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680742 Posts in 27613 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims April 18, 2024, 05:03:35 PM
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Author Topic: Pet Squares #3 The Surfer Girl album just released on youTube  (Read 6409 times)
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2021, 01:49:40 PM »

The west coat folk rock type records that come to mind for me are Turtles, Mamas & Papas, PF Sloan/early Grass Roots, stuff like that. To me that is very much in line with the lack of compression on individual elements but used on vocals and final mix. Tracks like “You Baby”, “Where Were You When I Needed You”, etc. These are very different from the Byrds compressed 12 string sound, and to me that is the sort of standard or normal west coast ‘60s folk rock studio sound.

I think the Monkees would be th early example of a West Coast group beginning to sort of utilize techniques from the Beatles/UK. This was everywhere by 1968. I don’t hear much of it before 1968, and I don’t hear it as an across the board thing for the Monkees (just some key tracks).

I believe the technical distinction between limiting and compression is the ratio. But in practice, I hear compression as a slower, more gradual effect and limiting to be this sort of harder, tight sound. The LA2A is not an aggressive sounding piece of gear as far as my experience. The 1176 is pretty aggressive sounding. Though of course either can be used however anyone wants it to be. I don’t honestly know if the “compressor” on the Byrds 12 string sound is a limiter or not but it’s certainly a more extreme setting than say, anything you’ll hear on Forever Changes.


Yeah it's interesting that the 1176 is a more extreme sound when I feel like the 176 is such a beautiful light touch.  The LA-2A is really chill, you've gotta hit it so hard to make it sound like "an effect."  But the LA-3A is a little edgier.

Yeh I guess they’re both “compressors” for the most part ... I think I’m really talking about the change to the 1176 type sound (along with more individual, separate tracks and less reverb) that seemed to take hold around 1968.

It could just be my ears, but I hear elements of The Turtles' biggest hit "Happy Together" being compressed, specifically John Barbata's drums (that snare!), and perhaps some on the lead guitar track too, beyond what sounds like a pretty well-compressed overall mix. I hear it too on some Paul Revere & The Raiders tracks, like "Hungry" with that fuzz guitar track, which might make sense because Terry Melcher produced them too. Both were cut in '66.

Again it could be my ears, or whatever mix we're hearing (radio mono single mix versus album or stereo, etc), but I do hear compression on those '66 tracks that were also associated with LA and the LA sound. So there were other producers, bands, and engineers using it too.

The LA-2A is definitely a less intense and some might say more transparent unit, mainly because it's an optical compressor with tube guts, unlike the 1176 which was solid-state without the light-beam technology, but it can be pushed hard too - Just not as hard as the 1176. The optical compressors by design are more transparent sounding, or even more natural, but they could still be pushed hard.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
DonnyL
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2021, 02:50:36 PM »

I don’t hear the drums as compressed on “Happy Together”, maybe “She’s My Girl” but I’m not sure even that one is. Definitely on the final mixes and vocals in both cases though IMO.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 02:51:52 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2021, 02:57:33 PM »

This was a Sunset Sound Botnick track, no mention of compressors so who knows ... but based on the simplicity of the recording arrangement, I’d say it seems unlikely:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mixonline.com/recording/classic-tracks-turtles-happy-together-365864%3famp

Maybe someone could email Botnick.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2021, 03:15:28 PM »

This was a Sunset Sound Botnick track, no mention of compressors so who knows ... but based on the simplicity of the recording arrangement, I’d say it seems unlikely:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mixonline.com/recording/classic-tracks-turtles-happy-together-365864%3famp

Maybe someone could email Botnick.

One key element of that track (and song) which no one mentions in that article is Chip Douglas, who was the arranger, bassist, vocalist, and basically the producer of that record!  Grin  Or at least a lot if not most of the credit for the sound of it should go to Chip in a production sense, he took a very bare demo and worked it into the hit record it became. Not a mention!

I've also heard that some of the sweetening like the oboe part and strings was not done by live musicians, but by what was probably a Chamberlain (someone on Wikipedia has it logged as a Mellotron but in '66 they weren't in LA as far as I know). Lot of missing info about that track, one of the most iconic of that era for sure.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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