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Author Topic: Mike November 1982 Jamaica Music Fest Interview Crashed by Dennis (and Gage)  (Read 4741 times)
HeyJude
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« on: December 17, 2020, 07:34:46 AM »

From that "Historic Films" archive, Elora has posted on YouTube what would normally be the most mundane interview clip ever, but it ends up being an amazingly awkward, tense, very rare look at the Mike/Dennis relationship near the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAq0AD38ps

This appears to be before the BB gig at the Jamaica Music Fest in November 1982. The first few minutes is standard Mike interview fare, and then Dennis briefly crashes the interview, holding Gage.......

Watch Mike's face for the next minute or so starting when he notices Dennis coming in....



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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 07:49:05 AM »

And I'm not trying to make this about fandom or fan scholarship or whatever, but if you watch this video and *don't* see the heavy, intense subtext, then it's probably best to read up more, because watching this thing is like watching the Zapruder film.

Dennis isn't trying to get on camera (as he makes it clear at the end as he walks off). This is about him and Mike, and about making Mike squirm (and on camera to boot).

Mike's eyes darting over to Dennis, Dennis grabbing Mike's neck, Mike going as rigid and stiff as he possibly can, Mike's most intense grinning-through-gritted teeth of all time, Dennis patting Mike's shoulder.

Whatever you think about who (if anybody) is the villain/deviant in the whole Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage saga, it's undeniably AMAZING that something like this *randomly* was captured on video and has resurfaced nearly 40 years later.
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2020, 08:03:50 AM »

It's actually soon BEFORE their appearance, as right after Dennis and Gage walk off, the interviewer asks Mike when they expect to go on, and Mike replies "Hopefully after this next group".
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2020, 08:13:15 AM »

It's actually soon BEFORE their appearance, as right after Dennis and Gage walk off, the interviewer asks Mike when they expect to go on, and Mike replies "Hopefully after this next group".

Which will now perpetually make listening to that Jamaica Fest recording much more interesting!
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2020, 08:14:41 AM »

Maybe it's just a proud father showing off his son?
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2020, 08:19:03 AM »

Maybe it's just a proud father showing off his son?

Undoubtedly. But as far as this video, it's not just that. Not even close.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2020, 08:31:16 AM »

Well, I thought this was a nice video. Thanks for posting! If I didn't know what happened between Mike and Dennis and that Gage was Mike's grandson, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything here. It seems to me that Dennis only wanted to show his son to the camera.
But I won't say that you are wrong. The situation, if known to the viewer, is obviously strange. It just didn't feel that way to me while watching.



EDIT:

BTW, there obviously is a recording of that show. Was that a radio broadcast? And was the show filmed (so I could add that to the pro shot concerts list, if it isn't already there)?
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2020, 08:36:59 AM »

I'm curious if the "Entertainment Tonight" news piece exists somewhere.
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 09:54:11 AM »

Dennis looks and sounds in reasonable shape there, compared to the widely seen appearance at the July 4 appearance (?) 7-8 months later (?)
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2020, 11:23:07 AM »

Mike did seem uncomfortable, likely because as was usually the case with Dennis, he never knew exactly what Denis was going to do. And I 'm sure he was holding his breath that Dennis didn't say something like "say Hi to your Grandpa, Gage" something that would have opened a whole new piece of the interview...to his chagrin.
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2020, 01:10:24 PM »

I'm curious if the "Entertainment Tonight" news piece exists somewhere.

I don't think it's an "Entertainment Tonight" crew. I'm not sure if Mike was just making it up, or if this was a freelance crew that might later sell the footage to a TV show or something like that.

This vendor of random and archival/stock footage seems to have a bunch of instances (perhaps the same guy?) following around Mike and Dean in 1982/83 on multiple tours and shooting parts of their shows.
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2020, 01:16:34 PM »

Well, I thought this was a nice video. Thanks for posting! If I didn't know what happened between Mike and Dennis and that Gage was Mike's grandson, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything here. It seems to me that Dennis only wanted to show his son to the camera.
But I won't say that you are wrong. The situation, if known to the viewer, is obviously strange. It just didn't feel that way to me while watching.



EDIT:

BTW, there obviously is a recording of that show. Was that a radio broadcast? And was the show filmed (so I could add that to the pro shot concerts list, if it isn't already there)?

I don't think the Jamaica Music Fest show was videotaped. It's possible this same guy doing the interview, who may be the same guy who shot interviews and concert footage of multiple "Mike & Dean" shows in 1982/1983, may have also shot some b-roll footage of the actual BB Jamaica Fest show, but I don't think it has surfaced if it exists. Not sure where the long-circulating soundboard audio recording comes from.

As for the Mike/Dennis thing, I think that's the point. To those not in the know (including the interviewer I'm guessing!), it probably seems relatively innocuous.

But if you know what the deal is with Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage, and also the personal and professional issues/politics at play, it's very clear this is most assuredly *not* just Dennis wanting to show his son off to the camera. Indeed, when the interviewer asks Dennis to stop so they can get more footage of him and his son, Dennis says no. He clearly wanted to make a point to and about Mike in this brief instance.

Look, I'm not trying to blow this up into the biggest deal ever. It's obviously more about the symbolic nature of what this footage represents. But it's truly a tense moment knowing the back story.

Imagine uncovering footage of Mike watching Van Dyke Parks compose lyrics in 1966, or an interview where Mike is talking about songwriting where Murry Wilson bursts in and talks about how great a job Brian did writing those hits all by himself.
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2020, 01:17:46 PM »

Dennis looks and sounds in reasonable shape there, compared to the widely seen appearance at the July 4 appearance (?) 7-8 months later (?)

Dennis seems to yo-yo in terms of how good or bad he looked during this era. I've seen pretty late era 1983 photos where he looks pretty good, and I've also seen 1981 pics/footage (e.g. that Dick Clark 30th Anniversary TV special) where Dennis looks awful.
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2020, 02:25:12 PM »

This is a truly remarkable video of historical significance.

Makes me wonder - Did Mike actually, legitimately think/suspect that Shawn was not his own child (and that she was just pretending to be)... or did Mike begin to feel certain that she was his own daughter, but didn't want to deal with the emotional/financial implications? I suppose nobody can say for sure, but I find it hard to believe the former, especially since she looked JUST like Mike, and insiders who would know have said that EVERYONE in the know in the circle of the band had zero doubt that Shawn was Mike's flesh and blood.

Maybe Mike at first was hesitant to believe it, but perhaps got caught up in his own lie of denial, even when the truth became obvious. That's the most I can give him here. Because I can't imagine how detrimental it was to Shawn for her own dad to deny that he was her dad.  That's truly messed up. Somebody who was raised without a father, to then reach out to their own father and get rejected... not just rejected, but for the father to deny that they are the father despite what had to have been evidence to the contrary... that is something which I have no words for. If I'm missing something here, I welcome someone to chime in, because I can't claim to know the whole story, but it is heartbreaking to think about.

While Dennis was no angel, and was in a bad place, and was going about things in his own undeniably messed-up manner, I can at least appreciate that he seemed to be the only person in the band who was regularly intent (even indirectly, as in here) on calling Mike out for what had to be pattern of emotionally damaging behavior adversely affecting a family member. I can't say I disagree with what I think was a portion of Dennis' aim here, that a parent who rejects their own child should be called out on it.

But the whole thing is just incredibly sad.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 02:33:42 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2020, 12:46:33 AM »

Dennis looks and sounds in reasonable shape there, compared to the widely seen appearance at the July 4 appearance (?) 7-8 months later (?)

Dennis seems to yo-yo in terms of how good or bad he looked during this era. I've seen pretty late era 1983 photos where he looks pretty good, and I've also seen 1981 pics/footage (e.g. that Dick Clark 30th Anniversary TV special) where Dennis looks awful.

His appearance seemed to change a lot in his final years. I agree he looks OK here (all things considered), although significantly older than he actually was.

I found this footage incredibly fascinating; I'll leave it at that.
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2020, 02:02:12 AM »

Well, let's say that hopefully this little piece of footage will be a nice surprise for Gage. I don't know if he has any relationship with his grandfather and here he at least has footage of himself with Mike (and his father of course).
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2020, 07:08:46 AM »

With due respect to everyone, he possibly looks nervous because Dennis is "probably" under the influence and carrying a baby around.

If an accident happens on camera, then the Beach Boys brand and Mike's $$$ are in trouble.
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2020, 07:42:36 AM »

Greek Tragedy levels to see Dennis like this.... Undecided
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2020, 10:24:42 AM »

Apart from the subtext here which is wonderful, this was the year that Mike shaved off his beard. It's hard to believe this is the same guy from 1970-'71, Mike's" hillbilly- Jesus " period. He shaved off about 20 years and really does look great. The way that Dennis nonchalantly walks in literally carrying Mike's guilt in his arms is hilarious.
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2020, 12:56:31 PM »

With due respect to everyone, he possibly looks nervous because Dennis is "probably" under the influence and carrying a baby around.

If an accident happens on camera, then the Beach Boys brand and Mike's $$$ are in trouble.

You really think Mike's more uncomfortable about the possibility of Dennis, like what, dropping the baby, and thus Mike getting sued, than he is uncomfortable because Dennis is thrusting in front of his face all of that family baggage and controversy (on camera to boot)?

My second post in this thread was based on my instinct that someone would try to explain how this video *doesn't* have anything to do with the Mike/Shawn/Dennis situation/dysfunction.

Certainly, Dennis liked showing off his baby; he was proud. And certainly, probably most times past 1970-something, the other guys in the band were nervous about Dennis being under the influence. All of that is going on in this video. But it's also much more than just that.

Dennis is making a point to Mike, and I'm sure this wasn't the only time he did it. It just happens to have mind-blowingly been caught on video in this instance.

I'm not sure if folks are trying to be defensive of Mike when it comes to this video. That would ironic, because the *obvious* implications I've been talking about in this video certainly don't reflect particularly great on *Dennis* either. The general idea with this video is that, at least in part, Dennis is f**king with Mike by showing the baby born to Mike's cousin and Mike's alleged daughter. Whatever theoretical wrongs Mike may have possibly committed in this scenario, Dennis doing *that* was not a healing/healthy moment for anybody. It would only be antagonistic and further dysfunctional.

I'm not passing final judgment on anybody here.

It's just a really interesting piece of video from an historical perspective, with *clear* heavy interpersonal/emotional/familial/political undertones and implications.
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2020, 01:17:33 PM »

With due respect to everyone, he possibly looks nervous because Dennis is "probably" under the influence and carrying a baby around.

If an accident happens on camera, then the Beach Boys brand and Mike's $$$ are in trouble.

You really think Mike's more uncomfortable about the possibility of Dennis, like what, dropping the baby, and thus Mike getting sued, than he is uncomfortable because Dennis is thrusting in front of his face all of that family baggage and controversy (on camera to boot)?

My second post in this thread was based on my instinct that someone would try to explain how this video *doesn't* have anything to do with the Mike/Shawn/Dennis situation/dysfunction.

Certainly, Dennis liked showing off his baby; he was proud. And certainly, probably most times past 1970-something, the other guys in the band were nervous about Dennis being under the influence. All of that is going on in this video. But it's also much more than just that.

Dennis is making a point to Mike, and I'm sure this wasn't the only time he did it. It just happens to have mind-blowingly been caught on video in this instance.

I'm not sure if folks are trying to be defensive of Mike when it comes to this video. That would ironic, because the *obvious* implications I've been talking about in this video certainly don't reflect particularly great on *Dennis* either. The general idea with this video is that, at least in part, Dennis is f**king with Mike by showing the baby born to Mike's cousin and Mike's alleged daughter. Whatever theoretical wrongs Mike may have possibly committed in this scenario, Dennis doing *that* was not a healing/healthy moment for anybody. It would only be antagonistic and further dysfunctional.

I'm not passing final judgment on anybody here.

It's just a really interesting piece of video from an historical perspective, with *clear* heavy interpersonal/emotional/familial/political undertones and implications.

Don't even think about dragging me into a Mike vs Dennis thing. I'm not interested.

I'm just saying how I saw the video. Not defending Mike at all. I'm a big Dennis fan for the record.

I don't detect any animosity between them here just awkwardness from the possible reasons I already mentioned.

That's how I see it. Could well be wrong but then you might be too.
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2020, 02:24:22 PM »

I'll say this much - while I'm not fully defending the dysfunctional behavior that got caught on film, I believe that there must have been some DEEP, DEEP reasons why Dennis had so much profound spite and issues with Mike.

Meaning, in my estimation, Mike must have done some bad, hurtful stuff on a profoundly personal, cutting level to Dennis, in order for Dennis to be so vengeful as to want to embarrass Mike like that (this also goes back to Dennis knocking off Mike's hat onstage, etc). Obviously, their lifestyles and "clean living" vs. substance issues were a part of the differences that grew between those guys, but that is absolutely not the only thing that happened between them.

I think the resentment that Dennis must have had toward Mike had a big part to do with the band's artistic atrophy that Dennis probably viewed Mike as being chiefly responsible for, or at least for Mike being the cheerleader of that more than anyone else. I have heard insiders blame Mike for the loss of Brother Studio, and even if it was much more complicated that *just* Mike, I have to think that Dennis had those resentments too. Dennis' behavior didn't just come from nowhere, after all.

Al was Mr. Clean Living too, but we never saw Dennis go after Al repeatedly like that.

Am I saying Mike brought all this on himself? Not quite sure how to feel about that. Maybe. But honestly I am certainly curious why Dennis had THAT much of a problem with Mike, to that massive a level. Maybe one day we'll know. So very sad, but I think everyone wants to better understand how/why these relationships devolved the way they did, because it's part of the story, like it or not.

But the bottom line is, as much as the dysfunction is messed up and not right, I feel like Dennis had some absolutely legit bones to pick with Mike that are so often overlooked and dismissed because it's easy to just focus on the clean living vs. self medicating lifestyle stuff and chalk it all up to that.

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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2020, 02:30:41 PM »

Don't even think about dragging me into a Mike vs Dennis thing. I'm not interested.

I'm just saying how I saw the video. Not defending Mike at all. I'm a big Dennis fan for the record.

I don't detect any animosity between them here just awkwardness from the possible reasons I already mentioned.

That's how I see it. Could well be wrong but then you might be too.

Obviously anybody can interpret it any which way.

I just think that those who are familiar with the history of the band and its members typically share some amount of common understanding/vocabulary, so certain things are *painfully obvious*.

It's like, you can watch Dennis on that 1980 Good Morning America group appearance and just come away saying "Well, I guess Dennis was a little tired that day", or you can process that through the history of the band and realize the obvious things going on.

And as far as a "Dennis vs. Mike thing", this clip is ABSOLUTELY literally about "a Dennis vs. Mike" situation. Mike's cousin and bandmate sleeps with, marries, and has a child with Mike's alleged daughter. All the while before, during, and after that all takes place, there are continued substance abuse problems and a myriad of internecine interpersonal/band/artistic/corporate issues.

So if you don't want any part of discussing the *well-documented* issues between Dennis and Mike, that's fine, but then it kind of negates analyzing a video of Dennis crashing a Mike interview, putting his hand on Mike's neck while Mike stays completely rigid, and then introducing Mike's alleged grandson/nephew only to make a quick exit.

It's like, if you don't want any part of talking about the Beatles and Yoko, then dissecting "Let It Be" footage and audio probably isn't going to work either.
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2020, 02:35:33 PM »

I'll say this much - while I'm not fully defending the dysfunctional behavior that got caught on film, I believe that there must have been some DEEP, DEEP reasons why Dennis had so much profound spite and issues with Mike.

Meaning, in my estimation, Mike must have done some bad, hurtful stuff on a profoundly personal, cutting level to Dennis, in order for Dennis to be so vengeful as to want to embarrass Mike like that (this also goes back to Dennis knocking off Mike's hat onstage, etc). Obviously, their lifestyles and "clean living" vs. substance issues were a part of the differences that grew between those guys, but that is absolutely not the only thing that happened between them.

I think the resentment that Dennis must have had toward Mike had a big part to do with the band's artistic atrophy that Dennis probably viewed Mike as being chiefly responsible for, or at least for Mike being the cheerleader of that more than anyone else. I have heard insiders blame Mike for the loss of Brother Studio, and even if it was much more complicated that *just* Mike, I have to think that Dennis had those resentments too. Dennis' behavior didn't just come from nowhere, after all.

Al was Mr. Clean Living too, but we never saw Dennis go after Al repeatedly like that.

Am I saying Mike brought all this on himself? Not quite sure how to feel about that. Maybe. But honestly I am certainly curious why Dennis had THAT much of a problem with Mike, to that massive a level. Maybe one day we'll know. So very sad, but I think everyone wants to better understand how/why these relationships devolved the way they did, because it's part of the story, like it or not.

But the bottom line is, as much as the dysfunction is messed up and not right, I feel like Dennis had some absolutely legit bones to pick with Mike that are so often overlooked and dismissed because it's easy to just focus on the clean living vs. self medicating lifestyle stuff and chalk it all up to that.

Look at it this way; Dennis and Mike had MANY, MANY issues *before* Dennis married and had a child with Mike's alleged daughter. Knowing that and then watching this video and just shrugging one's shoulders, as if Dennis was just a proud father and Mike was looking on joyously during that interview, and/or that Mike was only concerned about some sort of injury liability issues vis-a-vis Dennis (which, if true, would mean they would have never brought Dennis back into the touring band) is inexplicable in my opinion.

I'm not even getting into how to judge these guys. I'm just really pointing out at that footage and saying "Wow, I mean, look at that. Right?", and I'm then perplexed but not surprised when a few folks' reaction might actually be "What? Seems totally normal to me!"

It's like the people who think Foskett jumping from Brian's to Mike's band in 2014 was nothing more than a job change.
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2020, 02:38:51 PM »

I'll say this much - while I'm not fully defending the dysfunctional behavior that got caught on film, I believe that there must have been some DEEP, DEEP reasons why Dennis had so much profound spite and issues with Mike.

Meaning, in my estimation, Mike must have done some bad, hurtful stuff on a profoundly personal, cutting level to Dennis, in order for Dennis to be so vengeful as to want to embarrass Mike like that (this also goes back to Dennis knocking off Mike's hat onstage, etc). Obviously, their lifestyles and "clean living" vs. substance issues were a part of the differences that grew between those guys, but that is absolutely not the only thing that happened between them.

I think the resentment that Dennis must have had toward Mike had a big part to do with the band's artistic atrophy that Dennis probably viewed Mike as being chiefly responsible for, or at least for Mike being the cheerleader of that more than anyone else. I have heard insiders blame Mike for the loss of Brother Studio, and even if it was much more complicated that *just* Mike, I have to think that Dennis had those resentments too. Dennis' behavior didn't just come from nowhere, after all.

Al was Mr. Clean Living too, but we never saw Dennis go after Al repeatedly like that.

Am I saying Mike brought all this on himself? Not quite sure how to feel about that. Maybe. But honestly I am certainly curious why Dennis had THAT much of a problem with Mike, to that massive a level. Maybe one day we'll know. So very sad, but I think everyone wants to better understand how/why these relationships devolved the way they did, because it's part of the story, like it or not.

But the bottom line is, as much as the dysfunction is messed up and not right, I feel like Dennis had some absolutely legit bones to pick with Mike that are so often overlooked and dismissed because it's easy to just focus on the clean living vs. self medicating lifestyle stuff and chalk it all up to that.

Look at it this way; Dennis and Mike had MANY, MANY issues *before* Dennis married and had a child with Mike's alleged daughter. Knowing that and then watching this video and just shrugging one's shoulders, as if Dennis was just a proud father and Mike was looking on joyously during that interview, and/or that Mike was only concerned about some sort of injury liability issues vis-a-vis Dennis (which, if true, would mean they would have never brought Dennis back into the touring band) is inexplicable in my opinion.

I'm not even getting into how to judge these guys. I'm just really pointing out at that footage and saying "Wow, I mean, look at that. Right?", and I'm then perplexed but not surprised when a few folks' reaction might actually be "What? Seems totally normal to me!"

It's like the people who think Foskett jumping from Brian's to Mike's band in 2014 was nothing more than a job change.

Totally. It's ridiculous to ignore the video's subtext.

I think this video just proves that Dennis had simply completely had it with what Dennis probably viewed as Mike getting away with bad behavior, and Dennis at least was standing up to someone I imagine he viewed as a dick. I truly believe that so many of Mike's antics post 12/28/83 would not have happened if Dennis had been around, because despite Dennis' tragic issues, Dennis (despite his manner being questionable) at least deserves credit for having the balls to put Mike in his place, which is something that was sorely lacking within the band structure after his passing. The more checks and balances that slowly started withering away for all of these years eventually led us to Mike's unquestioned power, and his 2020 antics with the brand.

I am a big fan of Mike being called out on his bullshit by his own bandmates, and I'd hope that most fans would be too (again, not saying this was a healthy manner of doing that).

It is a very sad episode indeed. This all really makes you wonder what other footage was long ago captured on tape and sitting on a VHS tape in someone's closet for decades that might make for history-changing moments for this band.

What's crazy is that this almost feels like a scripted episode of Dallas, where there's questioned paternity, backstabbing, and that show was the number one series on TV at the time in '82. The band must have felt like a real life soap opera at this time, and Mike with his RadioShack hat would be like the commercial break in the soap opera, where you get up from the BarcaLounger for a piss break.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 02:47:42 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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