Feel Flows box set

[rab2591]

If a person bought tickets to the 2012 reunion tour then that person is, arguably, a fan of Mike's Beach Boys concept. 

Hey Jake, your post was a great read, but I do have to ask about this part. Is this your opinion or what you think Mike thinks? Cuz I mean, though these weren't arena shows, I think for the most part they were much bigger deals than Mike's faux-Beach Boys shows. And the reasoning for that, I assume, was that it was pushed as the return of Brian Wilson (and of course Al Jardine and then to a lesser extent David Marks).

My opinion only, because in my opinion, if Mike is on stage, it is his show, no matter who else is there.  The same cannot be said for Brian, due to his receding presence on stage.  Brian can sit behind the piano at his own shows, with his own band, and not always do that much, and it is somehow still his show.  Not the case if Mike is out there.   Question: Was "Be True To Your School" performed during the reunion tour? (I don't know the answer to this). If it was, then that is evidence of what the show was about and where they were coming from.  Maybe I'm mistaken (I don't follow set lists), but I doubt Brian would ever perform that song on one of his own tours -has he ever performed it live? And was "Surf's Up" performed during the reunion tour? (Again, I don't know) Because if you've got a Beach Boys reunion tour on which "Surf's Up" is not performed and "Be True To Your School" is performed, then that's much closer to a Mike concept than a Brian-oriented concept.

Brian and his band have played 'Be True To Your School' in concert.

'Surf's Up' was not performed during the C50, however 'Our Prayer', 'Friends', 'This Is That', 'Marcella', etc were on the setlist for the C50. So while 'Surf's Up' wasn't there, a slew of even more obscure Beach Boys songs were on the setlist (songs that Mike rarely goes near (if he ever has)).

And I will add that I caught one of the last Brian Wilson shows before COVID shut everything down, it was a Greatest Hits show, and it was very similar to a Mike Love setlist. Keep in mind, all those 60s hits that Mike gravitates toward were all helmed by Brian Wilson. So while I may not want the image of The Beach Boys to be that of palm trees and surf boards, I also have a huge admiration and love for that early 60s material (so hearing it in concert will elicit no complaints from me).

People who went to see the C50 weren't going there to see Mike Love and his concept of The Beach Boys. They were going there to hear songs from almost every Beach Boys album being performed by the remaining members of The Beach Boys and their incredibly talented backing band.

Imagine if, ten years from now, Mike Love is the lone living band member. Think about how he would then be able to further twist the band’s history to enhance his own importance without opposition. It makes me nauseous.

I wouldn't worry about it.  Really, the more interesting hypothetical is what would have occurred if Brian Wilson had died in the late '60s, mid-70s or early '80s. 

I would worry about it. 'The Beach Boys: An American Family' is a very real thing:

From the LA New Times (big thanks to Rocker for posting this):

And when that wasn't enough, [Mike Love] created a miniseries to claim his glory, presenting himself as the true vision behind the Beach Boys. The sad fact, though, is that the TV movie now exists forever as a strong public record -- in other words, to be believed as history by those who don't know any better.

"I didn't like the second part," Brian hesitantly says of the miniseries. "It wasn't really true to the way things were. I'd like to see another movie if it was done right. But I just sort of turned my back to this one, or my other cheek, or whatever you wanna call it. It was best just to ignore it because it really wasn't true to life."

Sahanaja remembers a rehearsal last summer when Wilson's wife and comanager, Melinda, was on the phone with a copy of the script in front of her, yelling at one of Love's representatives over certain questionable content. Brian was so upset that he asked for the keys to the car and sat in the parking lot until the incident was over. "It was so sad," says Sahanaja, "because Brian's happier now, trying to move on -- and yet this stuff from the past keeps popping up to haunt him. My theory is that Brian and Melinda were most disturbed, apart from all the Mike Love propaganda at Brian's expense, by a scene that depicted Dennis Wilson screaming, 'You never supported me as an artist,' at his older brother. From everything I've read and everyone I've ever talked to, Dennis was the one guy -- perhaps the only guy -- who always stood by Brian."\

In fact, the miniseries begins by portraying Dennis (who reportedly despised Love; legend has it that   the two were once involved in a fistfight onstage at the Greek Theatre in the '70s) and Love surfing together as best friends -- the two studs on the beach -- even though every Beach Boys history to date claims Dennis was the band's only surfer. The film then depicts it being Love's idea to form the band, and as the miniseries progresses, Mike comes up with nearly every brilliant idea -- from creating the titles Pet Sounds and Endless Summer to "jamming with John and Paul" in India -- as Brian rapidly becomes a slobbering, drug-crazed idiot. It's almost comical. 

Mike absolutely has a verified track record of trying to change history, especially post-80s/90s. The 2005 freebie CD lawsuit included a section where it was claimed that "For three decades, from 1967 onward, Brian Wilson laid in bed doing drugs and collecting checks." (paraphrasing but that's pretty much verbatim what was said). Doesn't mention that Brian wrote a lot of songs, doesn't mention that he toured with the band at times during those three decades. And within the last decade he compared Melinda to Landy (utterly sickening comparison when you realize how healthy, active, and engaged Brian is now compared to the days of being doped up to the point of having a stroke).

Mike absolutely tries to change history, even with Brian alive...if Brian passed on and Mike decided to continue this behavior, I shudder to think what we'd be hearing.

[mtaber]

I’m hoping that Howie can somehow update us on the current situation without compromising himself. I know this is a very delicate topic for him, so will understand if he maintains silence for a while.

[DonnyL]

I want to reiterate something I tried to be clear on earlier, but it seems to be misunderstood:

"The Beach Boys" as a group, entity, etc. still exist - NOT Mike's touring band.

The Beach Boys never truly disbanded, they just kind of stopped recording and playing shows together. If Jerry Schilling is still managing the group, this IMO suggests that there is a mediator on the scene to possibly help smooth things over if there is friction between factions within the group.

The "brand" angle, I think is something else entirely. While it may very well be part of why a member may or may not be comfortable w/ Feel Flows, any one member does not have the ability to decide how the group is branded - that is something determined by BRI and I assume people like Schilling. If I recall, there are terms regarding how "The Beach Boys" can be presented (wasn't there an issue about female singers, etc.?). Jerry Schilling was one of Carl's best friends, and we can be assured he has good intentions regarding the legacy of The Beach Boys.

So is BRI managed by someone other than Schilling? If there is no "group", and Schilling does not manage BRI or Mike's touring band, what does he manage exactly?

[Howie Edelson]

He manages Brother Records, Inc.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Imagine if there was a super deluxe edition of Sgt Pepper and Ringo blocked it because he wanted the Beatles legacy to be based on Love you do instead. That’s what this feels like

[DonnyL]

He manages Brother Records, Inc.

Well that clears it up. I guess "group" and corporation are more or less one and the same, though I suppose one could argue Bruce (and David?) are part of the "group" but not BRI.

[HeyJude]

I’ll write this again since I don’t think I got a reply last time. If they miss the 50 year copyright extension deadline, couldn’t the label just release the stuff anyways then since Mike, al, Bruce and Brian don’t own the copyright anymore?
Isn’t that the reason behind all of these 50 year copyright extension sets?

Or am I completely wrong here?

The theoretical idea behind "copyright extension" is to release something before it becomes 50 years old, thus protecting it from falling into the public domain.

In the case of "Feel Flows", BRI owns the rights to presumably most if not nearly everything on the set, as far as ownership of the tapes.

Additionally, I believe even on 60s material (which Capitol owns), they have to get BRI approval to release any previously unreleased material.

Even if Capitol owned the rights to something that fell into public domain, and even if nothing contractually precluded them from releasing the material, it wouldn't exactly be good for their relationship with the band to release something against their wishes.

None of that applies with "Feel Flows." BRI owns the tapes, and the label wants to release it.

Yes, BRI would need to release any unreleased song titles before the end of this year to protect 1970 material, which is why we're advocating for the full set so that we don't get some barfed out minimalist digital extension on December 31st.

[HeyJude]

This might come off as the most stupid post I've ever made here, but I really don't understand the point of copywriting. I mean, if something slips into the public domain but the label still owns the masters, couldn't they just release it anyway?

They could release it anyway, but then if it's released as a "public domain" release, everybody else on the planet can copy it and "release" it themselves as well.

Capitol doesn't own the masters on "Feel Flows" for the most part, so this isn't at play in this case anyway.

[HeyJude]

Is Jerry Schilling still managing the group?

There is no "group" - just a "brand." (unless Schilling, or whoever, is the manger of the touring group, which is really just a touring brand anyway) Since we're all speculating, my speculation is that whatever this is has to do with the brand-name "Beach Boys" in some way.  There has been (or once was) significant internal tension over what "Beach Boys" was supposed to represent... the roots of this issue starting no later than the nervous breakdown of late 1964 and Brian coming off the touring circuit at the beginning of 1965. There was a brief period ('65-'67 at most) during which Brian tried to take that brand name and run with it.  He had personal problems, he had family problems, he had no significiant allies in what he was trying to do, he faced opposition from within the family, and thereafter the Beach Boys gradually became something else, something about 180 degrees removed from what Brian was trying to do circa 1966, but something more consistent with what the Beach Boys were in 1962 and 1963.

During that period of time, there was this brief, strange, anomalous "Feel Flows" period during which the group decided (or Jack Rieley convinced them) that "Beach Boys" should represent whatever they had to offer musically.  In reality, this was nothing more than Jack basically telling the Beach Boys "Brian was right back in 1966 - make the best music you can make." But the only reason Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Al and even Mike seemed to (grudgingly?) agree to this is because they had no other option; at the time, they had no clue that surf-and-beach nostalgia was going to come along in '73-'75.  They were forced into a corner commercially, and with Brian semi-retired and not interested in working with them, they had to fall back on... music.   But once the nostalgia and hits-based presentation became an option for them, it was a no-brainer to return to branding and marketing.  Accordingly, the "Feel Flows" era gets buried (as did Pet Sounds and the brief Brian-centered moment of the mid-60s).  So the Beach Boys name gets established, and it becomes a a fixed corporate-entertainment brand that people can take however they want to.  Some like it, some don't.

Today, it's very late in the game for these guys... do they really want whatever is on this quasi-mythical box (whatever it is... can it really be that great?) to represent "Beach Boys?" I would say that from their perspective, this is not "Beach Boys." In fact the overall inference or implicit message to be taken from current overall circumstances is that if you call yourself a "Beach Boys fan" then go out and see the "Beach Boys" on tour when they come to your town. That is, the truest, purest Beach Boys are on tour - go see them if you like them so much.  Or, alternatively, if you're fixated on"Feel Flows"-style music, maybe your'e not really a Beach Boys fan?

Again... pure speculation. I know nothing about this box set.  But speculation based on the very supportable proposition that the image issue - what their collective group name should mean, and what it should be identified with in the public mind - has been a problem since 1965 at the latest, it's always a problem, so why shouldn't it have at least something to do with this current issue?  Stebbins mentioned "dysfunction" and "circular firing squad" somewhere in this thread - the roots and causes of that are very deep, but one of the  clearest manifestations of the dysfunction is (1) this battle over identity, along with (2) the apparent inability to sever family and business ties.

While different band members have different levels of sensibilities when it comes to the different eras of the band, none of this is at play with "Feel Flows."

The release of four discs worth of 1967 studio material, and four discs of 1968-ish studio material, and then many discs of live material from 1967/68, would indicate that type of material being released isn't a problem.

It's true that the sensitivity seems to increase with later material, but again, as I've said before, BRI had to greenlight this project being compiled, and also as I've said, nothing to do with with band names or content of the set is the reason behind the delays.

[HeyJude]

He manages Brother Records, Inc.

Well that clears it up. I guess "group" and corporation are more or less one and the same, though I suppose one could argue Bruce (and David?) are part of the "group" but not BRI.

The group mostly just exists the same way the Beatles exist, via a holding company.

It's easier to think of it as the band not existing, and a corporation existing where Mike, Al, Brian, and Carl's estate co-own the Beach Boys name and associated things. They license the name to Mike to tour with. They license other merchandise the same way Apple does (albeit on a much smaller scale of course), and so on.

Even when they *did* reunite for C50 in 2012, it wasn't really a case of the band then existing again. They didn't even run the C50 project through BRI. They created a new company, "50 Big Ones", with Mike, Brian, and Joe Thomas as bosses. They then employed everybody else, presumably in the process cutting a short-term deal vis-a-vis the BRI license for the "Beach Boys" name that allowed "50 Big Ones" to use the name for the reunion.

[Lonely Summer]

If the group recently touring as the Beach Boys isn't the Beach Boys, then they should be arrested for impersonating them. If it is simply a tribute to the Beach Boys, then it should be promoted as such.
What do you get when you go to see a show put on by Mike's touring band? An evening of Beach Boys hits, along with a couple of newer things from Mike.
What do you get when you go to see a show put on by Brian's touring band? An evening of Beach Boys hits, plus Love and Mercy.
It's not like Brian is out there doing a show of the music he's written and created since his solo career started in 1987. He does the Beach Boy hits he wrote, produced, arranged; Al was one of the singers on those records. To my mind, then, that makes their show as much a Beach Boys show as Mike and Bruce's.
It's still my opinion that the Beach Boys name should have been retired when Carl died. Mike could tour under his own name, or "Mike Love of the Beach Boys", or "Mike Love's Endless Summer Beach Band", or "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band".
I still think of the classic Beach Boys lineup as having Mike, Al, Carl, Dennis and Brian (or Bruce). When two or more of those members are gone, it shouldn't be called The Beach Boys - because, as if often noted, I don't think we'd be too happy if Paul McCartney or Ringo Starr were going around calling their band The Beatles. But the Beatles are the exception. Look at The Who. The Temptations. Creedence Clearwater REVISITED. Herman's Hermits starring Peter Noone.

[juggler]

It's still my opinion that the Beach Boys name should have been retired when Carl died. Mike could tour under his own name, or "Mike Love of the Beach Boys", or "Mike Love's Endless Summer Beach Band", or "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band".

Without a doubt, Carl's passing in 1998 marked the end, both symbolically and literally, for the "Beach Boys" touring act being coterminous with "the group."  Carl was certainly the glue holding Mike and Al together.  And in terms of integrity, it would indeed have made sense to stop using the name for anything other than the 50th anniversary tour/album or things along those lines.  BUT, as the saying goes, money talks and b.s. walks.   Brian, Al, Justyn and Jonah get a nice cut from the revenue of the "Beach Boys" touring act, so they have an interest in (1) the continuation of that touring act and (2) maximizing the revenue therefrom.   "Mike Love and the Kokomo Band" doesn't bring home the bacon.

[chrism1971]

 Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Basically after 31 Dec , if someone somehow leaks the material there’s no legal basis to take action. Or...they will be public domain songs at that point which means anybody can perform and/or record them and the original composer(s) don’t receive a dime for their hard earned work

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Just throwing in my bump again to keep making some positive noise about this material! BRI, my wallet is ready!

[rab2591]

Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

[guitarfool2002]

Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

That is interesting. Apart from the petition, have fans been hitting up the band members' Facebook pages asking about the box set? The Facebook audience alone would be thousands of fans on board with the enthusiasm for this set. And as mentioned, something has to come out from this era before 2021 or they lose some of the music in a legal sense. Here's a box set ready to go and fans willing to buy it, guys! What's the hold up?

[Sam_BFC]

Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

I am going to cautiously interpret this as promising news.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brian's official Facebook just posted a soundcheck of Blondie jamming on 'Feel Flows' with some hashtags including #feelflows

Not sure if thats coincidence or what, but there's no way the Brian camp doesn't know how a lot of us feel right now about this set. Would love for this to be their subtle way of cheering the set on too.

That is interesting. Apart from the petition, have fans been hitting up the band members' Facebook pages asking about the box set? The Facebook audience alone would be thousands of fans on board with the enthusiasm for this set. And as mentioned, something has to come out from this era before 2021 or they lose some of the music in a legal sense. Here's a box set ready to go and fans willing to buy it, guys! What's the hold up?

I did

[HeyJude]

Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Any recordings of unique compositions that haven't been released by the 50 year mark become public domain, regardless of whether they "circulate" or not.

So, if a band has 25 unique compositions recorded in 1970, and they don't release them by the end of 2020, and then decide to release those recordings in 2023, they are unprotected and anybody can take that 2023 release, copy it, and release it themselves, ostensibly legitimately. Or, if they don't release it by the end of 2020, and somehow it leaked before *or* after that date and "circulated", those recordings would also be unprotected.

If an artist has a unique song recording under strict lock and key that they don't ever want to release, and know with 100% certainty it will never leak or escape the vault, then they can still just sit on it.

You can see how this can turn into a scenario where it de-incentivizes artists from releasing *unprotected* work that hasn't leaked.

But really, "Feel Flows" is about more than just protecting copyrights. This is about showcasing this amazing, perception-altering (to the masses) material. If "copyright extension" helps to motivate these sets to happen, then I think we're all fine with that.

But the material on "Feel Flows" deserves more than only *some* of it being released digitally, with possibly generic boot-level "cover art."

[Don Malcolm]

I'm guessing it's not a coincidence. And, as you might expect, there are a number of shout-outs to the #freefeelflows movement in the thread.

But I'm still of the opinion that the media needs to have the track listing slipped to them after Labor Day if there is no further movement on this by then.

And I would hope, since the set is named FEEL FLOWS, that they would see fit to release it on Carl's birthday. 

[CenturyDeprived]

I'm guessing it's not a coincidence. And, as you might expect, there are a number of shout-outs to the #freefeelflows movement in the thread.

But I'm still of the opinion that the media needs to have the track listing slipped to them after Labor Day if there is no further movement on this by then.

And I would hope, since the set is named FEEL FLOWS, that they would see fit to release it on Carl's birthday.  

Yes. How wonderful it would be if it were released on the birthday of either Carl or Dennis. Definitely.

If - and it's an if - a given bandmember is holding up this set for some sort of petty bargaining chip or for some sort of power/control ransom scenario, the amount of disrespect that would show to the children of the deceased members of this band is jaw-dropping and gross. The amount emotionally that this music being released could mean to the now adult children whose parents passed away far too early is incalculable.

Regardless of the specific reason, I would be really surprised if it isn't something petty and ridiculous, ultimately speaking. I have a feeling there are a heck of a lot of people and relatives who are close to the band, who must know the actual reasons why this holdup is going on, and are perhaps quietly seething right now at the possibility of this set turning to dust over some petty nonsense, but can't say anything about it publicly. That thought alone makes me sad beyond words.

Let's hope everything changes for the positive, and FFs gets out there - and the secrets of why this set has been held up can remain a secret for all I or most anyone cares, as long as the music is out there.

[thetojo]

Let's hope everything changes for the positive, and FFs gets out there - and the secrets of why this set has been held up can remain a secret for all I or most anyone cares, as long as the music is out there.

Agreed + +

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Still don't get the copyright thing. No-one else has access to this compilation.

Any recordings of unique compositions that haven't been released by the 50 year mark become public domain, regardless of whether they "circulate" or not.

So, if a band has 25 unique compositions recorded in 1970, and they don't release them by the end of 2020, and then decide to release those recordings in 2023, they are unprotected and anybody can take that 2023 release, copy it, and release it themselves, ostensibly legitimately. Or, if they don't release it by the end of 2020, and somehow it leaked before *or* after that date and "circulated", those recordings would also be unprotected.

If an artist has a unique song recording under strict lock and key that they don't ever want to release, and know with 100% certainty it will never leak or escape the vault, then they can still just sit on it.

You can see how this can turn into a scenario where it de-incentivizes artists from releasing *unprotected* work that hasn't leaked.

But really, "Feel Flows" is about more than just protecting copyrights. This is about showcasing this amazing, perception-altering (to the masses) material. If "copyright extension" helps to motivate these sets to happen, then I think we're all fine with that.

But the material on "Feel Flows" deserves more than only *some* of it being released digitally, with possibly generic boot-level "cover art."

The idea of it comes to this sickens me. If it does end up in the public domain I would cover both albums and i would make any royalties that would’ve gone to Mike or Bruce would go to BrIan and Al.

[Matt H]

With people posting to social media about the box set, maybe we should include the link to the petition each time, so the Brian, Al, and Mike see that link, and it exposes others in the social media thread to the petition to potentially sign it.