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Author Topic: What actually happened to Dennis' aborted solo album in '72?  (Read 4866 times)
Tom
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« on: August 11, 2020, 08:37:11 PM »

I understand that he went though a divorce around that time, but otherwise I've not seen much explanation as to why his first solo project was scrapped. Was it the failure of Sound of Free/Lady that dissuaded him?

I feel like Dennis showed a huge amount of potential as a writer in the early 70's, but he squandered it to a degree.
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maggie
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2020, 08:41:31 AM »

I understand that he went though a divorce around that time, but otherwise I've not seen much explanation as to why his first solo project was scrapped. Was it the failure of Sound of Free/Lady that dissuaded him?

I feel like Dennis showed a huge amount of potential as a writer in the early 70's, but he squandered it to a degree.

I don't have any insight, but it's interesting to think how much of that notional solo album ended up coming out anyway:

* Cuddle Up
* Make It Good
* Sound of Free
* Lady
* Only With You (albeit with a Carl vocal)
* Barbara (in demo form)

And that's leaving aside whatever material eventually recorded during the POB/Bambu sessions originated during this period, and the stuff that was definitely earmarked for the Beach Boys (e.g. WIBNTLA).

I don't know that I agree with the premise that Dennis "squandered" his potential. Taking these songs and the POB/Bambu material into account, did any other member of the band except Brian compose as much during the '70s?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 08:42:03 AM by maggie » Logged
Matt H
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2020, 09:05:22 AM »

I understand that he went though a divorce around that time, but otherwise I've not seen much explanation as to why his first solo project was scrapped. Was it the failure of Sound of Free/Lady that dissuaded him?

I feel like Dennis showed a huge amount of potential as a writer in the early 70's, but he squandered it to a degree.

I don't have any insight, but it's interesting to think how much of that notional solo album ended up coming out anyway:

* Cuddle Up
* Make It Good
* Sound of Free
* Lady
* Only With You (albeit with a Carl vocal)
* Barbara (in demo form)

And that's leaving aside whatever material eventually recorded during the POB/Bambu sessions originated during this period, and the stuff that was definitely earmarked for the Beach Boys (e.g. WIBNTLA).

I don't know that I agree with the premise that Dennis "squandered" his potential. Taking these songs and the POB/Bambu material into account, did any other member of the band except Brian compose as much during the '70s?

The following songs were also talked about:

* It's a New Day
* Behold the Night
* Ecology
* Baby Baby
* Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again
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WillJC
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2020, 09:06:14 AM »

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:38:39 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
maggie
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2020, 09:13:26 AM »

Cuddle Up, Make It Good and Only With You succeeded the solo album sessions, Lady and Sound of Free preceded them (you could maybe count Sound of Free, but Lady is a Sunflower outtake). The only one of those from the batch is Barbara. An embryonic version of Cuddle Up existed, albeit called Ol' Movie and it wasn't exactly the same piece of music.

Material from those sessions (1971, not '72), mostly unfinished:
- Fourth of July
- Barnyard Blues
- Ol' Movie
- Ecology
- Barbara
- Live Again
- Behold the Night
- It's a New Day
- Hawaii Song
- Before
- I've Got a Friend
- Baby Baby
- Sea Cruise

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't include 4th of July as I assumed the Rieley cowrites weren't considered for the solo album.

I didn't know "Sea Cruise" went back that far.
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phirnis
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2020, 01:16:50 PM »

Wasn't Sea Cruise a 15 Big Ones production?
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DeanEntwistle
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2020, 01:27:34 PM »

Wasn't Sea Cruise a 15 Big Ones production?
Yes and no, this is a rough attempt done by Dennis in 1971-ish (and he doesn't even knows the words/lyrics) it was just a rough jam session attempt.
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DeanEntwistle
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 01:29:20 PM »

Cuddle Up, Make It Good and Only With You succeeded the solo album sessions, Lady and Sound of Free preceded them (you could maybe count Sound of Free, but Lady is a Sunflower outtake). The only one of those from the batch is Barbara. An embryonic version of Cuddle Up exists, albeit called Ol' Movie and it isn't exactly the same piece of music.

Material from those sessions (1971, not '72), mostly unfinished:
- Fourth of July
- Barnyard Blues
- Ol' Movie
- Ecology
- Barbara
- Live Again
- Behold the Night
- It's a New Day
- Hawaii Song
- Before
- I've Got a Friend
- Baby Baby
- Sea Cruise
the version of Barnyard Blues is only piano demo recorded in 1971, the actual/final product was recorded in 1974.
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Tony S
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2020, 01:54:26 PM »

 Angry sea cruise doesn't sound like it was recorded by Dennis in 1971. Vocal seemed much too rough for what his voice sounded like at that time on sunflower. Sounds more like 76-77ish.
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DeanEntwistle
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2020, 02:07:12 PM »

Angry sea cruise doesn't sound like it was recorded by Dennis in 1971. Vocal seemed much too rough for what his voice sounded like at that time on sunflower. Sounds more like 76-77ish.
the 1971 version was a quick rough attempt done by Dennis and that version remains unreleased, the 1975-76 version was a new recording.
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WillJC
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2020, 03:33:26 PM »

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:38:31 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
Tom
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2020, 04:03:49 PM »

I don't know that I agree with the premise that Dennis "squandered" his potential. Taking these songs and the POB/Bambu material into account, did any other member of the band except Brian compose as much during the '70s?

You're right, I guess what I should've said is I feel he had commercial potential which wasn't realised for one reason or another. I think one reason is that he started writing more and more ballads rather than dynamic rock songs after '71 or so. Personally I love some of the ballads on POB, but others feel a bit lethargic, and I find myself wishing there was more straight funk/soul like Dreamer on there.
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2020, 06:18:51 PM »

One important thing to remember is that Dennis did not yet have a solo record deal at the time. He had the one-off deal for the "SOF/Lady" single, but despite the label being EMI/Stateside, it wasn't a "stateside" deal, and was only released overseas. That label apparently didn't pick up his option (imagine the irony if they had - the band leaves Capitol with hard feelings, but one of their members ends up in a solo deal with their parent company!). Warner Bros. apparently showed no interest in him as a solo artist, at least none that's ever been mentioned. And with no record deal, he had no recording budget - he was fortunate to be able to use the studio at Brian's house, and fortunate to have a recording partner like Daryl, but when it came time to overdub strings onto "Lady", they had to sneak that into a string session for the group, funded by Warners. "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up" didn't get their orchestral overdubs until those tracks were slated for the So Tough album, and then that session was held using the band's recording budget. He might have been able to finish a brilliant album with the resources he had, but with no label interest, it would have sat on a shelf. Dennis continued to record brilliant pieces over the next couple of years, but he didn't really get motivated to pursue a solo career until Jim Guercio offered him encouragement and an actual deal.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 06:30:47 PM by c-man » Logged
phirnis
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2020, 11:26:32 PM »

Wasn't Sea Cruise a 15 Big Ones production?
Yes and no, this is a rough attempt done by Dennis in 1971-ish (and he doesn't even knows the words/lyrics) it was just a rough jam session attempt.

Ah, that makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying! Love the released version.
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Tom
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2020, 01:29:15 AM »

Thanks c-man for the clear answer - makes sense. I do find it odd that Warner weren't interested in Dennis as a solo artist, since the whole narrative around Sunflower is that it was 'saved' to a degree by Dennis's songs, whereas the label had been unhappy with the earlier lineups. That would seem to indicate that they had some belief in the commercial viability of Dennis' material - but I guess marketing that under Dennis' name was a tougher sell.
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c-man
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2020, 05:47:13 AM »

Thanks c-man for the clear answer - makes sense. I do find it odd that Warner weren't interested in Dennis as a solo artist, since the whole narrative around Sunflower is that it was 'saved' to a degree by Dennis's songs, whereas the label had been unhappy with the earlier lineups. That would seem to indicate that they had some belief in the commercial viability of Dennis' material - but I guess marketing that under Dennis' name was a tougher sell.

The addition of "Cool Cool Water" is mostly what "saved" Sunflower in Warners' eyes (or ears). It's true the group added the Capitol-era tracks "Forever", "Got To Know The Woman', "Deirdre", and "All I Wanna Do", but the label still wasn't satisfied - it's only when they heard "Cool Cool Water" and the group got Brian to finish it, that they were willing to release the album.
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Tom
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2020, 03:15:39 PM »

Fair enough - I'd had the impression that the late addition of It's About Time also might've helped.

It's funny to me that Cool Cool Water was the game changer there. It's a neat recording but there's not that much to it as a song, really. I guess it was just the quasi-connection to Smile.
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2020, 12:35:09 AM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.
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c-man
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2020, 08:03:42 PM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.


Lenny Waronker's a big fan of Brian's more artsy, suite-y stuff...he wanted something modular, something akin to "Good Vibrations" for Sunflower, so Brian and Mike came up with "Cool Cool Water". Later, he wanted something modular, akin to "Heroes And Villains" for Brian Wilson '88, so Brian and Andy came up with "Rio Grande". I think this is a rare case of a label exec wanting something substantially arty, more than commercial.
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2020, 08:41:34 PM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.


Lenny Waronker's a big fan of Brian's more artsy, suite-y stuff...he wanted something modular, something akin to "Good Vibrations" for Sunflower, so Brian and Mike came up with "Cool Cool Water". Later, he wanted something modular, akin to "Heroes And Villains" for Brian Wilson '88, so Brian and Andy came up with "Rio Grande". I think this is a rare case of a label exec wanting something substantially arty, more than commercial.

I heard that Lenny Waronker had heard early versions of Cool Cool Water when Brian was working on it in '67 and remembered it when they were putting together the album, so he asked about it and the song was finished off. The structure was already there except for the "in an ocean or in a glass" bits and the chants which Brian did not want them to use but they did anyway. Or so it was said.
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Tom
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2020, 11:07:21 PM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.

It's true - I wonder if Slip on Through/This Whole World could have done better with proper promotion. It's the best single they possibly could've offered at that point in time, and on quality alone it clearly deserved to do well. I guess Add Some Music having been the lead single might have hurt their chances by reinforcing that the Beach Boys were old hat.
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2020, 07:46:45 AM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.

It's true - I wonder if Slip on Through/This Whole World could have done better with proper promotion. It's the best single they possibly could've offered at that point in time, and on quality alone it clearly deserved to do well. I guess Add Some Music having been the lead single might have hurt their chances by reinforcing that the Beach Boys were old hat.

Yeah, the label did a BIG promotional push for the "Add Some Music" single, and I seem to recall they broke a record for advance orders (not from consumers, but from retailers). However, radio station airplay didn't meet expectations, retail sales were minimal, and it was another six months before the album came out - all in all, a recipe for commercial disaster.
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2020, 06:38:36 PM »

I am as big a  DW fan as there is, but this album would have needed a few up tempo songs too.  A looooot of ballads.  Nothing wrong with those, but he could write rockers too.
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Tom
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2020, 08:39:52 PM »

Yeah, many of Dennis' best songs were his soul-rock efforts imo (I even think All I Want to Do is quite strong with his lead vocal). I wish he'd kept going in that style - i.e. Slip on Through, I'm Going Your Way, It's a New Day (even though latter two feel pretty unfinished, especially lyrically and on the B-sections). I guess he just preferred writing ballads at the end of the day.
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2020, 09:03:04 PM »

As much as I love "Cool Cool Water", in strictly commercial terms none of these songs saved Sunflower eventually.


Lenny Waronker's a big fan of Brian's more artsy, suite-y stuff...he wanted something modular, something akin to "Good Vibrations" for Sunflower, so Brian and Mike came up with "Cool Cool Water". Later, he wanted something modular, akin to "Heroes And Villains" for Brian Wilson '88, so Brian and Andy came up with "Rio Grande". I think this is a rare case of a label exec wanting something substantially arty, more than commercial.

Speaking of which I’ll never understand why the single version chopped off the first half of the song. To me it made it a bit disjointed
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