Dennis Wilson's POB - any news?

[peerke]

About a year ago there were some rumours about a re-release of Pacific Ocean Blue, with bonus tracks et all.
I even read somewhere that it would be a 3 cd box set.

Any news on that? What happened?

[Mooger Fooger]

I haven't heard any news...but this being a Beach Boys camp situation I'll play Devil's Advocate if I may.

1. A new CD is promised remastered with all the latest gadgetry to make it sound as if you were with Dennis for the mixdown. A plethora of unreleased tracks will adorn the project with a 20 page booklet featuring never before seen pictures and the like.

2. Delays and legal hassles result in the project not materialising, and thus interest wanes. There is talk of the bonus tracks not being included.

3. Eventually CD is released without bonus tracks, without 20 page booklet, and not remastered but using a needle drop of a copy of the first issue of the CD. CD itself stems from Russia and curiously is absent of any official markings.

[Smilin Ed H]

Mike disagrees with the liner notes... 

[the captain]

Mike finally agrees to the project when he is allowed to write a 300-word introduction to the liner notes. Those notes reveal that Mike himself thought of the name Pacific Ocean Blue (and possibly the Pacific Ocean itself). It seems Love also wrote 50% of the lyrics on the album, and that he worked intimately with Dennis in the studio to put down the instrumental tracks. Turns out Mike had been the only Beach Boy to TRULY recognize Dennis' talent.

[Jonas]

@ Luther...

[Jon Stebbins]

About a year ago there were some rumours about a re-release of Pacific Ocean Blue, with bonus tracks et all.
I even read somewhere that it would be a 3 cd box set.

Any news on that? What happened?

Whoever told you there was something solid in the works was full of it. I can remember some guy climbing on one of the boards and saying his "reliable source" had told him the POB/Bamboo box set was on the way...blah, blah, blah, blah. It never was. This thing is exactly where it was about three or four years ago. The legal rights aspect was sorted out...James Guercio owns Dennis' solo material recorded under contract to Caribou/CBS. What is that? POB and most if not all of Bamboo. The Beach Boys or BRI own anything recorded before that...meaning all of the DW solo and BB's stuff until '74/75. If all of it was to be presented together the BRI guys and Guercio would have to come to an agreement.

Right now most, if not all of the DW masters, both solo and BB's related rest in the "brother vaults". And there are TONS of finished masters...and wonderful material that the fans have never heard. Truly the best of the unreleased BB's by far. Some of it clearly better than 75% of the released BB's stuff...no kidding. Alan Boyd has cataloged most of the tapes and knows what's there. Guercio is well aware that the tapes would need restoration and last i heard this process was never initiated. I speak with Gregg Jakobson, POB's co-producer, nearly every week. Gregg is trying to sort out some of the publishing questions that dangle on DW's solo material. DW wrote with a lot of different people and kept track of who and where and how only sometimes.

The BB's, or BRI, or Mike Love or whoever...have NOT been exactly welcoming or helpful, or momentum builders when it comes to getting DW's stuff out there. The surviving Beach Boys could have easily focused a light on the fact that this treasure is out of print and hastened the process towards a DW release. Some have charged Mike in particular with being a road block to nearly anything DW related. This is NOT sour grapes(Cam)...this comes from completely unrelated parties on the inside...who have recently told me they experienced Mike's negative attitude regarding this subject. And I don't see Brian insisting DW's solo stuff, or Carl's for that matter, sees the light of day either. Believe me a few well chosen words in public... and a phone call or two from Brian would make a HUGE difference. If he wanted this then many more people would want it too. But for the most part there is disinterest from Brian, and perhaps worse from Mike. Perhaps that's one clue as to why Dennis' fans are still waiting for a release.

Another clue would be Jim Guercio's seeming hesitation to initiate the process. This probably comes down to the fact he's busy, or he doesn't want to have to cope with an inevitable confrontation with all of the above... or probably most likely that the DW box set would not be a big money maker...or even a money maker at all at first. I think a film, either using DW's music to adorn a random movie...or to fill a movie about him...is the obvious vehicle. Perhaps this will happen...but the wheels are turning slowly. Everyone is talking...nobody is doing. I'm deeply involved in this, my life has been wrapped up in it for 7 years. I keep thinking something will budge, something will shift, and then the whole thing will all fall into place. I'm really surprised it hasn't happened yet. But in reality its no closer today than it was four years ago. I get calls from "documentary filmakers" "writers" "producers" "collaborators" etc...seemingly every other month. Most of them think they will be the ones to nudge this forward. And then they realize its all too twisted and tangled and nobody with the real power, like Brian, like Guercio, like BRI, like Mike, like Capitol, ...its a fairly long list...but none of them are even close to being on the same page. There has been talk...quite a bit of talk...maybe once or twice a month in a quick call, an email, or a yearly dinner at some L.A. restaraunt. The conversation usually goes..."We really should do something now, yeah lets get this going, okay, call me next month"...whatever....then another half a year goes by. Nothing.

I'm hoping way down inside that someone is gonna call me after reading this and say...Jon...you haven't heard? We started work last month...or the budget has been approved...or lets get to work on this now...or the hurdles have been overcome...or you're hired to write those liner notes. But the odds are like 10,0000 to 1 that will happen. I leave room for the one because in this crazy BB's world anything CAN happen but usually it doesn't. In reality...this will happen someday...the day isn't here yet...it isn't really getting closer as far as i can tell...but people are constantly talking about it. Some of us are doing what we can...and some of those who could...are not.

[peerke]

Thanks Jon.
I was expecting this kind of news, but hoping for something else.
What a sad story.

Let's hope...

[the captain]

Thanks for a really informative post, Jon.

You're right that Dennis' music in a movie would seem a really big help--or even a commercial! For one thing, it is often so dramatic, cinematic in scope, it would be perfect. (In fact, I actually get tired of it because of that very fact! To me, it is over-dramatic.) And the reason I say "a commercial," remember what the song "Pink Moon" in a car commercial did for Nick Drake a few years back--his entire catalogue seemingly reappeared immediately, compilations came out soon after and every Gen-Xer suddenly was a fan.

The other thing is, I'd think a Dennis documentary might be really good. There is plenty there to make a great story. (Good-looking, which never hurts) Member of a famous band is the group's true inspiration (in terms of subject matter), yet is considered the untalented one at first. As time goes on, he obviously blossoms, records and releases exciting, music, more relevant and timely (one could say) than that of his superstar band. As they become a travelling jukebox, he's making interesting but largely ignored music. There are pressures about using material for the group, maybe (or maybe not...I don't know all there is to know about their stance on his solo stuff) even as he deteriorates physically. And he dies an untimely death. It really is the kind of thing people would see. And his music has been so critically acclaimed, I could imagine a well-made documentary doing very well on the indie movie scene.

(I wouldn't want it to be David Leaf's PR-style stuff, though.)

I tell you what, I've convinced me. I'm on the job!

[Aegir]

If Mike's so adamant about "anything DW related" not being released, then why did he record 10,000 Years Ago for his new solo album?

Or maybe he just figured that would never be sold, anyhow.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The legal rights aspect was sorted out...James Guercio owns Dennis' solo material recorded under contract to Caribou/CBS. What is that? POB and most if not all of Bamboo.

Some have charged Mike in particular with being a road block to nearly anything DW related.

Another clue would be Jim Guercio's seeming hesitation to initiate the process. This probably comes down to the fact he's busy, or he doesn't want to have to cope with an inevitable confrontation with all of the above...

Jon, thanks for that detailed post, but sometimes I'm slow, and need further clarification. I highlighted three points that I have questions about.

First, I know you gave several reasons, but I don't understand why Jim Guercio, a 60+ year old man, would simply want to HOLD ON to POB and Bamboo. Either sell the rights or release the stuff. I mean, seriously, people are dying (literally) and getting old(er); what is he waiting for? Why do people who own unreleased material hold onto it for so long - decades sometimes! If they purchase the rights for financial reasons, don't they ever want to cash in? Or do they want to pass the stuff down through their family? You would think that Guercio, a musician and a friend of Dennis', would want the music to be heard, not sitting in a vault.

Second, speaking strictly about POB and Bamboo, how could Mike Love possibly be a road block to those two projects coming out? Other than writing lyrics for one song, what does Mike have to do with POB and Bamboo seeing the light of day?

Third, even if Jim Guercio is busy (and I have no idea what he does these days), how much time would it take to DELEGATE certain jobs - remixing, remastering, art work, publicity, etc. Wouldn't it be just a matter of a couple of phone calls and meetings? Thanks again for the info... 

[Howie Edelson]

I've spoken in depth about getting Dennis work -- namely the fully owned BROTHER material ('Poops'-era, pre-Guercio work) -- released to not only Al Jardine (BRI partner), but to Carnie, Carl B., as well as both Jonah and Jutsyn Wilson (MAJOR BRI partners). All of them seemed shocked at the amount of Dennis' unreleased material gathering moss in the Brother vaults and were ALL for getting any and all of Dennis' work out of the vaults and onto the streets.

Al insinuated to me that that BRI does not want to lock horns with Guercio over the rights to Dennis' material. He did seem genuinely excited about the amount of Dragon-era masters that are in the vaults -- and owned by BRI.

One thing is for certain; it's a real mess as to who owns what. Think about this; Guercio owns POB & BAMBOO, yet "River Song" and "Rainbows" pre-date Dennis' deal with Guercio and were arguably paid for and owned by BRI. "Love Surrounds Me," "Baby Blue," and most recently "Al Alone" were DEFINITELY paid for by Jimmy G -- yet BRI owns those tracks. I'm not sure if there was a deal with Guercio to use "All Alone" for 'Endless Harmony,' but I'd be pretty surprised if there was. Stebbins would know best.

Don't forget -- Dennis has NO corporate vote in BRI. He has as much say in the family business as Blondie Chaplin does. 

[shelter]

or probably most likely that the DW box set would not be a big money maker...or even a money maker at all at first.

I think that with a smart marketing campaign a DW box set would sell.

Dennis should be marketed as the George Harrison of the Beach Boys - the heavily underrated other genius of the band that always had to stand in Brian's shadow. With a clever campaign, I think it should work.

[Jon Stebbins]

The legal rights aspect was sorted out...James Guercio owns Dennis' solo material recorded under contract to Caribou/CBS. What is that? POB and most if not all of Bamboo.

Some have charged Mike in particular with being a road block to nearly anything DW related.

Another clue would be Jim Guercio's seeming hesitation to initiate the process. This probably comes down to the fact he's busy, or he doesn't want to have to cope with an inevitable confrontation with all of the above...

Jon, thanks for that detailed post, but sometimes I'm slow, and need further clarification. I highlighted three points that I have questions about.

First, I know you gave several reasons, but I don't understand why Jim Guercio, a 60+ year old man, would simply want to HOLD ON to POB and Bamboo. Either sell the rights or release the stuff. I mean, seriously, people are dying (literally) and getting old(er); what is he waiting for? Why do people who own unreleased material hold onto it for so long - decades sometimes! If they purchase the rights for financial reasons, don't they ever want to cash in? Or do they want to pass the stuff down through their family? You would think that Guercio, a musician and a friend of Dennis', would want the music to be heard, not sitting in a vault.

Second, speaking strictly about POB and Bamboo, how could Mike Love possibly be a road block to those two projects coming out? Other than writing lyrics for one song, what does Mike have to do with POB and Bamboo seeing the light of day?

Third, even if Jim Guercio is busy (and I have no idea what he does these days), how much time would it take to DELEGATE certain jobs - remixing, remastering, art work, publicity, etc. Wouldn't it be just a matter of a couple of phone calls and meetings? Thanks again for the info... 

Sherriff, I respect your pinpoint curiousity...but let me be blunt. There is no further clarification to be had. You're looking for logic in an illogical world. I'm sorry but i find your questions slightly naive...heartfelt for sure...but naive. These are all people with millions of dollars in hand...some have massive egos...some have mental illness...some have hidden agendas...some are just plain tired and don't want to play the game anymore.

Why would Guercio not move? That questions assumes a logical answer exists.

How could Mike be a road block? That question assumes others aren't intimidated by him, or would act without his blessing.

Delegate? Again...see logic.

For every question you ask there are numerous answers...none definitive. If you feel skeptikal that this could actually be the case...try getting something done with this cast of characters...and get back to me in a decade and tell me how you feel. My original post lays it all out there...that's about everyhting I know and brings it right up to date...there is no secret formula. However, I truly appreciate that you, and the others who posted, at least care about this subject. We need more leverage and people who truly care create that...so your curiosity is a good thing even if my point of view can't satisfy it.

[doc smiley]

from the sounds of this... best hope at this point for Dennis material is the "Beach Boy Central" website/store if it comes to fruitation... hopefully this will get the earlier Dennis material out there for the fans.. and will also show Mr Guercio a avenue for the POB material onwards to be released without as many headaches?!

When/if the store opens then the infastructure will be there to get the songs out.. and for  James Guercio then it would be just a matter of royaltys..

oh course,  this sounds way to simple.. so it won't likely have a chance......

[Rocker]

Don't forget -- Dennis has NO corporate vote in BRI. He has as much say in the family business as Blondie Chaplin does. 

Really ? I thought dennis' share of BRI was sold near the end of his life?


I too think that a movie would be a good chance for at least some of the music to be released. I think they should do a BBs-movie in 5 parts, one about each member, and all share some events. They would all come together for the Beach Boys, but tell a different story about the individuals. Of course this couldn't be a movie for cinema and it's probably not a very good idea.

I think it's a shame that Dennis music isn't available. Even Al said that P.O.B. was better than everything the BBs did at that same time.

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

James Guercio owns Dennis' solo material recorded under contract to Caribou/CBS. What is that? POB and most if not all of Bamboo. The Beach Boys or BRI own anything recorded before that...meaning all of the DW solo and BB's stuff until '74/75. If all of it was to be presented together the BRI guys and Guercio would have to come to an agreement.

"All Alone," a Bamboo track, was released on the Endless Harmony soundtrack.  How did the involved parties cooperate to get that one track released? 

[Howie Edelson]

RE: "ALL ALONE": I'd be willing to bet that Guercio was never even contacted. I don't remember seeing a "by kind permission of" in the credits of the song. With all those masters residing at Brother, I'm sure no one -- Guercio included -- even noticed.

[c-man]

Don't forget -- Dennis has NO corporate vote in BRI. He has as much say in the family business as Blondie Chaplin does. 

Really ? I thought dennis' share of BRI was sold near the end of his life?

Right...Dennis' share was indeed bought out by the other BRI partners (after he died, I believe), meaning he no longer has a corporate vote by proxy of his heirs.  He has no "clout" in the corporation, and no one to speak up for him, unless Brian, Al, Mike, or Carl's estate decides to.

[c-man]

RE: "ALL ALONE": I'd be willing to bet that Guercio was never even contacted. I don't remember seeing a "by kind permission of" in the credits of the song. With all those masters residing at Brother, I'm sure no one -- Guercio included -- even noticed.

Not sure, but the "Endless Harmony" version of "All Alone" may be a re-record, done in '79, after Dennis' ties to Caribou as a solo artist were cut.  If so, that would probably be a BRI property by default.  Just guessing.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Some of us are doing what we can.

And I, for one, really appreciate the lengths that Jon and others have gone to in trying to get the Dennis stuff out.

Hopefully we can all keep pushing and one day it will happen.

[c-man]

Some of us are doing what we can.

And I, for one, really appreciate the lengths that Jon and others have gone to in trying to get the Dennis stuff out.

Hopefully we can all keep pushing and one day it will happen.

I'd be willing to LET Mike Love write his freakin' multi-page introduction, if THAT'S what it takes!

[Howie Edelson]

According to what Al told me, if at any time a group member recorded, the tape was owned by Brother. While we're on the subject of these Guercio-era tapes; who actualy owns the Garby Leon sessions? Who owns "Stevie?" Who owns, and actually holds possession to, the Brian/Dennis Village Recorder session tapes. From what I've been able to gather, BRI did NOT finance these sessions.

I'm confused as to what the actual BRI agreement is. Do they own the tape because of the partnership, or of the financing? If the former was the case, how is it that all the BRI members -- excluding Al, yet including Dennis -- were able to sign seperate, solo production deals within the confines of such a stringent partnership agreement? There seems to be a weird game of pick and choose going on there.

If in 1979, an "All Alone" remake DID occur, which is absolutely possible (although between the two versions of "All Alone," I'm prone to believe that the earlier '78 version was used for "EH"), that would make BRI (by default) a 50% co-owner of the legendary Dennis/McVie tapes as well. No?

Also, any recordings that were done while Dennis was effectively "fired" from BRI, in the early '80s -- and there are undoubtedly more than we think -- MIGHT be owned by Dennis' estate. Although he was still effectively a "partner" he was terminated from the group on several occassions. Does anyone know the actual legal ramifications of his early '80s firings? What a mess. There is no one looking out for this guy. He deserves so much better.

[Steve Mayo]

all i have to say on this is, sometimes after years of storage (maybe even decades) tapes are "refound" in people's collection that may have lots of nonbooted material on them. given how today with file sharing it does not take long for these "refound" gems to see the light of day by many. i would think the corporation, if they want to make some money, would want to release them themselves and not wake up someday and find people around the world now have them. one never can be sure what may be in an oldtimer's collection that was just "refound" by that collector. just my thinking of course...