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Author Topic: "She Don't Know" on "Mess of Help"  (Read 7183 times)
MikestheGreatest!!
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2016, 01:43:39 PM »

I liked Mess of Help greatly when I first heard it but was literally astonished it was chosen as lead single over Marcella.

Though I have to admit nowadays, if forced to choose between the two, I would take Mess over Marcie mainly because its idiosyncratic instrumental track wears better that the more formulaic Marcie's does.

And I've always found the "sandals dance at my feet" lyric and the irritating "feet/sweet" rhyme  to be more annoying than "she don't know a thing".  I thought that the "she don't know a thing" was a comment about the singer bitching about his girlfriend not understanding the supposed verities contained within the song's other lyrical assertions.

Not at the time of the song's release knowing of the Beatrix origin.

But never ever did I think back in the day at the time of their releases that either song would be a hit single.  Just as I knew Surfs Up would not be a hit single.

Strange time for the Boys...they were connecting with a small select audience, but certainly not top forty radio.
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JK
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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2016, 03:02:44 PM »

Not at the time of the song's release knowing of the Beatrix origin.

Beatrix? You're not Dutch by any chance, are you?  Smokin
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Don Malcolm
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2016, 05:21:20 PM »

I liked Mess of Help greatly when I first heard it but was literally astonished it was chosen as lead single over Marcella.

Though I have to admit nowadays, if forced to choose between the two, I would take Mess over Marcie mainly because its idiosyncratic instrumental track wears better that the more formulaic Marcie's does.

And I've always found the "sandals dance at my feet" lyric and the irritating "feet/sweet" rhyme  to be more annoying than "she don't know a thing".  I thought that the "she don't know a thing" was a comment about the singer bitching about his girlfriend not understanding the supposed verities contained within the song's other lyrical assertions.

Not at the time of the song's release knowing of the Beatrix origin.

But never ever did I think back in the day at the time of their releases that either song would be a hit single.  Just as I knew Surfs Up would not be a hit single.

Strange time for the Boys...they were connecting with a small select audience, but certainly not top forty radio.

That interp of the tag lyrics is probably right about where Reiley left off with it, but I sure would have loved to have heard the back-and-forth about it when the song was being made. It "works," you could call it "archetypal irony" or some such in the sense that what's needed clearly doesn't seem to be forthcoming, a so-called "universal condition of man."

It's also possible that Jack was thinking about what he and Carl had been through without "a mess of help" from Brian in piecing together the SMILE puzzle, which had been ongoing in this timeframe, and commemorated it with this: "I need the warmth of your smile/To heat (the) (my) frostbitten sorrow."

I think Marcella should have been the first single, with Mess of Help in reserve. The Reprise goonies could have plugged it like so:

THE BEACH BOYS ARE BACK. And they can't wait for June.
Their classic sound grows up with "Marcella."


In May-June '72 there was a lot of turning back the clock and "return to the past" in the air. It was their best shot at the time, to come out swinging. Particularly since they weren't able to make "Surf's Up" to SMILE a 1-2 "artistic punch."

Much as I love "Mess"--and I try not to be too obnoxious about just how much I do--it couldn't possibly have worked as the first single since it sounded nothing at all like the Beach Boys. Maybe as a second single, with an ad that said: "And now for something COMPLETELY different!"

But then again the band should also have put out an LP called HINDSIGHT to balance out 20/20...  3D
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Awesoman
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2016, 10:01:25 AM »

Although I've always been a big fan of this song, I've also always fealt that it's 2 completely unrelated songs mashed together. I think it would have had been a potentially successful single without the "She don't know" breaks.  They come out of left field.

That theory wouldn't be unheard of.  Reminds me of the Beatles' "I've Got a Feeling".  McCartney wrote the Genesis of the song, then Lennon comes in with a bit he was writing for a separate song, and it just worked.
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Awesoman
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2016, 10:03:28 AM »

the lead vocal, is this a Carl double up?  using two different vocal techniques?  always found this
intriguing how they produced this tune.  would love to hear it accapella (which is nude, oops
I lost my head)

We went into this in some length on the lead vocal thread which I participated in.  I think we came up with it's three vocals, at least two of which are Carl singing, as you say, with two different vocal techiques, and a third unidentified vocalist who might be Brian but is more likely to be Carl again.

Having heard the parts isolated...the third part is Brian, one of 3 songs where he is present vocally (the other two being Marcella and He Come Down)

This aligns with what Mike said at the time regarding Brian's involvement with the album: "Brian was there with 'Marcella', and 'Mess Of Help' has his harmonies with the vocal." He didn't mention "He Come Down" in that sentence, but yes, Brian's there too. Speaking of THAT song....man, that gospel ending is fantastic, with the churchy group harmonies and Blondie wailing away on top!

Ten years after the fact, Carl made this comment regarding CATP "So Tough": "If we had done eight tunes like 'Marcella', it could have been a great rock album, almost a folk-rock album...I wish Brian had been strong enough to produce the record, because it could have been an ass-kicking, great record."

Yeah, that album is hit or miss, but it had the potential to be great.  Way too short too. 
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cube_monkey
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2020, 12:24:00 PM »

This is an old thread, but  hey, this became one of my most listened to beach boys LP's.   Anywho,  I was in High School,  maybe a freshman and  as a kid  my babysitter had Shutdown vol 2.  I wore it out and she gave it to me...so that was my introduction to the beach boys.  So to make short story very long, I got the other albums,  Pet sounds  and generally what was in the record rack and that was all i knew of the beach boys, so early 70's I kinda moved on to progressive rock like King Crimson, the Who, and of course Beatles when my friends brother brought home Revolver and Sgt. Pepper and my jaws were dropping. Smiley.  So at that point I had left the BB's behind.  So one day,  I see a Pet Sounds LP at the brothers house, thought nothing of it, but hold on,
its a double LP set with SOME OTHER BAND! Smiley  I didn't recognize anyone from the picture (long hair ect, not observant then),  and so we put it on and Mess of Help is on and its like what the hell its this?HuhHuh  Really liked it.  Especially the drumming and "gritty" aspect of it.   So good or bad, it holds a place in my nostalgia.  Now, now that i do my own recording and mixing I want to know who the heck mixed "here she comes!".  Mr Desper said he didn't like the monitor systems at Brother (IF i remember right -- Wall Heilders old equipment).  Prob JBL's.  dunno.  Sounds like they wanted to be "earthy" or whatever it is and (like the exile on main street LP) not have the vocals up front.  But man, love those drums, in your face.  I think the drums are the "lead".  Smiley    Gated drums, and prob compression, which i could make drums sound like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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c-man
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2020, 09:45:26 AM »

I would imagine "Here She Comes" was mixed by Ricky and Blondie at the Village Recorders, probably with engineer Rob Fraboni. That's who the band worked with later that year at the Village for the Holland post-production sessions. It's been said that the So Tough album was the result of the Boys working in three studios simultaneously, in order to beat the deadline before they went back out on the road:  "Dennis Wilson and Daryl Dragon in one, Carl, Mike, and Al at another studio, and Blondie and Ricky at a third" (quoted from David Leaf's book). The BBC Radio series on The Beach Boys was the source for Leaf's info on this, and IIRC, whoever made that statement in the series also said that DW and DD were at Sunset Sound, Blondie and Ricky were at the Village, and the other guys were at the studio in Brian's house. Now, the AFM contracts for these sessions (which cover only the basic tracking sessions and instrumental overdubs) indicate the house studio was used for all of this except for the strings on Dennis' two numbers (Sound City in Sepulveda) and the horns on "Make It Good" (Sunset Sound). Keyboardist Alex Del Zoppo has recalled playing piano on the two Blondie and Ricky tracks at Brian's, so all of this leads me to the conclusion that at least the mixdowns (and possibly vocals) on those two tunes were done at the Village, while Dennis and Daryl mixed down his two tracks at Sunset, and the other guys finished up the remainder of the album at Brian's. EDIT: if info on the specific studios wasn't given in that BBC Radio series, then I think it was mentioned in MOJO's article on the Holland album (circa 2002), for which both Blondie and Ricky provided their recollections.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 09:53:31 AM by c-man » Logged
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