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Author Topic: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys'  (Read 27047 times)
DonnyL
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« Reply #225 on: October 23, 2020, 08:32:58 PM »


But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

I can't wait to hear the whataboutism, and pretzel-twisting responses you're gonna get to those by deranged pro-Trumpers.

Or how about when Trump mocked the disabled reporter? (Oh yeah, that was just Trump accidentally moving his arms in a way that was not intended to be a mockery, right?)

But you know, mocking people with challenges is par for the course with the Trumps and with Mike, those guys have no problem mocking Brian, a guy who continues to suffer from various issues but has bravely overcome *so* much in his life... Mike just last week was talking in an incredibly disrespectful way about Brian, as if Brian's a child, in Mike's recent interview talking about Brian "coming out to play"...  or Trump Jr. bragging with glee about having "successfully triggered" Brian Wilson into being outraged about killing animals for fun.

And Mike simply standing by, like the Proud Boys, with no response to that "trigger" comment whatsoever. Mike has zero tact and zero class, and neither do the Trumps. And that just scratches the surface of how awful the Trumps are, and how gross it is for the BBs brand to be associated.

But yeah, I'm sure these wonderful, ethical pro-Trump BBs fans will excuse all of these things, too.

Trump and Mike deserve each other.  Absolute trash.

Re: the Chinese virus.

- Asian media called it the "Wuhan Virus"... Example here and here.
- New York Times called it the Chinese Coronavirus.
- Washington Post called it the Chinese Coronavirus
- I can list a plethora of more examples of these headlines that dated around January before Trump started calling it the Chinese virus - at which point the media called him racist and then proceeded to not mention "Chinese" in the name subsequently.

My point being that, whether or not it is right or wrong to name a virus (or call a virus) after it's place of origin (such as Zika, Marburg, Lyme, etc), NO ONE on the left is calling the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post racist for mentioning China/Wuhan in their description of the virus. It's these types of double standards that give Trump a bit of leeway with moderate voters. Does Trump keep calling it the Chinese virus because he hates Asians? I doubt it, as 30% of Asian-Americans support him (as of last month) and he needs their votes. It's more likely that since the media called it the "Chinese" virus at the beginning of the pandemic it just further proves a point about double standards whenever someone calls him racist for saying it. Billy Hinsche or Carls's half Asian-American sons may absolutely hate Trump because of his continued mentioning of "Chinese virus", and more power to them if so - however, that 30% of Asian Americans still support the president proves that some Asian-Americans are not offended by Trump naming the country of origin when referring to the virus.

On a side note, he did call it the Kung Flu on one (or more) occasions - I'm not sure how this could be construed, perhaps racist? A really stupid/bad joke? Both?

As for Trump mocking the disabled reporter: this video shows that Trump made the exact same hand/flailing gestures when mocking other people he disagreed with...and the footage is taken from events that took place before the date he supposedly mocked the reporter's disability. If he was mocking the reporter's disability, then absolutely shame on him. But the fact that he made the exact same hand gestures on multiple occasions when referring to people who didn't have that disability makes me question the validity of the claim.

Re: the Proud Boys. Not that you really delved into that subject, but I do want to clear up confusion about that too. As I heard that the Proud Boys were supposedly a white supremacist group (Joe Biden claimed this at the first debate). The Proud Boys leader is a half-Cuban half-black male. The Proud Boys have African American members. That does not at all sound like a white supremacist group to me, or they have an absolutely abysmal screening process. There was actually a Joe Rogan podcast where the founding of the Proud Boys was explained: it was created as a joke to help a jewish intern get laid...again, if they are a white supremacist group they are really doing a poor job. CD, not that you said they were white supremacists, but I have heard this rumor a lot and thought I'd clear it up for anyone who didn't know this.

Is Trump a jackass? Yes! In fact, someone posted a great cited response earlier about all the garbage stuff Trump has done. But I just wanted to throw my two cents in about the above topics.

I’ve got no love for left wing propaganda outlets like The NY Times and WA Post. Yes they paint Trump in a particular way, just as Fox News paints any Democrat however they want for their agenda.

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 08:41:27 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #226 on: October 23, 2020, 08:40:49 PM »


But seriously you think calling coronavirus "the Chinese virus" is okay? You understand people commonly use the term "Chinese" to refer to Asian-Americans, right? So you'd be okay with the President of the US referring to a spreading disease as "the white person virus" if it originated here? Since we're on a Beach Boys forum, how about letting an Asian-American like Billy Hinsche know your thoughts? How might Carls's half Asian-American sons feel about this?

It's hard to have a civil discussion when you guys are either: 1- insensitive, selfish assholes, and/or 2- idiots.

I can't wait to hear the whataboutism, and pretzel-twisting responses you're gonna get to those by deranged pro-Trumpers.

Or how about when Trump mocked the disabled reporter? (Oh yeah, that was just Trump accidentally moving his arms in a way that was not intended to be a mockery, right?)

But you know, mocking people with challenges is par for the course with the Trumps and with Mike, those guys have no problem mocking Brian, a guy who continues to suffer from various issues but has bravely overcome *so* much in his life... Mike just last week was talking in an incredibly disrespectful way about Brian, as if Brian's a child, in Mike's recent interview talking about Brian "coming out to play"...  or Trump Jr. bragging with glee about having "successfully triggered" Brian Wilson into being outraged about killing animals for fun.

And Mike simply standing by, like the Proud Boys, with no response to that "trigger" comment whatsoever. Mike has zero tact and zero class, and neither do the Trumps. And that just scratches the surface of how awful the Trumps are, and how gross it is for the BBs brand to be associated.

But yeah, I'm sure these wonderful, ethical pro-Trump BBs fans will excuse all of these things, too.

Trump and Mike deserve each other.  Absolute trash.

Re: the Chinese virus.

- Asian media called it the "Wuhan Virus"... Example here and here.
- New York Times called it the Chinese Coronavirus.
- Washington Post called it the Chinese Coronavirus
- I can list a plethora of more examples of these headlines that dated around January before Trump started calling it the Chinese virus - at which point the media called him racist and then proceeded to not mention "Chinese" in the name subsequently.

My point being that, whether or not it is right or wrong to name a virus (or call a virus) after it's place of origin (such as Zika, Marburg, Lyme, etc), NO ONE on the left is calling the New York Times, CNN, Washington Post racist for mentioning China/Wuhan in their description of the virus. It's these types of double standards that give Trump a bit of leeway with moderate voters. Does Trump keep calling it the Chinese virus because he hates Asians? I doubt it, as 30% of Asian-Americans support him (as of last month) and he needs their votes. It's more likely that since the media called it the "Chinese" virus at the beginning of the pandemic it just further proves a point about double standards whenever someone calls him racist for saying it. Billy Hinsche or Carls's half Asian-American sons may absolutely hate Trump because of his continued mentioning of "Chinese virus", and more power to them if so - however, that 30% of Asian Americans still support the president proves that some Asian-Americans are not offended by Trump naming the country of origin when referring to the virus.

On a side note, he did call it the Kung Flu on one (or more) occasions - I'm not sure how this could be construed, perhaps racist? A really stupid/bad joke? Both?

As for Trump mocking the disabled reporter: this video shows that Trump made the exact same hand/flailing gestures when mocking other people he disagreed with...and the footage is taken from events that took place before the date he supposedly mocked the reporter's disability. If he was mocking the reporter's disability, then absolutely shame on him. But the fact that he made the exact same hand gestures on multiple occasions when referring to people who didn't have that disability makes me question the validity of the claim.

Re: the Proud Boys. Not that you really delved into that subject, but I do want to clear up confusion about that too. As I heard that the Proud Boys were supposedly a white supremacist group (Joe Biden claimed this at the first debate). The Proud Boys leader is a half-Cuban half-black male. The Proud Boys have African American members. That does not at all sound like a white supremacist group to me, or they have an absolutely abysmal screening process. There was actually a Joe Rogan podcast where the founding of the Proud Boys was explained: it was created as a joke to help a jewish intern get laid...again, if they are a white supremacist group they are really doing a poor job. CD, not that you said they were white supremacists, but I have heard this rumor a lot and thought I'd clear it up for anyone who didn't know this.

Is Trump a jackass? Yes! In fact, someone posted a great cited response earlier about all the garbage stuff Trump has done. But I just wanted to throw my two cents in about the above topics.

Going to have to disagree with you there, rab. You seem like a fine person and I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but Trump is an absolute gutter trash POS. Not just a mere jackass. There's nothing in his narcissistic personality that would tell me it would be out of character for him to mock a disabled person. Nothing whatsoever. I don't think anything is below him. At all.

That said, do I think that sometimes the media spins things a bit far and twists some of the things he did in order to push a narrative? To some degree yes. There are some incidents of things being taken out of context and twisted a bit. But the overwhelming amount of time, it's him acting like an absolute piece of crap without an ounce of tact.

Neither Trump nor Mike Pence could muster even a tiny morsel of empathy or understanding about the idea of racial injustice and systemic racism. They don't necessarily have to agree with every single talking point that the left might say on that, but to 100% literally completely stonewall that, when there is so much evidence to the contrary? And then to have the *unmitigated chutzpah* to compare himself to Abraham Lincoln in terms of being a great president for black citizens?  Well that's literally like Mike Love saying he has 10 times more talent than Brian Wilson. That's the level of ridiculous such a quote is. That's so unbelievably insulting and tactless. It's abhorrent.  Those guys are experts at gaslighting, just like Mike.

Every single day when Trump does something new that is more abhorrent than the next, I have to double check that I'm not reading The Onion.

Again, massive narcissism on a massive scale, gone unchecked. It's so incredibly troubling. You can hear the contempt Trump has in his voice when he annunciates "Chiiiiiiiina virus", it's all about his deflection for trying to distract for his massive shortcomings during Covid. Even if the term was coined and used elsewhere, he still INSISTS on using that term solely for that purpose. To get a bunch of frothing, uneducated MAGA yokels in trailer parks riled up and chanting USA, USA, and getting them embittered at foreign countries. Sounds like a great thing for a US president to be deliberately inciting for the sole reason of pumping up his own ego and to disguise his shortcomings.

And Mike, well not nearly as big of a POS as Trump, is also absolute trash for continually either mocking/belittling Brian or rubbing the "Wilsons did drugs" line endlessly - just look at that lifestyles of the rich and famous clip where he says it, directly followed by talking about how great he is. It's just to puff himself up. It's that same disgusting warped mindset. Both Donald Trump and Mike Love have very sick narcissistic tendencies, and warped senses of right and wrong.
Has systemic racism been accepted as fact? By some I guess.  By others it has been clearly debunked. Please have a look at Adam Carolla's experience with "white privilege".  Mocking a disabled person? It has been fact checked by many that it wasn't the case. Also remember Trump is still considers an anti-semite despite his Jewish family and moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Also blamed for building Obama's cages. Why bother getting the facts out when a narrative can be kept?

“Accepted as fact”? Wtf. Why does it have to be accepted as fact to be part of the cultural fabric of America. There are countless studies and statistics to support it, but why do you need those when you can just look around? Assuming you’ve never been followed around at a convenience store for being black. Assuming you’ve never been been pulled over by a cop for being black. Assuming you’ve never watched both black and white children be presented with a pair of identical dolls - one white, one black - and they continually refer to the black one as the “bad” doll and the “ugly” doll.

Highly recommend picking up any book by James Baldwin or Huey Newton to at least learn about a different perspective in the history of your country. Or just go on YouTube and watch the debate between Baldwin and someone who is probably one of your heroes, conservative star and royal piece of sh*t William Buckley:

https://youtu.be/oFeoS41xe7w
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 08:42:29 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #227 on: October 23, 2020, 08:59:30 PM »

Sort of on topic, and Rab you might like this too. A post by Adam Marsland from a few years back about the state of current discourse. I think I saw it on Facebook though I don’t know how because I’m not a friend of his. Might have been via Probyn Gregory. I still have it on my phone because I found it interesting.

Quote
Who is at fault for our problems? Well depending on one's point of view, it's the media, liberals, conservatives, immigrants, corporations, politicians, the "deep state," wealthy donors (often only on one side and not the other) etc. There are arguments for all these, some more valid than others.
But what's missing from that list? Us.
It's always someone else screwing things up. It's never us. We're the blameless victims. We don't need to change. The other guy does.
Self-reflection, fairness, rationality, knowledge, competence, inspiration, seeing our personal struggles in the context of the bigger picture.
When was the last time you ever heard anyone talk about any of these things?
 When do we say "you know, I see your point…do you see mine? We have to live together. How can we fix this problem? I'll give a little, and you give a little and we can make it work." When do we synthesize and move on to something new? That's not "socialism," people! That's CIVILIZATION.
We just keep digging in, more and more opinionated, less and less informed, with the cliff looming ever closer.
Now I just hear people repeating tired old memes and received wisdom, relentlessly focusing on one sliver of an issue that fits their prejudices and ignoring all other context. Now we've lost the ability to discern good information from bad, opinion from fact, wisdom from snake oil – because we bought into the idea that the world is all about us. So often we just believe what suits us and ignore the rest, plastering a label on someone to shut them out…especially the people that actually know what they're talking about.
It isn't just politics. It goes to all aspects of society – the idea that the individual is king and anything collective is secondary or even bad. Strong belief is the equal to knowledge. Everybody's a star, regardless of actual achievement or merit. Ignorance is admirable. Competence and ability and discernment are "elitist". That's where our culture is at now.
That kind of thinking rots the soul and stunts growth.
Are there larger forces driving us to this? Of course! Nearly all of our domestic media – irrespective of "bias" – continually focuses us on what drives our fears, makes us angry, sells ads, flatters our egos, providing convenient enemies to target, making the trivial things important and the important things trivial, burying context and fuller understanding.
Politicians, corporations, governments, rich donors, parties, etc. – sure, they all play a large role too. But all these folks saw the big picture that we refused to grapple with and took full advantage. When they deregulated the media, allowed more and more power to concentrate in fewer and fewer hands, dismantled the very regulations and safeguards that had been put in place to protect all of us, to a large degree we said "Sure! Sounds good! Government bad! Free market woo!" We rejected reality and balance and discernment and replaced it with nonsense and dumb slogans. We left the playing field. Of course we're stressed out and tired and overwhelmed -- but every time someone suggested a way out of that, we shut them down. We had the power and resources to solve every problem that faces us but collectively decided we'd rather point fingers at each other, refusing to compromise in any respect – or throw up our hands and not get involved at all. And while we were all busy squabbling, the people pulling the strings ate our lunch, and continue to do so.
That's not only on "them." That's also on US. We bought into the idea that we can have everything our own way, that a functioning society is something we can take from but don't need to contribute to or pay attention to, and that it's always someone else's fault. Those are ideas that are just nuts, ideas we should have started to leave behind when we were about 10. Sure, they were poured down our throats by people who wanted us busy and stressed out and stupid. But we didn't spit them out. We swallowed them. We're supposedly adults. We should have known better.
I've  witnessed kids in Laos and Cambodia and Indonesia fighting for the education and opportunities that we are in the process of squandering.
But until we accept responsibility for our own part of making things work, I do not believe anything is going to change – because even if we elect competent people we'll just keep indiscriminately tearing them down because they can't wave a magic wand and they aren't 100% what we personally want and we won't accept anything else. We'll keep empowering the people that flatter us the most and they'll keep taking us to the cleaners because we believed in the tooth fairy. If we don't get our hands dirty to bite the bullet and assess "the lesser of two evils" and then hold people accountable by the same standard of behavior WHETHER THEY'RE ON OUR TEAM OR NOT – what else would you expect?
But most of all we have to learn again to CUT EACH OTHER SOME SLACK. Whatever your evil villain might be, whether it's the government or bankers or the a-hole down the street, they are all people trying to get by in the world just like you are. Yeah, a lot of folks need a good slap upside the head - but refusing to acknowledge their own struggles and needs, while demanding they hear yours - just further feeds the sense of victimization and entitlement.

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« Reply #228 on: October 24, 2020, 06:03:44 AM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 06:06:10 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #229 on: October 24, 2020, 09:47:14 AM »

Has systemic racism been accepted as fact? By some I guess.  By others it has been clearly debunked. Please have a look at Adam Carolla's experience with "white privilege".  Mocking a disabled person? It has been fact checked by many that it wasn't the case. Also remember Trump is still considers an anti-semite despite his Jewish family and moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Also blamed for building Obama's cages. Why bother getting the facts out when a narrative can be kept?

Adam Carolla is a has-been white comedian, he is not an authority on race in America. Speaking as a Jewish person who knows many other Jewish people, nobody I know gives a sh*t about the embassy in Jerusalem. In fact conflating American Jews with Israel is pretty anti-semitic to begin with. Plus, Trump has endorsed the Qanon conspiracy group multiple times recently and they are vile anti-semites. Being related to Jared Kushner doesn't automatically make Trump best friend to the Jews and didn't stop him from complaining that "they're only in it for themselves."
Anybody involved with the immigration cages deserves to be called out on it but most of the blame goes to ICE, a violent government organization who have been sexually assaulting their detainees and Trump has given them nothing but praise.
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« Reply #230 on: October 24, 2020, 09:53:58 AM »

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?
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« Reply #231 on: October 24, 2020, 09:56:30 AM »

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?

The headline states "Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S."
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« Reply #232 on: October 24, 2020, 10:08:47 AM »

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?

The headline states "Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S."

Dude, your reading skills are way off then, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.  It is not "Chinese Coronavirus" as a proper noun.  It refers to infections and death toll from coronavirus in China, and the first sentence of the article reinforces that. 
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« Reply #233 on: October 24, 2020, 10:17:59 AM »

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?

The headline states "Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S."

Dude, your reading skills are way off then, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.  It is not "Chinese Coronavirus" as a proper noun.  It refers to infections and death toll from coronavirus in China, and the first sentence of the article reinforces that.  

Thanks for the correction! There are plenty of other examples of the media using it as a proper noun though (which is probably why you didn't choose any of my other examples) but kudos to the Washington Post.
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« Reply #234 on: October 24, 2020, 10:58:46 AM »

Discussion has devolved into no longer even MENTIONING Mike’s connection to this thread. Completely political...
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« Reply #235 on: October 24, 2020, 11:02:53 AM »

Rab, where in that Washington Post linked article does it say what you are claiming?

The headline states "Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S."

Dude, your reading skills are way off then, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.  It is not "Chinese Coronavirus" as a proper noun.  It refers to infections and death toll from coronavirus in China, and the first sentence of the article reinforces that.  

Thanks for the correction! There are plenty of other examples of the media using it as a proper noun though (which is probably why you didn't choose any of my other examples) but kudos to the Washington Post.

I chose not to engage you on this, respectfully, because the argument isn't good and totally based in confirmation bias.  
I am making an assumption that you are perhaps British, and then you maybe don't see the daily goings on of Trump from January 2020 until now.  You cannot make some kind of "bUt WhAt AbOuT tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa" statement, based on a few early news clippings or whatnot - that since winter 2020 have totally not been the accepted journalistic norm in how to describe and report on our current covid outbreak.  What is seen by observers in America is that he has chosen to use the term "China Virus" in special circumstances, all throughout spring and summer, specifically when he is mass communicating in some sort of arena of his followers, to rile them up and reinforce their chosen values - which here involves making a boogeyman/scapegoat/fall guy out of a vaguely articulated concept of "China".  This isn't a case of fuzzy terminology or unfair slant from "liberal media".  It is obvious dog whistling, which is nothing like your couple early examples of fleshing out terminology.  
Which gets me on a side point-  Trump actually isn't a racist.  He doesn't really care what your race is.  However he is (first) - a classist.  He enjoys 1%ers of all races and backgrounds and wants nothing to do with the other 99%.  He is also a race-baiter - he uses racism as a tool.  This is far worse than being a racist, and there needs to be bigger consequences to this.
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« Reply #236 on: October 24, 2020, 11:05:22 AM »

Discussion has devolved into no longer even MENTIONING Mike’s connection to this thread. Completely political...

Yeah I have to agree with this, and definitely apologies for contributing to how off-topic this got (though the reading comprehension lesson from the kid was actually useful for me). If anyone wants to PM me about anything, please feel free.
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« Reply #237 on: October 24, 2020, 11:05:33 AM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term. Asian-Americans are a diverse group. Of course there are some who might support Trump and might not find it offensive. I'm not talking about stigmatizing the people of the country of China. That's a reasonable topic, but not anything I'm commenting on. I'm talking about use of the term "Chinese virus" by the President (and others) is racially insensitive to Asian-Americans. I can't believe I'm having to explain this, but terms like "Chinese" and "Mexican" are commonly used in America to described large, diverse groups of Americans. And Trump uses these terms to stigmatize these groups and provoke members of his base who are receptive to racism and xenophobia. This is part of why he is so dangerous. And I would argue while the problems that have lead to the recent protests against inequality have always existed, Trump and Trumpism are quite likely some of the primary reasons why we are seeing this at this moment in history.

2- You said "The Proud Boys have African American members". I said just because an organization "has an African American member" does not mean they are not a racist group. I am struggling to understand what is controversial, misquoted, or misrepresented there. Here are some quotes from Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys founder (a white man): "I love being white, and I think it's something to be very proud of. I don't want our culture diluted. We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life." "I want violence. I want punching in the face. I'm disappointed in Trump supporters for not punching enough."

I don't understand what your intention is here.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 11:14:20 AM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #238 on: October 24, 2020, 11:42:59 AM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling. 
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« Reply #239 on: October 24, 2020, 11:56:16 AM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Have folks from Finland traditionally experienced a good deal of racism in the US? Are there ethnic racist nicknames for Finnish folks that are commonly known by Americans?

No. Because Finnish folks are generally white passing, and would not even stand out from traditional Caucasian white US folks. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have certainly experienced quite a bit of prejudice over the years, such as internment camps, and any other kinds of racial indignities like yellowface in movies, you name it. Racist people don't necessarily even understand the distinction between Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans.

That's just one reason why it's particularly harmful to repeatedly refer to the disease in that manner.

I personally have Asian American friends who have experienced racist garbage hurled at them since the coronavirus started, and if you think that they are out of line by being furious that Trump has thrown gasoline on the fire, then you are burying your head in the sand.

So it's an apples and oranges comparison. If you can't understand that it's not comparable to the hypothetical of the virus having started in Finland, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's an absurd comparison for many reasons.
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« Reply #240 on: October 24, 2020, 12:22:52 PM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Have folks from Finland traditionally experienced a good deal of racism in the US? Are there ethnic racist nicknames for Finnish folks that are commonly known by Americans?

No. Because Finnish folks are generally white passing, and would not even stand out from traditional Caucasian white US folks. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have certainly experienced quite a bit of prejudice over the years, such as internment camps, and any other kinds of racial indignities like yellowface in movies, you name it. Racist people don't necessarily even understand the distinction between Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans.

That's just one reason why it's particularly harmful to repeatedly refer to the disease in that manner.

I personally have Asian American friends who have experienced racist garbage hurled at them since the coronavirus started, and if you think that they are out of line by being furious that Trump has thrown gasoline on the fire, then you are burying your head in the sand.

So it's an apples and oranges comparison. If you can't understand that it's not comparable to the hypothetical of the virus having started in Finland, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's an absurd comparison for many reasons.

So is immediately assuming that folks pointing to China for the outbreak is solely based on racism.  No one is disputing that the Chinese have experienced racism before (just as every single other ethnic group has been the target of it before, including white people - ever heard the term "gweilo" before?), but you have yet to point to any specific evidence that there has been deliberate racist intent in labeling Covid as the Chinese virus.  People keep throwing the term "racism" around as if it were subjective.  It isn't.  And taking a critical stance against a country of differing cultures and ethnicities who have had a history of shady behavior does not automatically equate to racism. 
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« Reply #241 on: October 24, 2020, 12:33:47 PM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Have folks from Finland traditionally experienced a good deal of racism in the US? Are there ethnic racist nicknames for Finnish folks that are commonly known by Americans?

No. Because Finnish folks are generally white passing, and would not even stand out from traditional Caucasian white US folks. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have certainly experienced quite a bit of prejudice over the years, such as internment camps, and any other kinds of racial indignities like yellowface in movies, you name it. Racist people don't necessarily even understand the distinction between Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans.

That's just one reason why it's particularly harmful to repeatedly refer to the disease in that manner.

I personally have Asian American friends who have experienced racist garbage hurled at them since the coronavirus started, and if you think that they are out of line by being furious that Trump has thrown gasoline on the fire, then you are burying your head in the sand.

So it's an apples and oranges comparison. If you can't understand that it's not comparable to the hypothetical of the virus having started in Finland, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's an absurd comparison for many reasons.

So is immediately assuming that folks pointing to China for the outbreak is solely based on racism.  No one is disputing that the Chinese have experienced racism before (just as every single other ethnic group has been the target of it before, including white people - ever heard the term "gweilo" before?), but you have yet to point to any specific evidence that there has been deliberate racist intent in labeling Covid as the Chinese virus.  People keep throwing the term "racism" around as if it were subjective.  It isn't.  And taking a critical stance against a country of differing cultures and ethnicities who have had a history of shady behavior does not automatically equate to racism.  

Not necessarily everyone who says "Chinese viruls" is by definition doing it out of some racist bent. But the racist bent has been normalized by Trump and his foaming-at-the-mouth extremist supporters. And for people to GO OUT OF THEIR WAY  to intentionally "correct" people who don't say "China Virus", and then excitedly exclaim "CHINA VIRUS!!! CHINA VIRUS!!!"... those folks who find it necessary (like Trump) to rub it in peoples' faces and make sure that the word "China" is ALWAYS said in conjunction with mentioning Covid... those folks are doing it solely based on racism.

And that's due mainly to Trump being a racist sack of crap, and EGGING ON the racist people ON PURPOSE.

And that's why is MORE harmful to Asian Americans in general, as opposed to your hypothetical of Finnish folks, if the disease had come from there and labeled as the Finnish Disease. It would still not be great for Finnish folks, but there's absolutely no comparison. Please tell me you can understand that. Whatever discrimination that you want mention about white folks having experienced discrimination before is truly not comparable to what Asian Americans have experienced, MOST ESPECIALLY within the confines of the USA. Apples and oranges to such a major degree it's a laughable comparison.

The problem that Trumpers have is grasping the concept that not all groups have received the same amount of prejudice hurled at them over the years within this country especially, and Trumpers are just put off by what they perceive as "special treatment" for certain groups. That's very much the "all lives matter" type of mindset where they cannot understand that certain groups sometimes need certain extra considerations, based on many factors.  I believe that the term "white privilege" sometimes gets thrown around excessively, and there are some people who cry wolf, but this is not a cry wolf situation. 

Walk a mile in somebody else's shoes and maybe you'll understand. Can you tell me you can really know what it's like to be a trans woman on a daily basis unless you are a trans woman yourself? You can kinda sort maybe assume what it might be like, but you can't REALLY know the full levels of BS that I'm sure trans folks have to deal with from POS bigots and morons. Same concept here. You cannot know the true, deep down level of what it's like to be an Asian American family who has experienced discrimination, weird looks being hurled at them, you name it, unless you are that ethnicity yourself.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 12:54:28 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #242 on: October 24, 2020, 12:57:14 PM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Have folks from Finland traditionally experienced a good deal of racism in the US? Are there ethnic racist nicknames for Finnish folks that are commonly known by Americans?

No. Because Finnish folks are generally white passing, and would not even stand out from traditional Caucasian white US folks. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have certainly experienced quite a bit of prejudice over the years, such as internment camps, and any other kinds of racial indignities like yellowface in movies, you name it. Racist people don't necessarily even understand the distinction between Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans.

That's just one reason why it's particularly harmful to repeatedly refer to the disease in that manner.

I personally have Asian American friends who have experienced racist garbage hurled at them since the coronavirus started, and if you think that they are out of line by being furious that Trump has thrown gasoline on the fire, then you are burying your head in the sand.

So it's an apples and oranges comparison. If you can't understand that it's not comparable to the hypothetical of the virus having started in Finland, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's an absurd comparison for many reasons.

So is immediately assuming that folks pointing to China for the outbreak is solely based on racism.  No one is disputing that the Chinese have experienced racism before (just as every single other ethnic group has been the target of it before, including white people - ever heard the term "gweilo" before?), but you have yet to point to any specific evidence that there has been deliberate racist intent in labeling Covid as the Chinese virus.  People keep throwing the term "racism" around as if it were subjective.  It isn't.  And taking a critical stance against a country of differing cultures and ethnicities who have had a history of shady behavior does not automatically equate to racism.  

Not necessarily everyone who says "Chinese viruls" is by definition doing it out of some racist bent. But the racist bent has been normalized by Trump and his foaming-at-the-mouth extremist supporters. And for people to GO OUT OF THEIR WAY  to intentionally "correct" people who don't say "China Virus", and then excitedly exclaim "CHINA VIRUS!!! CHINA VIRUS!!!"... those folks who find it necessary (like Trump) to rub it in peoples' faces and make sure that the word "China" is ALWAYS said in conjunction with mentioning Covid... those folks are doing it solely based on racism.

And that's due mainly to Trump being a racist sack of crap, and EGGING ON the racist people ON PURPOSE.

And that's why is MORE harmful to Asian Americans in general, as opposed to your hypothetical of Finnish folks, if the disease had come from there and labeled as the Finnish Disease. It would still not be great for Finnish folks, but there's absolutely no comparison. Please tell me you can understand that. Whatever discrimination that you want to bring up to mention that white folks have experienced discrimination before is not comparable to what Asian Americans have experienced. Apples and oranges to such a major degree it's a laughable comparison.

The problem that Trumpers have is grasping the concept that not all groups have received the same amount of prejudice hurled at them over the years within this country especally, and Trumpers are just put off by what they perceive as "special treatment" for certain groups. That's very much the "all lives matter" type of mindset where they cannot understand that certain groups sometimes need certain extra considerations, based on many factors.

Walk a mile in somebody else's shoes and maybe you'll understand. Can you tell me you can really know what it's like to be a trans woman on a daily basis unless you are a trans woman yourself? You can kinda sort maybe assume what it might be like, but you can't REALLY know the full levels of BS that I'm sure trans folks have to deal with from POS bigots and morons. Same concept here. You cannot know the true, deep down level of what it's like to be an Asian American family who has experienced discrimination, weird looks being hurled at them, you name it, unless you are that ethnicity yourself.


You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:01:01 PM by Awesoman » Logged

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« Reply #243 on: October 24, 2020, 01:16:19 PM »



You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him. Doing things ON PURPOSE, JUST TO BE RACIST is more of a secondary thing that just happens naturally or sometimes inadvertently - but ALWAYS without apology or recognizing it - because he's so clueless as to be a guy to say he's "the least racist person in the room".

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters. All he cares about.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality into Donald, same sickness that Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, Trump will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence, if it benefits himself. By ANY means necessary that he can get away with.  In this manner, I see him sharing Mike's mentality. I think Mike would (and has shown when he kicked out Al in 1998 for example) do absolutely anything he can get away with for purposes of power. Scruples and doing what's right and ethical are not words in Mike's vocabulary, or if they are present, they come a very distant second to all manners concerning ego.

That's just part of his Trump's personality and why he is unfit to be president. Trump's lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but a certain way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:33:27 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #244 on: October 24, 2020, 01:31:28 PM »



You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him.

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality, same as Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, he will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence. That's just part of his sick personality and why he is unfit to be president. His lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but the quickest way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

I'm certainly not disputing Trump's obvious character flaws nor the dysfunction taking place with his family and political cabinet.  And although he's undeniably an egomaniac, there are plenty of (albeit buried) stories of him doing kind things specifically for people.  It is important to note that the contentiousness between China and the U.S. has been going on long before Trump ever took office.  And Trump has had some successes in foreign policy particularly in the Middle Eastern peace deal as well as (at least for now) calming the tensions with North Korea somewhat (although I'm hesitant to call that a complete win yet).  It doesn't really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks of the guy as I'm not particularly fond of him myself, but if we've any interest in upholding an egalitarian society we're going to have to learn how to keep our emotions in check and be a lot more objective about folks with differing views.  Even with a guy like Trump. 
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« Reply #245 on: October 24, 2020, 01:35:21 PM »



You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him.

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality, same as Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, he will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence. That's just part of his sick personality and why he is unfit to be president. His lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but the quickest way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

I'm certainly not disputing Trump's obvious character flaws nor the dysfunction taking place with his family and political cabinet.  And although he's undeniably an egomaniac, there are plenty of (albeit buried) stories of him doing kind things specifically for people.  It is important to note that the contentiousness between China and the U.S. has been going on long before Trump ever took office.  And Trump has had some successes in foreign policy particularly in the Middle Eastern peace deal as well as (at least for now) calming the tensions with North Korea somewhat (although I'm hesitant to call that a complete win yet).  It doesn't really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks of the guy as I'm not particularly fond of him myself, but if we've any interest in upholding an egalitarian society we're going to have to learn how to keep our emotions in check and be a lot more objective about folks with differing views.  Even with a guy like Trump.  

Your previous quote "You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil" is incorrect. A very close childhood friend of mine who I love dearly (just for example) has drank the Kool-Aid and has gone down a super religious wormhole, and is blindly supporting Trump because he's become a single issue voter over abortion. (Which of course is ironic, because good ol' bareback-in-a-porn-star Trump has doubtlessly shot dozens of unprotected loads into any number of gold-digging flings/porn stars, and I'm sure Trump personally doesn't believe the anti abortion stuff at all, it's just pure pandering). My friend is not the scourge of all evil, he's sadly just very misguided at this time. I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

I can be objective with people, but they have to be objective too, to understand just how harmful Trump is. He is like a cancer on this country. Again, the amount of extreme hatred of the US that is surely brewing right now from extremists all around the world, due to Trump's EXTREME lack of tact (among many other things) might make WWIII or some too terrible to imagine scenario happen down the road. It's unthinkable the damage that he is doing, and what he may be setting in motion.

His EXTREME lack of tact is not just a "mere" character flaw. It's an example (one of many) of why he is UNFIT to be president. Some things need to be dealbreakers for the leader of the free world.

I believe in nuance. I almost never believe in purely black & white, good/evil statements. I'll give Mike a smidge of nuace here and there, but it's getting increasingly harder to. Trump has not ever shown he has an ounce of empathy for anyone other than himself, and is such a royal POS that I don't believe he is worthy of any nuance. He's a rotten scumbag to the core.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:40:56 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #246 on: October 24, 2020, 02:16:20 PM »



You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him.

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality, same as Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, he will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence. That's just part of his sick personality and why he is unfit to be president. His lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but the quickest way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

I'm certainly not disputing Trump's obvious character flaws nor the dysfunction taking place with his family and political cabinet.  And although he's undeniably an egomaniac, there are plenty of (albeit buried) stories of him doing kind things specifically for people.  It is important to note that the contentiousness between China and the U.S. has been going on long before Trump ever took office.  And Trump has had some successes in foreign policy particularly in the Middle Eastern peace deal as well as (at least for now) calming the tensions with North Korea somewhat (although I'm hesitant to call that a complete win yet).  It doesn't really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks of the guy as I'm not particularly fond of him myself, but if we've any interest in upholding an egalitarian society we're going to have to learn how to keep our emotions in check and be a lot more objective about folks with differing views.  Even with a guy like Trump. 

Your previous quote "You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil" is incorrect. A very close childhood friend of mine who I love dearly (just for example) has drank the Kool-Aid and has gone down a super religious wormhole, and is blindly supporting Trump because he's become a single issue voter over abortion. (Which of course is ironic, because good ol' bareback-in-a-porn-star Trump has doubtlessly shot dozens of unprotected loads into any number of gold-digging flings/porn stars, and I'm sure Trump personally doesn't believe the anti abortion stuff at all, it's just pure pandering). My friend is not the scourge of all evil, he's sadly just very misguided at this time. I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

I can be objective with people, but they have to be objective too, to understand just how harmful Trump is. He is like a cancer on this country. Again, the amount of extreme hatred of the US that is surely brewing right now from extremists all around the world, due to Trump's EXTREME lack of tact (among many other things) might make WWIII or some too terrible to imagine scenario happen down the road. It's unthinkable the damage that he is doing, and what he may be setting in motion.

I believe in nuance. I almost never believe in purely black & white, good/evil statements. I'll give Mike a smidge of nuace here and there, but it's getting increasingly harder to. Trump has not ever shown he has an ounce of empathy for anyone other than himself, and is such a royal POS that I don't believe he is worthy of any nuance. He's a rotten scumbag to the core.

I guess I'll take your word for it about your friend, but it doesn't sound like you respect him too much if you think he's "drinking the Kool-Aid".  Is it possible that maybe he just came to a different conclusion than you?  And again, your views of Trump are yours.  And while it's fine that you (or anyone else for that matter) may not like or support him, you seem to be hopelessly naďve to that fact that not everyone views him the same way you do.  And yes, no matter how polarizing Trump may be, it is ok that people can support him (and for good reasons that don't include some kind of hatred or bigotry).  Just because *you* view Trump as harmful does not mean that his supporters have to see it that way.  Despite his theatrics Trump's supporters have felt he has delivered at least in providing a strong economy (pre-Covid anyway) and bringing jobs back to the country.  You don't have to agree with them but to dismiss them as "Trumpers" doesn't show a lot of objectivity on your behalf.  We all have our own interests and ideas of which direction we want the country to head.  We're simply not going to all agree on everything.  But instead of trying to shut people down or discredit them for differing views, we're going to have to relearn how to put our emotions aside and engage one another in finding commonality.  Trump did not create all this dysfunction; he is a product of it. 

Anyway I don't want this thread to go off the rails and head for the Sandbox since the Beach Boys have left the discussion.  So I'll just throw in that you could definitely compare Trump's theatrics to Mike Love's as they both have are very polarizing figures in their respective fields.  And despite their obvious character flaws and fair criticisms against them, the hysteria against both of them seems to have gone completely off the rails. 
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« Reply #247 on: October 24, 2020, 02:31:51 PM »



You keep making endless assumptions and overgeneralizations based on your own irrational hysteria over people you don't like.  You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil, so of course his intentions can only be racist and evil.  You are free to believe that and can probably make some kind of case for it based on his abrasive behavior, but that is still your opinion of him.  Not everyone sees it your way and that is ok.  The truth is Trump isn't really that bright of a guy and most likely calls Covid the "Chinese virus" because he blames China for the outbreak; not because he's trying to mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity.  He would likely do the same thing if it had came from Finland, a country with a predominantly white population, which is why I made the comparison.  We may agree that it isn't the most tactful thing for him to do as I imagine it certainly can make some folks uncomfortable, but again I see no definitive evidence that he's doing it to be specifically racist.  It's all about context.  If people want to take his rhetoric and use it as a racist hammer, I'd agree with you that is wrong and no one should be singled out unfairly due to their ethnicity.  But offense is taken and it is never given even if you're trying to be offensive.  It's entirely possible to look at all this objectively and realize that while it might be dodgy to label this virus after an entire country, that doesn't automatically mean racism is intended.

Trump's intentions in this world are solely based on what's in it for him.

I don't think he's trying to "mortally wound Chinese culture or anyone of Asian ethnicity". What he IS trying to do is deflect EVERYTHING off of him, deflect the failed US response to Covid (whether or not you feel it was failed or not, Trump knows that MANY Americans view it as failed), and also while Trump is not very bright, he is skilled very much at being able to manipulate the masses. He knows that racist people will bite on the "CHIIIIIIIIINA VIRUSSSSSSS!!!!" mentality, and that it will get him more supporters.

Trump's own niece (who would know a thing or two about the Trump family) spoke about how Trump's dad drilled in a "never apologize for anything, ever, it's a sign of weakness" type of mentality, same as Mike apparently has. And so to not appear weak, and to not in any way, shape or form accept an iota of responsibility, he will deflect onto something that he knows will make his MAGA extremists get massive hard ons and scream USA! USA!

And if a side effect is a bunch of racist crap hurled at Asian Americans, he could give less than zero f*cks. All he cares about is himself, he has ZERO ZERO ZERO empathy for anyone who isn't him.

His intent is to deflect off of him, and to throw anybody and everybody under the bus, at any and all times, regardless of consequence. That's just part of his sick personality and why he is unfit to be president. His lack of tact is SO extreme, that the amount of massive hatred from foreign extremists who would probably be fine with using violence, I'm sadly sure is increasing EXPONENTIALLY around the world. Tact is a VERY important trait. There's no way to rid the world of all extremists, but the quickest way to cause them to quietly brew is to talk about people and cultures with the continued lack of tact and at times utter contempt that he does.

I'm certainly not disputing Trump's obvious character flaws nor the dysfunction taking place with his family and political cabinet.  And although he's undeniably an egomaniac, there are plenty of (albeit buried) stories of him doing kind things specifically for people.  It is important to note that the contentiousness between China and the U.S. has been going on long before Trump ever took office.  And Trump has had some successes in foreign policy particularly in the Middle Eastern peace deal as well as (at least for now) calming the tensions with North Korea somewhat (although I'm hesitant to call that a complete win yet).  It doesn't really matter to me what you or anyone else thinks of the guy as I'm not particularly fond of him myself, but if we've any interest in upholding an egalitarian society we're going to have to learn how to keep our emotions in check and be a lot more objective about folks with differing views.  Even with a guy like Trump.  

Your previous quote "You believe Trump (along with Mike Love and anyone that doesn't completely hold vile feelings over both of them) to be the scourge of all evil" is incorrect. A very close childhood friend of mine who I love dearly (just for example) has drank the Kool-Aid and has gone down a super religious wormhole, and is blindly supporting Trump because he's become a single issue voter over abortion. (Which of course is ironic, because good ol' bareback-in-a-porn-star Trump has doubtlessly shot dozens of unprotected loads into any number of gold-digging flings/porn stars, and I'm sure Trump personally doesn't believe the anti abortion stuff at all, it's just pure pandering). My friend is not the scourge of all evil, he's sadly just very misguided at this time. I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

I can be objective with people, but they have to be objective too, to understand just how harmful Trump is. He is like a cancer on this country. Again, the amount of extreme hatred of the US that is surely brewing right now from extremists all around the world, due to Trump's EXTREME lack of tact (among many other things) might make WWIII or some too terrible to imagine scenario happen down the road. It's unthinkable the damage that he is doing, and what he may be setting in motion.

I believe in nuance. I almost never believe in purely black & white, good/evil statements. I'll give Mike a smidge of nuace here and there, but it's getting increasingly harder to. Trump has not ever shown he has an ounce of empathy for anyone other than himself, and is such a royal POS that I don't believe he is worthy of any nuance. He's a rotten scumbag to the core.

I guess I'll take your word for it about your friend, but it doesn't sound like you respect him too much if you think he's "drinking the Kool-Aid".  Is it possible that maybe he just came to a different conclusion than you?  And again, your views of Trump are yours.  And while it's fine that you (or anyone else for that matter) may not like or support him, you seem to be hopelessly naďve to that fact that not everyone views him the same way you do.  And yes, no matter how polarizing Trump may be, it is ok that people can support him (and for good reasons that don't include some kind of hatred or bigotry).  Just because *you* view Trump as harmful does not mean that his supporters have to see it that way.  Despite his theatrics Trump's supporters have felt he has delivered at least in providing a strong economy (pre-Covid anyway) and bringing jobs back to the country.  You don't have to agree with them but to dismiss them as "Trumpers" doesn't show a lot of objectivity on your behalf.  We all have our own interests and ideas of which direction we want the country to head.  We're simply not going to all agree on everything.  But instead of trying to shut people down or discredit them for differing views, we're going to have to relearn how to put our emotions aside and engage one another in finding commonality.  Trump did not create all this dysfunction; he is a product of it.  

Anyway I don't want this thread to go off the rails and head for the Sandbox since the Beach Boys have left the discussion.  So I'll just throw in that you could definitely compare Trump's theatrics to Mike Love's as they both have are very polarizing figures in their respective fields.  And despite their obvious character flaws and fair criticisms against them, the hysteria against both of them seems to have gone completely off the rails.  

Some candidates (a very select few) are THAT bad, that it's unacceptable for them to be in office, and I can't just "let it go" and be OK with Trump supporters and say, "oh well". I mean, I cannot force (nor would I want to force) anyone to change their minds, but I sure as hell hope that people can come to their senses. I mean, Adolf Hitler, David Duke, Tom Metzger, those would be guys who we'd probably not be arguing about. Somewhere, everyone has a line that they draw in the sand. I hated the Bushes, but there were in no way remotely so unfit to be president compared to the tool who's in there now.

Getting Trump out of office and BRI voting Mike out power to disable his ability to drag the brand name into the mud would be a wonderful way to end this otherwise awful year. Neither are fit for the power they hold. Mike has abused his power in such a gross way. Although I can imagine that Mike has figured out a way to try and prevent that from ever happening due to who knows what types of legal wrangling behind the scenes.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 02:32:53 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #248 on: October 24, 2020, 04:06:40 PM »

It was originally referred to as a Chinese virus when it was predominantly occurring only in China. Since then Trump has used the term as a political tool to defer blame from his failed administration to some external place, which results in xenophobia IMO. Additionally, it’s been used since then as racist dog whistle crap, like tons of sh*t he says.

Even had the virus never left the borders of China, and hundreds of thousands were dying solely in China to this day, would it still be right to call it the “Chinese” virus right now? Because even if the virus doesn’t jump this man-made line, you are still potentially stigmatizing the people of a country by using the name of the country/city where the virus originated.

For example, it’s the same reason the Ebola virus got its name: the scientists didn’t want to bring shame to the village where it started, so they decided not to use that in the name, but instead found a small river nearby named “Ebola” to name it after. So if 50 years ago, at the place and time of origin of a deadly virus, scientists had enough sense to not put the name of the country or town in the name of a virus, why did the people at CNN, WaPo, and NYT not have this same sense when COVID-19 started and why don’t they get chastised for it now (instead of excuses being made for them)?

I'm not defending Trump here, he is the president and bears the responsibility for the safety of his people, and using any sort of means to deflect blame is reprehensible. But at first you implied this was about racism (as you compared the saying of "Chinese virus" to "white people virus" even though the latter is a race and the former is a country full of different races and cultures) and now it's just xenophobic to help deflect blame from Trump...be that as it may, it's just not good optics when garbage news organizations are given a pass and Trump isn't...when they likely both deserve backlash.

Just because someone “has an African American member” or just because 30% of Asian-Americans May support Trump (not sure if that’s actually true or where that data came from), does not mean he does not condone and breed racist behavior among inclined Americans. Look around.

Do not put quotes around a statement I did not say. I said "African American members" not "member" and as the organization in reference has nothing to do with Trump breeding or not condoning racist behavior I don't know why you brought it up.

As for the 30% of Asian American Trump supporters - the data seems to be true and the data came from the source I linked in the exact sentence you're referring to - it's a link to a Los Angeles Times article that used polling information from Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders Data, and Asian Americans Advancing Justice. It was polling from September 15, 2020. The link to the poll is here.

1- I am not the arbiter of what is "okay" or not. Kind of like the other poster saying "is it a fact?" etc. I am simply pointing out use of the term "Chinese virus" is racially and culturally insensitive. I can't think of any defense in the use of this term.

Then you're clearly not thinking very hard enough.  Some people refer to Covid as the "Chinese virus" simply because the virus reportedly originated from that country.  That's basically it.  Maybe it's a slight knock to their government for the outbreak since the U.S./China relationship has always been a contentious one.  But I've yet to see anyone use this label as a means to degrade Chinese people or culture (or any Asian culture for that matter) in any fashion.  Had the virus originated in another country such as Finland, would you have any qualms with people calling it the "Finnish Virus"?  Probably not, so let's please can the self-important virtue signaling.  

Am I not thinking hard enough, or are you not reading hard enough?

I said it’s racially and culturally insensitive to use the term “Chinese virus”. That’s not particularly controversial or debatable. Providing logical explanations for why people might “innocently” use an offensive term is not a valid defense IMO. It’s a cop out.

Ha “virtue signaling”, gimme a break. Clearly you’ve yet to see it because you see what you want to see. I personally learned about Coronavirus for the first time back in January via a Chinese American  friend who casually mentioned “everyone is looking at me funny when I sneeze”. Open your eyes, or get out of your Breitbart bubble or something.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 04:20:41 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #249 on: October 24, 2020, 05:01:04 PM »

I am liberal and agree with mtaber....
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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