of the info regarding Van Dyke's involvement is from the Badman book, it may be erroneous. If there are other sources, it may be valid info, so by all means let us know. But comparing the documentation I have with what Badman writes, a have a sneaking suspicion that he's getting his info from an old description of the "Holiday" session tape, because when that first appeared on the collector's circuit, it was misidentified as "Tones". That session tape revealed that Dennis, Van Dyke, and Gene Estes were all playing on the track, but it turned out to be "Holiday". A description of that tape by Brad Elliott was published in one or more of the fanzines in the early '80s. Brad also came up with info on the cancelled sessions of March 28th, 29th, and 30th in his timeline of "SMiLE" sessions, published in ESQ in May 1988, but he didn't say what song was supposed to be recorded...I think maybe Badman just assumed it was "Tune X", because that's what was finally recorded on March 31st. However there's no indication that I'm aware of that Van was supposed to be involved in those sessions. Likewise, I think maybe Badman assumed Brian was the producer of these sessions because that's what Brad originally assumed (in his original article on the "SMiLE" sessions, published in "Add Some Music" early in 1984), and because Brian was the producer of the "Holiday" session that many thought was "Tones/Tune X" until sometime in the early '90s.
The documentation I have for the March 31st session is a Capitol worksheet indicating 8 musicians were employed, three of whom are named: Hal Blaine, Gene Estes, and Jim Gordon (one of the 8 may have been contractor Diane Rovell and another may have been engineer Armin Steiner, leaving 3 unidentified).
But there's no mention of Dennis or Van Dyke.
Where can one find the "Doves Of Free"/"Untitled Instrumental" ? I'm not sure if I've heard that yet...
Thanks,
Craig
Logged
SMiLEY
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 115
Columnated Ruins Domino
Re: \ Tones
«
Reply #8 on:
September 02, 2006, 04:05:06 PM »
This piece is a big still unsolved mystery of the Smile era. I love it. I've always wondered what the vocal melody was, and if possibly Brian may recall it. He seems to have a vast memory for things like this. No one seems to have ever asked Carl about it.
My theory, based on nothing but hubris, is this -- after the debacle in December, Brian rethought the album's structure. He decided to include songs by the other members of the band, don't forget Dennis had a tracking session during this period.
My hope is that the eventual Smile box will have this track and more info about it.
Logged
Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMiLE!
Old Rake
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 142
Re: \
«
Reply #9 on:
September 02, 2006, 05:37:17 PM »
Quote
March 31, 1967 - Sunset Sound
Van Dyke Parks, Dennis, Gene Ester, Lyle Ritz and Brian record another fragment, known as "Doves Of Free" or "untitled instrumental"
available
Yeah, I have *never* heard of anything called "Doves of Free" before. What the heck? Where is this information from? And what's the logic behind this being the "spanish instrumental?"
Logged
Jason
Guest
Re: \
«
Reply #10 on:
September 02, 2006, 08:18:16 PM »
I must admit, I'm not a big fan of this one, although what we've all heard an incomplete version. The vocals have not been booted at all.
The song just seems to ramble and meander along its own road and in the process, accomplish nothing. Sure, maybe if you're a sunshine pop fan who loves your strings with your pop music, then maybe this song would be your cup of tea. As it stands, it's incomplete, it's not one bit as interesting as the contemporaneously recorded stuff, Carl would write FAR better stuff later on, the song's just there.
Of course, if the vocals ever come out, maybe my opinion will be swayed.
Don't ever count on this one being released.
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4171
Re: \
«
Reply #11 on:
September 03, 2006, 05:21:49 AM »
Quote from: c-man on September 02, 2006, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: Jasper on September 02, 2006, 08:09:34 AM
Thanks for the infos. Interesting stuff.
I'm not sure if it's Carl talking during the first session, sounds like Brian to me. Billy Hinsche played guitar.
It seems that Van Dyke was very involved. He played on the March 31-session, which I think could be the untitled Spanish instrumental-thing ("Doves Of Free") and was there when Brian didn't show up for the violin-session.
If all of the info regarding Van Dyke's involvement is from the Badman book, it may be erroneous. If there are other sources, it may be valid info, so by all means let us know. But comparing the documentation I have with what Badman writes, a have a sneaking suspicion that he's getting his info from an old description of the "Holiday" session tape, because when that first appeared on the collector's circuit, it was misidentified as "Tones". That session tape revealed that Dennis, Van Dyke, and Gene Estes were all playing on the track, but it turned out to be "Holiday". A description of that tape by Brad Elliott was published in one or more of the fanzines in the early '80s. Brad also came up with info on the cancelled sessions of March 28th, 29th, and 30th in his timeline of "SMiLE" sessions, published in ESQ in May 1988, but he didn't say what song was supposed to be recorded...I think maybe Badman just assumed it was "Tune X", because that's what was finally recorded on March 31st. However there's no indication that I'm aware of that Van was supposed to be involved in those sessions. Likewise, I think maybe Badman assumed Brian was the producer of these sessions because that's what Brad originally assumed (in his original article on the "SMiLE" sessions, published in "Add Some Music" early in 1984), and because Brian was the producer of the "Holiday" session that many thought was "Tones/Tune X" until sometime in the early '90s.
The documentation I have for the March 31st session is a Capitol worksheet indicating 8 musicians were employed, three of whom are named: Hal Blaine, Gene Estes, and Jim Gordon (one of the 8 may have been contractor Diane Rovell and another may have been engineer Armin Steiner, leaving 3 unidentified).
But there's no mention of Dennis or Van Dyke.
Where can one find the "Doves Of Free"/"Untitled Instrumental" ? I'm not sure if I've heard that yet...
Thanks,
Craig
I agree, I think Brad unintentionally created some confusion about
Tones
and
Tune X
and
Holidays
.
Logged
"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #12 on:
September 03, 2006, 06:46:12 AM »
At one time, it was thought the title "Tones" may have originated with the writing on a tape box (which typically will have "test tones" at various frequencies logged on the lid), however AFM contracts and Capitol worksheets for the first few sessions clearly identify the song as "Tones", while one worksheet says "Tune X (Tones)", and the final AFM contract says "Tones (Part #3)".
The recordings we have in circulation seem to be "Part #1", as the instrumentation used most closely resembles that on the AFM contract for the first session.
Personally, I think it sounds in the same vein as "God Only Know", with a touch of "Winchester Cathedral" thrown in by virtue of the slide guitar overdub. If it was a Carl solo vehicle initially, he may have been trying to do something in a similar vein to "GOK", since that was the first hit in which he was the featured vocalist. As with other recordings from the "SMiLE" era, we can only HOPE that the vocal tracks will one day materialize...
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4171
Re: \
«
Reply #13 on:
September 03, 2006, 10:44:58 AM »
Craig, what do you think about the notation on 3/31
Tune X
being a "test tones" reference and the possibilty of the
Tune X's
different master [57400] number indicating it may be unrelated to
Tones
[master number 57321]? I guess, I don't have documentation for March 13 or March 31.
Logged
"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #14 on:
September 03, 2006, 12:21:17 PM »
Quote from: Cam Mott on September 03, 2006, 10:44:58 AM
Craig, what do you think about the notation on 3/31
Tune X
being a "test tones" reference and the possibilty of the
Tune X's
different master [57400] number indicating it may be unrelated to
Tones
[master number 57321]? I guess, I don't have documentation for March 13 or March 31.
Well, here's what I have:
3/3: AFM contract, for artist Carl Wilson, employer Brother Records, authorized by Brian Wilson, with William Hinsche as leader and musician, Diane Rovell as contractor, plus an 8-piece string section. Engineered by Armin Steiner at Sound Recorders. No master number. Title: "Tones"
3/13: Capitol worksheet, for artist The Beach Boys. Vocal session by 5 artists. At Sound Recorders. Master # 57321, Project # 31-5526 (same Project # as the "SMiLE" album). Title: Tones
3/15: AFM contract, for artist The Beach Boys, employer Capitol Records. Leader is Diane Rovell. No authorized signauture. Tracking session with three musicians: Carol Kaye, Bill Pitman, and Lyle Ritz, at Western Recorders, with Chuck Britz engineering. Master # 57321. Title: "Tones"
3/31: Capitol worksheet, for artist The Beach Boys. Leader and musician Hal Blaine, contractor D. Rovell. 8 musicians total (it does say "excluding contractor", so Diane would not be one of the
. Other musicians named: Gene Estes, Jim Gordon. Location: Sound Recorders. Master # 57400, Project # 31-5526. Title: Tune X (Tones)
4/11: AFM contract, for artist The Beach Boys, employer Capitol Records, with William Pitman as leader and musician. No authorized signature. Tracking session with five musicians (Pitman, Ronald Benson, Frank Capp, Jim Gordon, and Lyle Ritz), plus engineer Chuck Britz and contractor Diane Rovell. Location: Western
Recorders. Master # 57321. Title: Tones (Part #3)
It does seem odd that the March 31st session would be given a different master number than the other "Tones" sessions, but that could simply be a mistake (whoever assigned it didn't realize there was already a master number assigned for this song). I don't know why the Capitol worksheet for that session would say "Tune X (Tones)" if this was simply a reference to test tones, since none of the other Capitol worksheets over the years mention "tones". The fact that they had a song called "Tones" in production at the time seems to weigh in favor of the March 31st session being for the song "Tones", but why they put that title in parantheses following "Tune X" here and nowhere else is a good question. Since the April 11th session ifsfor "Part #3", I would think Part 2 would've been recorded at either the March 15th or 31st session...or possibly both, meaning the first attempt was rejected, and it was tracked again. HOWEVER, there's also the possibility that the March 15th session was merely for overdubbing onto the March 3rd track (although the AFM contract says "tracking", not "sweetening", as would normally be the case for an overdub session...still, since only three musicians were employed on March 15th, all of them guitar or bass players, the likelihood of an overdub session is greater, I would think). This would leave March 31st as the tracking date for Part 2 of the song.
If I would've thought about it, I would've asked Billy Hinsche what he remembers about this early Carl session when I saw him at Brian's show in Vegas this summer. He MIGHT remember something about this song (or he might not have, but it's worth asking him). He was also at the session for Dennis' "I Don't Know" track, so if someone talks or chats with him, please ask him about these two, OK?
Logged
Bicyclerider
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2132
Re: \
«
Reply #15 on:
September 03, 2006, 01:25:05 PM »
I think we can all agree Van Dyke was not present (at least by the documentation we have) at any of these tones sessions - Badman is incorrect and mixing up Holidays with tones, a historical error made by the bootleggers and perpetuated by Brad and Dom before the mixup was discovered.
Alan boyd has said in the past that Tones is Tune X is the Carl instrumental we know from the boots - the vocal session hasn't turned up yet and likely won't. I suspect Tune X meant that the tune was untitled, and the "(Tones)" after it was to indicate that this was the same song as the previous Tones session, which was no doubt also a provisional title. The tones part 3 designation is interesting but I don't believe anyone's heard this - since Tones/tune X fades, what could be a part 3? Unlikely to be an overdub - that would be "insert" or something like that, if the Smile session terminology is consistent.
and what's this doves of free? is there a session sheet to tapebox with that on it? This is the first I'm hearing of this title - is it an internet download title for the spanish guitar style instrumental? We never have had a date associated with that, have we?
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #16 on:
September 03, 2006, 01:42:22 PM »
Where can the Spanish-guitar sytle instrumental be found? Is it on any of the recent boots?
Logged
Ken.W
Honored Guest
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 123
Re: \
«
Reply #17 on:
September 03, 2006, 01:44:47 PM »
Craig, it's 'The Third Man' theme soundalike. I'm pretty sure you've got it somewhere.
Easily found on disc.2, track 10 'Untitled Instrumental' on Secret SMiLE.
Ken.
«
Last Edit: September 03, 2006, 01:48:34 PM by Ken.W
»
Logged
"You're entitled to protect your copyright. You're not entitled to control the Internet," - Federal Court Justice Murray Wilcox
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4941
Re: \
«
Reply #18 on:
September 03, 2006, 02:27:14 PM »
Quote from: Ken.W on September 03, 2006, 01:44:47 PM
Craig, it's 'The Third Man' theme soundalike. I'm pretty sure you've got it somewhere.
Easily found on disc.2, track 10 'Untitled Instrumental' on Secret SMiLE.
Ken.
OK, I have it then. Thanks.
Logged
SMiLEY
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 115
Columnated Ruins Domino
Re: \
«
Reply #19 on:
September 03, 2006, 05:40:24 PM »
Quote from: Jason on September 02, 2006, 08:18:16 PM
I must admit, I'm not a big fan of this one, although what we've all heard an incomplete version. The vocals have not been booted at all.
The song just seems to ramble and meander along its own road and in the process, accomplish nothing. Sure, maybe if you're a sunshine pop fan who loves your strings with your pop music, then maybe this song would be your cup of tea. As it stands, it's incomplete, it's not one bit as interesting as the contemporaneously recorded stuff, Carl would write FAR better stuff later on, the song's just there.
Of course, if the vocals ever come out, maybe my opinion will be swayed.
Don't ever count on this one being released.
Sure, it would be great to hear it with vocals, but I think you're being a little hard on it. It's lushly produced and I disagree that rambles. It's very memorable ,as is, IMO. And I wouldn't call it sunshine pop, more like baroque pop. Indeed, I do loves me some strings, so perhaps I'm prejudiced.
Logged
Look! Listen! Vibrate! SMiLE!
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4171
Re: \
«
Reply #20 on:
September 04, 2006, 05:03:43 AM »
I wonder if there aren't 3 different songs involved: 1. A song for Brother with Carl as the artist [booted]; 2. a BBs song [master # 57321] with 3 parts [as per Brian's MO] for Capitol for the SMiLE/Smiley project number; 3. a BB song [master # 57400] for Capitol for the SMiLE/Smiley project number. I know it seems counterintuitive to think that 3 songs would all be titled "Tones" but if "Tones" were a substitute for "Untitled" it would not be too far out.
Not enough info I suppose.
Logged
"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Pages:
[
1
]
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 7.381 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...