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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 615323 times)
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« Reply #1350 on: September 05, 2020, 01:55:28 PM »

What a disgusting and despicable slap to the face of every Beach Boys fan. It's basically the powers that be confirming that they are boycotting us and the petition, and the hard dedicated work of Howie, Mark Linett, Alan Boyd, Ian, c-man, Jon Stebbins, Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, Dennis Wilson, Carl Wilson, etc. No respect is left for ESQ and those involved.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 01:57:51 PM by Jay » Logged

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« Reply #1351 on: September 05, 2020, 02:11:53 PM »

I wonder what sort of numbers on the petition signatures would be considered significant. I guess 1,300 might suggest that box could be expected to generate at least around $130,000 in sales. That said, I would imagine higher sales would be expected as well as required to justify the release. Someone here must have an idea how many units Made In California sold?

Maybe 10,000 signatures would make a difference on the basis that you would then be looking at guaranteed sales in excess of $1,000,000.

I guess at the moment the petition makes little to difference other than being a part of the general conversation among the likes of us which is at least keeping the topic on the agenda.
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« Reply #1352 on: September 05, 2020, 03:47:20 PM »

This ESQ’s response (and deleting the comment) is a shame but not surprising at all, especially if you see what’s happening since 2016.
You could imagine that they would see the fans side (and they’re fans like us) and share this petition, but guess who would retaliate not giving exclusive interviews, access to backstage, etc
Not defending here, because I really think it was disrespectful deleting the commentary and answering like that.
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« Reply #1353 on: September 05, 2020, 07:52:15 PM »

I see some ridiculous talk elsewhere about fans supposedly acting "entitled" regarding this set. Would like to set the record straight on this one: Fans were informed by one of the makers of the set that the set has no scheduled release date. Then Jon Stebbins came on the forum to clarify Howie's post: that this wasn't an issue with COVID, the problem had to do with a circular firing squad. Oddly enough, that information (plus the information about copyright deadline) made some fans worried that we would never even hear a lot of what is on this set (if anything at all). Hence, what some seem to hilariously see as "entitled" is merely a lot of worried fans wondering what is going on with the set.

The Smile Sessions had three official release dates. THREE! The date kept getting pushed back (for whatever reasons), but the fact is that they had a planned release date early on when the set was nearing completion. Feel Flows does not have this, which is what is concerning fans. So what some ridiculously call "entitlement" is just some logical puzzlement from fans which has evolved into petitions and questioning those who could give us answers....OH THE HUMANITY!

Perhaps we should all just sit on our hands? Perhaps no fan should actually act like a fan? Perhaps no one should have any enthusiasm about any future release again? What a fun fandom that sounds like Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1354 on: September 05, 2020, 08:18:39 PM »

I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it
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« Reply #1355 on: September 05, 2020, 10:50:57 PM »

I see some ridiculous talk elsewhere about fans supposedly acting "entitled" regarding this set. Would like to set the record straight on this one: Fans were informed by one of the makers of the set that the set has no scheduled release date. Then Jon Stebbins came on the forum to clarify Howie's post: that this wasn't an issue with COVID, the problem had to do with a circular firing squad. Oddly enough, that information (plus the information about copyright deadline) made some fans worried that we would never even hear a lot of what is on this set (if anything at all). Hence, what some seem to hilariously see as "entitled" is merely a lot of worried fans wondering what is going on with the set.

The Smile Sessions had three official release dates. THREE! The date kept getting pushed back (for whatever reasons), but the fact is that they had a planned release date early on when the set was nearing completion. Feel Flows does not have this, which is what is concerning fans. So what some ridiculously call "entitlement" is just some logical puzzlement from fans which has evolved into petitions and questioning those who could give us answers....OH THE HUMANITY!

Perhaps we should all just sit on our hands? Perhaps no fan should actually act like a fan? Perhaps no one should have any enthusiasm about any future release again? What a fun fandom that sounds like Roll Eyes

Exactly. Not only that some of us actually CARE about the band’s legacy , apparently more than the band does. Or , rather, one person. Sadly its the one who has the say so.
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« Reply #1356 on: September 05, 2020, 11:03:43 PM »



Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

That just means we all need to keep pushing this petition until the number is too large to ignore. Let's send direct, private messages to friends and fellow music fans, and see if we can spread the word in a direct, personal, and non-spam-like way.


ESQ's dismissal of the current signature count implies that a "large" number may be something that will cause FF's existence to be addressed, grudgingly of not, in *some* fashion, unless I'm misunderstanding their reply.

The band, either via individual members, their management, or whatever mouthpiece they may be communicating through, will at some point have to address this box. Either they'll have to give some excuse which covers up the actual reasons, or they will have to address the real reasons, but they won't be able to just ignore a persistent group of well meaning fans who are searching for answers about this. You can't put toothpaste back into the tube and that's what they're trying to do here it would seem. Too much has been said about the box by too many people.

I think the real reasons why this isn't coming out are perhaps embarrassing and would not have good optics for someone involved. I can't think of any other reason for some sort of conspiracy of silence which seems to be the case.

And hopefully, a much better alternative for all parties involved, as opposed to awkward public obfuscation/discussion/avoidance of the reasons for the delay would just be to release the box, and let the fans empty their wallets for the band's benefit.

The fact that Brian's social media pages have recently repeatedly hinted to Brian being on the side of releasing/acknowledging the box (I take the "feel flows" live clip, as well as the shout outs to the album anniversaries as being not-so-subtle hints to fans) as evidence that Brian wants this music out.

Brian is the last person, after all he's been through, to have to worry about whether music he wants to be released can eventually come out or not. For whatever reasons are behind it, it's painful to think that at this late stage in the game he and his side have to be fighting some sort of fight to honor the music that he and his late brothers made so many years ago. That should piss every fan off royally.

Let's continue this fight for Brian and the late Wilsons, if for no other reason. It's a noble cause, as far as I'm concerned. I can't see any opposition to FF having any legitimacy.

The overall silence from all parties tells me the reasons are rooted in some giant amount of BS - and once again, to me, that points to it being a Mike issue in some form. The way the ESQ has to stay quiet and not rock the boat for fear of not getting future interviews with Mike? I think the same must be true for Brian, not for fear of losing interviews of course, but for potentially inflaming a situation with a very litigious guy who has shown a history of doing all sorts of awful things out of retaliation. If Brian's page decided to just post publicly and say "we want to release this, but Mike is making these demands, or outright refusing because of XYZ", that could make this and other band situations 10 times worse, so I *hope* that the continued silence  means there's some behind the scenes attempts at convincing, negotiation or communication still happening in some fashion which could be the reason for the silence from everyone involved.

Just my humble opinion on what seems logical to me at this point. Maybe I'm wrong, but none of this seems completely outlandish to me. Everyone involved isn't just staying silent for the fun of it. There's got to be some reason. The parties clearly have something to lose by speaking about it publicly at this point. Once again, I think it's a bit naïve to think that Brian and Al publicly humiliating Mike back in February with the very well-covered anti hunting fiasco would have 100% nothing to do with the situation. When has Mike ever struck anybody has a guy who would just take something like that on the chin, shrug it off, and then *not* try to retaliate to whoever "wronged" him?  

I think continued silence says there's still some attempts at things being worked out, or perhaps this box is being used as a pawn in some way which is gross, but if it winds up meaning the box gets released then I don't really care what has to happen to get that result.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 05:17:18 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1357 on: September 06, 2020, 02:15:05 AM »

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.
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« Reply #1358 on: September 06, 2020, 03:50:39 AM »

Maybe we could get Robin Pecknold (Fleet Foxes) on board? It seems that he is a big fan of the Sunflower/Surf's Up-era. He even mentioned Feel Flows in the liner notes for the first Fleet Foxes album. He's very active on Instagram and seems to read messages by fans. And he got a big and active community following him.

In my option it's import to raise the awareness of this dilemma. At some point the band or members of the band have to comment publicily. The sooner the better as this topic could cause a lasting rift inside the fan community. I thought it's all about harmony...
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« Reply #1359 on: September 06, 2020, 06:48:07 AM »

A few minutes earlier I saw a post from The Daily Beatle blog about a release from last year that was made available maybe for a few seconds, and then was unavailable with some Beatles outtakes from 1969, and who made this happen was Apple/Universal:

https://open.spotify.com/album/1Na3Ts9thPv4JoEoF2f0v9?si=g5d-1YKeSOGgDmTTjjPw-Q

Maybe if BRI/Capitol would do this at least with the 1970 tracks from Feel Flows while they’ll try to work whatever issues are preventing now the box to be released
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« Reply #1360 on: September 06, 2020, 07:17:48 AM »

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.
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« Reply #1361 on: September 06, 2020, 08:25:05 AM »

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.

So they'll keep moving the goal posts like a politician in order to suit their agenda, I suppose? This is awful behavior and incredibly transparent. Reeks of trying to coddle the egotistical gross whims of someone behind the scenes.
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« Reply #1362 on: September 06, 2020, 08:34:22 AM »

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

By “they” do you mean ESQ? Or was that a random commenter who said 1,000 fans isn’t a large number?

Thanks much for commenting to ESQ about the set, btw. While it wasn’t at all a response we wanted, it was a good try.

The dismissal of the signature count (and even dismissal of a hypothetical count of 5,000+) was included in one of the personal messages I received from ESQ.

I bet when ESQ broke the 1,000 subscriber mark they were pretty darn happy about it and didn't look at that number in a condescending way. Likewise, this petition has basically been spread by word-of-mouth...No big names have endorsed the petition, nor have any media outlets talked about it (the trophy hunting petition only blew up after the media and Brian Wilson got involved with the petition). So 1,300 signatures is a pretty good number all things considered.

Shame that they dismissed the petition number. It is also more interesting that they inquired about what "behind-the-scenes disaster" you were referring to regarding Feel Flows. I guess this could mean many things:

1) ESQ knows nothing about any "behind-the-scenes disaster" and are completely clueless about any problems with the Feel Flows boxset
2) ESQ knows nothing about any "behind-the-scenes disaster" because they know the set now has a release date
3) There are so many behind-the-scenes disasters regarding Feel Flows that they legitimately didn't know which one you're referring to
4) They don't want to publicly get involved in an internal band scuffle because it would keep them from access to certain band members in the future (as AlanJames wrote above) and decided to play dumb
 
#4 is the most likely and I really can't blame them...they have a business to uphold, so I do understand. Keeping in mind the reason we want their help to spread the word is because they have a very large following. But they have that large following because they have kept to a successful business model (a business model that likely keeps them out of band politics for the most part).

Here are things from our perspective: a band member said that an amazing boxset was supposed to come out in February 2020, so of course all of us fans are dying to hear this music. It is now September 2020 and the only official word we've heard recently is that this set isn't scheduled to even be released. So I hope that ESQ, the band, those in each camp can entirely understand why we're puzzled by everything and want some answers. Are we entitled to answers? Hell no. But if us fans were entirely void of selfishness we wouldn't even be fans in the first place.

We've all spent thousands of dollars supporting this band, all we're asking is that we can each give them a couple hundred more for this set.
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« Reply #1363 on: September 06, 2020, 08:50:45 AM »

This is a gold mine for the rock press if someone will just show enough gumption to put the track list together with Cork's timeline and pass it on.

To all those responding to ESQ and its comments to the poster, do keep in mind that it is the equivalent of the "embedded press" in Iraq ca. 2007.

And, of course, over at "the other place" Mr. Suppressive Personality is trying to cram "entitlement" down people's throats in order to shut them up. Who knew that Bill Barr had a doppelganger living in England?  3D

And he and his cronies are seizing upon a series of speculations about how such archival projects get approved for release to distort the issue further. No, we're not surprised at the tactics of Mr. Suppressive Personality and those who continue to enable him.

To boil down Cork's terrific timeline reconstruction: the fans did not sneak into the BB's vaults, concoct a track list for material there from 1969-71, and demand a release of it on general principles.

No, what happened was that a group of long-time collaborators spent countless hours working the project through the minefields of this fractured group, and brought the project to completion, per Howie's comments here. As noted from comments/interpretations of Cork's timeline, something went awry in the 3-4 week period from June 19-July 13 and we now have the heaviest of all iron curtains slammed down on the project as if it never existed in the first place.

Given all that, we are 1000% entitled to know what is going on. We can't force the group to release this, of course. We are not "entitled" to do that.

But we deserve to know what has happened. And we have every right to advocate for its release.

Let's see--1300 fans at, what $100 a copy for a 5-CD set? That's $130,000 just from the hard-core fans. (And that number continue to grow.) What are the sales figures on the Sunshine series? What were the sales figures on TSS, or the GV box set back in the day? Let's have an empirical point of comparison on this, instead of blowhards ordering us to STFU.

It's important to keep the pressure up so that, if nothing else, what happened to derail this project will see the light of day. The media is the way to make this happen. Surely someone will realize that the balance of the BBs archive beyond 1969-71 is not worth just walking away from this apparent fiasco with one's tail between one's legs. As Billy said, FEEL FLOWS is the last chance for the band to use any release to put a bonafide artistic feather in their cap. If they don't put this out, it will be the dumbest thing they've ever done--and that, of course, is saying more than a mouthful, now, isn't it?  Smokin

Also--keep spreading the word about FEEL FLOWS. Let's get the signatures on the petition up as high as possible. Let's keep upping the ante! If we can get the potential revenue from fans who want this set heading in the direction of $500K, something's going to have to give.
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« Reply #1364 on: September 06, 2020, 09:14:14 AM »

This is a gold mine for the rock press if someone will just show enough gumption to put the track list together with Cork's timeline and pass it on.

To all those responding to ESQ and its comments to the poster, do keep in mind that it is the equivalent of the "embedded press" in Iraq ca. 2007.

And, of course, over at "the other place" Mr. Suppressive Personality is trying to cram "entitlement" down people's throats in order to shut them up. Who knew that Bill Barr had a doppelganger living in England?  3D

And he and his cronies are seizing upon a series of speculations about how such archival projects get approved for release to distort the issue further. No, we're not surprised at the tactics of Mr. Suppressive Personality and those who continue to enable him.

To boil down Cork's terrific timeline reconstruction: the fans did not sneak into the BB's vaults, concoct a track list for material there from 1969-71, and demand a release of it on general principles.

No, what happened was that a group of long-time collaborators spent countless hours working the project through the minefields of this fractured group, and brought the project to completion, per Howie's comments here. As noted from comments/interpretations of Cork's timeline, something went awry in the 3-4 week period from June 19-July 13 and we now have the heaviest of all iron curtains slammed down on the project as if it never existed in the first place.

Given all that, we are 1000% entitled to know what is going on. We can't force the group to release this, of course. We are not "entitled" to do that.

But we deserve to know what has happened. And we have every right to advocate for its release.

Let's see--1300 fans at, what $100 a copy for a 5-CD set? That's $130,000 just from the hard-core fans. (And that number continue to grow.) What are the sales figures on the Sunshine series? What were the sales figures on TSS, or the GV box set back in the day? Let's have an empirical point of comparison on this, instead of blowhards ordering us to STFU.

It's important to keep the pressure up so that, if nothing else, what happened to derail this project will see the light of day. The media is the way to make this happen. Surely someone will realize that the balance of the BBs archive beyond 1969-71 is not worth just walking away from this apparent fiasco with one's tail between one's legs. As Billy said, FEEL FLOWS is the last chance for the band to use any release to put a bonafide artistic feather in their cap. If they don't put this out, it will be the dumbest thing they've ever done--and that, of course, is saying more than a mouthful, now, isn't it?  Smokin

Also--keep spreading the word about FEEL FLOWS. Let's get the signatures on the petition up as high as possible. Let's keep upping the ante! If we can get the potential revenue from fans who want this set heading in the direction of $500K, something's going to have to give.

On top of that, another great reason for someone in the rock press to bring this up, a tagline of sorts, could be posing the question "why would a band turn down potential of upwards of a quarter million dollars in revenue during the times of the pandemic when most other revenue streams have dried up"?

That, combined with the silence, spells that something is rotten in Denmark.

Hell, let's make this the biggest fan-driven kerfuffle in the history of rock music where the fans are the ones raising a stink to the point where they cannot be ignored. That's another interesting part of this story. That the fans believe in the music so much and love it so dearly that they would be so passionate in their quest for answers.

The whole thing doesn't line up, and that's what is so interesting to be examined from a journalistic perspective. Since when does Mike, of all people, turn down money? Arguably the most money hungry person in the history of rock music, who bitches about profit margins and such during his quest to absolve himself of responsibility for ruining C50… How is that guy turning down extra money when his revenue streams from playing live music have dried up? How does that make sense?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 10:22:56 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1365 on: September 06, 2020, 09:40:08 AM »

Mike Love sucks....
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« Reply #1366 on: September 06, 2020, 09:58:57 AM »

The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.
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« Reply #1367 on: September 06, 2020, 10:18:22 AM »

3) There are so many behind-the-scenes disasters regarding Feel Flows that they legitimately didn't know which one you're referring to

 LOL  LOL  LOL   Thanks, I needed that.

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« Reply #1368 on: September 06, 2020, 11:23:47 AM »

The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

 Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #1369 on: September 06, 2020, 11:32:15 AM »

The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

You know, that probably has to qualify as post of the year and I hope FreakySmiley would consider throwing that one back at ESQ.
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« Reply #1370 on: September 06, 2020, 11:42:06 AM »

Chill...         Please ....   I believe good things will come...    When the stars align.....     Wait..........  Patience is a good quality...

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« Reply #1371 on: September 06, 2020, 12:25:07 PM »

I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.
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« Reply #1372 on: September 06, 2020, 12:29:10 PM »

The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

I presume then that the latest issue of ESQ is wall-to-wall COVID-19 coverage? Because the cover suggests otherwise.

😂
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« Reply #1373 on: September 06, 2020, 12:38:07 PM »

Maybe we could get Robin Pecknold (Fleet Foxes) on board? It seems that he is a big fan of the Sunflower/Surf's Up-era. He even mentioned Feel Flows in the liner notes for the first Fleet Foxes album. He's very active on Instagram and seems to read messages by fans. And he got a big and active community following him.

In my option it's import to raise the awareness of this dilemma. At some point the band or members of the band have to comment publicily. The sooner the better as this topic could cause a lasting rift inside the fan community. I thought it's all about harmony...

Or how about Sean O'Hagen of the The High Llamas? I'd say he was not only a fan of that era but expressed it quite well in his writing. Hawaii anyone?
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myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
Lonely Summer
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« Reply #1374 on: September 06, 2020, 12:53:09 PM »

Actually, I think there's a better explanation for all of this: Capitol are not allowed to release anything at this point, other than Pet Sounds anniversary editions. Next year is another big one - 55 years of Pet Sounds!
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