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654163 Posts in 26146 Topics by 3721 Members - Latest Member: digitalhikes January 26, 2020, 07:37:02 PM
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Author Topic: This Whole World ~ isolated guitars recreation video  (Read 2112 times)
SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2019, 12:46:46 PM »

Very nice. There was some similar guitar play in Breakaway, but this arrangement takes that idea further.  

That's a great point.  Maybe I should do a Breakaway video!  Definitely haven't heard a good mix of that backing track though.

C-man, is there any indication who played on Breakaway?

Yep...the dueling electric lead guitars are David Cohen and Mike Anthony. There's an acoustic rhythm guitar in the background on the basic track, and that's most likely Carl. A second, more prominent acoustic rhythm guitar was overdubbed.

It never even occurred to me that there was more than one lead guitar! Any clues on who played the main overdubbed acoustic? It's a pretty unusual part, my guess wouldn't have been Carl but then I didn't even notice the subtler part he's playing underneath until now. And were the electric guitars overdubbed or live? I'm kinda confused about that listening to Unsurpassed Masters (probably not the best source but...y'know), where it sounds like the piano/guitars track was wiped out in the coda to make room for some of the backing vocals, but the electric leads are still faintly audible in the other channel containing the percussion/organ/first acoustic guitar.

David Cohen was payed for a double, so I assume the overdubbed acoustic part was him. The electric guitars were definitely live.


Nice, it's probably down to mic bleed then! Can I ask who the basses are? No, wait, I can tie this back to This Whole World and make it relevant, I promise!

I find it interesting how post-Smile Brian largely gave up on the two-bass combos throughout the Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20 sessions. Then in 1969 there's sort of a revival of it, with the upright + electric in Break Away and the Fender bass having a similar clicky tone to a few of the tracks on Pet Sounds. And This Whole World having two regular electric basses running together kinda feels like some of his 1964 arrangements. Any other examples of multiple basses making a comeback in the Sunflower era? At My Window sounds like one off the top of my head.
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c-man
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2019, 10:51:54 PM »

Here's a question on the This Whole World guitars: do we think any others were added later? I've seen some mention of Carl overdubbing a 12-string, but having scrutinised it that to me just sounds like the piano.

I thought the only guitars on the final master were part of Jerry Cole's guitar, and Carl's overdubbed 12-string.

David Cohen's part is still audible, just mixed low. I'm not hearing any extra 12-string though.

To me, that little chimey part right before the bridge (at 0:31) sounds like a 12-string.

I'm hearing it as Brian's slightly detuned piano with the bells and celeste offsetting the tone a bit.

Well, there was a later guitar overdub of some type...the original session was recorded on 8-track, with Tracks 7 and 8 both designated as electric guitars. Then, there was a transfer to 16-track, with two additional instruments added (guitar on Track 10 and piano on Track 11); the other tracks were used for vocals. Presumably, Carl added that extra guitar, since that transfer to 16-track would almost certainly have been done at a later date.
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c-man
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2019, 09:23:25 AM »

Basses on "Break Away" were Ray Pohlman and Jimmy Bond (same as on the song's flip side, "Celebrate The News"). Definitely one upright, and what sounds to me like a 6-string Dano bass (same with "Celebrate The News") - it has that bouncy, slightly grungy sound. A standard Fender bass can sound grungy if played with a pick ("Don't Worry Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Sloop John B."), but I've never really heard that "bounce" except on the lighter-gauge strings of a Dano (or Fender VI).
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2019, 01:47:35 PM »

Basses on "Break Away" were Ray Pohlman and Jimmy Bond (same as on the song's flip side, "Celebrate The News"). Definitely one upright, and what sounds to me like a 6-string Dano bass (same with "Celebrate The News") - it has that bouncy, slightly grungy sound. A standard Fender bass can sound grungy if played with a pick ("Don't Worry Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Sloop John B."), but I've never really heard that "bounce" except on the lighter-gauge strings of a Dano (or Fender VI).

Good call on it being a 6-string! It's a very bizarre track. On the one hand you've got this sort of old-fashioned, Murry-ish horn arrangement, and a mid-60s Spector feel with the bass combo, organ, acoustic guitar and castanets, then alongside that there's a vibraslap and two electric guitars going apeshit? Can't think of anything like it.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2019, 10:55:52 PM »

I keep trying to write something that adequately expressed the incredibly deep emotions I feel about studio musicians, in this context especially.  But it's not possible.

I love that Ray and Jimmy still played bass for Brian into the 70s.  I feel like Ray Pohlman is my friend, even though he's so long dead (may he rest in peace.)

The two bass thing was definitely something Brian liked that his fellow Band mates didn't quite get the hang of or understand when they produced their own stuff.  And of course, Brian was possibly the most creative user of multiple bass instruments in non-classical music, of all time.  This Whole World or Breakaway are not the best examples of this because it's just doubling.  But when he had two or even three basses or bass instruments weaving among each other, it's truly like nothing else in pop music, or really, any music.
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SBonilla
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2019, 04:30:57 AM »

I keep trying to write something that adequately expressed the incredibly deep emotions I feel about studio musicians, in this context especially.  But it's not possible.

I love that Ray and Jimmy still played bass for Brian into the 70s.  I feel like Ray Pohlman is my friend, even though he's so long dead (may he rest in peace.)

The two bass thing was definitely something Brian liked that his fellow Band mates didn't quite get the hang of or understand when they produced their own stuff.  And of course, Brian was possibly the most creative user of multiple bass instruments in non-classical music, of all time.  This Whole World or Breakaway are not the best examples of this because it's just doubling.  But when he had two or even three basses or bass instruments weaving among each other, it's truly like nothing else in pop music, or really, any music.

The great bassists and composer, Red Callender, co-wrote, and played on,  PRIMROSE LANE, the giant hit for Jerry Wallace in 1959. There are two basses on that track, standup and electric. Great bass part, btw. In addition to the bass parts, there are other elements in that song that might have been appealing to Brian -  the jazz tinged chord progression, the laid back 'feel,' the harpsichord, Plas Johnson's lovely sax work, and even the background vocals. Listen to the the bg vocals at about :20. The part is simple but it just happens to be the bgv part for This Car Of Mine.
Brian knows this record.
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JK
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2019, 07:13:25 AM »

I keep trying to write something that adequately expressed the incredibly deep emotions I feel about studio musicians, in this context especially.  But it's not possible.

I love that Ray and Jimmy still played bass for Brian into the 70s.  I feel like Ray Pohlman is my friend, even though he's so long dead (may he rest in peace.)

The two bass thing was definitely something Brian liked that his fellow Band mates didn't quite get the hang of or understand when they produced their own stuff.  And of course, Brian was possibly the most creative user of multiple bass instruments in non-classical music, of all time.  This Whole World or Breakaway are not the best examples of this because it's just doubling.  But when he had two or even three basses or bass instruments weaving among each other, it's truly like nothing else in pop music, or really, any music.

The great bassists and composer, Red Callender, co-wrote, and played on,  PRIMROSE LANE, the giant hit for Jerry Wallace in 1959. There are two basses on that track, standup and electric. Great bass part, btw. In addition to the bass parts, there are other elements in that song that might have been appealing to Brian -  the jazz tinged chord progression, the laid back 'feel,' the harpsichord, Plas Johnson's lovely sax work, and even the background vocals. Listen to the the bg vocals at about :20. The part is simple but it just happens to be the bgv part for This Car Of Mine.
Brian knows this record.

Here you go. Lovely song (another new one on me). And some heart-warming posts. Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyry6tT0QU
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"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
I'm Grass and You're a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2019, 04:25:52 AM »

Hope you find it interesting!  Thanks for watching!
Thank you for that!
That is amazing. I love the riffs. What a great sound. I would love to hear that song with that riff more prominent in the mix.
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SBonilla
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2019, 05:02:42 AM »

I keep trying to write something that adequately expressed the incredibly deep emotions I feel about studio musicians, in this context especially.  But it's not possible.

I love that Ray and Jimmy still played bass for Brian into the 70s.  I feel like Ray Pohlman is my friend, even though he's so long dead (may he rest in peace.)

The two bass thing was definitely something Brian liked that his fellow Band mates didn't quite get the hang of or understand when they produced their own stuff.  And of course, Brian was possibly the most creative user of multiple bass instruments in non-classical music, of all time.  This Whole World or Breakaway are not the best examples of this because it's just doubling.  But when he had two or even three basses or bass instruments weaving among each other, it's truly like nothing else in pop music, or really, any music.

The great bassists and composer, Red Callender, co-wrote, and played on,  PRIMROSE LANE, the giant hit for Jerry Wallace in 1959. There are two basses on that track, standup and electric. Great bass part, btw. In addition to the bass parts, there are other elements in that song that might have been appealing to Brian -  the jazz tinged chord progression, the laid back 'feel,' the harpsichord, Plas Johnson's lovely sax work, and even the background vocals. Listen to the the bg vocals at about :20. The part is simple but it just happens to be the bgv part for This Car Of Mine.
Brian knows this record.

Here you go. Lovely song (another new one on me). And some heart-warming posts. Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyry6tT0QU

Thanks for posting the link.
The 12 string on Primrose Lane is "The Animal," the guitar Phil Spector used on Then He Kissed Me.
Another interesting thing: The little descending harmonic event Brian uses in the bridge of When I Grow Up To Be A Man (at about 1:00) feels related to the bridge in Primrose Lane where Jerry sings,"and I want to walk with you..." and the "oooohs" descend underneath.
And, then, there's the harpsichord. Wink
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2019, 11:16:51 AM »

It really was such a fertile time for arrangement and orchestration, before the “rock band” line-up sidelined more creative arranging to more niche genres.

Brian was very much a part of that, despite his origins in a rock band.

Did Red ever play on a BW production?  He was a fine bassist but never seems to have shed to record for The Beach Boys. Was probably just too far down the list. 
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SBonilla
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2019, 11:31:17 AM »

It really was such a fertile time for arrangement and orchestration, before the “rock band” line-up sidelined more creative arranging to more niche genres.

Brian was very much a part of that, despite his origins in a rock band.

Did Red ever play on a BW production?  He was a fine bassist but never seems to have shed to record for The Beach Boys. Was probably just too far down the list. 
Red Callender did record Murry Wilson's  tune TABOR-INN (aka Tabarin) for Hollywood Records. It was released in '51. It's a post war small combo Rhythm 'n' Blues ballad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8gCnl5eSME
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2019, 01:17:56 PM »

Since we're talking session musicians, don't know if anyone's mentioned but percussionist Emil Richards died recently. He played cimbalom on one of the Good Vibrations sessions: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/emil-richards-dead-legendary-percussionist-la-session-player-was-87-1263412
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2019, 05:24:42 PM »

Since we're talking session musicians, don't know if anyone's mentioned but percussionist Emil Richards died recently. He played cimbalom on one of the Good Vibrations sessions: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/emil-richards-dead-legendary-percussionist-la-session-player-was-87-1263412

Yeah, another great session legend gone.  It's very sad.  I was reviewing some session credits the other day, as I do most days, and it hit me that everybody there other than Brian has died.  I wish I could have met some of them, because, as I said, I feel as though they are my friends.  And, of course, there's so much information they could pass along that Brian, whose recollections are frankly no more germane to the questions at hand than a random lemur's screams, simply cannot.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2019, 05:25:12 PM »

It really was such a fertile time for arrangement and orchestration, before the “rock band” line-up sidelined more creative arranging to more niche genres.

Brian was very much a part of that, despite his origins in a rock band.

Did Red ever play on a BW production?  He was a fine bassist but never seems to have shed to record for The Beach Boys. Was probably just too far down the list. 
Red Callender did record Murry Wilson's  tune TABOR-INN (aka Tabarin) for Hollywood Records. It was released in '51. It's a post war small combo Rhythm 'n' Blues ballad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8gCnl5eSME


That is so cool.  What a strange small world it was out there.
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c-man
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2019, 10:59:09 PM »

Wow, lately I've really been getting into live recordings from George Harrison's late 1974 North American tour, for which Emil Richards was the percussionist. I've really been digging his chimes playing, for instance a neat solo on "For You Blue".
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JK
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« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2019, 02:39:38 AM »

And, of course, there's so much information they could pass along that Brian, whose recollections are frankly no more germane to the questions at hand than a random lemur's screams, simply cannot.

LOL

This has made my day. What a great shame it's true (thinking of a certain Q&A)...

Seriously though, it is most certainly sad to see another Brian collaborator go and realize that so much information has been lost to us this way.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:23:52 AM by JK » Logged

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I'm Grass and You're a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
SBonilla
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« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2019, 05:19:45 AM »

Since we're talking session musicians, don't know if anyone's mentioned but percussionist Emil Richards died recently. He played cimbalom on one of the Good Vibrations sessions: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/emil-richards-dead-legendary-percussionist-la-session-player-was-87-1263412

I'm a fan. He did some way out stuff. Emil's  NEW SOUND ELEMENT "STONES" came out in '67.

Here's Garnet (January)from that album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRbeKbsmxA
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 05:50:59 AM by SBonilla » Logged
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