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Author Topic: Mike November 1982 Jamaica Music Fest Interview Crashed by Dennis (and Gage)  (Read 4739 times)
Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2020, 02:45:22 PM »


So if you don't want any part of discussing the *well-documented* issues between Dennis and Mike, that's fine, but then it kind of negates analyzing a video of Dennis crashing a Mike interview, putting his hand on Mike's neck while Mike stays completely rigid, and then introducing Mike's alleged grandson/nephew only to make a quick exit.


I don't. Enjoy the next 30 pages.
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2020, 02:56:13 PM »

It was a soap opera of course.

It's fascinating. Look at this footage. Mike is sweaty, in the middle of the night backstage waiting to go on in the middle of the night (or early morning) at a music festival in Jamaica, while Brian has literally just left to go off with Landy because he was so far off the rails, and meanwhile the Dennis/Shawn thing is happening, and you have Dennis crashing this innocuous (probably never to be broadcast) video interview.

How could someone be sitting there and not think "What am I doing with my career? With my life?"

Maybe the answers were mainly "I'm doing the only thing I know how to do" and "I'm making significant amounts of money."

It's fascinating as well that this band never appears to have ever considered, you know, taking a year off or six months off (notwithstanding early 1977). I think Carl has mentioned that he felt the band should tour every other year to build up demand and not water down the brand. But overall, it appears nobody at the end of 1982 thought "Well, Brian's in really bad shape and we have to fake-fire him to get him to Landy. Dennis is still drinking, and then the whole Shawn/Gage thing. No new albums in the offing. Maybe we should take a break for six months."

Mike even had his side gig going with Dean in 1982/83 if he was so intent on keeping active live and bringing in some money.

But the BB gigs never stopped.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was intense debate internally about whether to even cancel that *small* number of early 1984 gigs that they canceled in the wake of Dennis's passing. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was thinking if not saying "Well, Dennis wasn't even at most of the gigs at the end of last year, sooo....."
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2020, 03:09:33 PM »

It was a soap opera of course.

It's fascinating. Look at this footage. Mike is sweaty, in the middle of the night backstage waiting to go on in the middle of the night (or early morning) at a music festival in Jamaica, while Brian has literally just left to go off with Landy because he was so far off the rails, and meanwhile the Dennis/Shawn thing is happening, and you have Dennis crashing this innocuous (probably never to be broadcast) video interview.

How could someone be sitting there and not think "What am I doing with my career? With my life?"

Maybe the answers were mainly "I'm doing the only thing I know how to do" and "I'm making significant amounts of money."

It's fascinating as well that this band never appears to have ever considered, you know, taking a year off or six months off (notwithstanding early 1977). I think Carl has mentioned that he felt the band should tour every other year to build up demand and not water down the brand. But overall, it appears nobody at the end of 1982 thought "Well, Brian's in really bad shape and we have to fake-fire him to get him to Landy. Dennis is still drinking, and then the whole Shawn/Gage thing. No new albums in the offing. Maybe we should take a break for six months."

Mike even had his side gig going with Dean in 1982/83 if he was so intent on keeping active live and bringing in some money.

But the BB gigs never stopped.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was intense debate internally about whether to even cancel that *small* number of early 1984 gigs that they canceled in the wake of Dennis's passing. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was thinking if not saying "Well, Dennis wasn't even at most of the gigs at the end of last year, sooo....."

Some time off would have been at least healthy from a standpoint of evaluating their lives, and maybe helping to focus on getting sober/healthy, but not only was the money too enticing, but some people don't want to stop and actually take a look at some deep issues, which the escapism of the road afforded a great distraction from.

Mike especially, with his corny side projects at this time, seemed comically hell bent on never leaving the road for a moment. But yeah, I get that it must have been a fun, intoxicating, money-generating thing, the only thing he knew since 20 years old. The road in and of itself was/is an addiction for some. I think ultimately it was perhaps Mike-driven fear of the band losing popularity or traction, that if they took a year off, that maybe it would harder to get back to playing big venues again, or that the band would splinter. It's definitely weird though, especially considering that  it seems like a no-brainer  for them to take some time off with this much dysfunction happening. Maybe each ex-wife that piled onto the alimony payments made them (mainly Mike) that much more fanatical about never leaving one red cent on the table when it's money that could have padded their pockets.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 03:12:40 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2020, 03:56:11 PM »

On the one hand, you'd think it would be easier to take some time off in late 1982 to avoid answering the "Where's Brian/How's Brian?" questions. But we must remember that in 1981/82/83, prior to the Watt thing in the summer of '83, the BBs were at a pretty low ebb as far as media attention/scrutiny. The fact that they did a run of gigs at Sun City in 1981/82 and nobody cared is one indicator of the lack of attention even the dedicated rock press was giving the band.

If you imagine Carl's 1981 departure as permanent, then watch 1981 BB gigs, and then watch those 1982/83 interviews with Mike & Dean (and their accompanying gigs), you can envision the whole BB thing severely imploding within a few more years. The brand could have ended up as Lou Christie doing gigs in Laughlin, Nevada instead of doing stadiums in the mid 80s.
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2020, 11:02:38 PM »

That's a good point. James Watt unwittingly got the Beach Boys back in the headlines, and increased demand in them as a live act. The irony that this happened while Brian was getting his act together again, and Dennis was falling apart, is not lost on me.
I must say, though, that it bothers me a bit how drug abusing, self destructive Beach Boy is seen as the "good guy" here versus the clean living one.
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« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2020, 10:11:14 AM »

Why can't it just be a beautiful moment of a father showing off his son? I love how Dennis calls him "sweet baby Gage", and then says his full name.
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« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2020, 01:36:09 PM »

Of course it usually depends whose side you're on in the whole Sonny Wilson vs. Cassius Love saga. I've always been a Wilson supporter and have been very forgiving of the Wilson foibles.  I wonder though how we would feel if Mike had brought Manson into the Boy's circle and married Dennis's daughter and been a habitual drug and booze abuser. I guess some people would hate him even more than they do now... if that's possible.
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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2020, 04:08:36 PM »

The sound of the video is quite bad.

What does Dennis say to Mike just before he leaves?
He puts his hand on Mike's shoulder and says "I just wanted to..." What?
"Show him to you."

Then Mike says "Good" with a grinning fake smile.

Is that what he says? "Show him to you"?
Sorry, but I can't tell for sure with the noise in the background.

And then Mike goes on a tirade about Brian not having any breaks and overeating. And he's rolling his eyes when he says the words "psychiatric program".

This video is sad but fascinating. An amazing find!

« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 04:33:15 PM by Toursiveu » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2020, 04:19:03 PM »

Also, when the interviewer talks about Mike's collaboration with Jan and Dean, he says : "It's like a little Rolling Thunder Revue, isn't it?"... And Mike's weird answer makes me wonder if he has any idea what the interviewer's talking about.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 04:33:53 PM by Toursiveu » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2020, 11:31:36 PM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.
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« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2020, 06:20:30 AM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.

Except when the interviewer asks Dennis to hold the baby up for the camera, Dennis says no. If he just wanted to show the baby "on TV", wouldn't he have said "Sure!" and struck a close-up pose for the camera?

It's absurd to ignore the subtext of this footage, and to suggest f***ing with Mike, and f***ing even harder with him by doing it *on camera*, wasn't a big part of what this was about. At the *very* least, even if we ignore all of that and just pretend Dennis just wanted to be on TV, it would be absurd for *Dennis* to not think Mike would be uncomfortable given the back story of the baby and Dennis's wife, especially considering that as of November 1982, I don't think the information was being vigorously reported by the rock press.

Man, I wish I could be oblivious enough to watch that footage and not see any tension, awkwardness, or intensity. Who knows, maybe some of the actual Beach Boys (though not Dennis or Mike in this scenario) actually shut their brain off and had to be oblivious to this stuff to get through it.

Considering what was going on with the band internally in November 1982, it's pretty funny to suggest everything's hunky dory in this footage. I've obviously never been a Mike apologist, but whether you feel bad for him or not, or whether you think he deserves this or that, or whether you think this or that is his fault or not, to watch that footage, to watch Mike try to get into what was going on with Brian (late 1982 literally being Brian's lowest point ever, arguably anyway), and then have the Shawn/Gage/Dennis thing *literally* thrust into his face during a video interview, and not notice you're watching a dude with a TON of baggage on his shoulders in real time, is to ignore so, so much.
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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2020, 07:29:37 AM »

I just hope everyone here finds a significant other that looks at you the way Mike Love looks at Dennis...



In all seriousness, that look Mike gives toward Dennis when Dennis is the leaving the camera view is jolting every time I watch it. Must've been some pretty bad blood between those guys.
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« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2020, 08:11:43 AM »

I think that’s the look Mike has when reading OSD’s posts! Grin
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« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2020, 08:29:02 AM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.

Thank you!
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« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2020, 08:41:40 AM »

Who knows, maybe some of the actual Beach Boys (though not Dennis or Mike in this scenario) actually shut their brain off and had to be oblivious to this stuff to get through it.

Based on my very limited reading of Mike's responses when questioned about Shawn Love, it seems his approach to that subject has been to shut his brain off, or not acknowledge it, perhaps to get through it who knows.
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« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2020, 09:47:02 AM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.
I'm pretty sure he said "I just wanted to show him to you". It seemed like he was looking at Mike when he said it.
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« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2020, 10:56:55 AM »

I think that’s the look Mike has when reading OSD’s posts! Grin

LOL right??
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« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2020, 12:28:03 PM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.
I'm pretty sure he said "I just wanted to show him to you". It seemed like he was looking at Mike when he said it.

Which also helps to explain why, when the interviewer asks Dennis to pose with the baby for the camera, he demurs. This is about Mike (and Mike being in front of a camera perhaps), not about "being on TV."

One might also ask "Hasn't Mike already seen the baby by now?" I guess the answer is that we don't know. Gage was born at the beginning of September 1982, so the baby was only about 10 or 11 weeks old during this footage. Also, the Beach Boys had only played around a half dozen gigs in October and November prior to this gig (and I'm not sure Dennis was at all of those gigs). So this may have been one of the first times the baby was brought to a gig, and could have been the first time Mike had seen the baby. If not, certainly one of the early times. I get the sense Mike and Dennis weren't hanging together a lot backstage at gigs when they *were* both at the gig.

It would be even more intense if this literally was the first time Dennis had shown the baby to Mike.
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« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2020, 01:10:30 PM »

I think that’s the look Mike has when reading OSD’s posts! Grin
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2020, 03:26:35 PM »

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.

I think for anyone to know the history and to think there wasn't an element of Dennis trying to rub Mike's face in the mud here is an example of cognitive dissonance. Not trying to be insulting when I say that, I just honestly don't know how it's possible to interpret the video in this manner.

I mean, Mike had a RESTRAINING ORDER against Dennis to keep Dennis physically away from him in the not-too-distant past from this point in time. And Dennis repeatedly knocked Mike's hat off his head ONSTAGE with an intent to purposefully embarrass Mike (unless someone wants to concoct a different reason why Dennis would do the hat knockoff). Mike must have gotten under Dennis' skin SO much that Dennis wanted to cut Mike where it hurt as much as possible. It's very tragic, but it was Dennis lashing out in maybe the only way he knew how.  Mike obviously had pulled some power maneuvers that didn't sit well with Dennis, and/or Dennis felt severely disenfranchised and stuck by Mike's actions. Plus of course Dennis got severely beat up by Mike's brother, the list goes on.  It's not a completely black-and-white situation, I understand that too. Dennis was in a very bad place and his alcoholism made everything worse.

Doesn't make Dennis's spitefulness against Mike exactly "right", but as I said earlier I feel Mike must have done some very deeply f*cked up stuff to Dennis in order for Dennis to feel/act this way, behavior like that - especially directed at a family member - doesn't come out of nowhere. And honestly I empathize with Dennis because I think Mike has shown a history of acting unbelievably selfishly in the band at the expense of those around him, and at the expense of great art and creative potential being stifled. That was probably something that had built up in Dennis' psyche over the years, plus a host of other stuff none of us can/will ever grasp because we didn't live it.

If we kept researching, I'm sure we could find many other similar ugly instances of family drama between these 2 folks in the early 1980s. Since Shawn was Mike's daughter (and everyone around him knew it), but Mike was dragging his feet and kept denying paternity, why is it difficult to think that Dennis was trying to f*ck with Mike? It's plain as day.

To think otherwise is to think that Dennis and Mike just made up and became buddies, and were totally hunky dory, and that Gage's mom wasn't Mike's daughter who he denied paternity of. None of that happened, and pretending this is just Dennis innocuously showing off his kid on TV is just mental acrobatics I cannot grasp.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 03:36:55 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2020, 03:37:42 PM »

Unlike perhaps certain people in the community, Dennis can hate Mike and equally not have every action and decision he makes be based around hating Mike.

If we are going to make arguments with lots of assumptions and "must have"s, it's well known that Dennis adored Gage and so he must have wanted to show him to everyone, including say the tv people.
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« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2020, 04:00:03 PM »

Unlike perhaps certain people in the community, Dennis can hate Mike and equally not have every action and decision he makes be based around hating Mike.

If we are going to make arguments with lots of assumptions and "must have"s, it's well known that Dennis adored Gage and so he must have wanted to show him to everyone, including say the tv people.

I think that Dennis probably did simply want to show off his kid to the camera motivated simply out of being a proud dad - and if it had been someone else, for example, Al being interviewed at that moment in time - Dennis might well have done the same thing, and walked into view with his baby. That's entirely possible too. It doesn't mean an innocent motivation scenario, plus Dennis' probable desire to f*ck with Mike in a passive aggressive manner - which of course could easily be denied and explained away as merely showing off his kid - are mutually exclusive. They can both be true to some degree.

Dennis and Mike had a severely soured relationship, plus Dennis' family unit at that moment was something that I doubt Mike could look at and not think about how he (Mike) dropped the ball as a father.

So even if the thought of how Mike would react to this happening on videotape somehow didn't even cross Dennis' mind whatsoever (as seems to be your claim?), I'm sure Mike's own connection to the Dennis/Shawn/Gage trio crossed Mike's mind during this interview.

And I'm sure Mike was worrying in the back of his mind how he'd respond if Dennis mentioned something to the interviewer about Mike being Gage's grandfather. I mean, that would just put Mike in THE most awkward position, and especially in a public manner on videotape....  that fear of how this all could unfold - if Dennis decided to push some buttons even further - is exactly what Dennis could hold over Mike's head at that moment in time.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 04:03:59 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2020, 04:30:57 PM »

Unlike perhaps certain people in the community, Dennis can hate Mike and equally not have every action and decision he makes be based around hating Mike.

If we are going to make arguments with lots of assumptions and "must have"s, it's well known that Dennis adored Gage and so he must have wanted to show him to everyone, including say the tv people.

I think that Dennis probably did simply want to show off his kid to the camera motivated simply out of being a proud dad - and if it had been someone else, for example, Al being interviewed at that moment in time - Dennis might well have done the same thing, and walked into view with his baby. That's entirely possible too. It doesn't mean an innocent motivation scenario, plus Dennis' probable desire to f*ck with Mike in a passive aggressive manner - which of course could easily be denied and explained away as merely showing off his kid - are mutually exclusive. They can both be true to some degree.

Dennis and Mike had a severely soured relationship, plus Dennis' family unit at that moment was something that I doubt Mike could look at and not think about how he (Mike) dropped the ball as a father.

So even if the thought of how Mike would react to this happening on videotape somehow didn't even cross Dennis' mind whatsoever (as seems to be your claim?), I'm sure Mike's own connection to the Dennis/Shawn/Gage trio crossed Mike's mind during this interview.

And I'm sure Mike was worrying in the back of his mind how he'd respond if Dennis mentioned something to the interviewer about Mike being Gage's grandfather. I mean, that would just put Mike in THE most awkward position, and especially in a public manner on videotape....  that fear of how this all could unfold - if Dennis decided to push some buttons even further - is exactly what Dennis could hold over Mike's head at that moment in time.

That's such a great point.  In real time, ML had no idea whether Denny was going to blurt out something along the lines of "Meet your grandson!" 
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« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2020, 04:35:57 PM »

Unlike perhaps certain people in the community, Dennis can hate Mike and equally not have every action and decision he makes be based around hating Mike.

If we are going to make arguments with lots of assumptions and "must have"s, it's well known that Dennis adored Gage and so he must have wanted to show him to everyone, including say the tv people.

I think that Dennis probably did simply want to show off his kid to the camera motivated simply out of being a proud dad - and if it had been someone else, for example, Al being interviewed at that moment in time - Dennis might well have done the same thing, and walked into view with his baby. That's entirely possible too. It doesn't mean an innocent motivation scenario, plus Dennis' probable desire to f*ck with Mike in a passive aggressive manner - which of course could easily be denied and explained away as merely showing off his kid - are mutually exclusive. They can both be true to some degree.

Dennis and Mike had a severely soured relationship, plus Dennis' family unit at that moment was something that I doubt Mike could look at and not think about how he (Mike) dropped the ball as a father.

So even if the thought of how Mike would react to this happening on videotape somehow didn't even cross Dennis' mind whatsoever (as seems to be your claim?), I'm sure Mike's own connection to the Dennis/Shawn/Gage trio crossed Mike's mind during this interview.

And I'm sure Mike was worrying in the back of his mind how he'd respond if Dennis mentioned something to the interviewer about Mike being Gage's grandfather. I mean, that would just put Mike in THE most awkward position, and especially in a public manner on videotape....  that fear of how this all could unfold - if Dennis decided to push some buttons even further - is exactly what Dennis could hold over Mike's head at that moment in time.

That's such a great point.  In real time, ML had no idea whether Denny was going to blurt out something along the lines of "Meet your grandson!"  

And considering their history of then-recent acrimony, I can't understand how anybody could logically think Mike would consider such a scenario as to be so out of the question as to be something he wouldn't even remotely worry about. Especially if alcohol were involved and inhibitions were lowered even further.

Of course Mike was worrying about that, and of course Dennis knew Mike would worry about it and that's the whole point. Sad but true.

Mike obviously didn't mention on camera that this was his own grandson either, because it wasn't something he wanted the interviewer to know or inquire further about.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 04:39:29 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2020, 06:18:00 PM »

Dennis does a similar “interview crash” around 7:55 here:

https://youtu.be/dbQZkKzV4O0

Being of the opinion that Dennis’ PRIMARY motivation is simply to show off his son doesn’t mean one is ignoring subtext or being willfully ignorant to the tensions around the band.

It just means that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I think Mike is definitely thinking, “here comes Dennis, carrying a baby, hope he doesn’t do anything weird”. But that doesn’t mean Dennis is trying to use his son to bait Mike and make an uncomfortable scene and that Mike is afraid of being “exposed” on camera.
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