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Author Topic: Keyboards in 'California Girls'  (Read 2604 times)
PickupExcitations
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« on: March 29, 2020, 11:07:55 PM »

I'm very curious about the keyboard instrument in 'California Girls'. Check out Wikipedia, there were a piano and a Hammond B-3 organ (keyboards) in the personnel list, but in my opinion, the timbre resembled neither one, how could a Hammond make the sound like that?
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SBonilla
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 05:36:07 AM »

I'm very curious about the keyboard instrument in 'California Girls'. Check out Wikipedia, there were a piano and a Hammond B-3 organ (keyboards) in the personnel list, but in my opinion, the timbre resembled neither one, how could a Hammond make the sound like that?

I owned Brian's M3 that he had given to Earle Mankey. It got that sound.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 05:58:48 AM »

It's absolutely a Hammond organ.  I'm not certain that we've ever confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt what Western owned, but it's absolutely a drawbar organ by Hammond.  Quintessential hammond sound.
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PickupExcitations
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 07:05:40 AM »

It's absolutely a Hammond organ.  I'm not certain that we've ever confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt what Western owned, but it's absolutely a drawbar organ by Hammond.  Quintessential hammond sound.

Sorry, not that professional. In my impression, a Hammond organ was always sounded like 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' or 'Green Onions'.
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c-man
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 07:12:42 AM »

It's absolutely a Hammond organ.  I'm not certain that we've ever confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt what Western owned, but it's absolutely a drawbar organ by Hammond.  Quintessential hammond sound.

Sorry, not that professional. In my impression, a Hammond organ was always sounded like 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' or 'Green Onions'.

A Hammond is capable of many different sounds, depending on which "stops" (actually drawbars) are selected.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 08:43:46 AM »

It's absolutely a Hammond organ.  I'm not certain that we've ever confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt what Western owned, but it's absolutely a drawbar organ by Hammond.  Quintessential hammond sound.

Sorry, not that professional. In my impression, a Hammond organ was always sounded like 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' or 'Green Onions'.

No need to be sorry.

The Whiter Shade of Pale organ was likely a Hammond M102, which shares most of the characteristics of the B series instruments.  Drawbar organs are indeed remarkably versatile; essentially using additive synthesis to create a rewardingly spicy variety of unique timbres.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 08:49:08 AM »

And incidentally, the piano on California Girls is there, much like Help Me Rhonda or You Still Believe in Me, only as a bass-line instrument.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 09:57:58 AM »

I'm very curious about the keyboard instrument in 'California Girls'. Check out Wikipedia, there were a piano and a Hammond B-3 organ (keyboards) in the personnel list, but in my opinion, the timbre resembled neither one, how could a Hammond make the sound like that?

I owned Brian's M3 that he had given to Earle Mankey. It got that sound.

That is fantastic! Talk about an instrument having Mojo!

The M3 was the one musicians on a budget could pick up for years (before the internet) for a few hundred bucks if they scoured the classifieds. My first week living in Boston I saw a really nice black M3 in a music store for I think it was 400 bucks, and this was 28 years ago. The M3 being a tonewheel organ that you could also connect with a Leslie was less of a beast to deal with than the B3 or C3, and a lot of musicians had them. I almost bought it. Kind of glad I didn't. My roommate ended up getting a portable Hammond road keyboard and Leslie road setup modified by Al Goff that same year anyway, so we were covered lol. Once the internet caught fire, the prices went up a bit...

Tom Scholz recorded most if not all of that amazing first Boston album with an M3 in his basement. For rock Hammond sounds, that Boston LP is one of the finest to hear a Hammond in full flight in a rock context.

The key was that the M3 was a mechanical tonewheel Hammond - Not so much the drawbars. And yes, the wide range of tones you could get out of those tonewheel Hammonds paired with a Leslie was pretty vast. Everything sonically from Jimmy Smith to Lawrence Welk to "Hush" by Deep Purple to "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" by the Casinos to "Green Onions" to California Girls....
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
c-man
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 11:09:48 AM »

So do we think Western had a B3 or an M3? From what you say, it seems like your typical neighborhood rock musician might be able to afford an M3 but not a B3, however I would think a commercial studio like Western would be more likely to have a B3 in each recording room, along with a grand piano and an upright (and eventually an upright fitted with tacks). Is there any photographic evidence from the day?
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 11:53:28 AM »

I can't imagine it being anything other than B-3 or a C-3.  B and C -2 models were discontinued in the 50s, I think.  The L and M style cabinets were around too, but lacked the comprehensive tone-shaping possibilities of the B or C.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 01:25:35 PM »

That is an interesting question - I'd say a studio in LA in the 60's would be most likely to have a B3 available in-house. The C3 is essentially the same guts and features as a B3, but with much more cabinet design and thus more weight. I always took the C in C3 as "church", whether that's actually what players did or not lol. The ornate and heavier cabinet design was for more permanent installations, like churches, theaters, banquet halls, etc. That's the only way to tell them apart - The B3 has legs like a table, the C3 has an enclosed wooden cabinet around it. But the difference in weight and even portability is significant.

The studio I knew that had a C3 had it resting on wheels, like two large moving dollies, where they could wheel it around if necessary. But there was no reason why they had a C versus a B other than maybe they got a good deal on it lol. It was white, which many of the church installed models were I think.

But they are exactly the same in features and sound, you cannot hear a difference.

Another reason why a studio *might* have invested in a B3 or C3 versus an M3 is the bass pedals. The B and C had a full set of pedals on the floor, while the M only had a limited range in the bass pedals. Going outside the rock and pop sessions, these studios would need those pedals for traditional organ recordings, or sacred recordings where the organist played the pedals too. And...jazz organ, which was *huge* in the late 50's and 60's. Most of those jazz organ combos didn't have a bass player, as the organist covered it with the pedals.

Photo evidence is the best in this case lol, to determine who may have had what models of Hammonds. If any such evidence exists.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
WillJC
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2020, 01:51:12 PM »

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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 02:35:49 PM »

I thiiiiink that might be a C-3....
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 12:36:01 PM »





Definitely, 100% a C3 in use by a *very* young looking Mike Melvoin! The giveaway for future reference is the cabinet, the C3 was more angular while the B3 cabinet had more of a curved cut to it. You can see Melvoin resting his left hand on the dead-giveaway cabinet design. Otherwise the B3 and C3 are more or less the same "guts" and features - and sound the same.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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