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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 202828 times)
Emdeeh
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« Reply #2125 on: October 14, 2020, 05:06:54 PM »

HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 05:09:00 PM by Emdeeh » Logged
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« Reply #2126 on: October 14, 2020, 05:29:19 PM »

HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.

It's pretty damn difficult to look at many of Mike's actions and not think that the quote in in line for something he would say back then, or a general vibe he would have espoused at some point, or at least something to that effect.

I mean, no less than Sir George Martin spoke about Mike in terms of being a scared band member, and scared people want to cling to what they know as a winning formula. Not sure why anyone thinks this is some revisionist history for this DFWTF quote (or the general nature of it) to be connected to Mike's way of thinking, even if he did nevertheless deviate from the "formula" sometimes anyway.

Clearly, the ultimate formula that worked for Mike was being Brian Wilson's main collaborator; that's without any doubt a songwriting team formula that he did not want to see anyone f*ck with and a position he didn't want to lose. D'uh x10000. Yet somehow, for reasons I cannot understand, there are people who find it offbase to connect Mike to that quote or idea.  Is there one person who'd say that if DFWTF was referring to the Brian/Mike songwriting team, that Mike still wouldn't have said/implied DFWTF?  That absurd claim would imply that 1960s Mike would be fine, totally fine, with that Wilson/Love team being reduced, diminished, or ceasing to exist as the main songwriting partnership of the BBs. Sure, Mike would be fine with that.  Roll Eyes

Plus, if that DFWTF quote somehow was somehow thought of in a positive context by the majority of fans and music publications, Mike would probably be happy to claim it as his own quote or his own general idea. Look, a lot of people (myself included) have occasionally uttered the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I can GET that mindset. Doesn't mean that Mike's fears of the formula being f*cked with didn't manifest in all sorts of ugly actions/reactions that continue to this day.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 06:12:57 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
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« Reply #2127 on: October 14, 2020, 06:33:50 PM »


And even if Mike Love didn't actually say DFWTF, he absolutely thought it. But I'm thinking he actually not only said it, but had quite a bit more to say about it that we will never know about.  Old Man
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #2128 on: October 14, 2020, 06:56:09 PM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2129 on: October 14, 2020, 07:12:07 PM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Well let's just think for a moment. We have pet sounds which is largely a Brian album. Summer in Paradise which is largely a Mike solo album. What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

If we are going to talk about "appropriate" presentation of using the brand name, that's quite a rabbit hole to go down with when it comes to Mike. He has absolutely no shame with making things as Mike centric as he wants - because he can - but then wigs out if heaven forbid too much material that is centric of a different member is going to be highlighted too much.

But yes, it's entirely possible that's part of what his FF hangup is. It would still make him a tremendous hypocrite. To have these arguments when he is pushing 80, not to mention the elderly living friends of Dennis are in that same late period of their lives who might not even get to hear this music being released if it gets hung up too long... it's just inane, petty, and toxic... just let the music out there, MR. POSITIVITY, and let people enjoy it and purchase it and celebrate the entire band for crying out loud.

To agree with, apologize for, or legitimize that mindset is to really not be seeing the big picture here.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 07:46:14 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
alanjames
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« Reply #2130 on: October 14, 2020, 07:19:48 PM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Dennisís solo material total is around 25 minutes. So thereís still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brianís Back, etc
ďLove YouĒ was a Brianís solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And donít forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
Thereís songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Donít Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mikeís project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennisís 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
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« Reply #2131 on: October 14, 2020, 11:59:26 PM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Dennisís solo material total is around 25 minutes. So thereís still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brianís Back, etc
ďLove YouĒ was a Brianís solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And donít forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
Thereís songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Donít Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mikeís project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennisís 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.
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« Reply #2132 on: October 15, 2020, 12:36:07 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #2133 on: October 15, 2020, 12:37:31 AM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Dennisís solo material total is around 25 minutes. So thereís still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brianís Back, etc
ďLove YouĒ was a Brianís solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And donít forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
Thereís songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Donít Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mikeís project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennisís 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Firstly, respectfully, we can drop this "one of the principles" speak. It's obviously Mike. It's funny how that similar dancing around the subject happens so often when discussing Mike stuff. You'll see it in documentaries, etc., it's been happening for so many years.

If somehow this scenario miraculously happens, that only the Dennis songs get excised from the set, no other tampering happens, and then all of those songs get released as their own standalone release several months later, that wouldn't be the end of the world exactly.

Yet keep in mind that would put less eyes and ears on the Dennis material, AND also less eyes and ears, and less interest on the FF project as a whole. Stronger together. You know this is true. Sad but true. Plus it would be likely that at least some of the material or some of the alternate mixes might fall by the wayside and never see the light of day. That would suck.

Plus honestly, I think I speak for a lot of fans in saying that such a compromise would somewhat taint the experience of the FF project in general if all DW songs were removed due to some jealous nonsense and bile of a bitter 80 year old. Not saying I wouldn't still enjoy the music, and I'm sure I would still love the contributions of all members, but in the back of my mind it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth that Mike was such an unbelievable douche, to not only screw over his late cousin, but to diminish the legacy of the band as a whole, which the intact set could obviously greatly enhance.

It would feel a bit like watching Orson Welles' studio-butchered masterpiece "The Magnificent Ambersons", and enjoying it, yet always wondering "what if"...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 12:56:36 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #2134 on: October 15, 2020, 12:48:06 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

This is true, I think that sometimes the band might have a hard time seeing what the big deal is about certain albums, but in the case of FF, it seems to be something very different. There seems to be a roadblock by one member, Mike, aimed very specifically at a portion of the project.

More directly pertaining to your post, I think the bandmembers have started to realize over the years that there are hardcore fans for various BBs eras that they have not thought about for a while. So perhaps it's a bit of an education or an eye-opening experience for them to realize that this music which they had forgotten about is so beloved.  

Al is a particularly modest, "oh shucks" type of guy, so it makes sense that he would speak that way. The fact that he spoke previously about the FF set indicates that he knows it would really mean a lot to fans. He knows. The band knows. They are not strangers to this board, the internet in general, or to the wants and desires of money-spending, set-purchasing BBs fans.

But if there's not enough internal band enthusiasm for the project, then we should continue making noise and speaking our minds about how enthusiastic we are for the intact project to be released, and not shutting up about how gutwrenchingly terrible a decision it would be to mutilate and butcher the wonderful set that has been labored over for so long.

It would seem from the more recent series of posts from insiders that at this point the holdup is likely mainly (or maybe only) over Mike and his world famous ego, as opposed to a general lack of enthusiasm for the FF material/era by any other members of the band. Al or Brian saying "meh" isn't the cause of the holdup; Brian apparently has done extensive interviews for the box already, where he doubtlessly has touched upon the contributions of his late brothers, a subject he doesn't often tackle. I'm sure the box and its contents must mean something to him. But it wouldn't hurt to keep reminding him as well as the rest of the members of the band that it means something to us as well.

#intact #dontbutcherfeelflows
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 01:55:12 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
alanjames
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« Reply #2135 on: October 15, 2020, 05:09:50 AM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Dennisís solo material total is around 25 minutes. So thereís still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brianís Back, etc
ďLove YouĒ was a Brianís solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And donít forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
Thereís songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Donít Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mikeís project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennisís 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Yeah, I think youíre right.
If Dennis material would be removed from the set to be released as a Dennis Wilson project with all the songs and bonus material, it would be cool.
I still hope to see the songs released on FF, but a standalone release it would be great.
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« Reply #2136 on: October 15, 2020, 06:17:10 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al isn't the only one.  Bruce has gone on record saying how he didn't like Friends, thought it was too lightweight and needed to be - I'm paraphrasing here - heavier and more aggressive.  Ironic considering Bruce's lightweight contributions to Sunflower and Surf's Up - but he did do a "heavy" rock number for 20/20 along with his instrumental.
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« Reply #2137 on: October 15, 2020, 09:47:14 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.
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« Reply #2138 on: October 15, 2020, 09:50:57 AM »

HeyJude, I'm neither defending nor criticizing Mike. I'm just making the point that we got the phrase from someone who said/wrote it about Mike.

My point was that the post that evoked the "don't f**k with the formula" quote, which in turn got this latest discussion about the phrase started, was written with the knowledge that there's no confirmation of the quote. It was clearly meant to evoke/invoke a particular member vis-a-vis the current goings-on with this "Feel Flows" set.

My point was that if someone reads that post and their first reaction is to point out that the quote isn't confirmed, they're *entirely missing the point*.
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« Reply #2139 on: October 15, 2020, 10:10:39 AM »

By the way, if anybody wants to take a look at Brian Wilson's Facebook page and see the Party! photos that were just posted, a solo Party session photo of specifically just Dennis (and no other members in the picture) was chosen as the main, primary photo for that grouping.

I doubt that's an accident either. It's another subtle hint that Brian wants his late brother's music released on FF.

As if that's still a question to anybody, hopefully it's not.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 11:47:01 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #2140 on: October 15, 2020, 11:17:04 AM »

Jude, I will drop it to get the thread back on track...
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And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #2141 on: October 15, 2020, 12:23:41 PM »

Same here...

I don't have anything else to say here, other than I very dearly wish to buy this set! And I'd love to have the Dennis material included. The Dennis material needs to be released.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 02:21:19 PM by Emdeeh » Logged
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« Reply #2142 on: October 15, 2020, 02:45:18 PM »

Honestly, I'd want the Dennis material to be on a separate release, only on the condition that there would be much more of it from the period in question. But I doubt that would happen. Regardless, it's important that all of the group members embrace their brother, cousin and friend by including his work on their box set.
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Tom
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« Reply #2143 on: October 15, 2020, 04:00:57 PM »

Yeah - if it was guaranteed that the Dennis stuff would come out on a different release later on then I wouldn't mind. But it doesn't seem that likely - sadly I doubt there's that much of a consumer base for it. Maybe if Pacific Ocean Blue's popularity keeps going we could eventually get an even more extended version, with Poops as an extra bonus disc after Bambu. In any case, Feel Flows is probably the safest and best chance of this material getting released anytime in the near future - which is why it's important we campaign for it to stay on there.

Surely Brian would have opinions on this - he has nothing but good things to say about Dennis as a songwriter.
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Jay
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« Reply #2144 on: October 15, 2020, 04:16:06 PM »

Yeah - if it was guaranteed that the Dennis stuff would come out on a different release later on then I wouldn't mind. But it doesn't seem that likely - sadly I doubt there's that much of a consumer base for it. Maybe if Pacific Ocean Blue's popularity keeps going we could eventually get an even more extended version, with Poops as an extra bonus disc after Bambu. In any case, Feel Flows is probably the safest and best chance of this material getting released anytime in the near future - which is why it's important we campaign for it to stay on there.

Surely Brian would have opinions on this - he has nothing but good things to say about Dennis as a songwriter.
The time to do it would have been right after the POB/Bambu cd release. Now sadly I think the momentum is gone. The same could be said for a reunited Beach Boys. Somehow I don't see the m playing Madison Square Garden now(they had an offer to play around the time the C50 tour was ending).
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #2145 on: October 15, 2020, 05:18:24 PM »

Been thinking for a few days on this (I know...I know...thinking...dangerous, man) and I can understand why someone might object to a box set that contains an entire disc of Dennis Wilson solo stuff under the heading of "The Beach Boys".
Yes, I might actually agree with Mike Love - if, indeed, that is his objection to the set.
I think a more appropriate way to present that material would be on a stand alone Dennis Wilson cd.
I'm a big Carl fan, and I wouldn't want his solo stuff from the 80's being presented as "The Beach Boys". The other Beach Boys had nothing to do with it.
But I can just imagine it now - "Best of the Beach Boys in the 80's" comes out, and along with Kokomo, Getcha Back, California Dreamin' and Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, it includes Heaven, Hold Me, What You Do to Me, Melt Away, Love and Mercy, Looking Back with Love, and Rockin' the Man in the Boat.
 Roll Eyes

Dennisís solo material total is around 25 minutes. So thereís still 55 minutes to fill on disc.
And they already used solo material in their albums, even when Dennis was still alive: Love Surround Me, Baby Blue, Cuddle Up, Make It Good, to name a few. Even Mike gave solo material to the band: Sumahama, Brianís Back, etc
ďLove YouĒ was a Brianís solo album (he plays every instrument and sang vocals alone in some tracks) overdubbed and released by the band.
And donít forget the compilation Ten Years Harmony, with River Song in the tracklist.
Thereís songs recorded alone or in duo by some members released in the Made In California box: Sound of Free, Lady, Why They Donít Let Us Fall In Love (by Mike and Brian), etc
Summer In Paradise is a Mikeís project with limited involvement from the other members.
Dennisís 71 songs are important as a component to understand that timeframe, and some of these recording were later given to the band add overdubs and release them in the So Tough album.
I would be happy if they discovered whatever solo recordings by other members and then release it in this box or future archival projects.
But if....if....one of the principals is objecting to 25 minutes of solo material being on the box..and removing some of that would clear the way for set to be released, would we accept that?
I don't know why we couldn't have a standalone cd/download/album of Dennis solo stuff. Dennis seems to have a very strong cult following. POB is always being praised as a masterpiece...I would think a solo Dennis album/download/cd/whatever would be something his fans would really want.

Yeah, I think youíre right.
If Dennis material would be removed from the set to be released as a Dennis Wilson project with all the songs and bonus material, it would be cool.
I still hope to see the songs released on FF, but a standalone release it would be great.
Afro
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thetojo
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« Reply #2146 on: October 15, 2020, 07:47:24 PM »

Assuming that unlike the late 70s Caribou stuff, this early 70s Dennis stuff is owned by BRI and thus, no matter what, it's clearance for release requires a successful BRI vote on the question.

Ie. If not on this box set, then probably no reason to think a separate release would eventuate.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #2147 on: October 15, 2020, 08:52:13 PM »

Assuming that unlike the late 70s Caribou stuff, this early 70s Dennis stuff is owned by BRI and thus, no matter what, it's clearance for release requires a successful BRI vote on the question.

Ie. If not on this box set, then probably no reason to think a separate release would eventuate.

Also, unfortunately, there's also not necessarily a reason to think that *if* a separate release would eventuate, that it would for sure have *all* of the content that was intended for FF if FF were to be butchered up by Mike. I mean, there are many scenarios and ways that this could play out, and we're all hoping for the best, but I don't know why any real fan of the band would just get complacent and all chilled out like it's no big deal at this critical juncture.  

Unless they are somehow trying really, really hard to find a way to not pin what could happen on Mike, or if they want to preemptively reduce the heat that he'll surely get if he gets his way regarding the set.

It's not hard for me to sadly imagine a cut-up FF scenario, that would result in a reduced cultural/music history impact for both the band's legacy and Dennis' legacy (compared to what it could be). I don't know how any true BBs fan could think about this and not become royally pissed at the thought, and not be royally pissed at who'd be chiefly responsible if that were to occur. It does not compute. There may be some things that Mike gets too much heat for, which perhaps he should rightly be shielded from by well-meaning fans; this is not one of them. I only half-jokingly advocate a Save Mike From His Own Narcissism change.org petition.

We really shouldn't be happily complacent at the thought of getting some sort of reduced consolation prize here. Not only do I of course want to hear all the material as was originally intended for this set, but also I want to see my favorite band get the full (not reduced) accolades for this material that they ALL deserve.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 09:17:07 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Lonely Summer
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« Reply #2148 on: October 16, 2020, 12:20:17 AM »

I would think that if the Dennis material was set aside for a stand alone release, there would be even more of it. Why would there be less? Maybe they'll reissue POB again - this time, with Bambu and the early 70's material on bonus discs. Don't laugh. The Kinks' Lola Vs. Powerman was just reissued as a double cd back in 2014; now they are set to release a deluxe box - I've forgotten how many discs, 2 was enough for me, but obviously there is a market for this stuff. The record companies just keep rehashing the same old stuff, so why not POB? Were there quad mixes made for the album? Maybe they can do some remixes of various songs; live versions -are there any? Maybe some outtakes from the All I Want to Do sessions  Grin.
10 years from now, we can look forward to box sets of Looking Back with Love and Celebration material. How about a deluxe edition of Going Public?
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« Reply #2149 on: October 16, 2020, 06:25:52 AM »

I guess the difference is, despite the squabbling between the Davies bros., the Kinks' management clearly understands that archival releases are where it's at currently, and is free to create those without internal holdups.

Plus there's no single Beach Boys related song from this 'Feel Flows' era that comes close to being as well known as 'Lola' - especially not Dennis solo material that the layperson doesn't know exists.

It is a confusing situation tbh. All the material originally slated for this set has been mixed and mastered, even what is now possibly being cut out. It doesn't seem to make sense to never release that Dennis material which is 100% ready to go. Even if certain parties are worried said material will dilute or confuse the band's image going forward, that could easily be sidestepped by just releasing it with little fanfare as a digital only thing - they've done it before e.g. the extra Sunshine Tomorrow stuff which came several months after the main set.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 06:33:28 AM by Tom » Logged
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