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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 717816 times)
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« Reply #4075 on: September 01, 2021, 09:36:58 AM »

Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.
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« Reply #4076 on: September 01, 2021, 09:43:26 AM »

Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Did they always play the same rare songs during the "unplugged" set on that tour as heard on the NYC recording?
It's great to hear them perform "Wonderful" a. o. but imo the electric keyboard sounds unfortunately haven't aged very well.







Do we know what if any participation Marilyn had vocally? Sounds like she is on Feel Flows backing, or am I mistaken?

I think so, too. The lead up to the chorus sounds like Carl, Brian and Marylin to me.

That'd be Carl, Diane and Marilyn.


Two out of three ain't that bad for my limited ability to pick out single voices, so I take it.  Wink Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 09:44:36 AM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #4077 on: September 01, 2021, 09:51:07 AM »

I could have sworn that Jack Rieley claimed that besides Charles Lloyd on sax and flute, that Carl and Annie were the only other two personnel on "Feel Flows." (And I can hear Brian on backing vocals on the new tracks.)
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« Reply #4078 on: September 01, 2021, 10:03:33 AM »

Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.

"Take a Load Off Your Feet" is an even more interesting setlist inclusion for those late '93 shows because the added set of "rare" songs was ostensibly for the purpose of promoting the "Good Vibrations" boxed set, yet "Take a Load...." isn't on the set!

Another interesting bit about the '93 NYC songs that have trickled out on various releases is that, when the pristine soundboard of the show surfaced many years back (after having only been rumored to exist in prior years), I had wondered if they only had a DAT recording of the "house mix." But it appears they captured the show on multi-track most likely, as the mixes of these '93 NYC tracks on these official releases are more refined and balanced.

Conversely, I'm guessing things like "This Whole World" '88 on this set, or the 1995 live "Sail on Sailor" from the MIC set, probably only exist as stereo soundboard DAT recordings.
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« Reply #4079 on: September 01, 2021, 10:08:18 AM »

Speaking of Take A Load Off Your Feet...that live track from the '93 "unplugged" set is killing me with those organ fills! It sounds like they invited Al Kooper to play organ that night and told him "just play what you played for Dylan"  LOL Smokin

I would love some more complete releases of that '93 unplugged material, that was a total curveball for the live band at that time, and there are some terrific performances to be heard from various shows on that tour. That's when those cuts were even deeper than they would seem now.


Did they always play the same rare songs during the "unplugged" set on that tour as heard on the NYC recording?
It's great to hear them perform "Wonderful" a. o. but imo the electric keyboard sounds unfortunately haven't aged very well.

There was only a short string of shows around November of 1993 when they did the full additional set. They didn't swap songs out, they just *added* a full extra set of about 15 songs, mainly to promote the "Good Vibrations" boxed set (although, as I mentioned, they ended up doing more a general set of songs that mixed rare songs and some "unplugged" selections rather than strictly only doing boxed set songs). They thought enough of this mini-tour to conduct full band rehearsals at Al's studio (a recording of the rehearsals circulates; on the extant recording Mike doesn't seem to be present). But it was a short string of shows; I'm not sure precisely how many. Looking at schedules, I'm guessing it was mostly just the 8 or 9 shows from November of 1993.

They *did* retain a few of these "deep" cuts into the 1994 setlist; I believe things like "Hushabye" and "All This Is That" stayed in for awhile.
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« Reply #4080 on: September 01, 2021, 11:58:20 AM »

Well, as stated before, I haven't got the 5 CD set because ImportCDs told me they didn't have it.  But now someone is saying they got their copy from them!?  I hope I get mine soon!

In the meantime I did receive the 4 LP set from BeachBoys.com and got to read the booklet.  A very nice read.  And lots of great pictures.  
I've got two questions, though...

1)  On page 17, a picture of the tape box has "Games Two Can Play" and "Add Some Music", and an untitled song at the end of the tape.  What song is that?   I guess only Mark, Alan, or Howie could answer that, but I thought I'd ask.

2)  On page 35, the second page of the lyrics to "Surf's Up" we get the lines for the tag...

A children's song have you listened as they play
Their song is love and the children know the way
The Father
His care is done all the children carry on

My question....  WHAT?!   I haven't listened to the a capella version of the tag but are these lyrics on there?  My guess would be no.  And it looks as if the third line "The Father" is not completed.  I'm guessing it was supposed to have as many words/syllables as the first line, sung to the same melody, and the fourth line would be sung to the same melody as the second line.

Very interesting stuff!

Also, I love that someone drew ocean waves on the tape box of "Cool, Cool Water."   Grin

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


PS --  Spoiler Alert for anyone else who wants to try...


...Here's my attempt at a finished third line...  


A children's song have you listened as they play
Their song is love and the children know the way
The Father knows someday he will be gone
His care is done all the children carry on
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 04:58:16 AM by Dan Lega » Logged
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« Reply #4081 on: September 01, 2021, 04:53:16 PM »

UK chart info. Top 10 would be nice

Also aiming for Top 10 bows are Toyah’s Posh Pop (No. 9 via Edsel) and a five-disc boxed set of The Beach Boys’ Feel Flows: The Sunflower & Surf’s Up Sessions 1969-1971 (No. 10 via UMC).
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« Reply #4082 on: September 01, 2021, 05:13:28 PM »

Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").

At any rate, formal recording may not have commenced until the "jam session," which would mean early '72. What's more important (and more encouraging to a "Mess of Help" fanatic like me) is that Mark & Alan seem to have a similar affection for the track, raising hopes that they will give us even more glimpses at its production understructure when they gear up for the CATP/Holland set (which now seems to be a 99% lock given how the response to FEEL FLOWS is proceeding).
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« Reply #4083 on: September 01, 2021, 05:33:56 PM »

99% lock is pretty confident, considering it’s The Beach Boys…
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« Reply #4084 on: September 01, 2021, 06:17:57 PM »

Not criticizing the set necessarily because it is fantastic but I wish the live selection on the Sunflower disc was just slightly different! Would have liked to see these two performances included instead of the two 15 Big Ones songs (which I know both dated back to the Sunflower sessions but still felt out of place to me).

“Cool Cool Water” TV Performance 1971
https://youtu.be/rUcDojcRiFM

“Forever” Central Park 1971
https://youtu.be/9hyp9b72jSE

Was also surprised to see a live version of “Feel Flows” wasn’t include on the Surf’s Up disc. This is the only live version of it I’ve heard but if it’s the only one that exists, I can understand it being left off the set as Carl is definitely struggling with the vocals (probably safe to say he was not sober that night). The Charles Lloyd flute solo is killer though, it’s a shame if there’s not a better performance from that period in the vaults. https://youtu.be/W1If_VGaiF0
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« Reply #4085 on: September 01, 2021, 06:49:52 PM »

99% lock is pretty confident, considering it’s The Beach Boys…

Point noted, but there's a lot of positive momentum that's gathered around this set--and with added management gravitas overseeing the bottom line (and the ongoing fault lines between factions), I'm a lot more optimistic that we'll get a CATP/Holland set next fall.
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« Reply #4086 on: September 01, 2021, 08:12:09 PM »

So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏

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« Reply #4087 on: September 01, 2021, 11:51:33 PM »

So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏



I think that's been fairly well-established for a long time in the case of Mess of Help. But he isn't on Marcella, the released version: his only appearance is a cameo in the tag that was entirely dropped from the mix.
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« Reply #4088 on: September 02, 2021, 12:03:30 AM »

Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").


There's almost no dated documentation on anything recorded for So Tough apart from the AFM contracts, which at that stage of the group's career are fairly touch and go for reliability. But with Mess of Help, Carl's recollection of the 'jam session' a few weeks earlier and players like Doug Dillard getting a mention do appear to back the Jan 31 Beatrice AFM's credibility as the date of the basic tracking session. There's nothing further, officially. All we know is that it didn't turn from Beatrice into Mess until the later sessions in April after a tour. Mike and Al spent most of January and February on a TM course in Majorca before directly flying out to the Grand Gala Du Disque, so that puts all of the vocals in April, including "she don't know". (btw, the voice at the end is Mike commenting on his own round-ing, not Al)

On the other hand, the Feb 17 AFM for Marcella, Out in the Country and Body Talk might be a case of filing paperwork to cover for tracks recorded a few months before. Out in the Country clashes a lot with Don Goldberg's memory of recording the track. The later Feb 20 sweetening session for that song does seem to check out.

In that same interview mentioned above, Carl stated that recording for the album began in mid-December. The album sleeve says the same thing. Marcella was being talked about in the press as a potential single as early as October (as 'One Arm Over My Shoulder'), so a late 1971 beginning to the recording is plausible. Badman's info was otherwise basically made up by himself.
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« Reply #4089 on: September 02, 2021, 02:29:15 AM »

1. Baby baby is a stand-out, kinda Beatle-ish. Reminds me of something John Lennon could have recorded for his Rock n roll album. Apparently it's one of Dennis's efforts. A pity they didn't make a descent recording, like Sea cruise and Got to know the woman. I'd love to know if there are more _real_ rockers like this in the can. And during what sessions was this recorded?

2. A sessionography (or whatever it's called) would be nice, and some sessions boxes... 😗 But as Mr Desper pointed out elsewhere, you cannot completely rely on session sheets/notes.

3. Guess there's some dirty/naughty stuff that was "banned" from the box (and other boxes for that matter)... 😀 We have the "moaning stuff", but I believe there's more than that... 😛

4. I've heard the Unplugged 93 recordings, excellent! But I feel sad, because it'll be another 20 years till we (eventually) get an unplugged/live box... I'll be dead by then... 😢
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« Reply #4090 on: September 02, 2021, 06:17:30 AM »

Not criticizing the set necessarily because it is fantastic but I wish the live selection on the Sunflower disc was just slightly different! Would have liked to see these two performances included instead of the two 15 Big Ones songs (which I know both dated back to the Sunflower sessions but still felt out of place to me).

“Cool Cool Water” TV Performance 1971
https://youtu.be/rUcDojcRiFM

“Forever” Central Park 1971
https://youtu.be/9hyp9b72jSE

Was also surprised to see a live version of “Feel Flows” wasn’t include on the Surf’s Up disc. This is the only live version of it I’ve heard but if it’s the only one that exists, I can understand it being left off the set as Carl is definitely struggling with the vocals (probably safe to say he was not sober that night). The Charles Lloyd flute solo is killer though, it’s a shame if there’s not a better performance from that period in the vaults. https://youtu.be/W1If_VGaiF0

There are several reasons those two TV broadcast recordings wouldn't be included on a set like this.

First, BRI doesn't own those recordings. They'd have to be licensed from the owners of the footage. I would assume one of the benefits of a set like "Feel Flows" is that it's all material owned by BRI (or Capitol/UMG), so they don't have to pay to license any recordings.

Second, I think the preference is to use live recordings where they have multi-track sources, and/or high quality stereo soundboard recordings. The sound quality on the extant recordings of those TV appearances, while not awful, would stick out on a set like "Feel Flows"; the recordings would sound thinner and mono.

I think they would go to more iffy-sounding sources for recordings if the piece in question was rare enough and indispensable.

If they wanted to start using more sketchy-sounding sources for the sake of completeness, they could also use the murky audio recording of the band's live take on "Slip on Through" from TV, or Carl's lead from 1988 or "Forever", or audience recordings of "Lookin' at Tomorrow" from the '71 or '83 tours, the live "Don't Go Near the Water" from '71, etc. I think the idea, especially on the live recordings on "Feel Flows", is not absolute completist-status, but just a presentation of some nice-sounding recordings of well-performed tracks.

And they did some nice work finagling a few of those things; I sense they had to extract "This Whole World" from 1988 from the medley they sometimes put it in on that tour, sandwiched between "California Dreamin'" and "Don't Worry Baby."
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« Reply #4091 on: September 02, 2021, 11:25:03 AM »

I wanted to stop by and post a public thank you to Jerry Schilling without whom the Feel Flows box might never have happened.

He championed the project and the music from the start, and everyone owes him a debt of gratitude for his help and support

Thanks Jerry !

Mark

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« Reply #4092 on: September 02, 2021, 11:42:52 AM »

I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary
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« Reply #4093 on: September 02, 2021, 12:33:41 PM »

I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional
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« Reply #4094 on: September 02, 2021, 12:37:07 PM »

Did anyone buy all four formats!?
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« Reply #4095 on: September 02, 2021, 01:01:56 PM »

I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.
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« Reply #4096 on: September 02, 2021, 02:47:37 PM »

So many thoughts I want to share but I don’t have a lot of time right now so I’ll keep it brief for now….

Anybody want to admit I was right about Brian being on Mess of Help and Marcella vocally? 😏



I always believed you, Billy!  3D
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« Reply #4097 on: September 02, 2021, 06:55:17 PM »

My vinyl set showed up today. Here's a little Forever for everyone to enjoy...

https://youtu.be/qIHIvT14pRA
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thetojo
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« Reply #4098 on: September 02, 2021, 08:10:47 PM »

Just curious...

Why are Marcella and You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone included?  Weren't they recorded in 1972?

Sessions for both songs commenced 1971. Plus it makes a nice teaser for what's to come in the future.

Not Mess of Help. Per Alan, their inclusion didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Okay - thanks - hadn't heard/read that Alan had said that it didn't have anything to do with when they were recorded.

Is this info below wrong?

Beatrice from Baltimore
Brian Wilson and Tandyn Almer song, recorded December 6–10, 1971 and January 31, 1972. According to Debbie Keil, a verse was "She got a hole in her stocking, she does a whole lot of rockin'. She do the shake down a Bumbles, she do the chicano rumble. Little Beatrice from Baltimore."
- from https://beachboysdb.fandom.com/wiki/Unreleased_Songs

“Beatrice from Baltimore” – A tapebox for “Beatrice from Baltimore” is in the Beach Boys' vault, though it features no vocals and eventually became, “You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone” on Carl & the Passions.
- from https://www.laweekly.com/brian-wilsons-secret-bedroom-tapes-a-track-by-track-description/

In a way, the early title / lyrics for the song explain why the song transitions abruptly from talking about the protagonist, switching to the "She don't know . . . ." lyrics, talking about a girl who has not been previously mentioned in the song.

There's good contemporaneous evidence in the form of comments from Carl, and I think Mike, to support "Beatrice" being from very early '72, and not having been started by the time '71 ended.  It may not quite be definitive, but it's convincing.

Over at the nearest faraway place, one of the more valuable threads that surfaced with info not also available here--one with many translations from Dutch media interviews (a number of them with Carl)--pinpoints a "jam session" that fleshed out "Mess of Help" (still apparently called "Beatrice" at that point) and that Carl was clearly highly enthusiastic about. That interview was from late February '72, when the band was on a short European tour before returning to LA for the second round of sessions that would culminate in the tracks for CATP. The jam session had apparently occurred shortly before the tour, so it can be probably be placed in early-mid February.

So what about those 12/6-12/10/71 dates? They get listed as "sessions" in the data at AGD's site (I call it "do-si-Doe") but it seems as though this was taken almost verbatim from Badman, a good bit of whose material has been "superseded." We don't really know the provenance of that session info, but it could be from some kind of log that doesn't discriminate between "recording sessions" and "writing sessions." We have precious little data about when songs were actually written, but one guess is that some of the tracks we are talking about here and that are part of Badman's activity log could be referring to writing sessions, and that "Beatrice" was conceived and fleshed out during that time frame. Carl is still referring to it as "Beatrice" in the Dutch interview, and the question one could ask Alan and Mark about the track/backing vocals version of "Mess of Help" is whether they have any idea when that was recorded. The finished track may well be built out of the "jam session" to which Carl refers, which would then follow up to the rewrite of the lyrics, and possibly added parts which followed in March-April. The high "fiddle" part is not prominent on the track/backing vocal version that's just appeared on FEEL FLOWS, but that could be due to Mark's remix, which brings the backing vocals way up from what was heard on the '72 release, and seems to be spiraling through a range of the more complex backing vocals in the tag, dropping out to a capella at the end, and finally isolating on Mike's goofing around with some "alternate lyrics" at the tail end of the tape (and prompting Al's tongue-in-cheek reference to "I Get Around").


There's almost no dated documentation on anything recorded for So Tough apart from the AFM contracts, which at that stage of the group's career are fairly touch and go for reliability. But with Mess of Help, Carl's recollection of the 'jam session' a few weeks earlier and players like Doug Dillard getting a mention do appear to back the Jan 31 Beatrice AFM's credibility as the date of the basic tracking session. There's nothing further, officially. All we know is that it didn't turn from Beatrice into Mess until the later sessions in April after a tour. Mike and Al spent most of January and February on a TM course in Majorca before directly flying out to the Grand Gala Du Disque, so that puts all of the vocals in April, including "she don't know". (btw, the voice at the end is Mike commenting on his own round-ing, not Al)

On the other hand, the Feb 17 AFM for Marcella, Out in the Country and Body Talk might be a case of filing paperwork to cover for tracks recorded a few months before. Out in the Country clashes a lot with Don Goldberg's memory of recording the track. The later Feb 20 sweetening session for that song does seem to check out.

In that same interview mentioned above, Carl stated that recording for the album began in mid-December. The album sleeve says the same thing. Marcella was being talked about in the press as a potential single as early as October (as 'One Arm Over My Shoulder'), so a late 1971 beginning to the recording is plausible. Badman's info was otherwise basically made up by himself.

Thanks for your contributions guys. Seems there's a bit of a pickle in the ointment here - trying to sort this out [the mixed metaphor catches the worm, don't you know!]. I think that a lack of documentation/strong evidence doesn't really mean that no earlier sessions took place. That quote from Debbie Keil is pretty specific, and yet on the version of events that now seems to prevail, the lyrics were changed before they were ever recorded (except I guess maybe at the "Jam"). Like a lot of things, maybe the truth is somewhere in between - and maybe we'll never know for sure. Maybe a writing session or demo recording happened in 1971, and has not survived. Maybe not - maybe the dates are just wrong. In any event, hopefully the next box set will shed some more light, and if not that then at least provide us with continued fascinating listening.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 08:15:52 PM by thetojo » Logged
Robbie Mac
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« Reply #4099 on: September 02, 2021, 11:46:49 PM »

I can't recall if it was Jerry who got very emotional over Sunflower in a Beach Boys documentary

Fred Vail. When he went into the radio station and asked the promoter and his old friend to play add some music to your day or whatever it was and the guy looked at him and said the beach boys aren’t hip anymore which is when Fred Val got emotional

This was in the first Brian Wilson Songwriter documentary for anyone interested. It is such a sad but powerful moment - emotional is the right word to describe that moment, but it cuts much deeper - you can really tell just how deeply that moment affected him. After all these years and he is still very broken up it. Goes to show just how much he cared about those guys and their music.

That clip was always disturbing to me. Especially when Fred goes “well, my friend is dead and the BB are still here.” Like, is Fred saying that the DJ dying was karmic punishment for not playing a new BB record on the radio in 1970?
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