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658572 Posts in 26370 Topics by 3742 Members - Latest Member: Soulful Old Man River June 01, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
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Author Topic: Keep it clean with Al Jardine and watch this WIGU(TBAM) breakdown vid  (Read 1449 times)
SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2020, 08:33:43 AM »

No, I believe you! I always thought it was a really strange sound but sort of just didn't question it. That'd make a lot of sense. Gave it a try, couldn't figure out the voicings because I'm terrible at ukulele but it gets pretty close to the sound if you strum with a pick and palm mute.

So, that'd probably place Lyle on the uke, Ray on the clicky high bass, Carol on the low bass, and Bill Pitman on the electric (12-string?) guitar doubling the clarinets? Assuming I haven't got it totally wrong and those are both Fender basses rather than one being a Dano.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 08:43:35 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2020, 08:57:14 AM »

It's a strange production!  Pitman was playing a lot of Dano then but who knows!
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2020, 09:17:12 AM »

On the booted session tape you can just hear Brian telling someone to hold out until the second half, which I took to mean the 12-string because it does wait for the clarinets on take 3 and it sounded kinda like Bill Pitman's voice asking... the track's so muffled on there that I could be misidentifying Jay or Jim Horn though. The high clicky bass sounds like a Pet Sounds Pohlman thing to me, can't make my mind up on whether the lower bass is a Fender or Dano considering the similar-ish tone of the 6-string part Pitman played the day before. But yeah, what a creative 3 days in the studio! Cool Water vocals married to those arrangements would've been perfection.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 09:17:53 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
sloopjohnb72
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2020, 10:15:53 PM »

I don't know, there are a couple of moments on the session tape (LTSDD part 2) where the rhythm instrument sounds very electric - on TSS box, disc 4 track 11, at 1:17, there's a specific upstroke that sounds very guitarish, and like it's coming out of an amp. Same goes for 0:28, when the instrument is playing alone. The strumming style and voicings (only a couple notes per chord) do make me think it could be a ukulele though.
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SBonilla
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2020, 07:26:20 AM »

It sounds like a steel string uke on Love To Say Dada.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2020, 08:39:41 AM »

It sounds like a steel string uke on Love To Say Dada.

A somewhat rare practice, but certainly it's done.

Have any of you listened to Lyle's first jazz uke album?  It's a great record, and there are a few times his uke sounds pretty electric guitar-ish on that, too.
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2020, 09:48:14 AM »

It sounds like a steel string uke on Love To Say Dada.

A somewhat rare practice, but certainly it's done.

Have any of you listened to Lyle's first jazz uke album?  It's a great record, and there are a few times his uke sounds pretty electric guitar-ish on that, too.

I've had the LP for a number of years. It's a fine album! There is a change in one of the songs that uses the same change as he used in bar four of  Diamond Head.
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2020, 02:07:20 AM »

I'm back on the electric guitar train for Dada Part 2. Agree with Sloop, relistening there are some very electric-sounding strokes with a slight distortion that'd have to be coming from an amplifier rather than a mic on the strings. We compared instruments for the tone and it's definitely not a nylon-stringed uke - the voicing in that clip seems to just be a guitar open C equivalent an octave up, one finger on and off the D of the B string. It's a hollowbody sound, so I'm guessing Bill Pitman's Gibson ES-330 or Carol's Epiphone Emperor. Unless Lyle ever used an electrified steel-string uke with a pick (as far as I know he was a nylon-only guy who strummed with fingers) I think it's unlikely to be him.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2020, 01:10:33 PM »

The jury is still out for me -- however, this is interesting either way (I had used this clip, when the video first came out, to solidify my idea that there was uke on the 67 track):

https://youtu.be/OrZS6rxTqoM?t=823

Either there is uke on the original track, vindicating my initial assessment, OR it continues to prove that contemporary Brian neither remembers, cares, or has any grasp of what he was up to in those days.
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2020, 02:00:05 PM »

The jury is still out for me -- however, this is interesting either way (I had used this clip, when the video first came out, to solidify my idea that there was uke on the 67 track):

https://youtu.be/OrZS6rxTqoM?t=823

Either there is uke on the original track, vindicating my initial assessment, OR it continues to prove that contemporary Brian neither remembers, cares, or has any grasp of what he was up to in those days.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that - BWPS threw a ukulele on Do You Like Worms too! There's a ton of that sort of thing going on all over the album. Dano bass where there wasn't originally, extra harpsichord, different percussion, added horns and strings, a bassline wrongly transcribed, more acoustic guitars, random bass harmonica, a missing woodwind, etc. I guess they were on a deadline and couldn't agonise over these things like we do but still!

A microscopic one that kills me is an anecdote about Brian listening to the Worms Hawaiian bridge, getting to the two-part harmony nasal humming vocals between himself & Carl and asking how they got that sound. Van Dyke answered "it was a lap steel guitar with a vocal doubling"... so they went ahead and recorded it with someone singing alongside a guitar Embarrassed
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 02:01:04 PM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2020, 02:37:47 PM »

The jury is still out for me -- however, this is interesting either way (I had used this clip, when the video first came out, to solidify my idea that there was uke on the 67 track):

https://youtu.be/OrZS6rxTqoM?t=823

Either there is uke on the original track, vindicating my initial assessment, OR it continues to prove that contemporary Brian neither remembers, cares, or has any grasp of what he was up to in those days.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that - BWPS threw a ukulele on Do You Like Worms too! There's a ton of that sort of thing going on all over the album. Dano bass where there wasn't originally, extra harpsichord, different percussion, added horns and strings, a bassline wrongly transcribed, more acoustic guitars, random bass harmonica, a missing woodwind, etc. I guess they were on a deadline and couldn't agonise over these things like we do but still!

A microscopic one that kills me is an anecdote about Brian listening to the Worms Hawaiian bridge, getting to the two-part harmony nasal humming vocals between himself & Carl and asking how they got that sound. Van Dyke answered "it was a lap steel guitar with a vocal doubling"... so they went ahead and recorded it with someone singing alongside a guitar Embarrassed


Wow...tough room.

PS - Watching the recording of the BWPS album as linked above is pure joy for me, and erases many if not all of the misconceptions and false information that went around regarding Brian's role in making that album. You're seeing a guy produce amazing music after so many counted him out in that role. Essential viewing.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2020, 04:01:52 PM »

It's a wonderful clip, but it's frustrating as a musicologist when it's just as hard to get answers about what musicians were playing in 1967 when the dude who orchestrated the music is still alive as it is to figure out what musicians were playing in 1667 (My other musicological special interest).  Buxtehude, of course, being long dead!
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juggler
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« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2020, 01:17:00 AM »

It's a strange production!  Pitman was playing a lot of Dano then but who knows!

Not to derail the thread, but I was just looking up something about one of Bill Pitman's guitars... and I stumbled on the fact that Bill celebrated his 100th birthday a couple months ago.  How freakin' cool is that?   Was I the only one who was unaware of this milestone??
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2020, 05:51:31 AM »

I knew he was getting close to the century but I didn't remember the exact day.  That is indeed amazing and I'm glad he is still around.  To many more years, Bill!
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SaltyMarshmallow
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2020, 11:59:04 AM »

Wow, incredible! I had no idea he was that old. Fantastic musician and probably my favourite regular on the Smile era sessions, his fuzz bass sound was amazing. Even if his dismissive attitude to playing on those Beach Boys dates is pretty funny. Hope he sticks around for a while longer.

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It's a wonderful clip, but it's frustrating as a musicologist when it's just as hard to get answers about what musicians were playing in 1967 when the dude who orchestrated the music is still alive as it is to figure out what musicians were playing in 1667 (My other musicological special interest).

^ Nail, head. I have a lot of appreciation for BWPS (and it's great to see any footage of Brian working like that) but I do have a lot of conflicting feelings over the studio version and wish it better established its own identity, either by doubling down on the new live performance elements as a polished in-studio-recreation OR by going to greater lengths to mimic the 60s recordings. As it stands it feels like a weird compromise that hasn't held up too well on its own post-2011. Like, I'm still not sure why they axed some of the string/horn additions from the live performances while keeping others, or went to the trouble of doing it in sections when the band knew the arrangements and were more than capable of playing whole songs start to finish. It's odd. I don't know. Still like some of it. Anyway, I'm getting off topic!

Joshilyn, if/when you do get a ukulele the Vegetables fade is one I'd love to see some kind of breakdown for. That's a monster of an arrangement.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 12:01:54 PM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
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