gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 11:47:28 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Al, Y-Day at the Hollywood Bowl, and a mysterious Gibson SG...  (Read 9822 times)
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« on: January 24, 2021, 07:36:34 AM »

The history of Al Jardine's membership in the Beach Boys has really come a long way over the years.  The old narrative involving a sort of mutually exclusive presences of he and David within the band has given way to the more accurate picture, that Al never really was far outside the Beach Boys ambit, and appeared on stage and in studio when Dave was still around.  But when Dave was in the band, Al tended to play bass on stage.  This fact is also part of the more nuanced picture we have now of Brian's ab initio dislike of the stage--Al played bass with them in 63 when Brian wasn't up to it.

But of course, there was a major sea change when Dave quit.  It forced Brian back into the live show on bass.  That meant Al would now have to move to guitar.  But here's the thing -- Al might not have owned an electric guitar October 1963.  I'm not sure if we have ever detailed the behind-the-scenes machinations within the band as they prepared for Dave's departure between his notice-giving on August 29th, and his final show on October 5th.

In any case, at some point they decided Al would move over to guitar for their next show, the Y-Day concert at the Hollywood Bowl, October 19th '63.

But did Al own an electric guitar?  He had been borrowing the group's Fender bass for the latest tour.  And personally he was into tenor acoustics and being folky.  Did he arrive at the Hollywood Bowl that day with a plan in place?

Those of you who are into Beach Boys guitars may recall that the photos from that day show Al playing a Gibson SG Custom.  It's a wonderful guitar, but not the Strat that Al made his workhorse stage guitar for 64-66.  For a long time, I wondered what the deal was with that guitar.  But recently, as I was researching another Beach Boys guitar question, I discovered this thread at a surf guitar forum:

https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/18849/?page=1


It has the photo of Al and the boys:



But then, revealingly, it has these photo with some accompanying text:





This is Brett Brady of the Showmen, and it's his SG.  The accompanying text says this:  

"Brett Brady had no idea that Al Jardine borrowed his guitar that day until recently. I always thought it was so cool that the two bands shared gear, but Brett didn't remember that Al borrowed it, or loaning it out. maybe Al Jardine just grabbed it without asking?"

So I thought that was the case -- that Al just borrowed the SG for the one set.  But then, I discovered a photo on beachboysgigs.com from October 31st -- almost two weeks later -- playing the SG at Loyola.

Click for the pic


So --did Al arrange to borrow this guitar more long-term from Brett Brady?  Did he steal it?  Did it appear any more that fall?

Has this question come up before?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 07:40:26 AM by aeijtzsche » Logged
Rob Dean
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 958



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2021, 08:20:06 AM »

Very interesting story

Note in the last pic, Carl in the backing with a cigarette  Roll Eyes
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 10622


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2021, 08:21:42 AM »

I'm sorry that I can't add any significant info, but I just had to post this:




Source: https://www.gibson.com/



I can't really make too much sense of it. Al surely wasn't there coincidentally with the Boys. Why would he not have a guitar of his own for the show/get one from Carl/lend one before the appearance? It seems strange to show up for an appearance and then not have enough instruments for the band.
Also the recording of the show has the announcer introducing only the Wilsons and Mike. So, was Al not an official member by this point?

BTW great topic and info regarding the ownership of the SG. Thanks for sharing!
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1833


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 11:18:48 AM »

By the way Carl was always careful about his onstage image but there a lot of photos of him smoking backstage-as you can see he started young-he was still 16 when they played that gig
Logged
All Summer Long
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 537



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2021, 10:25:22 AM »

I hate to possibly derail what was such a good thread with a possibly stupid question, JH, but I’m curious.

I don’t have Becoming The Beach Boys yet and so this might be answered there, but I remember reading here on the board that Brian switched to bass on December 29th or 30th of 1961. That would leave Al without an instrument, unless the band used a dual-bass system like in Nashville or in Brian’s later productions or Al played rhythm guitar. Could he have played acoustic or would he have used an electric from late December 1961 until February 1962?
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 10622


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2021, 11:18:31 AM »

Found this picture where you can see the SG a little bit (just a little bit) better:


Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
DonnyL
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1990



View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 02:50:31 PM »

They appear to have only two amps- the smaller one looks like a Bassman for Brian, and the larger one a Showman, presumably shared by Carl & Al. Notable that I’m not seeing a reverb tank (could be behind the amp).

Most likely scenarios here IMO:

1. Al just shows up, assuming the group brought David’s gear- everyone realizes they didn’t plan this very well, and Al borrow’s the other fellow’s guitar. He asks to borrow it for another later gig too (fellow of course doesn’t remember this stuff).

2. The groups arrange between one another or management to borrow the guitar for some upcoming gigs. But- how did they rehearse? Al playing along on an acoustic?

3. Al does have an electric guitar and brings it but- it’s a crappy one and he plays with another guitar whenever there is a better one available.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 02:53:12 PM by DonnyL » Logged

guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 05:29:31 PM »

By the way Carl was always careful about his onstage image but there a lot of photos of him smoking backstage-as you can see he started young-he was still 16 when they played that gig

Reminds me of Davy Jones. There are many candid and off-set photos showing him to have been a heavy smoker at his young age too, but his public image and any controlled photos never revealed it.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 05:38:58 PM »

Yeah, the two amp thing is a good call -- certainly Dave and Carl had their own amps before Dave left.  63 and early 64 are a real wasteland as far as on-stage photos go, but by the time the "Lost Concert" comes along, they have their own amps; Carl the Showman, Bri the Bassman, and Al seems to have an Ampeg??  That being said, that Ampeg may have been owned by the venue for the Lost concert, because they seem to go back to sharing the Showman for a while.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 06:15:18 PM »

A few quick items first:

Watch "The Lost Concert" footage at the beginning, when they walk on stage Al switches on the standby switch on the Fender Bassman head, and Brian goes over to the Ampeg to make some adjustments. Brian's bass was going through the Ampeg B-15 "Portaflex" bass head, Al was playing through through the Fender Bassman head and one of the two Fender reverb tanks on stage, Carl through the other reverb tank and the Showman. The Ampeg B-15 was, I believe, Brian's road bass amp, and you can see it in those "rehearsal" photos as well.

What I don't understand, or can't comprehend, is that SG. That particular model SG, white with gold hardware and custom 3-pickup design, was like the Cadillac of Gibson solidbody guitars at that time. They cost what a lot of people made in salary for a month, and I can't understand how one would be loaned out that way *unless* the same bands were playing the same bills. Was that the case with Eddie and The Showmen and The Beach Boys where photos were taken beyond the Bowl gig? You wouldn't let such a guitar be loaned out or borrowed without guarantees or money, you wouldn't spend time restringing it before a gig only to let such an instrument go on its way afterward, and I'd think someone who owned it would remember loaning it out! Again, a younger guy could buy a decent used car for the cost of that particular Gibson SG at that time.

And what's also odd is The Showmen favored Fenders most often, as did many surf bands from California in 1963, and also The Beach Boys by that time could have easily bought Al a Fender from any shop like Wallich's if needed, or could have made a trip to the factory (note Carl's Jaguar) to get something as they would soon have matching white Fenders on stage anyway.

Too many questions lol



Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4941


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 06:35:34 PM »

Perhaps the answer to "why" is this:  Dave has said that he announced his intention to leave sometime before he actually did, but the other guys didn't believe him (possibly Murray, neither). So maybe Al showed up, expecting to play bass like he usually did. Meanwhile, the Wilson clan realized Dave wasn't bluffing, forcing Brian to go to the gig and play bass at the last minute. Either that or, since it was a local gig, Brian planned to play it all along, and maybe Al showed up just to hang, and they all expected Dave to show. Either way, Al had to borrow someone else's guitar and plug into Carl's amp at the last minute.

So cool that we have documentation (photos AND an audio recording) of the first appearance of this new/old lineup...
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2021, 06:43:23 PM »

Perhaps the answer to "why" is this:  Dave has said that he announced his intention to leave sometime before he actually did, but the other guys didn't believe him (possibly Murray, neither). So maybe Al showed up, expecting to play bass like he usually did. Meanwhile, the Wilson clan realized Dave wasn't bluffing, forcing Brian to go to the gig and play bass at the last minute. Either that or, since it was a local gig, Brian planned to play it all along, and maybe Al showed up just to hang, and they all expected Dave to show. Either way, Al had to borrow someone else's guitar and plug into Carl's amp at the last minute.

So cool that we have documentation (photos AND an audio recording) of the first appearance of this new/old lineup...

Two points on that, Al is wearing the same matching stage clothes as the other guys, so that kind of rules out Al showing up just to hang unless they all wore the same clothes off-stage lol.

And the question for me that's bothersome (mostly for reasons of the value of that SG in 1963) is the later photos showing Al playing that guitar October 31 at Loyola - Were Eddie And The Showmen sharing the bill at that gig too? And by then, wouldn't Al have gotten a guitar of his own as I mentioned above?
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2021, 06:44:36 PM »

And the "owner" of the SG is shown stringing it while sitting in a Fender guitar case, not a Gibson case.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2021, 06:55:39 PM »

Craig (C.) - you say you have seen that Ampeg elsewhere?  I couldn't find another shot of it on the Gigs site, but I may have missed something.  Late 62 has all of them playing Fender piggybacks, and then lost concert era is pretty slim pickin's photo-wise, and by 64 they're already starting to move on, Amp wise, to the blackface Fenders...
Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2021, 06:57:21 PM »

Two points on that, Al is wearing the same matching stage clothes as the other guys, so that kind of rules out Al showing up just to hang unless they all wore the same clothes off-stage lol.

Craig (S.)'s point was that Al might have already been there for his normal-at-the-time rôle of stage bassist.  So he would've been prepared to play--Bass, not guitar.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 06:57:48 PM by aeijtzsche » Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2021, 07:40:59 PM »

Craig (C.) - you say you have seen that Ampeg elsewhere?  I couldn't find another shot of it on the Gigs site, but I may have missed something.  Late 62 has all of them playing Fender piggybacks, and then lost concert era is pretty slim pickin's photo-wise, and by 64 they're already starting to move on, Amp wise, to the blackface Fenders...

Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2021, 07:41:45 PM »

That's from Getty, and there are others. Same amp lineup as "Lost Concert"
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2021, 07:43:46 PM »

Two points on that, Al is wearing the same matching stage clothes as the other guys, so that kind of rules out Al showing up just to hang unless they all wore the same clothes off-stage lol.

Craig (S.)'s point was that Al might have already been there for his normal-at-the-time rôle of stage bassist.  So he would've been prepared to play--Bass, not guitar.

Either that or, since it was a local gig, Brian planned to play it all along, and maybe Al showed up just to hang, and they all expected Dave to show. Either way, Al had to borrow someone else's guitar and plug into Carl's amp at the last minute.

My reply was to Al showing up just to hang - Not unless he always wore the BB's stage clothes!  Grin
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2021, 08:10:22 PM »

That's from Getty, and there are others. Same amp lineup as "Lost Concert"

Interesting...  It must have been in use for a very short time.  This photo is supposedly from "Summer 1964" and here they're on 3 Fender piggybacks.  Note that Al is playing Carl's Jag, which is interesting because it seems like there were a couple gigs where Al's strat was out of commission between Oct 19th-Nov 25th -- Al's on the Jaguar during that stretch.  If Brian used that Ampeg starting sometime after Y-day in Oct 63 but had abandoned it by circa Oct 64, that's not a long time of service!



Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2021, 08:20:01 PM »

Quite a big gap between photos where Al's playing the SG and Brian the Sunburst Fender Bass and when they both have their Olympic White Fender instruments.  Wonder if that's more pinpointable when they got those exactly...
Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2021, 09:25:20 PM »

So here's another question that I've been trying to get an more exact answer to:

When was Carl's jaguar stolen?  His first Rickenbacker was stolen around Dec 27th, 1964, which likely had some part to play in the appearance of the prototype Fender XII, which he has by December 30.  We can't tell exactly when he gets his new Rick (or at least, brings it out on the road) but it happened sometime before April 12th 1965.  During that time, he wasn't really ever Playing 6 string on stage, so the Jag would've been in the background anyway.  But the last photo I can find of the Jaguar is around the end of 64, around TAMI show time.

The next time I can find a photo of Carl playing a 6-string guitar on stage is the Guild Starfire VI that would be his primary 6-string stage guitar through 65 and into 66.
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 10622


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2021, 02:41:36 AM »

I just saw the following comment from Steve Hoffman on facebook, when he posted the '63 picture of the Boys at the Bowl in 2012:


The Beach Boys closing the show at Hollywood Bowl, October, 1963. On the same concert for the YMCA were Jan & Dean, legendary surf band The Challengers, Eddie & the Showmen, etc. This was the Beach Boys first show after the departure of guitarist David Marks (14 days earlier), so it was Al's first appearance as a guitarist, rather than as a bassist (you can see him looking at Carl's hands to see what chord he's playing). 49 years later, June 2nd, 2012, the Beach Boys played a sold out Hollywood Bowl show on their milestone 50th Anniversary tour. Of course, David Marks was back in the group!

It looks like Al Jardine may be playing Brett Brady's Gibson SG guitar. Randy Nauert would know for sure..




But Brett is on Facebook as well and answered:

Yes that's my old 'fretless wonder'.. Al needed something and as i recall really liked this SG and so we were scheduled to play first i said sure... i remember he broke a string thus the picture of me backstage re-stringing the "b" .or "e" .. -





It seems like Randy Nauert died about a year ago.


https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=337915956289267&set=a.105811056166426
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 03:03:10 AM by Rocker » Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4941


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2021, 04:59:28 AM »

The SG is fretless??
Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2021, 06:25:47 AM »

The SG is fretless??

That seems...very unlikely.

Also this still doesn't explain why Al still has the guitar a couple weeks later at Loyola.
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 10622


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2021, 07:11:52 AM »

'fretless wonder'

Note the single quotation marks. Possibly this was a nickname or something similar that we just don't understand. Clearly it is not fretless and I'm sure Brady is well aware of this  Grin
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.827 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!