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Author Topic: Do You Wanna Dance - Guitar Production Video  (Read 1932 times)
aeijtzsche
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« on: March 25, 2020, 01:44:37 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI5i8beBkg&feature=youtu.be

Hello Friends.  A little something to distract you from the chaos out there.  In this video, you'll learn how Brian arranged 7 guitars plus 2 Fender basses to create a powerful, driving track unlike anything he'd done for the Beach Boys before.  As usual, I've created an hyper-accurate re-recording of the original backing track to effect a "fantasy multi-track" that we can use to learn about Brian's productions.  This one was so accurate that YouTube thought it was the original recording!!!


I really hope it helps you think about something other than the pandy.
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2020, 02:13:48 PM »

Wonderful analysis! Was a joy to watch
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 06:25:23 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI5i8beBkg&feature=youtu.be

Hello Friends.  A little something to distract you from the chaos out there.  In this video, you'll learn how Brian arranged 7 guitars plus 2 Fender basses to create a powerful, driving track unlike anything he'd done for the Beach Boys before.  As usual, I've created an hyper-accurate re-recording of the original backing track to effect a "fantasy multi-track" that we can use to learn about Brian's productions.  This one was so accurate that YouTube thought it was the original recording!!!


I really hope it helps you think about something other than the pandy.
amazing video! thanks for making this kind of videos!!!
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 10:52:17 PM »

Fabulously done. Iíd be excited to see any and all production breakdowns like this. Today and Summer Days have a super special place in my heart. Now letís get that guitar solo in there for completionism! Heh
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JK
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2020, 03:01:02 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI5i8beBkg&feature=youtu.be

Hello Friends.  A little something to distract you from the chaos out there.  In this video, you'll learn how Brian arranged 7 guitars plus 2 Fender basses to create a powerful, driving track unlike anything he'd done for the Beach Boys before.  As usual, I've created an hyper-accurate re-recording of the original backing track to effect a "fantasy multi-track" that we can use to learn about Brian's productions.  This one was so accurate that YouTube thought it was the original recording!!!

That last remark doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It really does sound super! Only a mind as enquiring and meticulous as yours could dissect and rebuild this wondrous backing track for our enlightenment. Once again youíve just made a whole bunch of people very happy. Spread this video around, folks (and the rest of Joshilyn's channel). A simple link in a signature can work wonders--and help bring in more precious donations. Cool 

Quote
I really hope it helps you think about something other than the pandy.
Yes indeed, JH. Youíve given us something to be optimistic about. It's party time again in Beach Boy Land.  Brian, Dennis, & Carl

Good to see a discussion going at full tilt "across the road". There'll be one here too, no doubt, once those guitarists chime in. Wink

Joshilyn, I hope making it took your mind off the current mess for a bit. Then it really will have been worthwhile. Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2020, 03:08:16 AM »

Very cool! Thanks for doing this
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2020, 03:21:21 AM »

Perhaps I should add that the visuals alone are a delight (with a full screen, of course).

This aspect has not gone unnoticed. Wonderful stuff!
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2020, 09:35:41 PM »

Great stuff, as usual. Any thoughts on the solo itself, or Carl's abilities in that area? Do you know much about his approach (like, say, improvised vs. written by Carl vs.
directed/written out by Brian)? It's interesting how all these subtle licks get buried and can go unnoticed.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 06:01:27 AM »

Great stuff, as usual. Any thoughts on the solo itself, or Carl's abilities in that area? Do you know much about his approach (like, say, improvised vs. written by Carl vs.
directed/written out by Brian)? It's interesting how all these subtle licks get buried and can go unnoticed.

I'm guessing Carl pretty much planned out what he wanted to do then improvised around that.  There are a few takes of a solo for DYWD and they aren't the same.  I think there are a few other instances of where Carl tries one solo on a track of the multi, only to cut that and do a new one as it dubs to mono?
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 06:10:30 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI5i8beBkg&feature=youtu.be

Hello Friends.  A little something to distract you from the chaos out there.  In this video, you'll learn how Brian arranged 7 guitars plus 2 Fender basses to create a powerful, driving track unlike anything he'd done for the Beach Boys before.  As usual, I've created an hyper-accurate re-recording of the original backing track to effect a "fantasy multi-track" that we can use to learn about Brian's productions.  This one was so accurate that YouTube thought it was the original recording!!!


I really hope it helps you think about something other than the pandy.

Thank you so much!
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 09:26:33 AM »

Excellent work!

My thoughts on these "Wall Of Guitars" type of productions from Brian (and Spector and others including Jimmy Page a few years later) is again just how influential Les Paul's "New Sound" recordings from the late 40's and early 50's were on rock and roll. Les would overdub himself as if the guitars were a big band arrangement with horns and winds, and he'd fill the track with guitars playing in every frequency range from bass to impossibly high treble. That's how tracks like the one above are arranged, and I'll suggest Brian hearing all of those Les Paul Capitol records on the Wilson family jukebox in Hawthorne was one of the ideas he carried around in his mind for years before he had the outlet to put it to tape himself.
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2020, 06:17:15 PM »


aeijtzsche do you happen to know what bass and amplifier were used to get the tone at the very start of your video? It's the bass line from I'm So Young. I've always wondered who played it, what bass, and what album. Please let me know if you do!
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2020, 08:08:57 PM »

Well it's from the today LP.  As for who played it, there is no way to be absolutely sure but it is highly likely that Brian played that, since they cut the track themselves and Carl was already doing guitar.  The instrument is a Danelectro 6-string bass.  The amp could have been any number of Fender amps, as they owned many, but Bassmen were popular bass amps in the studio at that time.
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 09:05:32 PM »

It sounds like there is tremolo on it, which the bassman of the day did not have. Showman, Concert, Bandmaster were the big amps that boasted trem. Did Carl still use the Showman in 65? The Princeton Reverb and Vibrochamp has trem but are much smaller and maybe not practical in a big production - but being a relatively straightforward tune with comparatively low instruments it perhaps could have been close mic’d or over dub’d? Not sure. Would love to get the definitive answer or to at least narrow it down some as I’ve always loved that tone.

Also. Can we be sure it is a Danelectro? Not a Fender Bass VI? Sounds like it has roundwounds on it to me. What do you think?
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2020, 09:34:57 PM »

That's a good point about the trem, but I believe it's not trem but in fact tape slap that's making the sound cut in and out so to speak.  This was an overdub so amp size wouldn't matter.  I just think there's really know way to know in this case.  We can look at what they were using on the road but I've never seen a complete inventory of all the amps they owned for recording or whatever, and given their cozy relationship with Fender I'm sure they had anything they wanted.

It could theoretically be a Bass VI.  This is another unknown.  The studio pros preferred the Danos because they came first and studio pros are conservative.  I'm sure Brian and Carl saw this and got one for the band, but it's completely possible they got a VI when they came out.

Danos came shipped with roundwounds and as far as I know so did Fender VIs.  Flats were on the way out anyway, so I'm confident all the six string bass stuff is roundwounds.  That's what I've got on my own Dano, which you'll soon see in a video where I talk about this mysterious, much misunderstood instrument!
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2020, 09:38:19 PM »

Thank you for the reply. Just wanted to add - the bass vi shipped with flatwounds. I was pretty sure of this but had to verify it before I could report back. Iím with you, though. I feel like it is a round wound tone, where you can hear the fingers sliding on the strings. But not sure if itís just being picked up due to what I perceived as trem but is actually tape slap... so still canít decide if I think itís rounds or flats but leaning toward rounds.

The only reason I bring up the bass vi as a theory is because obviously the band was endorsed by Fender and given new toys. Like Carlís prototype fender xii for example. So I think it could be a possibility itís a bass vi. Especially when you consider Glen didnít even own one and had to borrow Carolís. These were studio musicians but also constantly in The Beach Boys orbit, as well as Glen being a little closer to the band.. ergo .. potentially allowing the Easy accessibility of a bass vi.

I need to get a jerry Jones danelectro bass vi copy now and compare it to my bass vi!

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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2020, 10:16:40 PM »

Interesting that Bass VIs were shipped with flats.  You make some good points, and the fact is, until we get some documentation it's a hard call to make.  The Bass VI had been around long enough by 65 that they certainly would've known about it.

I'm in the opposite boat from you - I have a Danelectro but want to get a Bass VI at some point.
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2020, 09:01:48 AM »

The major reason why studio players didn't use the Fender Bass VI as much as the Danelectros was the tremolo bridge on the Bass VI. Studio players in the 60's preferred hard-tail bridges across the board for their regular work, because they were easier to get in tune and stay in tune. In my opinion the biggest drawback to the Bass VI and the reason why it's still not as popular as other models of baritones is that tremolo bridge. You're already dealing with a much longer scale and slack strings (depending on which tuning or set of strings you're using), why make it even more unstable tuning-wise with a tremolo bridge? But that's what Fender did. And that's why they didn't catch on as much as the Danelectros, and even those would be modified by the players to be more stable for tuning and intonation.
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 01:02:02 PM »

I had an original 60ís Fender VI at one point and even with a lot of trem use it stayed in tune fine.
Iím not disagreeing with you, but I havenít heard that as a common complaint with the bass vi.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2020, 01:22:25 PM »

I had an original 60ís Fender VI at one point and even with a lot of trem use it stayed in tune fine.
Iím not disagreeing with you, but I havenít heard that as a common complaint with the bass vi.

Interesting.  I played a couple of the reissues in guitar stores and they seemed to stay in tune pretty well, too.  Plus unlike the Dano, they feel like a solid instrument unlike the helium balloon experience of the Danelectro--another nice thing about them.
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2020, 04:34:08 PM »

I had an original 60ís Fender VI at one point and even with a lot of trem use it stayed in tune fine.
Iím not disagreeing with you, but I havenít heard that as a common complaint with the bass vi.

Interesting.  I played a couple of the reissues in guitar stores and they seemed to stay in tune pretty well, too.  Plus unlike the Dano, they feel like a solid instrument unlike the helium balloon experience of the Danelectro--another nice thing about them.

If you had a Bass VI (original or reissue) and could get that low E string intonated without any mods, I'm seriously happy to hear that!  Grin

They were and are known for having intonation issues especially on the lower/heavier strings, and the tremolo bridge didn't help with tuning overall which is why I think a number of players end up locking it down anyway. Ultimately the instrument wasn't really used with tremolo bar that much in the 60's, so why they didn't do a hard-tail is still a mystery. Nothing that can't be fixed with some mods, of course, but the rep on the Bass VI was that it was difficult to intonate properly due to the exaggerated string length and scale.

Don't get me wrong, it's a super cool instrument with a great sound and vibe, but that tremolo bridge choice was always a question for me. I got a Danelectro with individual string saddles, and I had it intonated above the 12th fret just fine thanks to that bridge.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2020, 05:28:07 PM »

Craig -- Do you think the fact that the Beach Boys had a relationship with Fender and that they might not have been quite as demanding about their studio instruments as the pros leaves the door open for them owning and using a Bass VI on their 6-string bass work away from the studio pros?  There's at least I'm So Young and That's Not Me, if not others, that seem likely to be 6-string bass instruments.
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2020, 06:48:39 PM »

Craig -- Do you think the fact that the Beach Boys had a relationship with Fender and that they might not have been quite as demanding about their studio instruments as the pros leaves the door open for them owning and using a Bass VI on their 6-string bass work away from the studio pros?  There's at least I'm So Young and That's Not Me, if not others, that seem likely to be 6-string bass instruments.

It very well could have been the case! Obviously the Beach Boys and Carl in particular appearing in Fender ads as an endorser would open up the door for new instruments, or even prototypes as seen with his Electric XII. But it's also a case where among the sadly small numbers of available studio photos from, say, 63-66 we rarely see a Fender XII in use by anyone.

The most visible and common occurrence where I've seen one in regular use by studio players was on mid-60's episodes of The Lawrence Welk Show, being played mostly by Buddy Merrill and less often Neil LeVang. Welk and his arrangers *loved* that tic-toc bass sound in the mid-60's. But apart from that, most times it's a Danelectro shown in the studios being played.

The only bass I've seen Carl use during this time in a studio session was the Fender(s) in the GV session video, and those were obviously 4-strings. But anything was possible short of actual photo evidence. We can say based on that same evidence that the "pros" who were playing 6-string bass on these sessions favored the Danelectro.

Could the 6-string bass sound on tracks like you mentioned have been Carl playing a 4-string in the high register?
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2020, 06:54:20 PM »

Craig -- Do you think the fact that the Beach Boys had a relationship with Fender and that they might not have been quite as demanding about their studio instruments as the pros leaves the door open for them owning and using a Bass VI on their 6-string bass work away from the studio pros?  There's at least I'm So Young and That's Not Me, if not others, that seem likely to be 6-string bass instruments.

It very well could have been the case! Obviously the Beach Boys and Carl in particular appearing in Fender ads as an endorser would open up the door for new instruments, or even prototypes as seen with his Electric XII. But it's also a case where among the sadly small numbers of available studio photos from, say, 63-66 we rarely see a Fender XII in use by anyone.

The most visible and common occurrence where I've seen one in regular use by studio players was on mid-60's episodes of The Lawrence Welk Show, being played mostly by Buddy Merrill and less often Neil LeVang. Welk and his arrangers *loved* that tic-toc bass sound in the mid-60's. But apart from that, most times it's a Danelectro shown in the studios being played.

The only bass I've seen Carl use during this time in a studio session was the Fender(s) in the GV session video, and those were obviously 4-strings. But anything was possible short of actual photo evidence. We can say based on that same evidence that the "pros" who were playing 6-string bass on these sessions favored the Danelectro.

Could the 6-string bass sound on tracks like you mentioned have been Carl playing a 4-string in the high register?

It's certainly possible it's 4-string.  However, It's not Carl, since he's playing guitar on the same overdubs.  I also think that it sounds short-scaley.
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2020, 07:02:34 PM »

Who else would have played the part?
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