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Author Topic: Carl on Stars and Stripes  (Read 4596 times)
Lonely Summer
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« on: August 21, 2020, 06:52:46 PM »

I was watching the Nashville Sounds video last night (aka Stars and Stripes) and noticed that Carl is not involved in a lot of the background vocal sessions. How much of the album was he actually a part of?
Strange time in their career.
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2020, 07:55:17 PM »

I can't answer your question, but yes, it was a strange time.  I remember reading an EW article about the Baywatch Nights song (still have it somewhere) with Brian talking about how great it was, and how they were going to add Carl's guitar next.  I was so pumped.  Then nothing, and suddenly they are on late night singing backup to a country singer.  I made my college roommates watch it, and their reaction was, "Why did they sell out?"  Leave it to them to keep you guessing.
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2020, 10:46:20 PM »

I can't answer your question, but yes, it was a strange time.  I remember reading an EW article about the Baywatch Nights song (still have it somewhere) with Brian talking about how great it was, and how they were going to add Carl's guitar next.  I was so pumped.  Then nothing, and suddenly they are on late night singing backup to a country singer.  I made my college roommates watch it, and their reaction was, "Why did they sell out?"  Leave it to them to keep you guessing.
Yeah, very disappointing. I do like Willie Nelson singing "Warmth of the Sun"; "Caroline, No" with Timothy B. is nice; but getting this after being promised NEW BB's material...a head scratcher.
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2020, 09:43:33 AM »

The liner notes say that Carl sang on everything except “Long Tall Texan.”
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2020, 11:22:48 AM »

I was watching the Nashville Sounds video last night (aka Stars and Stripes) and noticed that Carl is not involved in a lot of the background vocal sessions. How much of the album was he actually a part of?
Strange time in their career.

That is, he wasn't filmed singing during backing vocal sessions. My understanding is that for documentaries of this sort, the footage of folks recording is almost always staged.
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2020, 01:31:55 PM »

Funny I always thought that with the exception of Carl most of the background vocals were non distinguishable amongst the boys themselves. Carl's voice is always very distinguishable on the songs he sings on.
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2020, 06:05:03 AM »

I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd.
I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is
there, but no Carl.  But Kathy is sensational..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2020, 06:10:28 AM »

I can hear music was a highlight for me along with Willy's warmth of the Sun. But I think the defining moment of this collection was the tag on Caroline no. In my opinion that was the best on the album
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2020, 06:40:53 AM »

Plus, I just noticed the entire hour long program is actually on youtube.  I hadn't seen it since
it originally aired, and watching it, it's actually better than I remembered.  Plus, Carl IS on a lot
of the sessions, which surprised me.  Especially on "Don't Worry Baby" with Lorrie Morgan.
https://youtu.be/aReNif20hcg
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2020, 09:39:22 AM »

"Your memory is getting senile!" No -yours is!
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2020, 01:15:26 PM »

I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd.
I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is
there, but no Carl.  But Kathy is sensational..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE
Yeah, that was a highlight, and I had never heard Kathy before.
And agree with the post above that a lot of this stuff was probably staged.
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2020, 05:22:26 PM »

I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd.
I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is
there, but no Carl.  But Kathy is sensational..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE

Not definitive evidence but is that Carl at 1.19 and 1.26 of the clip singing the high part solo? This link lists the credits and his name is mentioned as being on the vocals.

https://www.lyrics007.com/lyrics/the-beach-boys-feat-kathy-troccoli-i-can-hear-music/TnpBMU9ESXc=

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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 01:35:17 AM »

I recall Carl being on many of the tracks in the videos, but not "I Can Hear Music", which I thought was odd.
I'm one of those who really liked both the CD and the doc, but this is my favorite on both, the whole group is
there, but no Carl.  But Kathy is sensational..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBJP4RS4VE
Yeah, that was a highlight, and I had never heard Kathy before.
And agree with the post above that a lot of this stuff was probably staged.



These things usually are staged. No one wants a camera in the studio while doing the actual recording. Too much distraction, possible noises etc. The control room is a different thing, so the shots of Brian and Joe Thomas at the board could very well come from the sessions.
It's also not unlikely that the Boys recorded parts of their vocals separately. Tammy Wynette's "In my room" was released with only Brian doing a couple of bakgrounds while the Nashville Sounds DVD has the Beach Boys' voices. My guess is that Brian recorded his parts first and then had the rest of the boys sing their's.
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2020, 01:02:34 PM »

I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session.

I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc.

It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage.
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2020, 05:59:09 PM »

I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session.

I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc.

It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage.
Yes, I would think the footage with Nelson is legit - like where Mike is trying to help him with the phrasing. That's not the kind of thing they would just make up.
The video wouldn't be anything special, except now, looking back, knowing that Carl would be gone shortly after.
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 09:50:43 AM »

I don't think *all* of the studio footage is completely fabricated. I doubt "Stars and Stripes" had a big enough budget to record the entire album, then go *back* traveling to each individual artist, book a recording studio, all just to re-enact a session.

I think in some cases they did some filming to augment the documentary. What you see being "recorded" is probably not the exact recording you hear on the album, but in some cases it was done *while* they were in the studio recording with that artist. I think all that Willie Nelson footage is from the actual session they booked to record with him. You may just not be seeing matching audio and video, etc.

It's actually equally likely *more* overdubs took place after filming, in cases where one might think they hear Carl even though he's not in the footage.
Yes, I would think the footage with Nelson is legit - like where Mike is trying to help him with the phrasing. That's not the kind of thing they would just make up.
The video wouldn't be anything special, except now, looking back, knowing that Carl would be gone shortly after.


Yes, probably at the sessions, but not while the actual recording happened. If I'm not mistaken, Willie's performance was the very first one and at that point a album concept didn't even exist. That may also be a reason why Willie and the Boys were recording at a different studio than seemingly all the other tracks.
You can see Brian standing besides Willie, while he sings and watches over to Brian for his opinion. That's one of my favorite scenes. (Willie and Brian also performed it at Farm Aid)
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2020, 05:59:32 AM »

Yeah, the session with Willie was the first, and I believe it was held at his own studio in Texas.
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2020, 07:54:06 AM »

For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  Smiley


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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2020, 09:55:06 AM »

For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  Smiley



I would like to know what happened to Hank Jr covering HMR, and who else was on the docket besides Tammy Wynette with In My Room and Rodney Crowell with Sail on Sailor.
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2020, 10:10:24 AM »

For those with doubts or questions about Stars & Stripes, this is the background, of course corrections and comments welcome...but this is pretty much the deal.

Those names in the album credits, "Eddie Haddad" and "Dan Wojcik", Haddad is a promoter and Wojcik was a booking agent (he since passed away).

Eddie Haddad's company is EJH Entertainment, and they organize, manage, and promote concerts and events among other things. Mike Love was one of Haddad's clients, and EJH not only was a consultant to Mike but also was involved in the NASCAR salute release that was given out at "76" gas stations in the 90's. Hank Williams Jr was a client too.

Dan Wojcik as a booking agent had a lot of Nashville and country music clients with his agency "Entertainment Artists", and booked shows, did promotions, etc working also with Joe Thomas' company River North Records which was in Chicago and Nashville in the 90's. River North was the label for Stars & Stripes. Dan also worked with Hank Jr.

So Haddad who had promoted shows for Hank Jr and the Beach Boys said to Joe Thomas how it would be a good idea if Hank Jr recorded a cover of "Help Me Rhonda". Joe agreed. That explains that credit on the album liners.

Joe Thomas got in touch with Mike Love, according to the liners it involved Dan Wojcik in the process. There is that explanation of that credit in the liners. Wojcik seems to have been the go-between or the facilitator to get Joe in touch with Mike. I'm sure it wasn't that simple, but still...there were the connections that explain the album credits with these names.

Joe mentioned the idea to Mike, and Mike and Joe started planning things out and running ideas for it to happen. So there is Mike's role from the start - he was the point of contact at this time, it's who Joe went to in order to discuss the project and make plans.

In planning the project, again it was originally the thought to have Hank Jr cut a version of Help Me Rhonda, Willie Nelson's name came up. Mike's offer was if they get Willie Nelson, they'll get Brian Wilson too, in return. So Mike got Joe in contact with Brian, and Brian says I'll do it if you get Willie to sing "Warmth Of The Sun".

The band traveled to Texas and cut Warmth Of The Sun at Willie's studio, with Brian's participation and obvious support (it was his 'demand' if you will to have Willie cut that song out of all the choices), and thus began the project. Willie was the first to record with them, and having him involved gave the project some clout in Nashville - If Willie did it, it's legit, all of that political Nashville music biz stuff that goes on. Willie was happy, the band was happy, it rolled on.

Then the guests and song choices started coming in, to the point where eventually they had enough to have two Stars & Stripes albums.

James House was given the lead single, he was the singer i mentioned earlier was on Letterman with the surviving Beach Boys doing backup for him. "Little Deuce Coupe". There were plans to have House be the opening act for Beach Boys live shows as well. There was a TV special too (which I also recorded in the day), and I know Kathy Troccoli was on the Regis and Kathie Lee show with the Beach Boys (minus Brian) to perform and promote "I Can Hear Music".

So that's about it. An idea from a promoter to have Hank Jr cover a BB's song put Joe Thomas in touch with Mike Love, who together outlined plans for the project and got the ball rolling. Brian got involved after Willie Nelson agreed to do Warmth Of The Sun. Everything (and everyone) involved after that initial session at Willie's studio in Texas you'll have to fill in the rest.  Smiley



I would like to know what happened to Hank Jr covering HMR, and who else was on the docket besides Tammy Wynette with In My Room and Rodney Crowell with Sail on Sailor.



Reports mentioned the possibility of having Hank Jr, Dolly Parton, Merle Haggard (I believe the solo "California Saga" Al recorded - used in Endless Harmony - was a demo for Haggard; it does indeed sound a lot like his singing style). Ronnie Milsap was supposed to do "Surfer girl" and Steve Earle to do "Shut down", I heard.

Having a realistic "What could've been" of this album is actually one of my favorite phantasies of 90s Beach Boys. Here's a couple of ideas:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12521.msg635016/topicseen.html#msg635016


Just imagine what George Jones would sound like on "God only knows". He and Tammy Wynette just did a new album together at that time so maybe they could've done a duet on "Let's put our hearts together"... So much potential for an interesting and great release. But as it's the Beach Boys, so it became what we have today.
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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2020, 10:58:49 AM »

I would buy an album of George Jones singing the phone book...one of the best voices, if not the best, in country music. Man would that have been awesome to hear George sing one of the band's tunes. It's a shame more of the guest artists mentioned didn't materialize for the album. BUT - We got Willie singing, and that for me is the hands-down highlight of the S&S album.
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2020, 12:09:09 AM »

Well, at least Al was smart enough to have Glen Campbell sing on Postcards.
And I never could figure out what Timothy B. Schmidt and Kathy Trocolli were doing on an album of country singers.
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2020, 01:35:54 AM »

Well, at least Al was smart enough to have Glen Campbell sing on Postcards.
And I never could figure out what Timothy B. Schmidt and Kathy Trocolli were doing on an album of country singers.


Well, Schmit is a member of the Eagles and they are considered Country Rock. So, I guess that was the idea.
Troccoli seems to come from the Contemporary Christian Music field. Possibly the thoughts were that you can't make a conservative Country record without appealing to conservative Christians....? The audience they try to reach is definitely the conservative one. But I don't know, she does a very good job singing it. But again, the album is just a waste of time even for Country fans imo, except for a couple of tracks (Willie obviously and Lorrie Morgan) and the fact that it's the last recording of Carl with the Beach Boys. 
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2020, 03:16:17 AM »

I would buy an album of George Jones singing the phone book...one of the best voices, if not the best, in country music. Man would that have been awesome to hear George sing one of the band's tunes. It's a shame more of the guest artists mentioned didn't materialize for the album.


Yes, definitely! What a voice and what a singer! Also a favorite is Ray Price who seemingly gets criminally overlooked although being incredibly influential. Could you hear him doing "Keep an eye on summer" or even "Busy doin' nothing" in the style of his "You're the best thing that ever happened to me"?

BTW, instead of "Help me, Rhonda" - of which he certainly would've done a very good job - I could hear Hank Jr. do "Back home".
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2020, 06:43:50 AM »

One of the biggest misfires of their career. They put it together at a time when many of the cool younger indie artists had just (re-)discovered the Beach Boys, with bands like the High Llamas or Saint Etienne being huge fans. The Beach Boys, however, did not care. Instead they released this album made for an older conservative audience that wasn't interested in this project at all.
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