Guess I'm dumb

[jlaird]

not to play on words, but is there a version of the boys doing this song, and if so could anyone help me out (on getting it).  this question seems dumb, but i dont care

[Aegir]

As far as I know, no. Brian and Carl are on Glen's version, though.

[SunBurn]

As far as I know, no. Brian and Carl are on Glen's version, though.

I've always thought I heard Mike Love on this. in the meantime, I had heard that the Honeys did the backing vocals.

I recently obtained the session tapes, and I'm pretty sure I can detect Mike Love, Brian and Marilyn on there, but the part that sounds very soft and feminine -- like Marilyn -- could be Brian and/or Carl. Anyway, I'm mostly going by my ear here, and distinguishing individual Beach Boy voices on backing vocals is a challenging pastime. Does anyone out there have any definitive info on exactly who's singing here?

I must say Glen Campbell is sensational on the challenging lead (not double-tracked). Before the take, Glen mumbles something that sounds like "If I make it like I want it, I'll say sh*t!", and Brian says "Glenny that was outta -- outta sight! Come on in..." after the take. The instrumental backing is phenomenal too, and all apparently live. On the level of Pet Sounds imho.

[The Shift]

GID sounds to me like a missing Pet Sounds track.

[anazgnos]

What I wouldn't give to hear a Brian guide vocal for this song, or something like it.

[metal flake paint]

As far as I know, no. Brian and Carl are on Glen's version, though.

...along with Marilyn Wilson, Diane Rovell, and Ginger Blake, according to Craig Slowinski.

[mammy blue]

Imagine Today! with a BB version of Guess I'm Dumb in place of Bull Session, and weep.

[SMiLE Brian]

Imagine Today! with a BB version of Guess I'm Dumb in place of Bull Session, and weep.

Wept many a times thinking that...

[runnersdialzero]

What I wouldn't give to hear a Brian guide vocal for this song, or something like it.

Same, and same goes for "Sherry". I always found it odd that Brian's guide vocals for several Pet Sounds songs still exist ("Here Today", "Sloop John B", "Hang On To Your Ego", etc.), but he apparently never had the time to put down a guide vocal for an otherwise finished "Sherry". Ugh :\

[PongHit]

I assume The Wondermints recording was an attempt to emulate what a BBoys version would have sounded like?

[Reverend Rock]

What...A...Recording!!!!  It is an absolute crime that wasn't a massive hit.

[XXXCD]

GID sounds to me like a missing Pet Sounds track.

I agree.

It's produced exactly the same as the Pet Sound tracks and could have easily fitted into the album. It's an under-rated piece of music.

It refelects Brian's creativity at the time... he was prepared to give this track away because he could write this stuff so easily.

[grooveblaster]

Found this version on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckSfcW0z3o

[Chocolate Shake Man]

GID sounds to me like a missing Pet Sounds track.

I agree.

It's produced exactly the same as the Pet Sound tracks and could have easily fitted into the album. It's an under-rated piece of music.

It refelects Brian's creativity at the time... he was prepared to give this track away because he could write this stuff so easily.

Sounds more like Today! era to me. But, yes, it is indeed great.

[grooveblaster]

GID sounds to me like a missing Pet Sounds track.

I agree.

It's produced exactly the same as the Pet Sound tracks and could have easily fitted into the album. It's an under-rated piece of music.

It refelects Brian's creativity at the time... he was prepared to give this track away because he could write this stuff so easily.

Sounds more like Today! era to me. But, yes, it is indeed great.

The recording session date is closer to the Today! sessions than Pet Sounds sessions correct?

[I. Spaceman]

October 1964, during the early stages of Today sessions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

October 14th.

[anazgnos]

It's amazing that this track was done in '64.  The tendency has always been to think of Brian's work from '64 to '66 as a linear progression of "increasing sophistication", but this track suggests that he had really already arrived at 100% sophistication, but was deliberately holding it back from his BBs productions so he could kind of edge them up to it gradually. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's amazing that this track was done in '64.  The tendency has always been to think of Brian's work from '64 to '66 as a linear progression of "increasing sophistication", but this track suggests that he had really already arrived at 100% sophistication, but was deliberately holding it back from his BBs productions so he could kind of edge them up to it gradually. 

I don't know. When I Grow Up and She Knows Me Too Well had already been released before this session. Two months later, Brian was recording Kiss Me Baby for the band. To me, Guess I'm Dumb fits in perfectly with those kinds of tracks.

[PongHit]

She Knows Me Too Well had already been released before this session. Two months later, Brian was recording Kiss Me Baby for the band. To me, Guess I'm Dumb fits in perfectly with those kinds of tracks.

Agreed.  Great stuff: "Kiss Me Baby," and "She Knows Me Too Well."

[anazgnos]

She Knows Me Too Well had already been released before this session. Two months later, Brian was recording Kiss Me Baby for the band. To me, Guess I'm Dumb fits in perfectly with those kinds of tracks.

Agreed.  Great stuff: "Kiss Me Baby," and "She Knows Me Too Well."

Great songs, but to me they sound almost like a soft-pedalling of the kind of stuff he was already doing on "Guess I'm Dumb".  Structurally and musically, they're a lot more conventional.  Not as close to all the jazzy, diminished chords and crazy modulations that reached full flower on Pet Sounds and are already in evidence on "Guess I'm Dumb". 

Well, with the exception of "She Knows Me Too Well", that's pretty much all the way there. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

She Knows Me Too Well had already been released before this session. Two months later, Brian was recording Kiss Me Baby for the band. To me, Guess I'm Dumb fits in perfectly with those kinds of tracks.

Agreed.  Great stuff: "Kiss Me Baby," and "She Knows Me Too Well."

Great songs, but to me they sound almost like a soft-pedalling of the kind of stuff he was already doing on "Guess I'm Dumb".  Structurally and musically, they're a lot more conventional.  Not as close to all the jazzy, diminished chords and crazy modulations that reached full flower on Pet Sounds and are already in evidence on "Guess I'm Dumb". 

Well, with the exception of "She Knows Me Too Well", that's pretty much all the way there. 

Sorry - I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I still think this is quite in keeping with the Today! aesthetic. First - remember that When I Grow Up and She Knows Me Too Well were not"soft-pedalling of the kind of stuff he was already doing on Guess I'm Dumb" since they were both recorded two months before Guess I'm Dumb. Furthermore, Brian was using diminished chords on Beach Boys tracks around the time like All Dressed Up For School (recorded a month before GID) and also, what is to my ears a song more advanced than GID, In The Back of My Mind. To me, GID fits perfectly on the B side of Today! but doesn't have the fullness or the multi-instrumentality of the Pet Sounds songs.

[guitarfool2002]

Conventional sells more records. And I think Brian may have been listening to more Bacharach around this time and taking a lot of cues from those song structures and chord progressions. It still amazes me how musically complex and sometimes downright bizarre some of those Bacharach-David-Warwick were which became hit records. And I'd put some of Brian's 64-65 tunes like "Kiss Me Baby" right next to Bacharach in those ways. You could also say Brian had those leanings as early as Catch A Wave, which has a very strange intro/modulation going into a straightforward pop song, and especially Warmth Of The Sun, which has some pretty unusual key changes too. Then again, Guess I'm Dumb didn't sell all that well, and neither did "Little Girl I Once Knew".

It's really neat to trace his songwriting and see glimpses of those quirky songwriter traits he'd become known for with Pet Sounds and the like as early as the first album. I guess it was about refining what he already did and liked to do when writing a song.

[I. Spaceman]

I think his "outside" productions going back to even The Survivors' After The Game were more sophisticated and experimental than the work he was doing with The Beach Boys. His first true Wrecking Crew productions were his girl-group productions for The Honeys and Sharon Marie. Maybe he saw this type of sound as a more "feminine" trip, ala his beloved Spector works for the Crystals/Ronettes? Guess I'm Dumb falls into this line of creativity and progression, bringing in the male lead vocal, but still with a heavy Honeys presence in the backing.
I think it took Brian a while to feel comfortable bringing in such a soft, sensitive sound to what was essentially the ultimate masculine-image rock band of that era. Of course, he'd already recorded plenty of ballads before with The BB, but these could be seen as fitting into a doo-wop/Earth Angel scheme, and still have essentially stripped-down "rock"/piano backings.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm thinking perhaps Brian had enough of a commercial instinct to know what would sell and what wouldn't sell, and if you place his "outside" productions into a sub-category a level or two under the Beach Boys where he was all but obligated to deliver commercial hits, it gave him quite a bit of freedom to stretch out and indulge some of his more experimental, more sophisticated, but less accessible songwriting traits. That's not taking anything at all away from any of the artists he wrote for and produced outside the BB's, but obviously he's going to give his family and the band with his name and image the strongest commercial material.

I'm trying to remember: Wasn't there a specific part in an early contract, somewhere, that gave Brian the ability to work with outside artists as long as he delivered the BB's product for Capitol? It would be the perfect vehicle for him to almost practice and develop his craft and not feel as much pressure for a "hit". And Brian also had his own separate publishing company, in partnership with someone whose name I can't recall, prior to 1965 for these projects, didn't he?