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Author Topic: Lead Vocals on 1970's The Flame  (Read 1744 times)
Ninten
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« on: August 22, 2019, 06:50:06 PM »

I've been listening to The Flame's self-titled 1970 album a lot lately (what an incredible album!). It occurred to me though that not all of the vocals sound like Blondie. In particular, Don't Worry Bill, Get Your Mind Made Up (verses), Highs and Lows, and Another Day Like Heaven sound like someone other than Blondie is singing.

Does anyone have any idea who sings lead vocals on which tracks? I've tried to A/B some of the tracks with Ricky's leads on The Rutles album to figure out which songs could be him, but I can't figure it out.
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marcella27
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 10:03:46 PM »

I think some of the songs are Steve  Fataar but I could be wrong.  I agree with you that it's a great album .  To me it's a tragedy that this band never became well known outside of South Africa. 
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 11:08:03 PM »

Steve sings most other leads on that album. As was also the case on their previous Flames albums.
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 01:34:09 AM »

Wasn't there talk about a re-release of this wonderful album, probably including the unreleased second record, or did I dream that?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 01:53:06 AM by Rocker » Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 11:34:43 AM »

COMMENT

I'm sitting here looking at the “THE FLAME Complete” CD featuring everything produced by Carl Wilson and Engineered and Mixed by myself. It has all the music written and performed by Steve Fataar, Blondy Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, and Brother Fataar, between 1969 to 1971.

I can tell you exactly who sang on what from my production notes, but the last time I ventured into naming vocalists on this thread, no one believed me and proceeded to destroy my reputation and hurt me financially. That ended with the removal of my website and the freely offered book Recording The Beach Boys, Parts one, two and three. So I will not comment further, other than to list the complete selection of songs on the CD.

By the time the group recorded the last nine songs, their recording and production skills had matured to the point that Carl let the group self-produce, leaving them along with me in the studio, and WOW did they ever come up with some fantastic sounding creations, even better than the first eleven, especially #19, highly commercial. Some songs have orchestral backing. Unlike the LP, all selections on this completely mastered CD are in Surround Stereo, that is, resolved through the matrix, and sound as good as anything you can buy today. It’s a shame this creative project is still in the vault. Through the years I myself have arranged deals with three other labels to release the complete album, but every time BRI lawyers took so long to review the contracts that the labels lost interest.

1.    See the Light – 3:02
2.    Make It Easy – 3:03
3.    Hey Lord – 4:44
4.    Lady – 3:25
5.    Don’t Worry Bill – 3:16
6.    Get your Mind Made up – 4:07
7.    Highs and Lows – 4:50
8.    I’m So Happy – 3:14
9.    Dove – 2:17
10.  Another Day Like Heaven – 5:41
11.  See the Light (Reprise) – 1:24
12.  Mother of the Century – 6:31
13.  Sigh, Baby, Sigh – 3:29
14.  High Overdrive – 4:14
15.  Sunny Skies – 4:36
16.  Thank Someone – 4:33
17.  Seven Sisters – 3:57
18.  Have You Ever Been – 2:44
19.  Henry’s Son – 5:04
20.  Sweet Jane – 6:27

Interestingly, all the songs fit onto one CD leaving only seconds remaining from the total time allowed by Red Book standards.   ~SWD

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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 05:15:26 PM »

a shame Stephen,
   I think a lot of fans would love to hear and own this.... (including me)  Shocked
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 07:02:25 PM »

That The Flame Complete CD sounds incredible! I'd kill to have it. I can only imagine how good the remaining songs are, considering how much I love the first 11.

It's also a big shame about that previous incident. I really enjoyed your study videos, Stephen.
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 07:09:50 PM »

20.  Sweet Jane – 6:27
Can anyone shed any light on if this a cover or an original composition?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 07:58:48 PM »

20.  Sweet Jane – 6:27
Can anyone shed any light on if this a cover or an original composition?

COMMENT:  All Flame songs are original creations.

After an elaborated dual guitar into, the first line is ... "Sweet Jane, you're passing through my head."


~swd
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marcella27
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 10:24:23 PM »

a shame Stephen,
   I think a lot of fans would love to hear and own this.... (including me)  Shocked

It really is incredibly frustrating that it’s never been released.  I too would love to hear it and hope that someday it will see the light...no pun intended. 
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 10:35:54 PM »

Actually, since we’re on the topic, can someone please remind me why the second album wasn’t released in the first place? 
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2019, 11:45:03 PM »

I looked up some information on google, and found this site: http://www.thekinseyreport.com/the%20flames.htm

It lists three more songs, "I'm a Man", "Hello", "Everybody" as outtakes from The Flames' 2nd LP, along with the mention on a bootleg tape with them performing songs like I've Got a Feeling and Gimme Shelter on stage.

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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2019, 02:07:51 AM »

Thanks Stehphen W.! I love that album. What a strong (US-)debut. It sounds so fresh and alive. Just good ol' Rock'n'Roll. And the guys definitely had their own style. Blondie's first solo album sounds a little too polished imo although it still has grit.
I'm looking forward to Blondie's new album which is supposed to come out this year: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26553.0.html




Actually, since we’re on the topic, can someone please remind me why the second album wasn’t released in the first place?  


I believe the group disbanded before a release happened and so it went into the vaults. But I'm not positive on that, it's just what I recall.





I looked up some information on google, and found this site: http://www.thekinseyreport.com/the%20flames.htm

It lists three more songs, "I'm a Man", "Hello", "Everybody" as outtakes from The Flames' 2nd LP, along with the mention on a bootleg tape with them performing songs like I've Got a Feeling and Gimme Shelter on stage.




Yes, IIRC there is a AR tape making the rounds of the Boys' gig at the Whisky (1970?) with The Flame opening the show with the mentioned songs a.o.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2019, 02:51:38 AM »

Thanks Stehphen W.! I love that album. What a strong (US-)debut. It sounds so fresh and alive. Just good ol' Rock'n'Roll. And the guys definitely had their own style. Blondie's first solo album sounds a little too polished imo although it still has grit.
I'm looking forward to Blondie's new album which is supposed to come out this year: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26553.0.html




Actually, since we’re on the topic, can someone please remind me why the second album wasn’t released in the first place?  


I believe the group disbanded before a release happened and so it went into the vaults. But I'm not positive on that, it's just what I recall.





I looked up some information on google, and found this site: http://www.thekinseyreport.com/the%20flames.htm

It lists three more songs, "I'm a Man", "Hello", "Everybody" as outtakes from The Flames' 2nd LP, along with the mention on a bootleg tape with them performing songs like I've Got a Feeling and Gimme Shelter on stage.




Yes, IIRC there is a AR tape making the rounds of the Boys' gig at the Whisky (1970?) with The Flame opening the show with the mentioned songs a.o.

COMMENT to Rocker:

The times I've tried to work a deal with other labels has always lead to issues involving who owns the copyright. StarDay King may own it as part of the original contract, but now defunct or in legal limbo, the group itself - but with some members back in South Africa or deceased hard to negotiate, Brother Records, and then Blondie himself has contested several issues concerning his interests. All this resulting in those involved afraid of litigation if no clear owner is identified. At this point, no clear, legal owner of the copyright has been designated making the release of the material subject to a confusing future and possible costly legal battle.

The outtakes mentioned were never finished.

Allan Boyd and I did obtain permission to play the unreleased songs at a BB convention several decades ago. That Playback was provided to fans who had to mount headphones, so no recording of the sound could take place. We set up a large table with a dozen headphones available for anyone to sit down and listen. Many fans did. 
~swd
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2019, 03:24:29 AM »

Thanks Stehphen W.! I love that album. What a strong (US-)debut. It sounds so fresh and alive. Just good ol' Rock'n'Roll. And the guys definitely had their own style. Blondie's first solo album sounds a little too polished imo although it still has grit.
I'm looking forward to Blondie's new album which is supposed to come out this year: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26553.0.html




Actually, since we’re on the topic, can someone please remind me why the second album wasn’t released in the first place?  


I believe the group disbanded before a release happened and so it went into the vaults. But I'm not positive on that, it's just what I recall.





I looked up some information on google, and found this site: http://www.thekinseyreport.com/the%20flames.htm

It lists three more songs, "I'm a Man", "Hello", "Everybody" as outtakes from The Flames' 2nd LP, along with the mention on a bootleg tape with them performing songs like I've Got a Feeling and Gimme Shelter on stage.




Yes, IIRC there is a AR tape making the rounds of the Boys' gig at the Whisky (1970?) with The Flame opening the show with the mentioned songs a.o.

COMMENT to Rocker:

The times I've tried to work a deal with other labels has always lead to issues involving who owns the copyright. StarDay King may own it as part of the original contract, but now defunct or in legal limbo, the group itself - but with some members back in South Africa or deceased hard to negotiate, Brother Records, and then Blondie himself has contested several issues concerning his interests. All this resulting in those involved afraid of litigation if no clear owner is identified. At this point, no clear, legal owner of the copyright has been designated making the release of the material subject to a confusing future and possible costly legal battle.

The outtakes mentioned were never finished.

Allan Boyd and I did obtain permission to play the unreleased songs at a BB convention several decades ago. That Playback was provided to fans who had to mount headphones, so no recording of the sound could take place. We set up a large table with a dozen headphones available for anyone to sit down and listen. Many fans did. 
~swd



Thanks for that information!
It's a shame that this album (and the second one) can't get a re-release. I mean, it's such a good record. But I also understand that apart from the legal problems the question probably is if this one would sell. The band is not very well known, mostly to Beach Boys fans, I'd guess. On the other hand that Beach Boys community might boost some sales. Well, wishful thinking, I guess.

But while we're on topic, Stephen, do you recall if Carl played on any of the tracks (of the first album) or if he stayed out of that completely and kept to the production role?
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2019, 05:59:58 AM »


But while we're on topic, Stephen, do you recall if Carl played on any of the tracks (of the first album) or if he stayed out of that completely and kept to the production role?

COMMENT to Rocker:

Carl's role was as a producer.  The released and unreleased production(s) is all THE FLAME.  The band had so much talent, any assistance was unnecessary. What was required was the channeling or focusing of that talent to the task at hand. And I would say that Carl did a suburb job at fulfilling his role.
~swd
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2019, 08:25:48 AM »

Some mouth-watering info here!
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »


But while we're on topic, Stephen, do you recall if Carl played on any of the tracks (of the first album) or if he stayed out of that completely and kept to the production role?

COMMENT to Rocker:

Carl's role was as a producer.  The released and unreleased production(s) is all THE FLAME.  The band had so much talent, any assistance was unnecessary. What was required was the channeling or focusing of that talent to the task at hand. And I would say that Carl did a suburb job at fulfilling his role.
~swd


Definitely! I just thought that since Carl didn't seem to play this kind of Rock very often with the Beach Boys, he might have played a little on the record just for the fun of it. But yes, great band. I also like the way the Beach Boys incorporated "Don't worry Bill" into their shows. It goes together really well with "Wonderful".
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2019, 09:24:50 AM »

20.  Sweet Jane – 6:27
Can anyone shed any light on if this a cover or an original composition?

COMMENT:  All Flame songs are original creations.

After an elaborated dual guitar into, the first line is ... "Sweet Jane, you're passing through my head."


Thank you for your reply, Stephen; your contributions to the board always bring enlightening revelations about this band's surprisingly murky history.

~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2019, 10:54:10 AM »

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Definitely! I just thought that since Carl didn't seem to play this kind of Rock very often with the Beach Boys, he might have played a little on the record just for the fun of it. But yes, great band. I also like the way the Beach Boys incorporated "Don't worry Bill" into their shows. It goes together really well with "Wonderful".

COMMENT to Rocker:   Well there --- you said it!   
Carl would definitely jam with them on breaks in the studio, for the delight of it. But he wanted it to be their album, totally, so back to the control room during actual takes. 

And on the road or in clubs, well, that's different. There, the spirit of musical comradery cannot be contained. I've seen Carl open up without reservation and do the junk jam thing -- as he use to say . . .

"Too Much! All Right! Out of Sight!" really fast.  While at the same time, snapping his right-hand fingers, then snapping his left-hand fingers while at the same time bringing both hands to a clap. You can do this too. Just do it all really fast -- both speaking the phrases and making with the hands, on the third phrase --- all in a matter of seconds. Give it a try!

CARL WILSON remembered >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk7uE65Mv28

~swd 
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2019, 12:34:53 PM »

Will try that!  Cheesy
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2019, 06:24:18 PM »

I always wondered about Carl playing on that album as well; part of me held out hope that he was responsible for some of the guitar work.  Great album for sure!
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2019, 06:53:55 PM »

I always wondered about Carl playing on that album as well; part of me held out hope that he was responsible for some of the guitar work.  Great album for sure!

COMMENT to pickuppthosesticks:  On second thought, check with Blondie. But as far as I can remember, it's all The Flame. Funny, just thinking back on this, the only two people of who you might ask any questions about these sessions is Blondie or me. Everyone else is either unreachable or passed.

Since I'm still here, you better start picking my mind.  ~swd
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2019, 07:14:39 PM »

Well, sure: I'll throw a couple things out there.  I am curious to know your opinion of Carl's abilities on guitar.  I read a lot about how his ability was stifled by the group's image and having to play the hits in concert.  In the studio would he ever just wail on the guitar and try different things outside the group's image?  And in regards the to Flame album, would you say that the band had a clear idea of how they wanted the record to sound and Carl as producer just facilitated, or did he have more of an active creative push that guided the sound?
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marcella27
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2019, 08:25:23 PM »

I always wondered about Carl playing on that album as well; part of me held out hope that he was responsible for some of the guitar work.  Great album for sure!

COMMENT to pickuppthosesticks:  On second thought, check with Blondie. But as far as I can remember, it's all The Flame. Funny, just thinking back on this, the only two people of who you might ask any questions about these sessions is Blondie or me. Everyone else is either unreachable or passed.

Since I'm still here, you better start picking my mind.  ~swd


Wouldn't Ricky Fataar have been at the sessions and still able to comment today?   Realize he's pretty much out of the BB orbit, but still around.  Having said that, here's a non-musical question for Mr. Desper.   In pictures and film footage from that era, I've noticed that Carl and Ricky often seem to be hanging out together.  Were they particularly friendly?  I always imagined that they would have gotten along well, both of them seeming to have personalities that didn't demand being the constant center of attention, but a quiet, dry sense of humour. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 08:27:07 PM by marcella27 » Logged
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