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Author Topic: German Manson doc. feat. Desper, Stebbins a. o.  (Read 1287 times)
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« on: August 09, 2019, 11:54:32 AM »

Among those others are Gregg Jakobson, Ed Roach and Dominic Priore. Unfortunately it's not just german subtitles but the whole synchronisation. Anyway, maybe some of you still want to take a look. The Dennis-Manson relationship gets quite some time in this documentary. Even the TV performance of "Never learn.." is shown (although in the same quality as on youtube).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMu4LFB0bQM  



EDIT:

BTW, Stephen Desper if you read this, is that a Pendleton that you're wearing?  Cool


EDIT 2:

I'm just through watching this. It seems like the original title of the movie is "Manson: Music from an unsound mind". So maybe you can find it in english somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 01:18:36 PM by Rocker » Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 01:17:53 AM »

The link you posted doesnt work in the US but  did some digging and the english version will be downlodable from itunes in a couple days for 12.99! and Sept 17th it'll be on dvd for around $10 bucks from target/best buy/etc its on preorder right now.... It looks interesting from the preview. I'm always interested to hear from Jakobson as he probably collaborated more with him than just about anyone besides the BB

Here is the itunes link to download/buy it when it comes out August 13th, looks like definitely the soonest way to watch it (and easiest):
https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/manson-music-from-an-unsound-mind/id1473512562

anyways, thanks for posting this, would not have known about it otherwise!

Edit: oh wow it says it has Jon Stebbins and Ed roach in it too...they both post on here also! also a ton of other people listed if you read the description from the itunes link above. pretty exciting. cant believe we havent heard of this before considering all the people interviewed who post on this board.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 01:23:54 AM by Needleinthehay » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 02:00:30 AM »

Thanks for finding out more, Needleinthehay! I didn't realize the link wasn't working in th U.S.

The movie focuses quite a lot on the Wilson-Melcher-Jakobson-Manson relationship. And as far as I can say, all very well done and told.

Again for everybody, the original name is "Manson: Music from an unsound mind".
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 01:04:10 PM »

This English version link works for me.

https://youtu.be/65Ft0Bp49ys
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »

Quote
BTW, Stephen Desper if you read this, is that a Pendleton that you're wearing?  Cool

COMMENT to Rocker:

If your question is about the shirt I’m wearing in the interview, then Yes, it is an official Pendleton Woolen Mills, pure virgin wool, made in Portland Oregon, U.S.A. It is one of a dozen or so Pendleton shirts I have in my closet. You have a very astute eye. Funny you should ask, as before the film crew arrived at my home, I looked back into clothing I have in a backroom closet and found the very shirt I wore when recording Manson. I thought it would be a hoot to wear that for the interview, but unfortunately, my waist back then was 28 inches and is now 34 inches. Needless to say, I could not button it up and the shoulders were too small.

I have seen the entire film release in English and can say that of the Manson films I’ve seen, this one is one of the best with respect to the musical aspect of this subject.  I always have said that the Manson Demo Recording is a demo gone very bad. I said that during the interview for this film, but then I said a lot of things during the 45-minute interview, but so much ended up on the editing room floor.

I have many times wondered if my negative judgment of Manson’s demo to Brother Records – and thus their inaction to move forward to sign him as an act – was in that action the origin or beginning of Charles’ thinking that eventually lead him to act in the way that ended up horribly taking so many innocent lives. Not that I feel guilty or responsible, but just looking back at the sequence of events, it seems to me that if I had judged Manson in a more positive light, history may have been more gentle.

According to Brad Elliott's book "Surf's Up!": Dennis befriended Manson in August of 1968. The Tate-Labianca murders were in August of 1969. Backdating would place the sessions to around June-July of 1969. The Manson sessions were recorded onto an 8-track (the house studio went 16-track in December) and never mixed down to 2-track. The guitar he brought with him was so bad-sounding that I found a twelve thousand dollar Martin guitar in the supply area of the studio and gave it to him to use for the recordings. He did show appreciation for that gesture. I recorded to multi-track thinking he would want to double his voice or add a second guitar part or a bass line, but all he did was play the guitar and sing once. Only two of the eight tracks were used per song. He complained that the Neumann U-67 used to pick up his guitar was restricting his playing style, so I changed it to a smaller Shure.

The Beach Boys recorded one Manson song, 20/20's intense Never Learn Not To Love, credited to Dennis who explained later that Manson didn't want a label credit, he wanted money instead. By then Dennis had given Manson (or Manson had just taken) about $100,000 worth of stuff, so consider that a payoff for the song.

Manson originally titled his song, Cease To Exist after a line in the song. The Beach Boys changed the line to cease to resist and retiled the song.  After Manson was charged with the murders, friends of his dredged up tapes of Manson singing and playing acoustic guitar at a cult party in 1968 or 1969. The tapes were hastily packaged as an album entitled LIE. Included on the album was Cease To Exist, as written and performed by Manson.
(1970 ESP (LP) by Charles Manson  LIE is  Production  Phil 12258)
The single version of Never Learn Not to Love, in addition to being a shorter edit than the 20/20 version, ends with an echo effect that is missing on the LP.

Manson’s LIE sells for $225 on ebay. 

The Beach Boy’s 20/20 sells for just $20 on ebay 

The Single sells for $9.00 on ebay.

More movies have been produced about Manson then Dennis and it is fair to say that Manson’s name and image is more widely known than the Beach Boy Drummer’s.

Charles Manson outlived Dennis Wilson by 34 years.

Any way you figure this, it seems Manson may have become more of a rock star then anyone of us would have imagined.
  ~swd
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 11:12:53 PM »

Quote
BTW, Stephen Desper if you read this, is that a Pendleton that you're wearing?  Cool

COMMENT to Rocker:

If your question is about the shirt I’m wearing in the interview, then Yes, it is an official Pendleton Woolen Mills, pure virgin wool, made in Portland Oregon, U.S.A. It is one of a dozen or so Pendleton shirts I have in my closet. You have a very astute eye. Funny you should ask, as before the film crew arrived at my home, I looked back into clothing I have in a backroom closet and found the very shirt I wore when recording Manson. I thought it would be a hoot to wear that for the interview, but unfortunately, my waist back then was 28 inches and is now 34 inches. Needless to say, I could not button it up and the shoulders were too small.

I have seen the entire film release in English and can say that of the Manson films I’ve seen, this one is one of the best with respect to the musical aspect of this subject.  I always have said that the Manson Demo Recording is a demo gone very bad. I said that during the interview for this film, but then I said a lot of things during the 45-minute interview, but so much ended up on the editing room floor.

I have many times wondered if my negative judgment of Manson’s demo to Brother Records – and thus their inaction to move forward to sign him as an act – was in that action the origin or beginning of Charles’ thinking that eventually lead him to act in the way that ended up horribly taking so many innocent lives. Not that I feel guilty or responsible, but just looking back at the sequence of events, it seems to me that if I had judged Manson in a more positive light, history may have been more gentle.

According to Brad Elliott's book "Surf's Up!": Dennis befriended Manson in August of 1968. The Tate-Labianca murders were in August of 1969. Backdating would place the sessions to around June-July of 1969. The Manson sessions were recorded onto an 8-track (the house studio went 16-track in December) and never mixed down to 2-track. The guitar he brought with him was so bad-sounding that I found a twelve thousand dollar Martin guitar in the supply area of the studio and gave it to him to use for the recordings. He did show appreciation for that gesture. I recorded to multi-track thinking he would want to double his voice or add a second guitar part or a bass line, but all he did was play the guitar and sing once. Only two of the eight tracks were used per song. He complained that the Neumann U-67 used to pick up his guitar was restricting his playing style, so I changed it to a smaller Shure.

The Beach Boys recorded one Manson song, 20/20's intense Never Learn Not To Love, credited to Dennis who explained later that Manson didn't want a label credit, he wanted money instead. By then Dennis had given Manson (or Manson had just taken) about $100,000 worth of stuff, so consider that a payoff for the song.

Manson originally titled his song, Cease To Exist after a line in the song. The Beach Boys changed the line to cease to resist and retiled the song.  After Manson was charged with the murders, friends of his dredged up tapes of Manson singing and playing acoustic guitar at a cult party in 1968 or 1969. The tapes were hastily packaged as an album entitled LIE. Included on the album was Cease To Exist, as written and performed by Manson.
(1970 ESP (LP) by Charles Manson  LIE is  Production  Phil 12258)
The single version of Never Learn Not to Love, in addition to being a shorter edit than the 20/20 version, ends with an echo effect that is missing on the LP.

Manson’s LIE sells for $225 on ebay. 

The Beach Boy’s 20/20 sells for just $20 on ebay 

The Single sells for $9.00 on ebay.

More movies have been produced about Manson then Dennis and it is fair to say that Manson’s name and image is more widely known than the Beach Boy Drummer’s.

Charles Manson outlived Dennis Wilson by 34 years.

Any way you figure this, it seems Manson may have become more of a rock star then anyone of us would have imagined.
  ~swd


This is fascinating insight, Stephen.

Did you see "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood"?
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 02:25:39 AM »

Quote
BTW, Stephen Desper if you read this, is that a Pendleton that you're wearing?  Cool

COMMENT to Rocker:

If your question is about the shirt I’m wearing in the interview, then Yes, it is an official Pendleton Woolen Mills, pure virgin wool, made in Portland Oregon, U.S.A. It is one of a dozen or so Pendleton shirts I have in my closet. You have a very astute eye. Funny you should ask, as before the film crew arrived at my home, I looked back into clothing I have in a backroom closet and found the very shirt I wore when recording Manson. I thought it would be a hoot to wear that for the interview, but unfortunately, my waist back then was 28 inches and is now 34 inches. Needless to say, I could not button it up and the shoulders were too small.





That's cool! I don't own one nor have I ever seen one in person but the image of the Beach Boys on the Surfer Girl and Surfin' Safari albums and the ones of the Boys in 2012 with the new Pendletons is stuck in my mind:




Also cool to know that I'm not the only person who can't throw away some of his clothes even though I'll never wear them again.  Cheesy



Quote
I have many times wondered if my negative judgment of Manson’s demo to Brother Records – and thus their inaction to move forward to sign him as an act – was in that action the origin or beginning of Charles’ thinking that eventually lead him to act in the way that ended up horribly taking so many innocent lives. Not that I feel guilty or responsible, but just looking back at the sequence of events, it seems to me that if I had judged Manson in a more positive light, history may have been more gentle.


I can see what you mean. But judging from the impression of Manson's acting that I get from this documentary and other stories from people who got to know him, I guess he was not someone you could work with in a traditional sense and sooner or later everyone would come to that same conclusion, no matter how good the songs were (and there's definitely some interesting stuff of his). 
But I agree that it is an interesting thought. What would have happened if Manson made it big. I guess everybody would let him the big star and have all the money if only he and his "family" would never have killed anybody. But would fame really change a person who has that criminal instinct inside of him? Wouldn't it maybe even help him to be able to built a mob-like scene, especially since he, according to the new documentary, tried to be a pimp from early on in his life who lets other people do the dirty work for him? It's all speculation of course but I don't know if success in music would have made Manson a "good guy".


Quote
The single version of Never Learn Not to Love, in addition to being a shorter edit than the 20/20 version, ends with an echo effect that is missing on the LP.

This is something that I find really exciting. The Beach Boys have quite a number of songs that were released as singles in a different form. I would love to have an official CD release of those single versions. It goes back as far as "Fun, fun, fun" (different mix) and "Be true to your school" (different version, obviously), maybe even earlier, I'm not sure. IMO that would be an interesting release and it would get out some of the lesser known songs to the public, while still featuring some of the big sellers.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 11:54:12 AM »

COMMENT to Rocker:  Thanks for the photo of Pendletion shirts. I remember reading that the boys signed a promotional deal with the shirt manufacturer, so perhaps this photo is the result. I had never seen the photo, but I looked at my collection of Pendletion''s and found that I have every version except the one Bruce is wearing.  My collection was given to me by my late Mother over a period of five years at Christmas. She would send me three per year. Of the fifteen, thirteen remain. Two shrank from washing, so I learned "you don't wash wool or it will shrink, stupid." Now every time they come back from the dry cleaners they look like new, even being decades old.

For what it's worth . . . back in the '60s & '70s, the Beach Boys had quite a number of promotional tee-shirts, sweatshirts, hats, and pullovers made for Beach Boy promotions. I still have a number of these collectible articles of apparel, brand new, never used, medium and large. They are not for sale.

My prize shirt is one of the stripped versions. Dennis gave it to me when he outgrew it.  It's two sizes too small for me now, but of course, the historical value is unquestionable.

Also kept in a trunk with all this stuff are my old boots, affectionately know as Desper's Mixing Boots.  You see early on I needed a good pair of shoes to stand up to the riggers of being a roadie. I needed ankle support so bought a pair of quality suede boots. Started wearing them before 20/20 on the road. Since 20/20 was recorded in Hollywood, London, Rome, Berlin, Paris and New York City, I continued to wear these boots for all concerts and recordings. So the boots have a history of being on my feet while mixing at least a thousand concerts, climbing around in rigging above the stage, and crawling back into airplane and bus luggage compartments (under the seating compartment) to arrange equipment for maximum packing efficiency. These boots have been in 48 States, most countries of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and behind the Iron Curtain. In addition, I wore the boots for all the songs and sessions of 20/20, Sunflower, and Surf’s Up, and everything in between – including the Manson sessions. My feet have grown since those days, but the boots survive in a steamer trunk for sentimental reasons.
~swd
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:00:45 PM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2019, 04:52:58 PM »

Hi Stephen
Great posts, always appreciate your info/insight.

I'd be curious to see those collectible shirts/hats/etc...I assume basically no one has ever seen them? If you ever feel like taking a picture or two and posting them on here I'm sure we'd all love to see them! Unless theyre ones that are readily available on ebay and stuff, but if they're super rare I'm sure we'd all get a kick out of it if you get a chance.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 04:54:10 PM by Needleinthehay » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2019, 05:37:59 PM »

COMMENT:

MANSON: music from an unsound mind

A couple of months ago I agreed to an interview about Manson after refusing interviews on that subject for the last 10 years. I agreed because the filmmaker had previously interviewed me for a film about Brian. He treated my interview with such professionalism that I agreed. Other films on this subject seem to focus on the mayhem rather than the music. But it is the music that drives all the ambition, expectation and disappointment. Tempered by Manson's madness, while swimming in the distorted view of life that drugs can produce, the resulting savagery surrounding a simple demo recording lead to the trial of blood concluded not only with meaningless deaths, but extending its influence even to you who are reading this. That is the real story and is the subject of this film. which I have viewed. Glad to be part of a sensible and not-so-much sensational exposé. The commentary is some of the best I've heard on documentaries, like this. I certainly did learn much more than I knew before seeing the film. It imparted a clear picture of Manson's motives and motions. I especially liked the treatment given the Beach Boys and Dennis' involvement. It showed a sensitivity toward Dennis and how this all affected him, possibly more than any of us knew in the end. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ~swd
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 09:53:05 AM »

COMMENT:

MANSON: music from an unsound mind

A couple of months ago I agreed to an interview about Manson after refusing interviews on that subject for the last 10 years. I agreed because the filmmaker had previously interviewed me for a film about Brian. He treated my interview with such professionalism that I agreed. Other films on this subject seem to focus on the mayhem rather than the music. But it is the music that drives all the ambition, expectation and disappointment. Tempered by Manson's madness, while swimming in the distorted view of life that drugs can produce, the resulting savagery surrounding a simple demo recording lead to the trial of blood concluded not only with meaningless deaths, but extending its influence even to you who are reading this. That is the real story and is the subject of this film. which I have viewed. Glad to be part of a sensible and not-so-much sensational exposé. The commentary is some of the best I've heard on documentaries, like this. I certainly did learn much more than I knew before seeing the film. It imparted a clear picture of Manson's motives and motions. I especially liked the treatment given the Beach Boys and Dennis' involvement. It showed a sensitivity toward Dennis and how this all affected him, possibly more than any of us knew in the end. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED ~swd




I totally agree that this movie is very well done, informative and treats Dennis, the Beach Boys but also the other people involved with respect. No tabloid stuff or whatsoever. Thanks for your thoughts about this.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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