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Author Topic: Danelectro 6 on BBs records - a video introduction  (Read 2038 times)
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2020, 11:21:45 PM »

Also, who played Bellzouki on Anaheim?

Looking at the session contract, we can narrow it down.

Bass — Jimmy Bond, Lyle Ritz

Keyboards — Leon Russell (tack piano, and later harpsichord)

Drums — Earl Palmer, Hal Blaine (playing in tandem, in unison)

Guitars — Glen Campbell, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, Bill Pitman


Looking at the guitar players . . .

Bill Pitman played Dano . . . reading Guitar III.

Glen Campbell could not read music, so he likely played chords, looking at Guitar I . . . That's not to say Campbell could not rip a lead solo with the best of them. He could. But these parts were specific.

That leaves Billy Strange and Tommy Tedesco. It's been a while since I listened to the session tape, but both of these guys were capable of doing it. It was one of these two, reading Guitar II. And the one who did not play Bellzouki would have read from either Guitar I or Guitar !!, as both charts had the chord progressions.

Great, thank you.  It's really helpful to get outside the Brian Wilson session routine.  It's also extraordinarily useful that you have the parts and the scores for this stuff.  Wish Brian used a copyist and kept his charts...

Mark (or anybody else), have you ever heard of any other caches of preserved scores, charts, and parts from the LA pop music scene?  That kind of thing would be...of inestimable value to my research.
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« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2020, 11:58:15 PM »

Off topic, but Jan Berry used the Dano 6-string bass a lot for Jan & Dean sessions, usually played by Bill Pitman.

The Dano parts were written in the treble clef, as opposed to bass clef, and they usually doubled the main bass line, note for note.

Jan's original music scores and charts from the '60s still exist. All of the bass lines for his sessions were written out, exactly as you hear them on the records.

Ooh, hey Mark -- I have been hoping you'd visit because I actually have some questions for you along this line:

One, when Jan wrote for Dano was the part labelled "Danelectro 6-string Bass" or "6-string Bass" or "dano" or what?

And also - slightly more off topic but again, it's my topic:  When he wrote for 12-string electric guitar did he differentiate between Bellzouki and generic 12-string?  I know you told me once that AACSCBRTA specifically calls for Bellzouki; was that an isolated incident or did he ever write for generic electric 12-string?

Thanks!!!

aeijtzsche,

“Anaheim” example . . .

“ANAHEIM, AZUSA” (1964)

Three guitar parts:

Guitar I — Features chords with rhythm slashes when needed, when certain combinations of quarter, eighth, and sixteenth notes were required. Certain lead licks are also written in pitch notation.

Guitar II — Dano Bellzouki 12-String. This is also a combination lead and rhythm part, but not the same as Guitar I. The lead licks are written in pitch notation, supplemented by rhythm slashes. Obviously, the chord progressions are the same on each guitar chart.

Guitar III — Labeled as “Bass Guitar.” Written in the treble clef, entirely in pitch notation. This was the Dano Six-String, which doubled the bass line.


Two Bass Parts:

Written in the bass clef, entirely in pitch notation. The parts were String Bass and Fender Bass. The two bass players read from the same chart. They played in unison except where the notes indicated an octave. When octaves were required, the Fender played the higher notes. Jan’s instructions on the score and charts were, “Fender Take Top Notes” and “Fender – Top Notes.”

The above example is easily at hand. Without going back and looking, I recall that Jan’s bass guitar charts are labeled in various ways. For example, “Dano,” “Bass Guitar,” and “6-String.” And sometimes just “Guitar III” or “Guitar 3.” The third guitar part is usually a dead giveaway, regardless of labeling, because it doubles the bass line in pitch notation.

“Guitar II” was not always Bellzouki, of course, which Jan used sparingly.

But he did like 12-String guitar in general, and he used it a lot in 1965. For example, the guitar opening to the hit single “I Found a Girl” is 12-String, played by P. F. Sloan.

The opening of Jan’s cover of “Norwegian Wood” (signature riff), which he began recording in late ’65, is also 12-String, played by Don Peake.



This is fascinating - I had not known about any of this. I’m a mega fan of PF Sloan however and have read his book too ... while Jan & Dean’s version of “I Found A Girl” is one of their greatest cuts IMO, I do prefer the PF Sloan version! But that’s the case with most of his songs for me.

PF did claim that he sang some major parts on many Jan & Dean records. Is this validated?

P. F. Sloan and Steve Barri were Screen Gems songwriters hired by Lou Adler, Jan & Dean’s manager and head of the West Coast Office of Screen Gems. They later followed Adler to Dunhill Productions and Trousdale Music.

Jan Berry was signed to Screen Gems, with three separate contracts as an artist, songwriter, and record producer.

Sloan and Barri began singing harmonies for Jan & Dean in 1964 while still at Screen Gems, after the Matadors—who sang harmonies on the Surf City and Drag City LPs—went their separate way.

Jan Berry tapped Sloan to sing the falsetto lead on several well-known Jan & Dean tracks, including “The Little Old Lady (from Pasadena),” “Anaheim, Azusa,” “Sidewalk Surfin’,” “Hey Little Freshman,” and “Freeway Flyer.”


Sweet - thanks for that quick and informative response. Sounds like Sloan was well within his rights to note his contributions.

I corresponded a lot with Sloan over the years. He was always good to me. His contributions to Jan & Dean are indelible. But in terms of bragging, he went too far in his memoir. For example, he claimed that Dean never sang falsetto again after Sloan did, and that simply was not true.

I'm not sure why Sloan felt the need to inflate and embellish his accomplishments, but I strongly suspect it was rooted in his bitter conflict with Lou Adler.



That’s fair. I sensed a bit of that in some of the stories He’s told (the phone call from Brian Wilson to ask for advice on “Dont Worry Baby”, etc). He was a true original and I suspect maybe it was due to him getting slighted over the years. Also I think some of these guys believe their stories over time.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2020, 01:04:29 AM »

Also, who played Bellzouki on Anaheim?

Looking at the session contract, we can narrow it down.

Bass — Jimmy Bond, Lyle Ritz

Keyboards — Leon Russell (tack piano, and later harpsichord)

Drums — Earl Palmer, Hal Blaine (playing in tandem, in unison)

Guitars — Glen Campbell, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, Bill Pitman


Looking at the guitar players . . .

Bill Pitman played Dano . . . reading Guitar III.

Glen Campbell could not read music, so he likely played chords, looking at Guitar I . . . That's not to say Campbell could not rip a lead solo with the best of them. He could. But these parts were specific.

That leaves Billy Strange and Tommy Tedesco. It's been a while since I listened to the session tape, but both of these guys were capable of doing it. It was one of these two, reading Guitar II. And the one who did not play Bellzouki would have read from either Guitar I or Guitar !!, as both charts had the chord progressions.

Great, thank you.  It's really helpful to get outside the Brian Wilson session routine.  It's also extraordinarily useful that you have the parts and the scores for this stuff.  Wish Brian used a copyist and kept his charts...

Mark (or anybody else), have you ever heard of any other caches of preserved scores, charts, and parts from the LA pop music scene?  That kind of thing would be...of inestimable value to my research.

I’m not a Beach Boys expert, but I’m not sure the kinds of music scores and charts Jan created existed for the Beach Boys. It wasn’t just a matter of having a copyist.

In Jan’s case, he wrote the music scores himself—a large master document featuring bar-by-bar chords and parts for all instruments, stacked on top of one another. And then a copyist would take that score, and all of its instructions, and generate the individual charts for the musicians.

Sometimes Jan hired the best copyists in the Hollywood studio system, but sometimes he served as his own copyist. And when he did the latter, he got paid for it through the union. Just as he was paid separately though the union for his music arrangements alone (notes on paper).

And not everything was specific. The musicians often added their own tweaks just from the chord progressions.

Obviously, if a Beach Boys session featured, strings, etc., there were charts for those. But who created them, and what was the source? String parts were three-fold: violin, viola, and cello. Who conceived the individual lines and wrote them out?

I would love to learn more about Brian Wilson’s dynamic with the Wrecking Crew, beyond chord charts. For example, how much did he dictate to the musicians in terms of specific parts, and how much came from the musicians themselves?

I’ve heard the session tape of the opening to “California Girls” (for example). What are the musicians looking at during that opening?

Endlessly fascinating.
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« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2020, 05:23:31 AM »

Well, in the case of rhythm section type players and horns, Brian literally sang them their part and they took dictation onto a piece of staff paper.  There are conflicting reports about Brian ever providing his own charts.  These reports range from "he never did" to "he did but they were pretty bad and we had to fix them to make them readable."

As for strings, we are conjecturing that Brian either had a ghost arranger for some of the earlier sessions, or a lot of help--and eventually may have done the same thing here he'd sing the parts to Sid Sharp and he would make up parts for the string players.  Sharpe never got a copyist payout from the union though.

But in any case, it seems likely that people just wadded up their rough charts at the end of a session and chucked 'em.
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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2020, 05:38:02 AM »

Here's a good quote from Tommy Morgan on how precisely Brian would dictate parts, the rigidity of his arrangements is a quirk that isn't often mentioned:

"Basically, there were no charts. He had everything in his head, knew what he wanted, so you would wait until he got to you, wait until Brian came around. I was generally added later, after drums, bass, guitars and piano, so sometimes, a couple of hours would pass if you were the last guy in line. He was very focused. When he gave you a pattern, it pretty much stayed the same throughout the different verses or choruses. You didn't say 'Brian, do you want me to build this?' On other dates, you might do three figures the same time in a piece. The second time you would add things. Not with Brian. You didn't play variations. He established every pattern and note he wanted you to play. We were playing rhythm, and he put his variations in the background vocals."

And here's Sid Sharp on dishing out string parts:

"In those days, in most cases, you went to a session and the charts were already prepared and the arranger and composer would make changes during the session. Sometimes, Brian would come in with music or chord charts, but for the most part, even if he did, he would change those. Most of the time, there would be no music, nothing written. He would bring in blank music paper and sing the parts to me and to Jesse Ehrlich who was my first cellist. We used to write it down and then pass out the parts. He had preconceived ideas of what he wanted. Usually, he would sing the parts. He would sing one string line, then another, until he would have a four-part harmony - two violin parts, then the viola and the cello."

Brian treated strings very similarly to vocals. If he could deconstruct Four Freshman harmonies as a teenager, I don't think he'd have had much trouble with his earliest string arrangements in 1964-65.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 05:47:59 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2020, 06:00:22 AM »

Here's a good quote from Tommy Morgan on how precisely Brian would dictate parts, the rigidity of his arrangements is a quirk that isn't often mentioned:

"Basically, there were no charts. He had everything in his head, knew what he wanted, so you would wait until he got to you, wait until Brian came around. I was generally added later, after drums, bass, guitars and piano, so sometimes, a couple of hours would pass if you were the last guy in line. He was very focused. When he gave you a pattern, it pretty much stayed the same throughout the different verses or choruses. You didn't say 'Brian, do you want me to build this?' On other dates, you might do three figures the same time in a piece. The second time you would add things. Not with Brian. You didn't play variations. He established every pattern and note he wanted you to play. We were playing rhythm, and he put his variations in the background vocals."

And here's Sid Sharp on dishing out string parts:

"In those days, in most cases, you went to a session and the charts were already prepared and the arranger and composer would make changes during the session. Sometimes, Brian would come in with music or chord charts, but for the most part, even if he did, he would change those. Most of the time, there would be no music, nothing written. He would bring in blank music paper and sing the parts to me and to Jesse Ehrlich who was my first cellist. We used to write it down and then pass out the parts. He had preconceived ideas of what he wanted. Usually, he would sing the parts. He would sing one string line, then another, until he would have a four-part harmony - two violin parts, then the viola and the cello."

Brian treated strings very similarly to vocals. If he could deconstruct Four Freshman harmonies as a teenager, I don't think he'd have had much trouble with his earliest string arrangements in 1964-65.

The notes, no, no problem -- I'm just thinking that, since Brian didn't have as much access to being around orchestral strings as he did other instruments, he may have needed some guidance as to the actual capabilities and ranges of stringed instruments.  A guitar, he was around those all the time.  Drums, he could have Hal show him, or ask Steve Douglas about a wind part.  But at some point Brian had to learn that a cello goes down to C2, a viola to C3, and that a violin in fact overlaps with these other instruments but they all have their own characteristic.

But to be fair, it's not like any of Brian's string writing is especially idiomatic or exciting.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2020, 06:51:03 AM »

Mark - another question while you are here:

Any indication from the contracts who played harmonica on Little Old Lady?  Believe it or not, it's pretty important information to me!
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« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2020, 06:57:55 AM »

Mark - another question while you are here:

Any indication from the contracts who played harmonica on Little Old Lady?  Believe it or not, it's pretty important information to me!

The assumption is Tommy Morgan but I've never seen it officially documented.
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Mark A. Moore
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« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2020, 07:02:28 AM »

Mark - another question while you are here:

Any indication from the contracts who played harmonica on Little Old Lady?  Believe it or not, it's pretty important information to me!

The assumption is Tommy Morgan but I've never seen it officially documented.

Yeah, I've never seen it documented, but some of the musicians remember it being Tommy. I can document him playing on the instrumental "Skateboarding."
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2020, 08:06:39 AM »

Is it possible the harmonica solo there is two harmonica players (or one overdubbed?). There's a spot at the end of the phrases where it sounds like one of the harmonicas is not quite bending to the same pitch as the other one -- Maybe Tommy (a chromatic player) and somebody else playing diatonic doubled the line???

I've been transcribing Help Me Ronda, which has me thinking hard about harmonicas, which is why I'm so interested in this at the moment.

Mark, does a written part exist for the harmonica solo?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 08:07:27 AM by aeijtzsche » Logged
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« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2020, 09:31:53 AM »

Also, who played Bellzouki on Anaheim?

Looking at the session contract, we can narrow it down.

Bass — Jimmy Bond, Lyle Ritz

Keyboards — Leon Russell (tack piano, and later harpsichord)

Drums — Earl Palmer, Hal Blaine (playing in tandem, in unison)

Guitars — Glen Campbell, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, Bill Pitman


Looking at the guitar players . . .

Bill Pitman played Dano . . . reading Guitar III.

Glen Campbell could not read music, so he likely played chords, looking at Guitar I . . . That's not to say Campbell could not rip a lead solo with the best of them. He could. But these parts were specific.

That leaves Billy Strange and Tommy Tedesco. It's been a while since I listened to the session tape, but both of these guys were capable of doing it. It was one of these two, reading Guitar II. And the one who did not play Bellzouki would have read from either Guitar I or Guitar !!, as both charts had the chord progressions.


Just adding a bit onto this regarding Glen and what he played in general, it ties in to the description of this session for a lot of what Glen played overall in the 60's.

Glen could read the basics, it's not that he was musically illiterate as some descriptions from the past may lead non-musicians to believe, but his skill was not reading notes on the staff. Amazingly a lot of well-known session guitarists self-admit that reading traditional notation for guitar was their weakness, while other guys were specialists at it.

Glen had the innate ability to come up with a hook or a key riff in his head and deliver it on the spot during a session. That was his calling card, and besides having an amazing touch and feel for the guitar, that was why he was so in demand. A lot of the hooks and solos he played were not written or created before he sat down at the session to play the song, and a lot of them could not have been written by a traditional arranger unless it was a skeleton of an idea that Glen would flesh out.

The more I read and heard his fellow players talk about what Glen could do, the more respect I had for him. I think it was Jimmy Bond who said "Glen could do things no one else could do", and that about summed it up.

So Glen would and could read a chord or form chart, with appropriate rhythmic "hits" and rests the whole band would need to hit together, and if needed he would add solo fills or add a hook even, besides playing the chords. And if it were a specific part, all Glen would need to do is hear it, and he'd be able to play it without having to read ledger lines and all that b.s. lol

The way Jan had the guitars organized above is pretty much how those guys did sessions across the board. Players like Tommy, Bob Bain, Neil LeVang Billy Pitman, Carol Kaye, etc were "readers" for specific parts...which is why they also got very busy working in the film industry which was mostly reading specific notation. The other group was the musicians who played more by ear...who knew the theory and all the chords, but whose strengths were more creating and developing parts on the fly versus specifically notated parts.

Glen was the guy who could read through charts but not read what they called "fly sh*t" back in the day. I know some other guitarists would get calls for a date, and depending on who the arranger or composer was booking the date, they'd say if it's a date reading "fly sh*t", call Tommy.  Grin  So Glen and the others were all called to fill specific roles, in the case of Jan who notated everything he needed a "reader" like Tommy and he also needed a guy like Glen who could add a hot lick or fill or solo if needed...parts that the arrangers/composers themselves perhaps could not have envisioned or written.

And Glen had his magical capo too...which allowed him to do things no one else was doing.  Smiley


One studio story which I'm sure Mark has heard, as told by Glen, and worth repeating. I think it's even on video somewhere. Paraphrased:

Glen and Tommy were doing a Jan Berry date. Jan walked around placing all the musicians' parts on the music stands. They go to run down the song, and Tommy starts playing this awful sounding part, totally wrong in the song. Jan comes over and asks what's wrong, Tommy says to Jan: I played exactly what you gave me. Jan looks at the chart on the stand...and sees he had put Tommy's chart on the stand upside down. And Tommy played it anyway, backwards and upside down! Glen eventually asked Tommy if what he just did was all bullshit, reading and playing the part upside down. Tommy then proceeded to repeat exactly what he did with the chart upside down, the same way he had played it the first time as part of his joke on Jan.

Now that's *scary*.... LOL
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 09:32:58 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2020, 12:45:50 PM »

Is it possible the harmonica solo there is two harmonica players (or one overdubbed?). There's a spot at the end of the phrases where it sounds like one of the harmonicas is not quite bending to the same pitch as the other one -- Maybe Tommy (a chromatic player) and somebody else playing diatonic doubled the line???

I've been transcribing Help Me Ronda, which has me thinking hard about harmonicas, which is why I'm so interested in this at the moment.

Mark, does a written part exist for the harmonica solo?

For the studio version, the harmonica part is not in the score or charts. There was originally another vocal verse there, instead of an instrumental break. That alternate version still exists, and then Jan changed it to the harmonica break.

In their live version, the Beach Boys did the extra verse.

If there was ever a chart for the harmonica parts, I’ve never seen it. Could have been lost or stolen, if it ever existed. It’s possible the parts could have been doubled.

The horn parts for the studio version are tenor sax, trumpet, flugelhorn, and French horn.

In Jan’s arrangement for the live version, the instrumental break is played by horns.
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« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2020, 12:46:38 PM »

Also, who played Bellzouki on Anaheim?

Looking at the session contract, we can narrow it down.

Bass — Jimmy Bond, Lyle Ritz

Keyboards — Leon Russell (tack piano, and later harpsichord)

Drums — Earl Palmer, Hal Blaine (playing in tandem, in unison)

Guitars — Glen Campbell, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, Bill Pitman


Looking at the guitar players . . .

Bill Pitman played Dano . . . reading Guitar III.

Glen Campbell could not read music, so he likely played chords, looking at Guitar I . . . That's not to say Campbell could not rip a lead solo with the best of them. He could. But these parts were specific.

That leaves Billy Strange and Tommy Tedesco. It's been a while since I listened to the session tape, but both of these guys were capable of doing it. It was one of these two, reading Guitar II. And the one who did not play Bellzouki would have read from either Guitar I or Guitar !!, as both charts had the chord progressions.


Just adding a bit onto this regarding Glen and what he played in general, it ties in to the description of this session for a lot of what Glen played overall in the 60's.

Glen could read the basics, it's not that he was musically illiterate as some descriptions from the past may lead non-musicians to believe, but his skill was not reading notes on the staff. Amazingly a lot of well-known session guitarists self-admit that reading traditional notation for guitar was their weakness, while other guys were specialists at it.

Glen had the innate ability to come up with a hook or a key riff in his head and deliver it on the spot during a session. That was his calling card, and besides having an amazing touch and feel for the guitar, that was why he was so in demand. A lot of the hooks and solos he played were not written or created before he sat down at the session to play the song, and a lot of them could not have been written by a traditional arranger unless it was a skeleton of an idea that Glen would flesh out.

The more I read and heard his fellow players talk about what Glen could do, the more respect I had for him. I think it was Jimmy Bond who said "Glen could do things no one else could do", and that about summed it up.

So Glen would and could read a chord or form chart, with appropriate rhythmic "hits" and rests the whole band would need to hit together, and if needed he would add solo fills or add a hook even, besides playing the chords. And if it were a specific part, all Glen would need to do is hear it, and he'd be able to play it without having to read ledger lines and all that b.s. lol

The way Jan had the guitars organized above is pretty much how those guys did sessions across the board. Players like Tommy, Bob Bain, Neil LeVang Billy Pitman, Carol Kaye, etc were "readers" for specific parts...which is why they also got very busy working in the film industry which was mostly reading specific notation. The other group was the musicians who played more by ear...who knew the theory and all the chords, but whose strengths were more creating and developing parts on the fly versus specifically notated parts.

Glen was the guy who could read through charts but not read what they called "fly sh*t" back in the day. I know some other guitarists would get calls for a date, and depending on who the arranger or composer was booking the date, they'd say if it's a date reading "fly sh*t", call Tommy.  Grin  So Glen and the others were all called to fill specific roles, in the case of Jan who notated everything he needed a "reader" like Tommy and he also needed a guy like Glen who could add a hot lick or fill or solo if needed...parts that the arrangers/composers themselves perhaps could not have envisioned or written.

And Glen had his magical capo too...which allowed him to do things no one else was doing.  Smiley


One studio story which I'm sure Mark has heard, as told by Glen, and worth repeating. I think it's even on video somewhere. Paraphrased:

Glen and Tommy were doing a Jan Berry date. Jan walked around placing all the musicians' parts on the music stands. They go to run down the song, and Tommy starts playing this awful sounding part, totally wrong in the song. Jan comes over and asks what's wrong, Tommy says to Jan: I played exactly what you gave me. Jan looks at the chart on the stand...and sees he had put Tommy's chart on the stand upside down. And Tommy played it anyway, backwards and upside down! Glen eventually asked Tommy if what he just did was all bullshit, reading and playing the part upside down. Tommy then proceeded to repeat exactly what he did with the chart upside down, the same way he had played it the first time as part of his joke on Jan.

Now that's *scary*.... LOL

Glen was a great guitarist. No doubt about it.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2020, 01:00:39 PM »

In case anybody needed reminding:

Glen at his best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqN4zgqf78
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