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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 841518 times)
Awesoman
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« Reply #1025 on: August 07, 2020, 03:57:58 PM »

Post all you want about who you assume is holding it up, do your petitions as well.  I have been "worried" about releases by many of my favorite bands for decades and most of the time I could sound like many of you on this thread.  But I've gotten a little older and I don't see the point of worrying about it.

My reasons for "worrying" about it (highlighted in yellow):

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

I dropped by to help answer some of the questions re: the project, because there's some confusion as to whether it does exist, if it's coming out, etc.

It definitely DOES exist. It definitely IS completed. It definitely is named FEEL FLOWS.

Both Jardine and Johnston have spoken publicly about it.

Linett, Boyd, and I worked on it for 2 years.
Those two put the whole f ucking thing together.
Hours and hours and hours and hours.

As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.

It's incredible.
It forever changes the way The Beach Boys will be viewed as musical entity at the turn of the decade.
It's THAT good. It's THAT important.

It is currently NOT scheduled for release.

Ram4,

This thing nearly "died on the vine" twice. Stebbins says "it doesn't look great right now".

So while we could just sit on our hands and hope for the best, some fans want to be vocal in the hopes that their voices will be heard by whoever is holding this set up. So laugh all you want at people who have supposedly "literally gone mad" for spending probably 30 minutes a day writing on a Beach Boys message board. But perhaps you could understand that HeyJude is passionate about this release because people who he has a lot of respect for shared their worry about the future of this set.

You mentioned that you've "gotten a little older" and thus you "don't see the point of worrying about it." - since you've already had that revelation, perhaps when you get even older you'll realize the pointlessness of wasting your time worrying and posting about how other people post on fan-forums.

And I'll end by quoting Century Deprived, as he perfectly put into words what I and others have been thinking:

If not for the dedicated acts of "passionate" fans, many great strides in the history of this band would never have happened.

The Wondermints were fanboys, and if it wasn't for that passion that Darian had, BWPS would never have been released, the 2011 reconstructed Smile wouldn't exist. There's no way that anybody can say that a lackadaisical or passive attitude across the board with every fan is actually a *good* thing. It doesn't mean everyone needs to sit around fretting about stuff, but it does mean that the extraordinary actions of some fans can sometimes make a difference.

Just like the extraordinary actions of Mark and Alan with all the recent catalog dumps. And Jon Stebbins. And countless other people who I am unintentionally omitting, who over the years have really busted their butts to make things happen. Behind the scenes, silent heroes. We all owe them an enormous debt of gratitude.

If there's even a chance of fans helping something get released, why mock it? The Wondermints example already proves it's theoretically possible and has happened before with this band. Passionate fandom eventually leading to better catalog releases, thus BBs material treated with the dignity that it deserves.

So yeah, a little empathy towards people who are more passionate about it could go a long way.  Amazing that this even needs to be said, it should be common courtesy between well-meaning fans.

Is it really a matter of empathy?  In all fairness Ram4's initial comment was pretty benign, yet several folks jumped all over him for taking a casual approach to it.  A tad bit ridiculous honestly.  Pretty sure we all want this thing to get a release and we'd all be disappointed if it doesn't happen.  That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:58:28 PM by Awesoman » Logged

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« Reply #1026 on: August 07, 2020, 04:03:42 PM »

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?
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« Reply #1027 on: August 07, 2020, 04:22:01 PM »

Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 04:25:03 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #1028 on: August 07, 2020, 04:36:22 PM »

Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.

Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

I've read both Howie and Jon's comments and believe them at face value that there are in-house problems that may put this project in jeopardy.  That said, I'm not interested in filling the blanks with assumptions and speculation even if it seems obviously true.  This project was never even officially announced in the first place and that leaves a lot of room for ambiguity over what is actually going on.  I just hope that not only does it see a release, but does so in the way that it was intended to be released.  
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 04:39:22 PM by Awesoman » Logged

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« Reply #1029 on: August 07, 2020, 04:41:25 PM »

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

People who care have been reading it and also paying attention to the real deal in terms of information and fact. Look at the view count on this topic.

Based on previous experiences, though, who knows what kind of garbage is being spread around other fan communities. And again from previous experiences, some will either have the facts laid out in front of them and choose to either ignore them or not accept them, or will believe less than impeccable sources spreading false info or gossip via whatever private messaging or instant messenger platform is available and hiding behind that.

The things people choose to believe over the facts never ceases to amaze me, especially with this band and elements of the fan base.
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« Reply #1030 on: August 07, 2020, 04:56:21 PM »

The bottom line is that the release of the greatest material in this band's catalog tends to unfortunately be a very fragile thing, which historically teeters on not being released at all. Because that is a simple fact, not something that is made up, but an actual matter of historical record, I don't see how anyone can say it's alarmist to worry that this stuff may not come out at all.

Look what happened with smile in 1966, look what happened with all the other times that music from smile was going to be released and wasn't. Again and again it goes back to the Jack Rieley quote. It's weird in a manner that a few other bands can touch the weirdness factor of. But dammit we are fans of this band and we love the music and will tolerate the weirdness as long as the music comes out.

This box is undoubtedly the cream of the crop, some of the best of the band has to offer in terms of unreleased material.  Due to many political factors, and usually elements of the same type of issue, the very best that this band has to offer tends to repeatedly be in jeopardy, in a way that boggles the mind. The fact that this material seems to continue that tradition perhaps I shouldn't be surprising, but it should be alarming nonetheless.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 04:57:20 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1031 on: August 07, 2020, 05:01:57 PM »

The bottom line is that the release of the greatest material in this band's catalog tends to unfortunately be a very fragile thing, which historically teeters on not being released at all. Because that is a simple fact, not something that is made up, but an actual matter of historical record, I don't see how anyone can say it's alarmist to worry that this stuff may not come out at all.

Look what happened with smile in 1966, look what happened with all the other times that music from smile was going to be released and wasn't. Again and again it goes back to the Jack Rieley quote. It's weird in a manner that a few other bands can touch the weirdness factor of. But dammit we are fans of this band and we love the music and will tolerate the weirdness as long as the music comes out.

This box is undoubtedly the cream of the crop, some of the best of the band has to offer in terms of unreleased material.  Due to many political factors, and usually elements of the same type of issue, the very best that this band has to offer tends to repeatedly be in jeopardy, in a way that boggles the mind. The fact that this material seems to continue that tradition perhaps I shouldn't be surprising, but it should be alarming nonetheless.


Basically agreed, however I would point out that a lot of unreleased material has seen the light of day especially with albums such as Endless Harmony, Hawthorne, CA the four big box sets as well as some of the digital stuff they've put out in the last few years.  Of course it's reasonable to be concerned over this project and it would be surely disappointing if it doesn't come out, but it's also reasonable to hold some faith that this release will ultimately find its way to the fans. 
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« Reply #1032 on: August 07, 2020, 05:39:18 PM »

Plus, what happened to the new version of "add some music to your day" that was going to be a collaboration between the children of the bandmates as well as contributions by the bandmates themselves?

There's no way that that wouldn't have been some sort of a tie in with the set.

Something is really weird with this whole picture. They were way too close and too far along for this to all go to nothing and be squandered.

I can PERSONALLY guarantee you that whatever "tease" ESQ was hawking has absolutely nothing to do with the project we've been working on for the past few years.  

This is an entirely different level/pay grade than that.

I'm pretty sure the "tease" ESQ was talking about was the 'Add Some Music' song. I could be wrong.

An honest question. Does anyone actually read this thread?

Given the amount of times we've had to repost Howie and Jon's posts it doesn't seem that anyone does. I really wish we could pin those posts to the top of every page.

That said, considering the rather vague and inconclusive statements that have been made from the insiders, do we even know for sure what the status is of this box set and exactly what factors may or may not be holding it up?  I see mostly speculation here.  Let's be a bit more objective and rational about it, shall we?

Howie states in the post you quoted that "It is currently NOT scheduled for release." meaning, the status is there is currently no status.

And Stebbins literally states in the post you quoted that "But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it." You can't get much clearer than that without straight up saying that this thing is dead because one or two people in the band are annoyed by something trivial about the set.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I don't see these statements being vague at all and I'm kinda flabbergasted that people seem to think these statements are vague. Keep in mind why they probably seem vague: As Stebbins says "[Howie] can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way."

Thus Stebbins basically drew it out in crayon without burning his own bridges. I don't get how the picture can get any more clearer when you consider all of this.

Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

I've read both Howie and Jon's comments and believe them at face value that there are in-house problems that may put this project in jeopardy.  That said, I'm not interested in filling the blanks with assumptions and speculation even if it seems obviously true.  This project was never even officially announced in the first place and that leaves a lot of room for ambiguity over what is actually going on.  I just hope that not only does it see a release, but does so in the way that it was intended to be released.  

The status of the project is it’s not scheduled for release. Are you looking for words like cancelled, postponed, etc? I don’t think that matters much because if it’s not scheduled for release within the next 1-2 months, it will not be released - at least not in its current form.

Who is holding it up? The Beach Boys are holding it up. Probably just one member, possibly two.

Why is there a holdup? Because The Beach Boys are not signing off on the set. Again, that has been clarified.

Why does it matter if the word “cancelled” is used? The result is the same. If they don’t get it together very soon - and by all accounts that is not happening - there is no Feel Flows. There might be some replacement or some plans to change things around, but that will also inevitably come with compromises that change what it is.

Main point: there is really no mystery here, other than the exact details of why members of the group don’t want this released, which members they are, and what might happen next to potentially change things.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 05:45:41 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #1033 on: August 07, 2020, 07:07:15 PM »

Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.
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« Reply #1034 on: August 07, 2020, 08:15:18 PM »

Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.

Howie laid out the facts but did not elaborate.
Jon filled in the blanks and explicitly called out some things because people here still seemed to be scratching their heads about what was said in no uncertain terms.
Some people are still scratching their heads, which I don’t get at all.
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« Reply #1035 on: August 07, 2020, 11:04:08 PM »

I was really excited by Howie's comment when he posted it. It took Stebbins' comment to alert me to the subtext of it, which I can now see very clearly.
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« Reply #1036 on: August 08, 2020, 12:29:08 AM »

.
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« Reply #1037 on: August 08, 2020, 01:07:49 AM »

On July 13th Howie acknowledged that the set was being held up. So that right there confirmed to us that something was indeed wrong (and given that Bruce said this thing was supposed to come out in February 2020 should’ve already rang some alarm bells).

On July 27th Howie said “I wish you all had it in your ears.” - couple that with the July 13th news and it’s not looking good. I’m pretty sure a lot of this flew over my head as well.

Then July 29th he spelled it out as best he could without jeopardizing himself. Then Jon posted and made things very clear.

@DonnyL, thanks for your posts - said everything perfectly I was failing to convey.
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« Reply #1038 on: August 08, 2020, 02:12:42 AM »

.
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« Reply #1039 on: August 08, 2020, 02:46:03 AM »

I’m really not trying to be picky when I say this, so I hope I don’t come across that way, but it was nearly a month (not 10 days) that Howie went from saying “upcoming” and “Cannot wait” (June 19) to acknowledging that the boxset was being held up (July 13). And it was about a month and a half from the time he made the “upcoming” comment to the point when he said this set was currently not scheduled for release (July 29). And not that the duration of time matters much, but a month (or a month and a half) is a good chunk of time for either something to fall apart or give one the realization that the problems you thought would be solved are not being solved. Thus I don’t think the change was as abrupt as you’re thinking. Again, I don’t think the duration of time matters much but I wanted to clear that up.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 02:48:09 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #1040 on: August 08, 2020, 03:05:01 AM »

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« Reply #1041 on: August 08, 2020, 03:19:05 AM »

Well both months are four letters and start with “J”’ so it’s understandable.
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« Reply #1042 on: August 08, 2020, 06:32:01 AM »

African Americans joining the band.

*Africans
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« Reply #1043 on: August 08, 2020, 07:43:16 AM »

African Americans joining the band.

*Africans

Jeesh, thanks. As I was writing it I even consciously thought about them coming from South Africa.
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« Reply #1044 on: August 09, 2020, 10:04:40 PM »

One question. Come December 31st, if recordings previously unreleased have not been released by the stroke of midnight, that will fall into public domain in the EU. There will be some sort of copyright extension required whether the band members want it or not, correct?
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« Reply #1045 on: August 10, 2020, 08:25:57 AM »

One question. Come December 31st, if recordings previously unreleased have not been released by the stroke of midnight, that will fall into public domain in the EU. There will be some sort of copyright extension required whether the band members want it or not, correct?

I posted an answer to this several times in previous posts/pages.

The potential nature of a potential partial digital dump of material at the end of the year that is caused by the full set's delay is a big part of why we're saying we need to advocate for releasing this set now.
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« Reply #1046 on: August 10, 2020, 08:42:56 AM »

Not being argumentative, just asking, but it seems like we're taking Stebbins' quote as inside knowledge, but to me it came across more like speculation based on his knowledge of the band's history (which is obviously extensive). Happy to be wrong on this, just thought it was worth noting that his post doesn't specifically say he *knows* definitively that this is what's happening.

Jon wouldn't be speaking to any of this unless he knew enough to speak on it from a knowledgeable point of view.

For that matter, for what it's worth since a few people seem to be questioning Jon Stebbins, maybe even doubting Howie Edelson or just choosing to ignore what he wrote, and not even mentioning the thousand posts I've made in this thread, I can speak for myself that the gazillion things *I've* posted in this thread are not based simply on what has been posted on this thread by insiders.

In this particular instance, and I'm not sure why I need to say this so bluntly, I'm working with other specific information from insiders that hasn't been posted here.

If we're going to have some tough/straight talk here, for all the sarcastic comments over the years about "Beach Boys fans being as dysfunctional as the band" (which I think we all agree is sometimes true, and probably a result both of the band's fault and our own faults), I have to say that the myriad (even if minority) of Beach Boys fans who still either can't understand or refuse to acknowledge the obvious subtext of what insiders and those who have spoken to insiders are saying about this set, this is part of the reason BB fans can't have nice things.

I get it, some fans are more seasoned and informed about the band's history and the backroom politics, and some are more familiar with the record industry, etc. Some folks are more cynical or jaded than others. But I've rarely seen a fan base where, for whatever reason, whether it be just personality tics, or some weird personal ethos/politics/train of thought, there is a small but noticeable subset of fans who *absolutely refuse* to acknowledge very, very obvious things about this band and about events surrounding this band. It's like the fans who think when Foskett jumped from Brian to Mike's band in 2014 that *zero* politics were at play and it was just a normal workplace change. Or the fans that think the 2012 reunion ended because of an e-mail Melinda wrote. If one wants to be completely optimistic to the point of being oblivious to this degree, that is obviously their right. But then it becomes problematic when you burst into a discussion (setting aside what appears to be a case of some folks simply not reading the full thread and asserting or asking things that have been answered numerous times) with this level of incredulity.

If you read the posts from Howie and Jon (and others including myself), and your reaction is *still* to just sit back and fold your arms and say "Well, I dunno. Maybe there's something going on, but maybe everything is fine and going according to plan. Why are people so worked up and worried?", then that's going to be met with reactions like what Jon mentioned, pointing out why it seems nuts that some fans are still stumbling around confused and asserting 27 optimistic scenarios that ignore common sense, ignore this band's history, and ignore the specific things people who *worked on this set* are saying.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 12:10:22 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #1047 on: August 10, 2020, 08:51:14 AM »

Ok I'll ask a few questions here:

What is the current status of the project?  We don't know.  (Other than it isn't currently scheduled for release)
Who is holding up the potential release of the project?  We don't know.
What are the contentions as to why there is a holdup?  We don't know.
Has this been cancelled completely or is there a push to get it released?  We don't know.

What is the current status of the project? We absolutely know, and it's been stated numerous times. It has been completed (compiled, mixed, mastered, and artwork/packaging prepped). It is currently not on the release schedule. Other than the semantics of "postponed vs. canceled", this all seems pretty clear. It's a project that's clearly in jeopardy. If it was canceled, nobody would be trying to rally support for a dead project. If it was going according to normal plan, nobody would be rallying fans/support.

Who is holding up the potential release? This has not been disclosed. And it doesn't matter. I've said ten thousand times now that all band members and associates (especially band members) should be told this set should be released. That's the easiest thing to do.

What are the contentions as to why there is a hold up? This is kind of the same question as the previous. The specifics haven't been disclosed. You've been told what *aren't* the reasons (it's not COVID, it's not packaging, it's not the content of the set). As I've also said many times, the reasons for the hold up are things we can't change. Rather than making anybody essentially *disbelieve* their own reason for stalling the set, the only course right now is to advocate for the set and make it so that *outweighs* those other reasons we can't change.

Is this canceled, or is there a push to release it? This has also clearly been answered. It's not officially canceled (again, nobody would be trying to get an actual dead project released). And there IS a push to release it. That push is THIS THREAD, and fans in general talking about it and advocating.
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« Reply #1048 on: August 10, 2020, 09:56:45 AM »

To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???
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« Reply #1049 on: August 10, 2020, 12:09:25 PM »

To summarize:

The Feel Flows set is completed and is releasable at this point.  That is a certainty.

Something is holding the release of this set up, and we don’t actually know for certain what that “something” is.

The only thing anyone can do if they want this set released in its current, completed form, is to contact anyone connected with the band and voice their eagerness to purchase this set.

Is that about right???

Yes, and we can also let them know right here on this board that we want it. That's a big part too. More discussion of how much we want the set, and perhaps also pointing out the foolhardy proposition of *not* releasing the set, and then discussing why this set would be so amazing.

No histrionics, no harassment, no end of the world. Just passionate advocating.
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