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652065 Posts in 26054 Topics by 3716 Members - Latest Member: Smile_Essence1 November 13, 2019, 04:18:01 AM
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Author Topic: Brian Wilson 2020 Live Thread  (Read 4447 times)
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2019, 06:28:20 PM »

Cheers to Rab, OSD, and Debbie for excellent and on-the-mark posts and comments.


I'll never understand why they make Brian tour so much

Sad

He's on the road way too much. Really bad management.


Simple question: What if someone were to say *Brian* was the one who wanted to do more touring and keep booking live shows? Would you believe it?

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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2019, 07:13:03 PM »

I've said it before on here and was shot down, but I'll add it again as it seems relevant: a touring insider (as we'll call them- no one on Brian's team, but still involved with the event) told me in 2015 at Montgomery College that Brian's tour would barely break even an that at the end of the day, merchandise and VIP packages is where the marginal profit was being turned.

They don't run a cheap production. There are a LOT of people involved and a lot of accommodations made, not just for Brian. Plus, recently I'd say more so 2018 onward, they don't seem to be filling the venues like the first few years out of C50 with the Jeff Beck tour, No Pier Pressure, and the initial 50th Farewell to Pet Sounds. I only see two ways to really turn this around, if they even want to bother with that. Maybe packed houses aren't a concern, but less packed houses will lead to less bookings...anyway: Option #1 The Beach Boys reunite (HA!) Option #2 Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE...again. It's been long enough and I know that I'd be first in line for this show, with this band (and AL!!!). But, this would be incredibly taxing for Brian however, I believe if he were truly driven to do it, then it could still be something special.

Thank you for this. Regardless of whether this perfectly reflects the rest of the tour or not, it is a glimpse into how this operation possibly can't be the gravy train bonanza some think it is...and that's not a knock at the tour. On the contrary if they aren't making a killing it goes to show how this touring is done for the love of the music (or other reasons) rather than sole monetary benefit...much to the chagrin of several posters who seem to have pent-up angst about Melinda for some reason.

I don't mean to sound rude and unappreciative to Brian's fans, but all indications are that he learned decades ago not to worry about a few critics. He pays no attention and does what he wants as an artist and a person. That's a sound plan, and was even true in the early 80's and I'm pretty sure, before that. While I'm certainly not hanging out with him these days, I trust what I hear from the people who do. I think that attitude became part of his survival. He enjoys appreciative fans, ignores the others, and has for some time.

While I believe this is 100% on point, didn't Brian/Brian's management stop putting out demos of Brian's solo work on his forum because some fans berated the work many many years ago? I thought I heard a story about Brian actually reading the comments and getting depressed and thus they stopped giving goodies to fans on that forum. I could totally be misremembering that story.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear that Brian has a system for ignoring the BS these days.

Also, if anyone has any more comments regarding Brian's touring and financial gain I'd love to hear them - proving or disproving this notion that Brian is being controlled solely for monetary gain. I'm just tired of reading comments that aren't backed up by any factual data...but rather just flippant comments meant to slander people close to Brian.  
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:38:58 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2019, 07:48:49 PM »

Rab: Yes, that happened. They used to post outtakes, unused tracks, and other assorted audio through the site. In that case you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong about what it was, an unused track from the Christmas album was posted. Then some "fans" started trashing it. Brian himself responded in an unusually angry reply, and the posting of rare tracks stopped.

So thanks to those "fans" for ruining a good thing. But like you also said, Rab, there are cases like those kids who thought it was fun to trash another album of Brian's, an album which one of them didn't even pay for but had received it as a gift and nice gesture from a fellow fan, and unfortunately some must just like to be assholes about certain things even if the reviewers couldn't agree if it was real or a joke review. Wonder how their message board is working out. No, wait, actually I could give two shits about that or them, it's past history.

So yes, indeed, some idiotic comments did scuttle what was a cool thing that was being done for Brian's fans, and I don't blame him a bit for basically telling them to f**k off. It's a sentiment I've shared many times. And if he's now not bothering to look at those comments, good for him! Who needs that bullshit when you've done what Brian Wilson has done in his lifetime.

PS - If I recall too, Brian's fans got that outtake of "What A Wonderful World" through the same online channel that got ruined by the negative comments...and that is a simply amazing track. So it was fun while it lasted, before the idiots got involved. Am I remembering that correctly?
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2019, 07:57:02 PM »

I hope he comes to Minneapolis. I think this time I am going to break down and do the Meet and Greet.
I'm not sure if he's going to do more meet and greets - the last couple shows I've gone to haven't had the option (Minneapolis Christmas show, Surf's Up Milwaukee show)

There was a meet and greet at the Minneapolis Christmas show, but it seems they ended them sometime this year.
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2019, 04:34:35 AM »

Rab: Yes, that happened. They used to post outtakes, unused tracks, and other assorted audio through the site. In that case you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong about what it was, an unused track from the Christmas album was posted. Then some "fans" started trashing it. Brian himself responded in an unusually angry reply, and the posting of rare tracks stopped.

So thanks to those "fans" for ruining a good thing. But like you also said, Rab, there are cases like those kids who thought it was fun to trash another album of Brian's, an album which one of them didn't even pay for but had received it as a gift and nice gesture from a fellow fan, and unfortunately some must just like to be assholes about certain things even if the reviewers couldn't agree if it was real or a joke review. Wonder how their message board is working out. No, wait, actually I could give two shits about that or them, it's past history.

So yes, indeed, some idiotic comments did scuttle what was a cool thing that was being done for Brian's fans, and I don't blame him a bit for basically telling them to f**k off. It's a sentiment I've shared many times. And if he's now not bothering to look at those comments, good for him! Who needs that bullshit when you've done what Brian Wilson has done in his lifetime.

PS - If I recall too, Brian's fans got that outtake of "What A Wonderful World" through the same online channel that got ruined by the negative comments...and that is a simply amazing track. So it was fun while it lasted, before the idiots got involved. Am I remembering that correctly?

What a damn shame.

I know Debbie said that Brian isolates himself from the critics, but perhaps people still need to ask themselves "What if Brian decided to look at Smiley Smile today?" before they post. Whether or not he would, perhaps there's a possibility that one day he'd be curious to look up The Beach Boys on google and he'd stumble across Smiley Smile.

Imagine reading that some of your "fans" think your music is "f*cking stupid". Imagine seeing your wife being called a bad manager. Imagine seeing a vocal minority claim that you have zero free will in your life. That your band members are using you for financial gain. That your wife is controlling you for financial gain. That you need to give up touring.

Brian receives so much undeserved vitriol about his life...and it's really sad to read.

Someone writes "$$$$$" as a response to why Brian tours. And they say that the band (including someone like Nicky Wonder) is/was using Brian for monetary reasons. It's a shame that people who have this mindset don't think out what their accusations fully imply...because if they did I highly doubt they'd be so quick to post these kinds of comments.
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2019, 04:55:08 AM »

Rab: Yes, that happened. They used to post outtakes, unused tracks, and other assorted audio through the site. In that case you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong about what it was, an unused track from the Christmas album was posted. Then some "fans" started trashing it. Brian himself responded in an unusually angry reply, and the posting of rare tracks stopped.

So thanks to those "fans" for ruining a good thing. But like you also said, Rab, there are cases like those kids who thought it was fun to trash another album of Brian's, an album which one of them didn't even pay for but had received it as a gift and nice gesture from a fellow fan, and unfortunately some must just like to be assholes about certain things even if the reviewers couldn't agree if it was real or a joke review. Wonder how their message board is working out. No, wait, actually I could give two shits about that or them, it's past history.

So yes, indeed, some idiotic comments did scuttle what was a cool thing that was being done for Brian's fans, and I don't blame him a bit for basically telling them to f**k off. It's a sentiment I've shared many times. And if he's now not bothering to look at those comments, good for him! Who needs that bullshit when you've done what Brian Wilson has done in his lifetime.

PS - If I recall too, Brian's fans got that outtake of "What A Wonderful World" through the same online channel that got ruined by the negative comments...and that is a simply amazing track. So it was fun while it lasted, before the idiots got involved. Am I remembering that correctly?



Don't know about "What a wonderful world". I always thought that was just a bootleg. So it did have a semi-official release?

Regarding the other story, yes, IIRC it was a Christmas tune Brian had recorded at home and didn't even pretend it was something like a preview for a new album or similar. And then some people on the messageboard basically started to b*tch around that this wasn't a new GOK
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2019, 07:01:13 AM »

I remember the Silent Night he released on the website back then got some negativity thrown at it by some fans online.
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2019, 07:04:22 AM »


Don't know about "What a wonderful world". I always thought that was just a bootleg. So it did have a semi-official release?


Every version of "What a Wonderful World" I've ever heard has sounded like a tenth generation cassette dub ripped to a low bitrate MP3 from like 20 years ago, so I don't think an official source has ever put that out, even streaming or as a download. Which is a shame, because it's a pretty marvelous performance and arrangement.

Even if it wasn't actually ever earmarked for "Orange Crate Art", it would be a nice addition to a deluxe version of that album. Or just put the song out by some other means. A pristine "What a Wonderful World" would be near the top of my list of latter-day Brian outtakes to hear in good quality.
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2019, 01:48:47 PM »

Rab: Yes, that happened. They used to post outtakes, unused tracks, and other assorted audio through the site. In that case you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong about what it was, an unused track from the Christmas album was posted. Then some "fans" started trashing it. Brian himself responded in an unusually angry reply, and the posting of rare tracks stopped.

So thanks to those "fans" for ruining a good thing. But like you also said, Rab, there are cases like those kids who thought it was fun to trash another album of Brian's, an album which one of them didn't even pay for but had received it as a gift and nice gesture from a fellow fan, and unfortunately some must just like to be assholes about certain things even if the reviewers couldn't agree if it was real or a joke review. Wonder how their message board is working out. No, wait, actually I could give two shits about that or them, it's past history.

So yes, indeed, some idiotic comments did scuttle what was a cool thing that was being done for Brian's fans, and I don't blame him a bit for basically telling them to f**k off. It's a sentiment I've shared many times. And if he's now not bothering to look at those comments, good for him! Who needs that bullshit when you've done what Brian Wilson has done in his lifetime.

PS - If I recall too, Brian's fans got that outtake of "What A Wonderful World" through the same online channel that got ruined by the negative comments...and that is a simply amazing track. So it was fun while it lasted, before the idiots got involved. Am I remembering that correctly?

What a damn shame.

I know Debbie said that Brian isolates himself from the critics, but perhaps people still need to ask themselves "What if Brian decided to look at Smiley Smile today?" before they post. Whether or not he would, perhaps there's a possibility that one day he'd be curious to look up The Beach Boys on google and he'd stumble across Smiley Smile.

Imagine reading that some of your "fans" think your music is "f*cking stupid". Imagine seeing your wife being called a bad manager. Imagine seeing a vocal minority claim that you have zero free will in your life. That your band members are using you for financial gain. That your wife is controlling you for financial gain. That you need to give up touring.

Brian receives so much undeserved vitriol about his life...and it's really sad to read.

Someone writes "$$$$$" as a response to why Brian tours. And they say that the band (including someone like Nicky Wonder) is/was using Brian for monetary reasons. It's a shame that people who have this mindset don't think out what their accusations fully imply...because if they did I highly doubt they'd be so quick to post these kinds of comments.

Thanks for pointing this out , Rab and GF. I assumed I was being a bit too flippant in my post. I'm not surprised that if Brian was shown unappreciative comments about his gift of a rough work in the past, he was likely annoyed. I hate that real fans may have lost access to this great, informative stuff because of a few self-important trolls online.

One thing I'm certain of is that Brian knows who he is and what he's contributed. He cares a lot about what other truly gifted artists have to say about his work, along with knowledgeable fans. I don't believe for a minute that he cares about some ridiculous person who spends their time online attacking him from behind a pseudonym thinks. What's their point, anyway? I guess it gives them some sort of thrill to think that they're messing with Brian or the people around him. I think that's a rare occurrence these days and Brian would just walk away from it anyway. The stupidity of it all is an annoyance, at best. Unfortunately, this could be at the loss of real fans Brian enjoys.

You and Rab also pointed out how completely insulting this is to Brian's devoted band members and others who have supported him for decades - like they would allow Brian to be abused. That's what used to send me into orbit. Now, I just see a few sad little people spreading rumors (whomever they are) who need far more attention than they're getting in their real lives. Maybe they should focus on that, rather than thinking they're going to bring down the greatness of Brian Wilson. That ship has sailed. Their opinions don't matter at all.   
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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2019, 02:01:01 PM »


So well said, Deb, and as always, the straight truth. Thank you for shaming those uninformed clowns and setting the record straight. 
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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2019, 10:54:30 AM »

Sorry, you can't tell me Brian likes his hectic touring schedule.

Not buying it, just my opinion
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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2019, 11:19:21 AM »

Sorry, you can't tell me Brian likes his hectic touring schedule.

Not buying it, just my opinion

Despite him saying so? I think he likes the alternative even less.
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2019, 11:22:01 AM »

Sorry, you can't tell me Brian likes his hectic touring schedule.

Not buying it, just my opinion

Thus, the difference between your opinions and the reality of the situation. As in the reality that no one is "forcing" Brian Wilson to tour, and Brian himself wants to book more shows versus your unwavering opinion that bad management and whatever other entities surrounding Brian are forcing him to keep playing shows against his wishes.

Is there a basis for these opinions, is this more bull coming from some phony "insiders" and online mouthpieces again?
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« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2019, 12:46:16 PM »

Sorry, you can't tell me Brian likes his hectic touring schedule.

Not buying it, just my opinion

Despite him saying so? I think he likes the alternative even less.


When I had my second stroke a couple of years ago i had to relearn how to type and my speech was affected. I was supposed to be out indefinitely. I willed and work myself to be able to return to work (I work in a tech support call center) in about three months. Itís taken over two years but Iím about where I was before the second one. I was supposed to be on disability. If I had listened to everyone else Iíd be using a walker (which I refused) or still using a cane. Iím a stubborn son of a bitch. Brian seems to be the same way . I think heíd rather be pushing himself and getting adulation from his fans than stay at home in pain watching the Tamron Hall show.

But hey, Iím just someone with common sense, what the hell do I know? I mean, people who know Brian have said the same thing too! Hell, Brian could do a video of him saying the same thing, and certain people would still be making their little comments.

Whatever.

Itís pathetic.
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« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2019, 01:19:22 PM »

Isn't the correct answer that he used to hate touring and he still very likely hates touring, but he realises rightfully that it is still the right choice to make right now in his life and he does everything he can to find ways to make touring more tolerable? What's he going to do, hit the road all the time and tell the press how much he hates touring?
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« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2019, 02:36:30 PM »

Amazing post, Billy. I'm so glad you've got a hard working spirit about you and that you're feeling better these days.

I think heíd rather be pushing himself and getting adulation from his fans than stay at home in pain watching the Tamron Hall show.

This 100%.

And to anyone who believes Brian is touring against his own will: if this were a major problem (and Brian was being forced against his will to tour and was completely unhappy with the touring arrangement), you are saying that all the band members, Brian's doctors, Brian's daughters, Brian's friends, Brian's family all completely ignore Brian's mental state. That is a huge implication. Because you're implying that those close to Brian are either too ignorant to see Brian's supposed unhappiness and depression about the situation or they are willfully allowing Brian to be controlled against his own will.

Both implications paint those around Brian to either be completely stupid or completely evil...and I know that none of those are the case. I mean when Brian was unable to handle touring recently he postponed the tour. If Brian were unable to handle it now he would cancel the rest of his touring dates. It's that simple.

Both Billy and Kid Presentable raise good points - Brian could hate touring (or the aspect of stage fright), but he pushes through his fears for his own good...all functioning adults do this. We all have fears and roadblocks we need to push through for the good of our own lives.

TBH, Shady, I get where you're coming from. When I first came to Smiley Smile there was the occasional post that talked about Brian being a vegetable (these posts would come from people who were seemingly well informed) - and thus for years it was hard for me to think that Brian could have any free will at all. Then I realized where my information was coming from and it all stemmed from a small cadre with an ax to grind about Melinda. And then you read posts from people who actually have contact with Brian and you realize that Brian is a completely different person from the vegetable that others paint him as.

Anyways, we're all entitled to our opinions, but we need to think about what our opinions imply.

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« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 02:58:30 PM »

Rab: Yes, that happened. They used to post outtakes, unused tracks, and other assorted audio through the site. In that case you referenced, and correct me if I'm wrong about what it was, an unused track from the Christmas album was posted. Then some "fans" started trashing it. Brian himself responded in an unusually angry reply, and the posting of rare tracks stopped.

So thanks to those "fans" for ruining a good thing. But like you also said, Rab, there are cases like those kids who thought it was fun to trash another album of Brian's, an album which one of them didn't even pay for but had received it as a gift and nice gesture from a fellow fan, and unfortunately some must just like to be assholes about certain things even if the reviewers couldn't agree if it was real or a joke review. Wonder how their message board is working out. No, wait, actually I could give two shits about that or them, it's past history.

So yes, indeed, some idiotic comments did scuttle what was a cool thing that was being done for Brian's fans, and I don't blame him a bit for basically telling them to f**k off. It's a sentiment I've shared many times. And if he's now not bothering to look at those comments, good for him! Who needs that bullshit when you've done what Brian Wilson has done in his lifetime.

PS - If I recall too, Brian's fans got that outtake of "What A Wonderful World" through the same online channel that got ruined by the negative comments...and that is a simply amazing track. So it was fun while it lasted, before the idiots got involved. Am I remembering that correctly?

What a damn shame.

I know Debbie said that Brian isolates himself from the critics, but perhaps people still need to ask themselves "What if Brian decided to look at Smiley Smile today?" before they post. Whether or not he would, perhaps there's a possibility that one day he'd be curious to look up The Beach Boys on google and he'd stumble across Smiley Smile.

Imagine reading that some of your "fans" think your music is "f*cking stupid". Imagine seeing your wife being called a bad manager. Imagine seeing a vocal minority claim that you have zero free will in your life. That your band members are using you for financial gain. That your wife is controlling you for financial gain. That you need to give up touring.

Brian receives so much undeserved vitriol about his life...and it's really sad to read.

Someone writes "$$$$$" as a response to why Brian tours. And they say that the band (including someone like Nicky Wonder) is/was using Brian for monetary reasons. It's a shame that people who have this mindset don't think out what their accusations fully imply...because if they did I highly doubt they'd be so quick to post these kinds of comments.
I wish you had been around in the 70s when David Leaf, among others, was accusing Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis of using Brian for monetary reasons. "Come on Brian, get in there and write us another hit song!"
Of course, it is completely acceptable to put words like that in the mouth of Satan himself, Mike Love.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2019, 03:14:52 PM »

Itís not the 70s anymore though , although at least youíve explained a bit why you belittle Brian at every possible opportunity.  Time to let some of that aggression go.
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« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2019, 03:22:49 PM »

When opinions are proven wrong by fact, then how much tolerance should there be for those who continue to insist their opinion, despite being countered by fact, is the real truth?

I'm tired of this sh*t, to be honest. The only answer is what I posted above, that Brian is the one who wants to be touring and booking more shows. The source for that info is, as some would say, absolutely impeccable.  If you don't believe me personally, that's fine...I don't care. Just accept in this case what is the truth and stop trying to claim opinion as fact.

It really is that simple. BRIAN wants to play more shows. He is not being forced. End of story.
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« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2019, 03:35:24 PM »

I wish you had been around in the 70s when David Leaf, among others, was accusing Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis of using Brian for monetary reasons. "Come on Brian, get in there and write us another hit song!"
Of course, it is completely acceptable to put words like that in the mouth of Satan himself, Mike Love.  Roll Eyes

I'm looking at the here and now....which you seem to be completely incapable of deciphering. I am partially appreciative that you do drop the occasional illogical one-liner potshots at Brian and his management (and his band for some peculiar reason) only because you open up the opportunity to converse about the topic which just may help newer fans see the fallacies in these ill-informed opinions regarding Melinda and the band.

Also, I'm glad to see that you actually have the ability to reply to my posts - maybe one day you may even try to refute any of my points.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2019, 03:47:23 PM »

First up...Billy. Well done man. Motivational stuff!

Secondly, it doesnít make sense for Brianís people to be 100% behind a movie portraying him as being bullied and controlled....then to bully and control him. Itís really that simple to me.
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« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2019, 04:01:34 PM »

First up...Billy. Well done man. Motivational stuff!

Secondly, it doesnít make sense for Brianís people to be 100% behind a movie portraying him as being bullied and controlled....then to bully and control him. Itís really that simple to me.

But that's how sadistic Melinda is! /s

It's like the moon landing conspiracy - if it was true you'd be banking on every scientist, engineer, astronaut, down to the damn janitor keeping their mouths shut. In this case, where are the throngs of roadies, band members, family of band members, family of Brian, friends of Brian, his own friggin UCLA doctors reporting this ongoing controlling behavior? Again, the implication here is that every person in contact with Brian is either completely ignorant or in on the plot. Either of which are completely asinine.

Thanks Guitarfool for your post! Sadly, like moon landing conspiracy theorists, or flat-earthers, you could literally show them direct irrefutable evidence and they'd continue to ignore it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 07:00:43 PM by rab2591 » Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2019, 04:09:10 PM »



Thanks PF....much appreciated

As for the latter, thatís one question I canít get an answer for.


Let me also clarify this wasnít directed at you Shady, more Lonely Summer Ďs post
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« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2019, 10:44:59 PM »

Itís not the 70s anymore though , although at least youíve explained a bit why you belittle Brian at every possible opportunity.  Time to let some of that aggression go.
I would never belittle Brian Wilson. That is the point. The man has given us everything and more; the music just flowed out of him for many years, he was tuned in to the channel. IMO, that alone should have earned him the right to do whatever he wants to do; he's a human being, not a machine to be turned on and off at will.
I look at the videos from recent concerts and he looks absolutely miserable, as if he would rather be anyplace but up on that stage. I recognize it is considered blasphemous to say that here, the home of those who believe everything spewed out by the Wilson camp without question. "Oh, Brian says he wants to tour, so obviously we have to believe what he says".
Right. Brian has a history of saying what he thinks the people around him expect him to say. If I believed everything Brian has ever said, then I would have to believe he should never have been separated from Landy, because Brian himself said he didn't want their partnership terminated.
So I keep looking at those concert clips on youtube, and I just see a guy in pain, looking miserable. I think he is doing the best he can, but I feel sad for the guy, ESPECIALLY after all he has given us.
Maybe i'll get banned here now. That's fine.
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« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2019, 02:57:29 AM »

Itís not the 70s anymore though , although at least youíve explained a bit why you belittle Brian at every possible opportunity.  Time to let some of that aggression go.
I would never belittle Brian Wilson. That is the point. The man has given us everything and more; the music just flowed out of him for many years, he was tuned in to the channel. IMO, that alone should have earned him the right to do whatever he wants to do; he's a human being, not a machine to be turned on and off at will.
I look at the videos from recent concerts and he looks absolutely miserable, as if he would rather be anyplace but up on that stage. I recognize it is considered blasphemous to say that here, the home of those who believe everything spewed out by the Wilson camp without question. "Oh, Brian says he wants to tour, so obviously we have to believe what he says".
Right. Brian has a history of saying what he thinks the people around him expect him to say. If I believed everything Brian has ever said, then I would have to believe he should never have been separated from Landy, because Brian himself said he didn't want their partnership terminated.
So I keep looking at those concert clips on youtube, and I just see a guy in pain, looking miserable. I think he is doing the best he can, but I feel sad for the guy, ESPECIALLY after all he has given us.
Maybe i'll get banned here now. That's fine.

Your accusations don't just belittle Brian, they belittle every person associated with him. And I contend you belittle Brian because you're assuming he is a helpless soul currently incapable of thinking for himself.

Melinda is forcing Brian to tour for a major cash flow? Even though this scenario completely disregards those who allude to the idea that the tour possibly isn't a major money maker for Brian. It also ignores sources close to Brian that say Brian wants to tour and add more dates. But let's seriously ignore the facts for a minute: Melinda is married to a guy who has a market value of $75,000,000. This probably doesn't even count any possible business ventures and investments that Melinda herself oversees on her end. So she is totally cool with the optics of forcing Brian against his will to play concerts night after night for a tour that they're probably not making a major killing from? I mean, again, when you think about the expenses this tour is probably wracking up (the marketing, security, transportation, food, hotel bookings for the entire band, paying helpers, roadies, paying Al and Blondie, paying each band member their share, and who knows what other expenses associated with such a tour) at the end of the day is it really worth it to Melinda to destroy her reputation for some minuscule amount of money (comparatively to probably what's in the bank account already)?

Or there's the other scenario which you like to spew out ad nauseam: That Brian's own band is forcing him to tour for their own personal gain. This would mean that Melinda sees how supposedly miserable Brian is on-stage and is completely ignoring his mental state. This would also mean that every friend of Brian's, family member who goes to see Brian's concerts on occasion are all completely blind to Brian being utterly miserable with his life. Also, by accusing Brian's own band of this maniacal behavior of looking past Brian's supposed misery for their own selfish gain, you are taking a pretty lousy crack at Al Jardine himself - as he closely works with Brian daily and knows his struggles and limitations (and even talked about this very thing in a recent interview).

Yes, Brian doesn't look 100% engaged at some recent concerts - but yet other concerts he looks completely into it (not too long ago when they added Friends and other tracks people were absolutely raving about the shows). The concerts I have seen in recent years, Brian was engaging the crowd with humor, would flash a smile here and there, and he was completely participating - that doesn't sound like a man being forced against his will. Also, when you consider his back surgeries (and the complications with those back surgeries) and the meds he takes for pain management (plus whatever he takes to keep his schizoaffective disorder and manic depression at bay), yeah he logically would seem a bit disengaged. But perhaps he would rather be feeling somewhat disengaged while on tour than feeling disengaged sitting alone at home. Like the post Billy wrote above about functioning adults learning to overcome their fears and roadblocks. Perhaps touring is a way for Brian to cope.

You say that "Brian has a history of saying what he thinks the people around him expect him to say" (perhaps this is true) but yet Brian doesn't really have a history of doing what others expect him to do: case in point: Brian completely shutting down for the Jeff Beck sessions. These days (when Brian isn't being pumped full of pharmaceuticals to the point of having a stroke) if Brian legitimately doesn't want to do something he doesn't do it. If he doesn't want to record an album with Jeff Beck, he doesn't do it. If he doesn't want to re-record the lead for a song, they use the demo vocal. Your point of view assumes that Brian has this on-off switch that only other people can control, that he is somehow a Manchurian candidate of sorts. Seriously, if he could be controlled the Jeff Beck sessions wouldn't have been the disaster they became.

I have written similar posts before and you don't respond to them. And I wish you would because perhaps I am COMPLETELY missing something. But you never do which makes me think you have absolutely no argument. The whole point of this discourse is to get to the truth of the matter. I legitimately couldn't give a sh*t about team Brian or team Mike. Kokomaoist or Brianista. I completely admit that I have tunnel vision about certain things regarding this fandom...and I have had my mind changed about certain subjects solely because someone was adult enough to challenge my (and others) points of view.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 04:22:05 AM by rab2591 » Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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