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Author Topic: The potential success (or lack therof) of the aborted Lei'd in Hawaii album  (Read 1919 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« on: December 23, 2019, 03:10:22 PM »

Upon re-reading the liner notes of my CD copy of Sunshine Tomorrow (gotta love physical media!), I was reminded of the odd fact that the aborted Lei'd in Hawaii album was going to have canned audience clapping for the tracks they were trying to "fake" as being live tracks.

This lead to several questions/comments that have been running through my head:

- How exactly were they planning to fake the live applause? Were they just going to fade into applause from the actual Hawaii concerts? Or use stock applause from other shows?  I can't imagine it sounding natural. It's like a 60s sitcom with live applause (Dick Van Dyke Show, for example) vs. a 60s sitcom with canned laughter (Gilligan's Island, Get Smart, etc) - pretty damn obvious.

- Was this planned fakery a big secret that they intended to keep from the public? (For that matter, how and when did it become public/fan knowledge that the Party! album also had "faked" party sounds?)

- Are there other examples in this era of other bands doing this type of thing for a big batch of songs on an album? Not just talking about a bit of studio "touch up" on a live track, but full-on faked live songs on a live album?

- How many songs would have been faked vs the actual tracks used from the Hawaii concerts? Was literally nothing salvageable from the actual live sets?

- Since, as the  Sunshine Tomorrow liner notes mentioned, the Lei'd in Hawaii song style was very much an intended replica, so to speak, of the very specific Smiley Smile sound, it seems that its absence from ever being released might have contributed to Smiley Smile being even more of an outlier in the band's catalog. After all, if they'd had released this album as a followup, at least it would be more of an established "thing" that they really shifted their sound into this vibe for a time.

- Could this album possibly have done well, with its trippy renditions of older BBs tunes? Or safe to say it would have flopped either way?

-  It feels like this was maybe the earliest iteration of the band trying to directly recycle their material to make their older songs hip by very drastically changing their arrangements into what Brian presumably thought was as hip/modern a way as possible. (I for the record think that Smiley Smile vibe works here, and generally sounds rad on this unfinished album).  In a way, I see a through-line to the early '70s "updated" versions of Friends songs, and even to something like 1992's "Surfin'" remake; this seems to be the earliest example of the band trying to shoehorn a modern "twist" upon an old classic tune or two.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 03:12:57 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
B.E.
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2019, 04:02:04 PM »

Upon re-reading the liner notes of my CD copy of Sunshine Tomorrow (gotta love physical media!)

Whoa, I re-read the liner notes just a week or so ago, too. I've been listening to those Lei'd In Hawaii studio recordings over and over. Anyway, I found the original liner notes to Wild Honey to be the most fascinating. It stated that "The Letter" would be included on a "new upcoming live album which will be highlights from a variety of shows". So...

- How many songs would have been faked vs the actual tracks used from the Hawaii concerts? Was literally nothing salvageable from the actual live sets?

I think, initially, it was concluded that nothing was salvageable from the actual live sets and they set out to record a fake live set in the studio. Then, they decided to abandon that idea (or did they?) and focus on Wild Honey. According to those original liner notes, there was still an idea to release a live album after Wild Honey. Was this a new idea to include the best performances they could from various shows (and potentially include some studio performances as well) or are they just trying to sell the studio recordings as being from actual shows? Either way, fascinating. I thought that by the time Wild Honey was being recorded in earnest, Lei'd In Hawaii (in whatever incarnation) had already been scrapped.

- How exactly were they planning to fake the live applause? Were they just going to fade into applause from the actual Hawaii concerts? Or use stock applause from other shows?  I can't imagine it sounding natural. It's like a 60s sitcom with live applause (Dick Van Dyke Show, for example) vs. a 60s sitcom with canned laughter (Gilligan's Island, Get Smart, etc) - pretty damn obvious.

Just a guess, but maybe they had recorded crowd noise separately from their instruments and vocals. That way they'd have some options when mixing.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 04:07:03 PM by B.E. » Logged
All Summer Long
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2019, 10:02:18 PM »

Upon re-reading the liner notes of my CD copy of Sunshine Tomorrow (gotta love physical media!), I was reminded of the odd fact that the aborted Lei'd in Hawaii album was going to have canned audience clapping for the tracks they were trying to "fake" as being live tracks.

- Are there other examples in this era of other bands doing this type of thing for a big batch of songs on an album? Not just talking about a bit of studio "touch up" on a live track, but full-on faked live songs on a live album?

I’m pretty sure that I’ve read that the Four Seasons did this (and some other groups too, but that’s the only name I completely remember).

Also, how could they have released this without finished/any vocals (i.e. Barbara Ann and I believe Surfin’)?
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c-man
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2019, 11:27:42 PM »

As for other groups of the era doing "fake" live recordings - well yes, just maybe not to this extent (an entire album's worth). Case in point: the Stones' late '66 live fiasco Got LIVE If You Want It, which contained studio recordings of two songs which were "enhanced" with live audience sounds. Another case in point: the Kinks' dismal 1967 Live At Kelvin Hall, which, while sourced from a concert recording, was heavily overdubbed not only with musical parts, but also with an extended, repeated tape loop of audience sounds.

Not to mention the Boys' own inclusion of the stripped-down studio tracks mixed with audience sounds for "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "I Get Around" on their first live album (oddly, they took the time to record live-in-the-studio versions of these, which would have been much more palatable and less noticeable then what they ended up doing).

In the end, I guess all three groups and/or their management figured no one would notice! At least the Boys ended up shelving their '67 studio fakery.
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2019, 04:16:55 AM »

Upon re-reading the liner notes of my CD copy of Sunshine Tomorrow (gotta love physical media!), I was reminded of the odd fact that the aborted Lei'd in Hawaii album was going to have canned audience clapping for the tracks they were trying to "fake" as being live tracks.

- Are there other examples in this era of other bands doing this type of thing for a big batch of songs on an album? Not just talking about a bit of studio "touch up" on a live track, but full-on faked live songs on a live album?

I’m pretty sure that I’ve read that the Four Seasons did this (and some other groups too, but that’s the only name I completely remember).

Also, how could they have released this without finished/any vocals (i.e. Barbara Ann and I believe Surfin’)?

The album lineup on the reel was apparently:

Fred Vail Intro
The Letter
You're So Good to Me
Help You Rhonda
California Girls
God Only Knows
Surfer Girl
Sloop John B
With a Little Help From My Friends
Barbara Ann
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Their Hearts Were Full of Spring
Good Vibrations

So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.
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B.E.
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 05:27:00 AM »

The album lineup on the reel was apparently:

Fred Vail Intro
The Letter
You're So Good to Me
Help You Rhonda
California Girls
God Only Knows
Surfer Girl
Sloop John B
With a Little Help From My Friends
Barbara Ann
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Their Hearts Were Full of Spring
Good Vibrations

So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.

Interesting. The sequence on Sunshine Tomorrow is slightly different in that GOK is between THWFOS and GV. There's also no mention of BA or YGTHYLA. I wonder what the source of those tracks would have been. Live performances, presumably. If they were on the reel, I wish they would have included those vintage mixes on Sunshine Tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 05:28:34 AM by B.E. » Logged
SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 05:36:43 AM »

The album lineup on the reel was apparently:

Fred Vail Intro
The Letter
You're So Good to Me
Help You Rhonda
California Girls
God Only Knows
Surfer Girl
Sloop John B
With a Little Help From My Friends
Barbara Ann
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Their Hearts Were Full of Spring
Good Vibrations

So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.

Interesting. The sequence on Sunshine Tomorrow is slightly different in that GOK is between THWFOS and GV. There's also no mention of BA or YGTHYLA. I wonder what the source of those tracks would have been. Live performances, presumably. If they were on the reel, I wish they would have included those vintage mixes on Sunshine Tomorrow.


They were from the 1966 Michigan concerts, not sure which shows though. They were understandably left off ST1 for CD space since they'd already been released in some form but I think it was a bad move not including the mono mixes on ST2.
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B.E.
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2019, 05:41:31 AM »


Interesting. The sequence on Sunshine Tomorrow is slightly different in that GOK is between THWFOS and GV. There's also no mention of BA or YGTHYLA. I wonder what the source of those tracks would have been. Live performances, presumably. If they were on the reel, I wish they would have included those vintage mixes on Sunshine Tomorrow.

They were from the 1966 Michigan concerts, not sure which shows though. They were understandably left off ST1 for CD space since they'd already been released in some form but I think it was a bad move not including the mono mixes on ST2.

Got it. Thanks for the info. They also could have mentioned this in the liner notes on ST1; including, which shows were the source of each.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 10:15:18 PM »

It was pretty common in the ‘60s. The Seeds “Raw and Alive” is a studio album with audience overdubs. The Beach Boys themselves had already done this with “Party” and a couple studio tracks on the ‘64 Concert album too.

EDIT - looks like c-man already mentioned this ha.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 10:16:45 PM by DonnyL » Logged

Lonely Summer
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2019, 11:52:58 PM »

As for other groups of the era doing "fake" live recordings - well yes, just maybe not to this extent (an entire album's worth). Case in point: the Stones' late '66 live fiasco Got LIVE If You Want It, which contained studio recordings of two songs which were "enhanced" with live audience sounds. Another case in point: the Kinks' dismal 1967 Live At Kelvin Hall, which, while sourced from a concert recording, was heavily overdubbed not only with musical parts, but also with an extended, repeated tape loop of audience sounds.
If this is true, then why on earth didn't they bother to overdub a guitar solo on "You Really Got Me"?
Oh wait...don't tell me...it's because Dave Davies COULDN'T play the solo, and Jimmy Page was unavailable!
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 09:34:27 AM »

Regarding fake live albums, Gene Pitney told Goldmine Magazine IIRC that his live album was a studio job in which the audience noise was taken from a boxing match, and that the album even included the bell from the match! And although James Brown was acclaimed for his Apollo live album, he had some fakes too, including one or two studio tracks from his 1963 Pure Dynamite album, the Showtime from 1964 which was all studio recordings with applause in between tracks, the 1970 Sex Machine album which was fake live on Record 1 but real live on Record 2, and 1971's Super Bad which may have been entirely fake live.
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TheLazenby
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2020, 03:31:31 PM »

It was pretty common in the ‘60s. The Seeds “Raw and Alive” is a studio album with audience overdubs. The Beach Boys themselves had already done this with “Party” and a couple studio tracks on the ‘64 Concert album too.

EDIT - looks like c-man already mentioned this ha.

Want to hear a truly odd "live" Frankenstein?  The live version of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida."

There's a long church-like organ intro clearly tacked on (the audience chatter is looped fairly obviously), then much of the song seems to be legitimately live... complete with a drum solo obviously pasted in from another performance, because the atmosphere and sound quality totally change.  To top it all off, there's a noticeable jump in the song to wipe out the 'Egyptian'-styled section, I'm guessing to keep the song to the 19 minutes it already is.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 03:35:55 PM »

<<So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.>>

I think in those days it was all about how many contemporary hits - some on the radio right now - they could put on an album cover to grab the attention of buyers.  Everybody covered everybody, especially The Beatles.  So a live album - even a fake one -was all about how it read in the bin.  A lot of them were a step below greatest hits albums because of the primitive recording technology.  I was always puzzled by the track lineup for Jan & Dean's Golden Hits vol. 3, from the fall of 1966, because it contained no hits by Jan & Dean and only one single, Batman, that barely charted..  But to the buyer and record dealers, those songs on the cover were recent hits still getting radio airplay... it didn't much matter that many of the J&D versions were less than adequate... or live.
SIDE A
Batman
Do Wah Diddy Diddy
Detroit City
Eve of Destruction
1-2-3
Hang On Sloopy
SIDE B
Little Deuce Coupe
Louie, Louie
Memphis
Yesterday
Walk Right In
Everybody Loves A Clown

Good enough for the rack jobbers...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 03:54:19 PM by Steve Latshaw » Logged
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 04:59:21 PM »

<<So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.>>

I think in those days it was all about how many contemporary hits - some on the radio right now - they could put on an album cover to grab the attention of buyers.  Everybody covered everybody, especially The Beatles.  So a live album - even a fake one -was all about how it read in the bin.  

Being that it would have indeed been a "fake" live album, even though it wouldn't have been the only one of its era, could this have been considered fraudulent by a sue-happy fan of the era? Especially if it was being marketed as an actual live show from that Hawaii concert? I know many live releases including "Beach Boys Concert" have had some studio trickery involved, but I wonder just how much would have been acceptable, and how much fakery the market would bear before it could have led to some actual repercussions.
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c-man
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 10:51:02 PM »

<<So they weren't planning to use Barbara Ann, Surfin', H&V or Game of Love, which is a shame. With a Little Help from My Friends is a really strange inclusion for a fake live album with all the tape speed discrepancies on the vocals.>>

I think in those days it was all about how many contemporary hits - some on the radio right now - they could put on an album cover to grab the attention of buyers.  Everybody covered everybody, especially The Beatles.  So a live album - even a fake one -was all about how it read in the bin.  

Being that it would have indeed been a "fake" live album, even though it wouldn't have been the only one of its era, could this have been considered fraudulent by a sue-happy fan of the era? Especially if it was being marketed as an actual live show from that Hawaii concert? I know many live releases including "Beach Boys Concert" have had some studio trickery involved, but I wonder just how much would have been acceptable, and how much fakery the market would bear before it could have led to some actual repercussions.

The most anyone could reasonably sue for would be the price they paid for the album (probably under $5 at the time?). To make it worth anyone's while, and to afford attorney & court costs, a group of disgruntled fans could have maybe done a class action lawsuit. But they would have had to find a lawyer to file for them, and most lawyers would understandably decline the offer due to the slim chance of them making any profit. I'd say it would be a non-case.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 09:05:51 AM »

<<Being that it would have indeed been a "fake" live album, even though it wouldn't have been the only one of its era, could this have been considered fraudulent by a sue-happy fan of the era? Especially if it was being marketed as an actual live show from that Hawaii concert? I know many live releases including "Beach Boys Concert" have had some studio trickery involved, but I wonder just how much would have been acceptable, and how much fakery the market would bear before it could have led to some actual repercussions. >>
Those kind of nuisance suits didn't happen in those days.  And many of the live albums of the 60s suffered from the same trickery... The Rolling Stones' GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT... Jan & Dean's COMMAND PERFORMANCE... I have a Chuck Berry live album from 1963 that actually has him covering Surfin' USA... the "live" aspect is simply a loop of the audience screaming, repeated over and over again.  MAGIC BUS - THE WHO ON TOUR isn't even a live album.  BEACH BOYS CONCERT was a rarity in that only FUN FUN FUN and I GET AROUND are obviously using studio backing tracks.
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