When did Mike realize "he" could be The BBs...

[guitarfool2002]

I'd really like to hear more about the dissolution of Mike and Al's friendship/partnership beginning in the 80's, with the Goldmine interview, as well as the 1977 tarmac incident. Never heard of that before.

My original meaning for the thread wasn't to once again get into the legal aspects (thought I do love that stuff), but to tap into the emotional side of things ie:

When did Mike no longer want to tour with his bandmates, and in particular his relationship with Al... the human, emotional side of the events, which of course can only be speculatory.

I think it's important to look as much as possible at what information is already on the record. In the case of Al Jardine and the issues with Mike and the naming license, the only info posted was taken from a blurb in Mike's book. In reality the case went on for roughly 10 years in and out of the courts, and with several related issues beyond the name itself. It's important to know and weigh all of those facets, and not reduce it to a blurb or talking point like "Al tried to use the name 'Beach Boys' to book his band and Mike stopped it" or versions thereof when there was a lot more involved. And it was not that simple.

The part of Mike's later case against Al - where he tried to recoup over 2 million in legal fees plus an additional million that Mike claimed Al earned touring by disparagingly using *Mike's* 'Beach Boys' name - is just one example of why a lot of people don't think Mike's actions are above board and criticize the guy on a lot of this stuff. The later lawsuit Mike filed (and lost) against Brian over the free giveaway CD dragged Al into it and all but slandered him in a court filing when Al wasn't even involved nor was he named in the suit! That's just pure spite, right there. But anyway...


Here is Al Jardine in his own words from the interviews mentioned, done at the time Al was with the "Family And Friends" band. Al goes into detail on how and why he split from Mike, the issues he had with Mike's direction for the touring band versus his own, and other issues.

Essential reading. 

Then afterward, I'll post an interview with Bruce taken from when Al was blocked from using the BB name to bill the group, so he became "Al Jardine Family & Friends".

Goldmine magazine interview with Al, July 28, 2000:

http://troun.tripod.com/al.html


Bam magazine interview with Al, December 18, 1998 (lot of typos in this transcription)

http://www.angelfire.com/la/Beachboysbritain/alint.html


Nate, this is exactly the kind of material it sounds like you're looking for.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Fast forward to March 2008 when one of these suits specific to Al and Mike and centered more on financial issues than the use of the trademark name was finally settled. And the details of that settlement were confidential, but the reports state both parties were happy with the outcome.

Since the details were sealed, draw your own conclusions on the settlement details and who got what, but these reports say both parties left the court's negotiation table happy.

Link: https://www.tmz.com/2008/03/20/beach-boys-wouldnt-it-be-nice-to-settle-lawsuit/

Excerpt:
<<<<<<
Beach Boys -- Wouldn't It Be Nice to Settle Lawsuit

3/20/2008 2:14 PM PT

Beach Boy Mike Love and former bandmate Al Jardine have finally settled a lawsuit over a feud over the band's name.

The case, we've learned, mainly centered around Love's request for roughly $2.2 million in attorney's fees spent in previous litigation against Jardine.

Love sued Jardine in April 2003 after he toured with groups under the names "Beach Boys Family & Friends," "Al Jardine, Beach Boy" and "Al Jardine of the Beach Boys." A federal judge ruled that Jardine could not use any reference to "Beach Boys" as it violated copyright laws. According to the suit, Love is the only person who may perform under the name "Beach Boys."

An attorney for the Carl Wilson Trust says the terms of the settlement are confidential, but that both Love and Jardine were pleased with the outcome.

>>>>>>

Link: https://www.mercurynews.com/2008/03/23/beach-boys-lawsuit-settled/

Excerpt:

<<<<<<


Beach Boys lawsuit settled

By Associated Press |
March 23, 2008 at 9:50 p.m.

Two former members of the Beach Boys settled a five-year legal dispute over use of the band’s name, a lawyer said.

Al Jardine and Mike Love (neither exactly considered the creative nexus of the band) reached an agreement after a two-day conference in Superior Court, attorney Lawrence Noble, who represents Jardine, said Thursday. Details of the settlement were not disclosed.

“Mr. Jardine feels very happy and feels that this is a friendly settlement that allows them to focus on the talent and future of this American iconic band,” Noble said without a trace of irony.

Love sued Jardine in 2003, claiming he fronted a group that used various versions of the Beach Boys name. The lawsuit said Love was the sole licensee to perform under the name, and that Jardine was denied use because he did not agree to abide by terms of a proposed license.

Love was seeking $2 million in court costs and $1 million he said Jardine collected from using the name.

A judge ruled in January that the case could go to trial. It was set to begin April 14.

The Beach Boys were founded in 1961 by brothers Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson, their cousin Love and Brian Wilson’s friend Jardine.

Dennis Wilson died in 1983 and Carl Wilson died in 1998.


>>>>>>

COMMENT:

This account by guitarfool2002 is exactly correct;  Here's the back story ...

You all are better at dates than I am, but at some point in time, Alan Jardine wished to and did in fact, form a band that would present Beach Boy music to the public and tour. It was called "Beach Boy Family and Friends". He ask me if I would mix for them on the road, which I did for a while.

At the same time, or soon thereafter, Mike and Bruce were traveling around the circuit presenting themselves as "The Beach Boys". Both entertainment groups were getting good bookings and pulling in large crowds, until Las Vegas.

Through nobody's fault, and completely by serendipity, both acts found themselves both booked, by separate and independent promoters, booked into two of the main-stream hotel venues on the Las Vegas strip. You could drive along the main drag in that city and within blocks of each hotel a nightclub marquee was saying that some form of "Beach Boys" was playing in their theater. I was there, I saw it.

In the public's eye there is only one Beach Boy act or group or illegally "brand" known by that name. And so, each of the promoters had thought they had booked the one and only Beach Boy group to promote and make money from their concert experience.  But it was painfully obvious by just driving down the Las Vegas strip that something was very wrong. Confusion abounded. The promoters were pissed. And, it became evident that it could not continue.

Now to understand why this went to court you must know that according to contractual agreements within The Beach Boy Corporation, which consisted of Brian, Carl, Mike, Dennis, and Alan'; each member had the "rights" to using the name The Beach Boys. At the time this years-old contract was drawn, I don't think it was the thought that the group would ever split into various units. So legally both Michael and Alan were within their rights to use the brand name.

But it was not practical.

Alan was first to use the name in an act, but Mike felt as a founding member he was to have the right. Clearly, if anyone was going to tour an agreement had to be reached. But, as usual, neither party would give ... hence in went to litigation.

In court, Michael prevailed and Alan's group soon disbanded.  Meanwhile, Brian continued to tour using his own name recognition as his "brand" and did quite well, as we all know. Mike and Bruce continue to use the brand, and Alan is now traveling with his son, Matt.  All of these acts present a value to the public and bring in respectable crowds.  And then came the virus ............

Hope that helps,   ~Stephen W. Desper

[NateRuvin]

Mr. Desper,

Your comments are invaluable. Your post made things quite clear. Thank you for taking the time to share such great details with us fans.

[Summer_Days]

I’ve said it before but will say it again. As much as I love their music, I have no interest in meeting them. 

I would. Well, Brian anyway. Would Carl and Dennis were still around.

[All Summer Long]

Mr. Desper,

Your comments are invaluable. Your post made things quite clear. Thank you for taking the time to share such great details with us fans.

Agreed, thank you Mr. Desper.

I’ve said it before but will say it again. As much as I love their music, I have no interest in meeting them. 

I would. Well, Brian anyway. Would Carl and Dennis were still around.

Also agreed. I’d also like to meet David Marks and Al, regardless of my past run-in with Al.

[juggler]

Goldmine magazine interview with Al, July 28, 2000:

http://troun.tripod.com/al.html

Hey, thanks for posting that.  Very interesting.
The most startling thing that Al says in that interview is:

Mike Love: Corporate genius. Never got to know the guy. I still don't know who he is. I think Mike is different things to different people. I just don't know the guy.

From 1961-1998, with each other on the road, on stage and in the studio dozens of times per year, sometimes 100s of times per year... and "I just don't know the guy."  Wow.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

Met them all several times, especially Carl, Brian and Al. Dennis and Mike a couple of times each. Carl, Brian, Al and Dennis were quite engaging and actually got to have  what I would call real conversations. Meeting Mike was a different experience which helped mold my initial dislike for him. I could feel a definitely cold chill emanating from him like "who in the hell are you?" type of thing. No smile, very few words and caught him looking me over and never really opening up. I can somewhat identify what Al was saying when stating that he never really knew Mike Love. Of course now, he's the most polarizing figures the world of music has ever witnessed. And by the way, No one could be further away from being the " Beach Boys" than Mike Love is. Anyone with half a brain should realize that The Beach Boys were OVER with the unfortunate passing of Carl and Dennis. Brian and Al have totally moved on beyond what used to be leaving Mike Love in the dusty old past with his travelling jukebox. Have fun sitting at home Mike and hope it drives you crazy not being on the road.

[CenturyDeprived]

One thing seems certain.

Al Jardine is a forgiving mensch. As is Brian Wilson.

Both of them were slandered vindictively out of what would seem like spite in a courtroom. Or in lawsuits. And both of them chose to be the bigger person, put that aside, and work with Mike again. Al even came to the ELLA awards in honor of Mike. I can't begin to understand the complexities of their relationship.

So I give Al and Brian a heck of a lot of credit for that. I'm not sure Mike would've done the same thing if either of those guys had sued him with such reckless abandon, 2005 style. I think that would've been the end of their relationship for good.

[Lonely Summer]

Interesting that Al mentions in that Goldmine interview that he wanted to do a symphonic tour, but Mike said "only if Brian is there", but Al says Brian is not cut out for that kind of work, he's not wired that way.

Boy, things sure have changed since 1998. 

[Summer_Days]

Met them all several times, especially Carl, Brian and Al. Dennis and Mike a couple of times each. Carl, Brian, Al and Dennis were quite engaging and actually got to have  what I would call real conversations. Meeting Mike was a different experience which helped mold my initial dislike for him. I could feel a definitely cold chill emanating from him like "who in the hell are you?" type of thing. No smile, very few words and caught him looking me over and never really opening up. I can somewhat identify what Al was saying when stating that he never really knew Mike Love. Of course now, he's the most polarizing figures the world of music has ever witnessed. And by the way, No one could be further away from being the " Beach Boys" than Mike Love is. Anyone with half a brain should realize that The Beach Boys were OVER with the unfortunate passing of Carl and Dennis. Brian and Al have totally moved on beyond what used to be leaving Mike Love in the dusty old past with his travelling jukebox. Have fun sitting at home Mike and hope it drives you crazy not being on the road.

Your description of the time you met Mike seems to jive with what I always figured it would be like meeting him. It kinda seems like he views meeting every serious Beach Boys fan as a red alert, shields up kind of situation. But maybe I’m wrong. I’ve never met the guy.

I don’t know why I didn’t mention Al before, I’d like to meet him too. Same with David. Seem like nice guys. My bad. Some might say I’m crazy because I’m such a big fan but I have no interest in meeting Mike or Bruce. I’m beyond thankful for their contributions to the band but Mike seems consistent in his disdain and Bruce is unpredictable. I have nothing to really say to them and they wouldn’t have much of anything to say to me.

[Robbie Mac]

Also, in his book, Mike does offer some insights into why he and Al were ready for a "divorce" in 1998.  He mentions a dispute over a "symphonic tour" in the wake of Carl's death (which, according to Mike, Al wanted to do while Mike didn't).  A few pages earlier, Mike also mentions a verbal dispute between Al and Jackie Love about one of the mid-90s "dancers" who had also been acting as the Jardines' nanny.  Mike describes an ugly argument which ended with Jackie threatening Al with a clothes iron from her luggage (only to be restrained by Carl).

What the hell?

Here you go, straight from the book:

But in one instance, we were including professional dancers in the show, with Jacquelyne working as the producer.
The band was in Atlanta, and after a long day of rehearsal with the dancers, Al approached Jacquelyne and began chastising her.
Al was angry because a dancer who'd been released was also working as Al's nanny, and now Al would have to pay her travel
expenses if she continued to work in that capacity.
I had to leave early that day, and the hostilities continued. Jacquelyne, who also had little Brian nearby crying and with our
nanny visibly upset, had had enough. She reached into a wardrobe case, pulled out an iron, and swung back to clobber Al.
Carl grabbed her. "You don't want to do that," he said.
"Yes, I do."
"No, you don't."
Jacquelyne put down the iron, and Carl turned to Al and said, "Shame on you." (Al called Jacquelyne that night and
apologized.)

Carl really was the peacemaker.

[Emdeeh]

I don’t know why I didn’t mention Al before, I’d like to meet him too. Same with David. Seem like nice guys.

They are both nice guys. Al is warm and genuine. David has a great sense of humor -- would love it if someone found some lost film footage of him, Carl, and Dennis goofing off together.

[Pretty Funky]

I’ve said it before but will say it again. As much as I love their music, I have no interest in meeting them. 

I would. Well, Brian anyway. Would Carl and Dennis were still around.

Perhaps I should clarify. Through my employment I have been in contact with some very famous people ‘off the clock’ so to speak and in some cases have been disappointed with their attitude and behaviour. That’s been ok because in most I never had an opinion of them one way or another. With ‘The Beach Boys’ I would be gutted to have a bad interaction. I’ve read enough posts over the years about various members off days and have in fact met some inner circle who left me underwhelmed. I’m leaving it at that.

[Summer_Days]

@Pretty Funky, that’s definitely understandable. I suppose that’s part of the reason why I don’t want to meet Mike or Bruce. It’s already too much to deal with their quirks from afar, seeing their attitudes close up is another thing altogether. Whereas with Brian, it’s hard to find a quirkier individual than him. Plus I love the guy and to be able to nervously attempt to ever put into words just how much his music means to me directly to him is the main reason why I’d love to meet him. There’s always the danger of your idols letting you down when you meet them, which is why people often say you shouldn’t idolize someone too much or have too high expectations but I can’t help it, it’s Brian Wilson. But I think I’d be more accepting of having a bumpier encounter with him because of all he’s been through, the fact that we’re lucky he’s here at all and that he’s happy.