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666033 Posts in 26711 Topics by 3826 Members - Latest Member: echomatic January 28, 2021, 12:25:17 AM
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Author Topic: SMiLE opinions that are hard to shake  (Read 2844 times)
Very Extremely Dan
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2020, 07:55:13 AM »

Do people here believe that SMiLE actually had a theme/concept that ran throughout the record?  Or a sequence that is easy to understand/enjoy for a new listener not steeped in the lore?   I love BWPS for many reasons but I've always found the "3 acts" approach somewhat unsatisfying.  I agree that American History/The Cycle of Life/The Elements are very much central themes but the way they've been presented as such distinct/discreet movements makes it appear that there's no overlap.....that Vege-Tables and Cabinessence for example have nothing to do with each other....though looking at the BWPS sequence again maybe I haven't been open to it/discovered it....that viewed/listened as a whole over the course of the album it does "start" at Plymouth Rock and "end" in Hawaii.....I guess I'm asking two questions: 

1.  Do folks here have a "guiding principle" for their SMiLE sequence?

2.  Do you hear BWPS as a three act record or as a unified whole?
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2020, 10:31:13 AM »

Not really, themes and recurring ideas grew organically out of what they wrote but it's not as if Brian and Van Dyke ever sat down discussed some kind of overarching concept for the album (beyond Brian's original "humour -> spiritual enlightenment" MO), or a cohesive narrative. It's a song cycle that reflects two guys' thoughts and feelings at a particular point in time, and some of the things they're exploring overlap across a number of songs. I think what Van Dyke said about belief is the most apt way to draw a connection between the material.

BWPS grouped suites together for aesthetic purposes in a concert performance - two that naturally organised themselves and a third for everything else. A vague elemental notion guided some of the sequencing but I wouldn't read too much into the intention. The 'bicycle rider from Plymouth Rock to Hawaii' logline is... a description of one song. Do You Like Worms, that's all. And a misinterpretation of the lyric at that. Making the last new song about Hawaii seems more informed by fan legend and Brian liking vacations than anything else.

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For a long time, VDP wasn't credited on Wonderful and Wind Chimes.  The former was almost certainly his work, but what about the latter?  Nothing about Wind Chimes particularly screams VDP to me.  If someone told me that WC was indeed 100% the work of BW, I wouldn't necessarily consider that unbelievable.  Conversely, I don't think VDP has ever been credited on You're Welcome, but the alliterative, wordplay "Well, come," "Welcome to come" stuff seems like his handiwork.

The first line of Wind Chimes at least was Brian's, most or all of the rest was probably Van Dyke. He's been pretty firm about having written it and there are a couple of Vosse Posse descriptions that allude to it as a collaboration. It sounds Van Dyke-ish to me too, in a less overt way like Vega-Tables. "Hung up on wind chimes" and "the little bells tinkle like wind chimes"? That's so him. (note that Brian changed the line to a literal "the little bells, tinkling wind chimes" later)

I don't think he had anything to do with You're Welcome, but could be worth asking. He told me that he did actually write the Mama Says couplet despite Mike's credit on Wild Honey.


Quote
On the subject of "lost Smile lyrics," it's almost certain that there were some.  If the Great Shape lyrics didn't exist on the Humble Harv demo, would we even know about them?  I can't remember if there's any other evidence of their existence. I don't think so.  Jules Siegel transcribed some of Barnyard, but I think the Humble Harv thing is it in terms of Great Shape lyrical evidence.  And, of course, certain Worms and Cabin lyrics were preserved by Frank Holmes and we'd likely have zero knowledge of them if Frank hadn't retained them.

Oh, sure. In the Barnyard performance Brian starts scatting when he runs out of lyrics and says "haven't finished this". It's all they had to go on in 2004.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 10:47:52 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
Very Extremely Dan
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2020, 01:18:45 PM »

Not really, themes and recurring ideas grew organically out of what they wrote but it's not as if Brian and Van Dyke ever sat down discussed some kind of overarching concept for the album (beyond Brian's original "humour -> spiritual enlightenment" MO), or a cohesive narrative. It's a song cycle that reflects two guys' thoughts and feelings at a particular point in time, and some of the things they're exploring overlap across a number of songs. I think what Van Dyke said about belief is the most apt way to draw a connection between the material.

BWPS grouped suites together for aesthetic purposes in a concert performance - two that naturally organised themselves and a third for everything else. A vague elemental notion guided some of the sequencing but I wouldn't read too much into the intention. The 'bicycle rider from Plymouth Rock to Hawaii' logline is... a description of one song. Do You Like Worms, that's all. And a misinterpretation of the lyric at that. Making the last new song about Hawaii seems more informed by fan legend and Brian liking vacations than anything else.

Quote
For a long time, VDP wasn't credited on Wonderful and Wind Chimes.  The former was almost certainly his work, but what about the latter?  Nothing about Wind Chimes particularly screams VDP to me.  If someone told me that WC was indeed 100% the work of BW, I wouldn't necessarily consider that unbelievable.  Conversely, I don't think VDP has ever been credited on You're Welcome, but the alliterative, wordplay "Well, come," "Welcome to come" stuff seems like his handiwork.


Thanks for the reply!  What do you make of Brian's "Smog" PSA then?   He states explicitly that he was making SMiLE to present the facts about air pollution and trying to set up a goal for the listener to help get rid of it.  That's an overarching concept right?  The first time I heard it I thought it was a silly joke but looking at the lyrics there are explicit Air references in so many of the songs (GV, IIGS, Cabinessence, Wind Chimes, She's Goin' Bald) and subtle (Wonderful, H&V, DYLW, Surf's Up)  I started to think this might have been the BIG ONE for an organizing principle.   But I also think it's kind of ridiculous and perhaps some revisionist history on Brian's part....but of course the first song he cut for SMiLE after GV was Wind Chimes.....I guess I always wonder why "teenage symphony to God" or "music to pray too" to cite two examples get so much attention and the Smog recording is rarely quoted......

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Very Extremely Dan
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2020, 01:23:26 PM »

(I obviously don't know how to use message boards so I'm going to skip another failed attempt at quoting you and just re-post my reply.  Sorry y'all!   Please forgive an old man.)


Thanks for the reply!  What do you make of Brian's "Smog" PSA then?   He states explicitly that he was making SMiLE to present the facts about air pollution and trying to set up a goal for the listener to help get rid of it.  That's an overarching concept right?  The first time I heard it I thought it was a silly joke but looking at the lyrics there are explicit Air references in so many of the songs (GV, IIGS, Cabinessence, Wind Chimes, She's Goin' Bald) and subtle (Wonderful, H&V, DYLW, Surf's Up)  that I started to think this might have been the BIG ONE for an organizing principle.   But I also think it comes off as another of Brian's less than hilarious jokes of the time and perhaps some revisionist history on Brian's part....but of course the first song he cut for SMiLE after GV was Wind Chimes so........I guess I always wonder why "teenage symphony to God" or "music to pray too" to cite two examples get so much attention and the Smog recording is rarely quoted......
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krabklaw
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2020, 01:54:37 PM »

Do people here believe that SMiLE actually had a theme/concept that ran throughout the record?  Or a sequence that is easy to understand/enjoy for a new listener not steeped in the lore?   I love BWPS for many reasons but I've always found the "3 acts" approach somewhat unsatisfying.  I agree that American History/The Cycle of Life/The Elements are very much central themes but the way they've been presented as such distinct/discreet movements makes it appear that there's no overlap.....that Vege-Tables and Cabinessence for example have nothing to do with each other....though looking at the BWPS sequence again maybe I haven't been open to it/discovered it....that viewed/listened as a whole over the course of the album it does "start" at Plymouth Rock and "end" in Hawaii.....I guess I'm asking two questions: 

1.  Do folks here have a "guiding principle" for their SMiLE sequence?

2.  Do you hear BWPS as a three act record or as a unified whole?

The reason it all fell apart, I think, was the lack of a cohesive concept that would tie all the disparate pieces together. A lack of focus. The best way I think of it is a trip through the past that could help inform the present and present a better way forward for the future. With humor.
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The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2020, 04:25:52 AM »

Been away from the boards for a coupla days so have a lot to catch up on, it seems! A few stray observations - apologies if anyone/anything gets missed.

1. CFOTM lyrics.

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'I got a sneak preview of one of the tracks the previous night when Dennis played me a piano version of one track, Child is Father of the Man, a cowboy song, and then gave me the throwaway line of the year – "And this is a prayer I'm working on for it!"'

Why does the author say "Child is Father of the Man, a cowboy song"?   If Denny was just banging out the titular chorus, no one could possibly interpret that as having anything to do with cowboys.  Now, I've seen it hypothesized that the "cowboy song" was one of the other Smile songs (perhaps H&V, Cabin, Sunshine etc.) and maybe Denny segued into that other song and the author was none the wiser.  And that hypothesis is certainly plausible, but is it certainty?

Definitely not a certainty, but consider Vosse's comments about Cabin Essence in Fusion:

'"Cabinessence," for example, started out as a wholly different trip - Dennis was going to sing it by himself and sound like a funky cat up in the mountains somewhere singing to a chick by a fireplace: very simple - and that's all there was to it.'

The hook of the CE verses being "Home on the range/Home on the grange" - which sounds pretty "Cowboy song" to me - and knowing that at one point Dennis was slated to sing it solo, this seems a possible contender for what Dennis actually played to the reporter. Now, if he'd pounded out the chorus to "Child" just before or after that rendition, it's easy to see how these sections could have been confused.

Interestingly, also, in the transcription of the full Oppenheimer/Inside Pop tape reels which were posted on this Board back in the day, a (probably partial) solo performance of "Child" by Brian is described. No mention is given of any lyrics apart from the "Child - Child" chorus we know and love, while other songs - "I'm in Great Shape" springs to mind - have verse lyrics included. The transcription also includes descriptions of specific backing vocals for "Wonderful" and "Surf's Up" (the "session which went very badly," according to Siegel, just prior to the solo "Surf's Up" recordings).

No definite conclusions can be drawn, of course, but I'd say by inference this tends to support Van Dyke's comments about not writing CFOTM lyrics in '66.

On the other hand, just to hedge my bets, Salty makes an extremely good point in saying:

Quote
On the subject of "lost Smile lyrics," it's almost certain that there were some.  If the Great Shape lyrics didn't exist on the Humble Harv demo, would we even know about them?  I can't remember if there's any other evidence of their existence. I don't think so.  Jules Siegel transcribed some of Barnyard, but I think the Humble Harv thing is it in terms of Great Shape lyrical evidence.  And, of course, certain Worms and Cabin lyrics were preserved by Frank Holmes and we'd likely have zero knowledge of them if Frank hadn't retained them.  

Although the "Open country" lyrics at least from IIGS are mentioned in the Inside Pop logs, it's certainly true that most of what we do have from Barnyard and IIGS are from "Humble Harv" - plus the extra sections from CE and Worms Salty refers to above provided by Holmes.

On a related note, in the Beautiful Dreamer doc Brian and Darian S speak about calling VDP to decipher a couple of lines from Worms. This call is, according to all three players in the documentary, what got him back involved with the project. Old-timers might be able to remind me, but did we have the Worms verse lyrics before SMiLE '04? I'm pretty sure the missing/deleted "east or west Indies" passage was already circulating in the Priore days, but if so then presumably the rest of the words were as well?

In which case, why did Brian need to call Van to double check an "indecipherable" lyric? We know Darian was a fairly well-versed (pun intended) SMiLE scholar prior to beginning the 2004 restoration. Was he not aware of the typed-out lyrics available online, if indeed they were?

Either way, the wording in Beautiful Dreamer suggests that either Brian and Darian were working from a handwritten lyric sheet provided by someone like Frank Holmes, or that Brian had some sort of archive of his own. None of which is directly related to CFOTM, of course, but now I've thought of all this it bugs me we can't easily straighten this particular matter out!

TO BE CONTINUED, I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 04:42:15 AM by The_Holy_Bee » Logged
SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2020, 04:59:02 AM »


On the other hand, just to hedge my bets, Salty makes an extremely good point in saying:


It wasn't me who said that LOL

Reporter confusing Cabin Essence for Child if Dennis played or mentioned both sounds plausible to me, that's the way I've always read it. Of course the "this is the prayer I'm working on for it" comment is just bizarre without context in either scenario.

I believe those Worms lyrics were known about in some capacity from a 1997 issue of ESQ, if not even earlier. I don't think they were fully transcribed. As far as I know they had access to Frank's original lyric sheets, handwritten by himself and Van, which only included the songs he did illustrations for - Heroes and Villains, Surf's Up, Do You Like Worms, Cabin Essence. "My vega-tables" - The Elements came from a conversation with Van Dyke about the concept rather than anything written down.

There ain't much in the Inside Pop reel notes to support anything about Child lyrics, it just says:

Quote
1. hands to face     CR  angle
     can't see hands  pan to hands in dark
   child Is the Father of man  

2.  Heroes & Villains plays
        Vandyke Parks has been working on lyrics
        sings open country song

Not that it matters, but the group vocals it describes them working on appear to be the Wonderful yodelling, the Cabin Essence verse doings and re-recording the 'iron horse' chant, no Surf's Up 'til Brian does it alone.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 05:03:09 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2020, 05:31:15 AM »

Hey Salty - thanks for the clarification on a bunch of points, and apologies for misattributing a quote to you!

Re: the Worms lyrics. I first got into SMiLE around '97, so that'd be the time period I'm remembering. I've just been futilely attempting to use Waybackmachine to find a site from pre-2004 which might clarify what Worms words we had access to back then.

Re: CFOTM, glad you had those transcripts to hand and apologies for not getting things right. I used to rail about slack scholarship on this site and here I am perpetrating similar errors! Glad I did at least recall the basics fairly correctly: a "child Is the Father of man" chorus being the only lyrics quoted for that tune, the words "Open Country (song)" for IIGS, and the Wonderful backing vox. Just found my notes, and of course you're absolutely right it was CE, not Surf's Up, for which the other backing vocals were noted.

Much appreciated!
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The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2020, 05:34:32 AM »

Also: "My vega-tables" - The Elements came from a conversation with Van Dyke about the concept rather than anything written down" is fascinating. Is this from a convo you had with the man himself, or from the original ESQ article? If that's okay to ask Smiley
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 05:40:34 AM by The_Holy_Bee » Logged
SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2020, 05:42:22 AM »

apologies for not getting things right.

Don't worry! We're not all suffering from terminal Smile Brain!

Also: "My vega-tables" - The Elements came from a conversation with Van Dyke about the concept rather than anything written down" is fascinating. Is this from a convo you had with the man himself, or another text? If that's okay to ask Smiley

That's from Cam Mott talking to the Frank over the phone years ago, hope he won't mind me sharing what he wrote down:

Quote
Frank was supplied with lyrics of the songs-in-progress one at a time. Sometimes Van Dyke gave him the lyrics over the phone and sometimes they were handwritten, once on the back of sheet music for one Van’s brother Carson’s song ("Cab Driver"? He didn't say or I didn't note it.) In the case of “ ‘My Vega-tables’ the Elements”, Frank was not really given lyrics but Van Dyke discussed what they were trying to achieve conceptually with an emphasis on natural and healthy food, the “snapshot” is of a body of water.
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The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2020, 05:51:27 AM »

My dear Salty, us long term Terminal Smile Brain sufferers prefer the acronym "TSB." Grin As it happens, I consider myself in a current - if possibly temporary - state of relapse.

Huge thanks for the Cam quote. VDP refers to "Vega-Tables" as the only part of "The Elements" he worked on in the SMiLE '04 tour booklet, and I had a few regrettable exchanges with other posters about whether that was true a few years back. Nice to have some supporting evidence, however belated.

Incidentally, I hope Cam is still around these parts, though it seems not. As a 16 year old when I first started posting on the Smile Shop, and later, he was always very responsive to my posts and full of interesting info.

 
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« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2020, 06:33:27 AM »


Incidentally, I hope Cam is still around these parts, though it seems not. As a 16 year old when I first started posting on the Smile Shop, and later, he was always very responsive to my posts and full of interesting info.

 

Cam's still around, though not necessarily "these" parts...if you catch my drift...
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The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2020, 07:42:19 AM »

Double post somehow.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 07:54:49 AM by The_Holy_Bee » Logged
The_Holy_Bee
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« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2020, 07:49:34 AM »

Thanks c-man!

On a more esoteric note, in reply to Very Extremely Dan:

Quote
1.  Do folks here have a "guiding principle" for their SMiLE sequence?

2.  Do you hear BWPS as a three act record or as a unified whole?

1. Yeah, but it's pretty subjective and I can't really justify it historically. My original intent, back in the early 2010's, was to create a version of SMiLE which included a) only '66 musical sections which Brian used in rough assemblies/dubbed cuts and b) nothing which was recorded during the less album-orientated "hit single" rush of Jan-April 1967. So what I came around to was fairly organic, and the thematic connections were more musical than lyrical or conceptual.

I'll give you an example: BWPS made a connection between "Child", "Look" and "Surf's Up," forming the "second suite." In terms of key signatures, the connection is absolutely valid and made for a fantastic medley in performance and on record. But it's hard to see how these three pieces - as recorded in 1966 - were ever meant to join up in such a way. They're all distinct recordings with clear endings. New VDP lyrics for "Child" and the use of its chorus on "Look (or, Song for Children)" covered the join a bit, but nothing from '66 infers any such sequencing.

And yet, we have vintage edits and boots of "Wonderful" and "Child" - both songs with vintage vocals about having children/being a child/child being father to the man - which end with the same three note bass riff. Sure enough, run the first into the second and you have two discrete songs with a very satisfying musical connection. Use a SMiLE-era hard edit from that riff at the end of "Child" into "The Old Master Painter" - which Brian referred to as "[the] grand finale" - and which, with its past tense lyrics, speaks of the loss of a partner and implies an ending, you suddenly have a fairly convincing "grand finale" indeed. (In my mix, at the end of a 17 minute "side one." Side two's about fifteen mins long.)

Now, I grant you this is complete conjecture on my part as a fan-mixer. But I have always believed the driving force behind the album, as with GV, was musical - perhaps ideological also - rather than strictly lyrical. If I recall correctly, David Anderle makes the observation in his multi-part Crawdaddy! interview with Paul Williams that the big factors in SMiLE's collapse were both Brian's conflict with the rest of the Boys and also a deep difficulty over Van's lyrics/some kind of power struggle over what the project was really about. Ie: that Van's final departure in Jan/Feb '67 really marked the final end of the project as originally conceived. (Actually, this could be Vosse from the Fusion piece - my notes are all over the place.)  "They kind of passed each other" is the quote that resonates.

Anyway, my feeling is, as with Pet Sounds, the songs really stand alone. Articulating their collective power is beyond my ken at least.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 07:53:26 AM by The_Holy_Bee » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2020, 08:32:46 AM »

To Holy Bee:

The key signature aspect of this is one I agree with, and as it lines up with a majority of the songs or even short segments of songs on tape as of May '67, it always seemed valid in terms of sequencing. I wrote a whole long thing about it on the Smile Shop, it had to be 2003 or 04 but before BWPS, and although the BWPS presentation presented it in three parts, the keys of the pieces lined up for at least two sides or "themes", one being Heroes and all that and the other being the Child/Surf's Up themes.

And all of this based on what existed as of '67, nothing new, no connecting fragments from '04, etc. It seemed valid then and as you discuss it here in late 2020 it still seems valid. If I find that old piece I wrote I can laugh at my former ramblings  Grin

But bottom line, when so many of the Smile "themes" surround a certain key or related keys and others are in different related keys, it hardly seems accidental by design.
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« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2020, 09:32:38 AM »

Agree with Holy Bee that the "cowboy song" Dennis sang was most likely Home on the Range, which was originally intended for Dennis to sing, and either Dennis or the writer got the name wrong.  And the "prayer" he was working on for it - Truck Driving Man?

As for the chants, Brian was obsessed with chants during the Smile and post Smile period - there's the dinner chant he made everyone participate in with cutlery percussion, there's the elements chants in Psycodelic sounds, there's You're Welcome, there's "On and on she goes dum de doo dah" there's Mama Says, there's Water Water Water wada.  So not surprising he went back to a water chant idea for Wild Honey.

As for Dada being Water, the Preiss book from 1979 states that (although the piece described is actually the water chant) and in 72 when Carl talked about finishing and releasing Smile, on of the tracks he mentioned was Love to Say Dada (incorporating Cool Cool Water).  So you can see how the two have somehow been considered linked ever since, despite the fact I think Dada has nothing to do with water (or air for that matter).
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« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2020, 11:05:50 AM »

To Carl and anyone other than Brian reviewing the Dada tapes in the 70s, that's just Cool Cool Water with 'Love to Say Dada' written on the box. Only three weeks later when the group were introduced to it it'd actually already turned into Cool Cool Water. That's probably why that myth started.

The "truck driving man" lyrics are definitely Van Dyke Parks - whatever the prayer comment's all about, it's not Dennis writing something for Cabin Essence.

I think there are some really interesting implications in the April '67 Wonderful. The signs all point to that reworked Child section being briefly intended as its bridge, which would mean at different times Brian thought to recycle material from Child into both Wonderful and Surf's Up, and in some way made a connection between those things in his head all the way back then (even if suites with transitions was far off in the future).

BWPS didn't exactly find natural key links though, it had to add modulations or invent new material to make those songs segue together. Wonderful into Look is the exception, and that's only if you're playing it through in an altered way, not trying to do something with the original recordings.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 11:25:08 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2020, 01:10:16 PM »

Thesis: If the complete Inside Pop audio reels and raw footage were to ever surface, some bits of "Smile conventional wisdom" would have to be re-considered... and our minds would probably be blown.
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2020, 01:40:39 PM »

Well Dennis says he's working on a prayer, not writing the prayer.  But yeah, it's a stretch to conclude that was Truck Drivin' Man - just a thought that popped into my head.
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2020, 07:47:50 PM »

2.   Are there vintage lyrics for Child?  I've always assumed that all vintage lyrics got used....


As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this.  On the one hand by the time BWPS rolled around, the vintage lyrics, if they ever existed, had been lost.   And, of course, they have yet to turn up on any extant tape or acetate.  For some, that's enough to say they never existed.... end of story... move on.

.... And yet it's not necessarily as simple as that.  Dial back to the 1966 NME piece in which the author states:

'I got a sneak preview of one of the tracks the previous night when Dennis played me a piano version of one track, Child is Father of the Man, a cowboy song, and then gave me the throwaway line of the year – "And this is a prayer I'm working on for it!"'

Why does the author say "Child is Father of the Man, a cowboy song"?   If Denny was just banging out the titular chorus, no one could possibly interpret that as having anything to do with cowboys.  Now, I've seen it hypothesized that the "cowboy song" was one of the other Smile songs (perhaps H&V, Cabin, Sunshine etc.) and maybe Denny segued into that other song and the author was none the wiser.  And that hypothesis is certainly plausible, but is it certainty?  Would you bet your life savings on that?   Is it significantly more likely than the other possibility that the report was more or less accurate?   The author certainly thought he was hearing a rendition of just one song, not two, as he even says that twice in the same sentence! ("one of the tracks" and "one track"), but sure it's possible that Denny's segue was so seamless that the author didn't know the difference.  But, hold on... why is Denny demo-ing CIFOTM at all?  Out of all the possible Smile songs to be offering a reporter a piano-rendition sneak preview of, he picks fragmentary, incomplete, chorus-only CIFOTM?  Does that seem likely?    What if... at that point there was verse melody... and some other verse lyrics that Denny knew which perhaps had never been recorded?  And said verse melody and lyrics were later discarded and/or lost and/or forgotten?

The other thing, and I don't have it in front of me, so this isn't an exact quote, is in the Anderle/Williams interview from '68.  Anderle says something along the lines that he's heard that CIFOTM is coming out on their next album.  And, of course, a snippet of it DID come out on Friends in the form of Little Bird.  But isn't the fact that Anderle mentions it all somewhat interesting?  Sure, it's a nice instrumental track and with a memorable chorus, but why was Denny showcasing it in late '66 and Anderle still talking about a year and a half later if what we have now is all there ever was to it?  My gut feeling is that CIFOTM was once something more than what survived to the present day.


The "cowboy song" quote is very interesting, but maybe just off-the-cuff humor, since it doesn't remotely resemble that remark. What I'm curious about are the lyrics added to Look and CIFOTM on BWPS. They sound vintage to my ears, and if not, they are a really inspired effort by Van Dyke to re-create the original vibe. The added lyrics on DYLW are definitely original as we all know, and those for Holidays and Da Da on BWPS are not. I once encountered Van Dyke alone at the bar at a reception for Frank Holmes newly unearthed Smile booklet art in S.F., but didn't get to ask him about it because he left soon thereafter and joined some others.
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« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2020, 01:52:02 AM »

Was that the event at Enrico's in 2005?   Really wanted to attend that but wasn't able to make it.
Personally, I'm a bit underwhelmed by the CIFOTM verse lyrics on BWPS.  For me the "cowboy song, what if" really is a Smile opinion I just can't (don't want to) shake.  I mean, I get that the chorus is Wordsworth, not Zane Grey.  But I guess in the Smile album of my imagination there is a cowboy song in which the CIFOTM chorus makes a sort of bizarre sense or perhaps makes a sort of "cannabis sense" (of I which I continue to believe "cabin essence" was a pun on; say it fast).

I know that the BWPS Holidays lyrics aren't vintage, but for me that's one of the few 2004 additions that I can't shake.  I  can no longer hear the '66 track without the "lazy mister moon" lyrics playing in my head.  I know that a few fans complained the "we will party" bit was anachronistic and took them out of the moment as they believed that party wasn't used as a verb in the '60s.  I initially took their word for it, as I wasn't around in the '60s, but then lo' and behold I was watching some or another pre-1967 TV show or movie, I heard a character use party as a verb and I thought, huh, those claims of anachronism were off base.
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