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663075 Posts in 26574 Topics by 3814 Members - Latest Member: Frankyfasthands October 19, 2020, 07:31:37 PM
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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 160462 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #1650 on: September 18, 2020, 12:04:31 PM »

I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introducted in this thread.

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If the only function of this thread is to rally to get the thing released, as some seem to be suggesting.

I say we discuss it all in this thread - unfiltered. That's what makes these discussions engaging. I don't want censorship or policing of the thread.

There's no censorship here. And "policing of threads" is up to the moderators/owners of a board. Threads get split (and combined) ALL THE TIME.

I've said numerous times now that the streaming/industry issue is interesting and worth discussing. It hurts NOTHING and NO ONE to put that all in a separate thread. It actually focuses and enhances *both* threads/discussions. If *that's* not good enough for you, then you're the one being difficult.

The problem with burning time in this thread talking about this fetish of obsessing about the streaming debate is that it ends up EXACTLY LIKE THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. We end up talking about what we're talking about, and then we talk about *that*, and then we talk about whether we should be talking about talking about something.

I would implore the mods to have a separate thread for the streaming vs. purchase debate (a thread which I'll be happy to participate in!), and direct folks here to that thread.
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« Reply #1651 on: September 18, 2020, 12:07:04 PM »

The conversation regarding Alan Boyd's comments surrounding the 1968 set are relevant to this discussion IMO. And I hope we can discuss these things with nuance. I would even argue the "GET FEEL FLOWS RELEASED" petition-type/rallying cry is the topic that should be in it's own thread. I was under the impression this thread was discussion about the FF box in general. Some are narrowing in on a very particular aspect of the conversation; others are introducing broader concepts and discussing them.

If you would argue that the topic about ways to help release Feel Flows in the thread titled Feel Flows should have its own thread, then certainly you can see the logic in moving a topic about streaming archival releases to another thread?

When this thread was created we were under the impression that we would actually be getting the set. At the moment, per Jon Stebbins ("It's not looking great") to Howie's most recent ""if" the project gets going", we know that there is a good chance this set may not come out at all. Thus at the moment I think the more pressing topic very much related to the topic Feel Flows is the actual release of Feel Flows. Not some hypothetical that involves Feel Flows somehow mostly getting streamed and thus possibly extinguishing a lavish boxset for the 1976 era (which, hate to say, if SS/WildHoney/Friends/2020 didn't get lavish boxsets I highly doubt that Love You will either).

Again,

Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.

I personally think all of the FF stuff should stay here - it's a more engaging, long winding strange trip that way. I'm saying if one is to argue keeping things on-topic - and that topic is rallying for the release - then THAT should be separated out.

What I'm saying is that this is the catch-all FF thread. And if someone wants to narrow that down - branch that one out. Rather than telling others to branch out relevant sub-topics in the catch-all thread.
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« Reply #1652 on: September 18, 2020, 12:08:15 PM »


Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.
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« Reply #1653 on: September 18, 2020, 12:09:51 PM »

The issue of what artists make via streaming and whether streaming is "supporting" the artist does actually still have NOTHING to do with THIS PARTICULAR case with the issue of the current non-release of "Feel Flows."

The preparation and planning for "Feel Flows" was not made in a vacuum. It was prepared for release within all of the context of the current music business/industry.

Further, as I've said a MILLION times now, those industry factors have NOTHING to do with the delays on "Feel Flows." The issues regarding the hold up on "Feel Flows" are totally separate internal issues.

How streaming impacts the industry and artists is a real topic, as is the usefulness or lack thereof of singling out individual fans for legally streaming music uploaded by the labels, but all of that should have a *separate* thread. There are many, many issues and ills befalling the music industry, but talking about that instead of lobbying for a set that WASN'T and ISN'T a victim of those industry issues is not helping anything.

In *this* thread, it is 100% distracting from the goal of lobbying and telling the band and all parties that we want this set. If the hang up behind the scenes had ANYTHING to do with issues of the eroding market for purchashing vs. streaming, I'd say so. That is NOT the case here.

Any people out there that would *not* want the "Feel Flows" set's non-release to be discussed would love for the topic here to shift to haranguing *individual* fans for streaming music.

So this thread can only discuss the non-release of Feel Flows? And cannot include other relevant conversations and ideas? Such as Feel Flows being a copyright-oriented project, and the post from Alan Boyd about supporting such releases by purchasing vs. streaming? And how this may relate to future releases - which does in fact include Feel Flows?

I'm not the moderator, so I can't answer that. If "Feel Flows" were announced for release, then the question of HOW to purchase it or listen to it would seem more worth discussing *right now*. But right now we're trying to convince them to release the set, so getting bogged down in pages of trying to guilt one or two fans for streaming music seems counterproductive.

The stuff you're talking about isn't any more germane to "Feel Flows" than the myriad of other music industry issues.

Discussing purchasing vs. streaming is an interesting topic (I have plenty of thoughts myself), so regardless of what's "allowed", I think it would make sense to start another thread, because right now we're talking about THAT instead of talking about why the set should be released.

It's ridiculous in my view to let a few people's fixation on this "streaming isn't supporting the artists" issues bog down a thread that really needs to focus on lobbying for the release of the set.

Well you keep moving the target.

I'm talking about Alan Boyd's post -

And I ask, why? Why are we discussing a years-old post in relation to a boxed set that is *not* imperiled in any way because of the issues raised in that old post? I'm not saying you *can't* discuss anything, I'm asking why?

If this set somehow ended up raising that tangential issue, which in turn raised (in your mind anyway) the topic of streaming vs. downloading and music industry economics, then I also ask, why is there resistance to starting a separate thread about it? What is *that* "conspiracy theory" all about?
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« Reply #1654 on: September 18, 2020, 12:12:41 PM »

I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introducted in this thread.

Also if Mike Love is the holdup - all the posts about how terrible Mike Love is and how wrong his decision is are certainly not gonna help him change his mind and sign off on the release. If you wanna talk about shooting yourself in the foot. If the only function of this thread is to rally to get the thing released, as some seem to be suggesting.

I say we discuss it all in this thread - unfiltered. That's what makes these discussions engaging. I don't want censorship or policing of the thread.

There's no censorship here. And "policing of threads" is up to the moderators/owners of a board. Threads get split (and combined) ALL THE TIME.

I've said numerous times now that the streaming/industry issue is interesting and worth discussing. It hurts NOTHING and NO ONE to put that all in a separate thread. It actually focuses and enhances *both* threads/discussions. If *that's* not good enough for you, then you're the one being difficult.

The problem with burning time in this thread talking about this fetish of obsessing about the streaming debate is that it ends up EXACTLY LIKE THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. We end up talking about what we're talking about, and then we talk about *that*, and then we talk about whether we should be talking about talking about something.

I would implore the mods to have a separate thread for the streaming vs. purchase debate (a thread which I'll be happy to participate in!), and direct folks here to that thread.

Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW
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« Reply #1655 on: September 18, 2020, 12:13:14 PM »

Perhaps the topic does deserve its own thread - mostly because it's a big enough topic to warrant it's own thread, but also because regardless of the hypothetical connection the current topic has with Feel Flows, it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about the possible sales of a boxset that isn't even currently scheduled to be on sale at all.

EXACTLY. For f*ck's sake man, we've already wasted *pages* talking about how to talk about talking about it.

What could be on a 1972/1973 set is also an interesting topic, is also not technically "totally off-topic", and could theoretically be impacted by "Feel Flows" if it's released. But I wouldn't advocate against moving *that* topic to another thread either.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 01:23:18 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #1656 on: September 18, 2020, 12:19:23 PM »

Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187
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« Reply #1657 on: September 18, 2020, 12:25:48 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.
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« Reply #1658 on: September 18, 2020, 12:27:42 PM »

Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.
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« Reply #1659 on: September 18, 2020, 12:28:59 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.
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« Reply #1660 on: September 18, 2020, 12:29:03 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.
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« Reply #1661 on: September 18, 2020, 12:31:35 PM »

I personally think all of the FF stuff should stay here - it's a more engaging, long winding strange trip that way. I'm saying if one is to argue keeping things on-topic - and that topic is rallying for the release - then THAT should be separated out.

What I'm saying is that this is the catch-all FF thread. And if someone wants to narrow that down - branch that one out. Rather than telling others to branch out relevant sub-topics in the catch-all thread.

Our point is that this thread is confusing enough as it is. There are people who literally come here every day who ask questions that have been answered a thousand times, answered both by insiders and the knowledgable members of this forum. How much more confusing is it going to be for people to slog through this thread if now we're adding some hypothetical streaming problem to the mix?

This thread was originally about information regarding the Feel Flows set. We then found out information that the prospect of Feel Flows being released didn't look good. Thus the thread morphed from "lets talk about Feel Flows" to "we won't have anything to talk about unless this set gets released!" - which is completely logical.

If anything, I too am interested in the topic of streaming, DonnyL, but I also don't want any of Howie's posts getting lost in the mire. I don't want people getting more confused and asking twice as many questions because they can't easily find an answer to a question that actually directly relates to the Feel Flows set that is buried behind pages of a hypothetical streaming debate/arguing about whether or not that topic belongs in the thread.

Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you.

Just a hunch, I'm guessing and would bet that HeyJude's source actually 100% knows what is going on.
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« Reply #1662 on: September 18, 2020, 12:32:02 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.

OK got it. Sorry to have misunderstood you. Anyway, it's unfortunate there's arguments here because ultimately I would hope we just all want a single goal of getting this music out. There's no perfect way to achieve proper communication that works for everybody in the world the message boards I suppose.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 12:34:58 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1663 on: September 18, 2020, 12:33:30 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.

Please stop with the references to old posters I have no affiliation or interaction with, or even familiarity with.

Even if it is, so what if it's cart before the horse? Why can't that be discussed? Why all the talk about what should and should not be discussed in this thread? Really bizarre. Again, if your agenda is to soley have a thread that is rallying for FF, *that* is what should be separate. Let us discuss whatever as it relates to FF here. seriously
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« Reply #1664 on: September 18, 2020, 12:36:33 PM »

Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.

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« Reply #1665 on: September 18, 2020, 12:36:38 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

As I said before, it's cart-before-the-horse stuff to discuss what will happen with "Feel Flows" once it's released. And *that* is the perfect reason to start another thread to talk about it (and to talk about streaming in general). To fixate on the streaming issue *right now and in this thread* is veering into "filledeplage" levels of ignoring the main thrust of the discussion to fixate on something else.

Please stop with the references to old posters I have no affiliation or interaction with, or even familiarity with.

Even if it is, so what if it's cart before the horse? Why can't that be discussed? Why all the talk about what should and should not be discussed in this thread? Really bizarre. Again, if your agenda is to soley have a thread that is rallying for FF, *that* is what should be separate. Let us discuss whatever as it relates to FF here. seriously

Your topic isn't limited to Feel Flows though. It encompasses a vast swath of archival material still in vaults. If anything, the topic of getting Feel Flows released does belong in a topic titled Feel Flows and the topic of streaming as it relates to FFs and subsequent archival releases should have it's own thread because it's not limited to FFs.
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« Reply #1666 on: September 18, 2020, 12:38:38 PM »


Streaming vs purchasing as it relates to archive releases, and as it relates to Feel Flows. It's not that riveting of a topic. It's a tangent, like many in this thread. Still on topic. And all this talk is because you guys are coming in saying what we should be talking about instead of just letting people talk about it. Call it policing, call it whatever you want. Posters respect you as you seem to have some kind of lead on inside info (some of which contradicts information I have heard elsewhere), so they are listening and responding to you. I say LET THE FEEL FLOWS THREAD FLOW FREELY AND LET US FEEL HOWEVER IT IS WE WANT TO FLOW

If somebody on the inside, whose word you fully trusted and believed to be accurate, came on here to state unequivocally that streaming is a non-issue, would that change your mind in wanting to discuss it in this thread? I truly don't mean to be annoying or pestering, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from here.

What are you talking about? I never said that I think streaming is an issue related to the holdup of FF. That is being misrepresented, though it's quite clear why you might feel that way, as several posters are trying to re-frame what I wrote to suggest that.

Okay, maybe I can clean this up right now so we can move on.

Clearly people *thought* you were saying the streaming issue was related to the hold-up on "Feel Flows" because it otherwise seems relatively random and off-topic to re-litigate a years-old post about streaming or downloading BB releases, and it also seems relatively off-topic to bust someone's balls when they admit they stream material through official channels.

I think "if you think streaming supports artists, then you're wrong" is PRETTY DARN OFF-TOPIC, and also the *perfect* entry point for a new thread to discuss the topic.

Subsequently, it's clear the issue actually is that you disagree about *what* this thread is or should be about.

The interesting thing about message boards is that an easy solution to this is to start a separate thread and then it *all* can be discussed. Nobody's hurt by two threads. Conversely, it is not helping to clog *this* thread up with these semantics debates.
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« Reply #1667 on: September 18, 2020, 12:43:01 PM »

To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"
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« Reply #1668 on: September 18, 2020, 12:46:48 PM »

Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.



okay NOW I WILL GO OFF TOPIC, and also simply GO OFF:

Please quote instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate interpretations:

"I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introduced in this thread."

There is nothing "insulting" nor "uncalled for" in my comments. I was simply stating that I'm trying to discuss Boyd's points (which I feel are relevant to this discussion overall) there without bringing in all the dirt of the past, and others probably don't want to discuss this because of all the political baggage that comes with the way the topic was introduced here. This was an innocent remark, not a jab.

You're a mod, and you need to do better and remain unbiased, not misrepresent posts. I am not in cahoots with AGD or filledpage or whoever these people are. I don't even get along with AGD.
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« Reply #1669 on: September 18, 2020, 12:51:34 PM »

To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"

I gotta say, this is definitely the most bizarre and entertaining music "release" I've witnessed. I can't wait to see how we'll all react when/if the tracklist becomes available. I'm almost hoping they do stream it, because I remember I had to wait 3 days for MiC to be shipped to my door after it was released. There was so much buzz and talk about the different tracks and I didn't participate because I was waiting to be surprised by the set. So it was 3 long days of waiting.

But anyways, I will be ordering the boxset the second it's available to order, but I would love to hear it when it drops at 12:01 AM whatever day it's released digitally.
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« Reply #1670 on: September 18, 2020, 12:58:40 PM »

I say we all make a video collage purporting to be from the future, of fans opening their Feel Flows boxset and posting the "unwrapping" on Youtube, as fans often do with box sets. And then we see the joy on their faces, the joy on their parents and gray-haired grandparents' faces upon listening to the music, and take a kill them with kindness approach to whoever is behind this ridiculous holdup. I'm only half-kidding on this.

Or what would the band do if someone who was legitimately unfortunately in poor health and perhaps not long for this world made a Youtube video plea for the FF music to be released while they are still living? Something like that could go viral. Would the band just ignore it? I can guarantee there are elderly BBs fans and superfans, or other folks who aren't doing well, for whom this set would be a shot in the arm for happiness.

Finally, what about JOHN STAMOS, the superfan of the song FOREVER?? Where is he in this equation? Wouldn't he want alternate versions of this song released? Then again, he's in the back pocket of someone. Hmm...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 01:00:21 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1671 on: September 18, 2020, 01:00:22 PM »

To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Things could have been so much easier, and so much better.

That would be one thing I'd be pitching to this band: "Fans are excited about this set, and they don't even know everything that's on it. If they knew, they'd be even MORE excited!"

I gotta say, this is definitely the most bizarre and entertaining music "release" I've witnessed. I can't wait to see how we'll all react when/if the tracklist becomes available. I'm almost hoping they do stream it, because I remember I had to wait 3 days for MiC to be shipped to my door after it was released. There was so much buzz and talk about the different tracks and I didn't participate because I was waiting to be surprised by the set. So it was 3 long days of waiting.

But anyways, I will be ordering the boxset the second it's available to order, but I would love to hear it when it drops at 12:01 AM whatever day it's released digitally.

I have to say, this is a relatively unique situation vis-a-vis archival releases for the band.

While we've lamented in the past what hasn't been released, or what *could* be released, etc., they haven't often fully prepped a huge boxed set only to not release it.

Even other seemingly "canceled" projects like theoretical late 80s/early 90s Smile/GV boxed sets did not get to the stage of being fully compiled, mixed, mastered, and artwork prepped and ready to go.

Also, part of the subtext of what's going on now that one should consider is that how and why we know about this set should also tell everyone that is a unique situation.

Believe me, I've heard about other projects over the years that have been *pitched* to the band only to be ignored or shot down. I've heard of preliminary work being done to compile things, only for plans to change. But rarely if ever has there been a case where an amazing set (not hyperbolic to wonder if it's *the* greatest BB archival release) is like one step from home plate only to be halted.
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« Reply #1672 on: September 18, 2020, 01:03:04 PM »

Finally, what about JOHN STAMOS, the superfan of the song FOREVER?? Where is he in this equation? Wouldn't he want alternate versions of this song released? Then again, he's in the back pocket of someone. Hmm...

I've been saying for years that Stamos would be a thousand times more useful and effective as a BB supporter if he'd do things like champion archival releases, rather than just being a weekend rock star.

Who wants to see if they can shake anything loose on his social media?

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« Reply #1673 on: September 18, 2020, 01:05:11 PM »

To get this somewhat back on-topic, isn't it interesting to think about how much more fun and interesting and exciting it would be if, say, a set and track listing had been announced by now and we were having fun speculating about the contents of the set?

Could your source reveal any small details about track listing? E.g. I think it was Adam Marsland who, in the run up to Smile Sessions, revealed that Alan Boyd had let him know of a then unrevealed "woah" inclusion in that set. It turned out to be the Wild Honey era Surf's Up recording if I recall.

I would generally agree with Donny that I prefer threads to follow an organic path and flow freely into any related tangents, unless things go way off topic, rather than separating those out into  separate threads, but it looks like we might be in a minority. But if the function of this thread is just to keep the Feel Flows release on the agenda, until there is new news, what more can we do here than go round in circles with the same group of voices just saying we would like to see it released?
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« Reply #1674 on: September 18, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »

Fan support for buying a physical release was asked for AND received, and digital sales or projected sales in general being a factor in this set's release getting stalled was ruled out.

Is there anything else pertinent to discuss about a series of posts from 2018? Donny? Anyone? No one is covering anything up, and the implication of trying to bury it in light of what happened and the information provided a few days ago in reply to that nonsense is insulting and uncalled for, Donny. It is and always has been there for all to see. But exactly what was mentioned and requested in 2018 has been delivered by the fans over and over again regarding this specific Feel Flows set. Fans and the label want it, fans will buy the physical copy of it if and when it gets a release. It's that simple. Apart from literally kicking a dead horse over and over again for whatever reasons there are, what was asked for back then was delivered and continues to be delivered - The petition and this thread are the proof. The fans are waiting to buy.  

And this is and always will be an open forum. That's why members can discuss what they want, and other members can reply in return. No one is shutting anything down that doesn't cross a line. No one is challenging or threatening anyone in private messages. Members can suggest whatever they want in terms of the direction of a discussion and start a new topic anytime they want.

I already started a separate thread, and if that's not up to par, then someone or anyone feel free to start another.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27337.msg665187/topicseen.html#msg665187

It's a straw man, Craig. The straw man is persistently framing the discussion about streaming as it relates to archive releases/FF as posters indicating that this is the reason for the holdup. There are now several examples of this. Please quote where any poster said that they think the holdup for FF is related to the streaming ideas brought up. Yet there are several quotes of posters re-framing posts to suggest that.

I have no dog in this fight. I have no BB politics. If you can clarify exactly what is "insulting and uncalled for", please do so.

I'll repeat again what I just posted. What Alan said was needed in that post from 2018 is exactly what fans have been doing regarding this set: Showing support. More vocal and public support than I can remember in recent years for a single project from the Beach Boys. Support that includes a petition expressly advocating for a release of this set.

I don't know how much more support would be needed before the situation is put on the table and seen for exactly what it is: Fans supporting this Feel Flows release and saying they will buy it when it comes out. Just please, please put it out and we will buy it.

I don't know what else can be said beyond that. The insulting and uncalled for aspect was trying to suggest people don't want to discuss what happened in 2018 after it was discussed thoroughly, responded to thoroughly, and the attempts made to dredge it up and distort it into something it was not were countered with the facts of what really happened. No one is trying to hide or duck anything regarding that, but it was answered, the requests made in that 2018 exchange are being delivered as we speak by most of the fan base (at least here), and I don't know what else could be added or what more could be brought up when it's all there and responded to at this point.



okay NOW I WILL GO OFF TOPIC, and also simply GO OFF:

Please quote instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate interpretations:

"I haven't seen a single post in which anyone has indicated they think the non-release is due to streaming concerns. This is a straw man - and I'm not sure why. I can only guess that people don't want to discuss that Alan Boyd post because of the drama surrounding how it came to be in the first place, and the drama surrounding how it was introduced in this thread."

There is nothing "insulting" nor "uncalled for" in my comments. I was simply stating that I'm trying to discuss Boyd's points (which I feel are relevant to this discussion overall) there without bringing in all the dirt of the past, and others probably don't want to discuss this because of all the political baggage that comes with the way the topic was introduced here. This was an innocent remark, not a jab.

You're a mod, and you need to do better and remain unbiased, not misrepresent posts. I am not in cahoots with AGD or filledpage or whoever these people are. I don't even get along with AGD.

Fair enough. I apologize if I misinterpreted what you said as something other than what you intended. I never said you were in cahoots with anyone here in this thread or in any other discussion here, so you're responding to something that doesn't exist as an issue.

As far as misrepresenting posts, I've been wrong before and will be wrong again, but in this case it wasn't deliberate and has nothing to do with a bias or anything else. It's simply reacting to what's being said, and we get it wrong sometimes like anything else.
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