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649763 Posts in 25977 Topics by 3702 Members - Latest Member: GV August 23, 2019, 11:53:56 PM
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Author Topic: Terry Melcher  (Read 5728 times)
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« Reply #125 on: August 05, 2019, 04:19:32 AM »

Were Dennis and Terry still friends after the Manson episode?
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« Reply #126 on: August 05, 2019, 06:46:47 AM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

Further, even a #3 album probably didn't net them a ton of money. It's *extremely* hard to get like uber-rich off of releasing music at this stage. The tour would have been a hundred times more lucrative than even a #1 album staying on the charts for multiple weeks.

I think they did "Isn't It Time" simply because that's the tour/album/single cycle they were used to and went ahead and followed.

Now, I'm not saying they had no chance at any additional non-touring success. Somebody should have been pushing multiple TWGMTR cuts to films and film trailers. "Spring Vacation" and "Isn't It Time" should have been in some movie and/or trailer. They could have gotten more mileage and synergy out if it.

"Isn't It Time" was never going to be a hit single, but it could have ended up a bit less inert if the whole project wasn't a lame duck situation by that point.

Frankly, we're lucky that by that point it's likely that contracts had already been signed to do a live C50 album and live Blu-ray. Otherwise we may not have even gotten those.
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« Reply #127 on: August 05, 2019, 11:43:03 PM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

 
Yeah, I know it sounds impressive to say they had a #3 album, but if the charts had been set up that way back in the 80's, with everything being about pre-release sales, I think Still Cruisin' or the 1985 album could have had a high debut like that, too. I seriously doubt TWGMTR outsold either of those albums. And those albums both had something TWGMTR lacked - a hit single. We tend to put down Getcha Back as a minor success, but if the 2012 reunion had produced a top 40 single, we'd all be screaming glory hallelujah!
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« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2019, 06:52:01 AM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

 
Yeah, I know it sounds impressive to say they had a #3 album, but if the charts had been set up that way back in the 80's, with everything being about pre-release sales, I think Still Cruisin' or the 1985 album could have had a high debut like that, too. I seriously doubt TWGMTR outsold either of those albums. And those albums both had something TWGMTR lacked - a hit single. We tend to put down Getcha Back as a minor success, but if the 2012 reunion had produced a top 40 single, we'd all be screaming glory hallelujah!

It's hard to say; if I wanted to make money in 2012, I'd rather have a #3 album than a Top 40 single.

I suppose it's debatable whether Getcha Back's #26 chart placement constituted a hit, but I don't think "Still Cruisin" spawned any hit singles. It included a then-year-old #1 single in "Kokomo", but anything actually pulled from the album as a single tanked. "Still Cruisin" as a single barely hit the Top 100, and "Somewhere Near Japan" didn't even chart.

While a #3 album in 2012 didn't and doesn't mean what it would have back in the 60s or 70s, it was still a surprisingly strong chart showing all things considered, namely: The band had been dormant for 20 years as far as new studio releases, Mike had overextended and diluted the name brand with excessive touring, the TWGMTR album was getting generally solid but not rave reviews, and they released it not prior to, but rather over a month *into* the C50 tour. While the PR on the entire reunion project and tour were great, as good as can be expected, I'm not sure how much marketing muscle Capitol put behind the album. This was pre-UMe of course.
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« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2019, 07:49:49 AM »

The Still Cruisin' album did go Gold, and eventually Platinum, though - presumably due to the inclusions of "Kokomo" and "Wipeout" (the latter of which, we must remember, was a No. 12 single in the States...and, shockingly, a No. 2 single in the U.K.).
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« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2019, 09:14:27 AM »

The Still Cruisin' album did go Gold, and eventually Platinum, though - presumably due to the inclusions of "Kokomo" and "Wipeout" (the latter of which, we must remember, was a No. 12 single in the States...and, shockingly, a No. 2 single in the U.K.).

I'm sure it was mainly "Kokomo" that got it gold status (let's remember it was the first actual Beach Boys-only release that had the track; it hadn't made it onto any hits comps yet; previously it was only available as a single with a non-BB b-side and the actual "Cocktail" soundtrack).

I have to imagine Capitol may have sensed the album only did as well as it did due to "Kokomo" (which, I believe, they had to license back from Elektra and/or Disney or whomever owned the song, in order to put on the album), because no second album or contract extension happened as a result.

Indeed, for a gold album with "Kokomo" on it, it's a bit bizarre the album has now been out of print for so long. I suppose it's possible there are rights hangups with it, but I'd tend to doubt that ("Kokomo" is onl a gazillion BB comps all the time).
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« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2019, 09:30:43 AM »

The Still Cruisin' album did go Gold, and eventually Platinum, though - presumably due to the inclusions of "Kokomo" and "Wipeout" (the latter of which, we must remember, was a No. 12 single in the States...and, shockingly, a No. 2 single in the U.K.).

I'm sure it was mainly "Kokomo" that got it gold status (let's remember it was the first actual Beach Boys-only release that had the track; it hadn't made it onto any hits comps yet; previously it was only available as a single with a non-BB b-side and the actual "Cocktail" soundtrack).

I have to imagine Capitol may have sensed the album only did as well as it did due to "Kokomo" (which, I believe, they had to license back from Elektra and/or Disney or whomever owned the song, in order to put on the album), because no second album or contract extension happened as a result.

Indeed, for a gold album with "Kokomo" on it, it's a bit bizarre the album has now been out of print for so long. I suppose it's possible there are rights hangups with it, but I'd tend to doubt that ("Kokomo" is onl a gazillion BB comps all the time).

The last time I checked the songs are on iTunes.
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« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2019, 09:57:29 AM »

The Still Cruisin' album did go Gold, and eventually Platinum, though - presumably due to the inclusions of "Kokomo" and "Wipeout" (the latter of which, we must remember, was a No. 12 single in the States...and, shockingly, a No. 2 single in the U.K.).

I'm sure it was mainly "Kokomo" that got it gold status (let's remember it was the first actual Beach Boys-only release that had the track; it hadn't made it onto any hits comps yet; previously it was only available as a single with a non-BB b-side and the actual "Cocktail" soundtrack).

I have to imagine Capitol may have sensed the album only did as well as it did due to "Kokomo" (which, I believe, they had to license back from Elektra and/or Disney or whomever owned the song, in order to put on the album), because no second album or contract extension happened as a result.

Indeed, for a gold album with "Kokomo" on it, it's a bit bizarre the album has now been out of print for so long. I suppose it's possible there are rights hangups with it, but I'd tend to doubt that ("Kokomo" is onl a gazillion BB comps all the time).

The last time I checked the songs are on iTunes.

It was up on iTunes in the US well past when it went out of print on CD. But I recall a thread from several years back where it was determined it was not available for digital purchase anymore. It doesn’t appear to be on Amazon. I can only partially check iTunes via the web, but I don’t see it there.

It may be up on streaming services.

But in any event, it has had sporadic and sometimes no distribution in more recent years, and has been out of print on CD for many years now. I think the inclusion of “Kokomo” drove sales of the album for several years, but by 1995 the song was on another single-disc set in the form of “Greatest Hits Vol. 1”, and thus could be obtained as easily there.

Meanwhile, I don't think there has been much lasting strong desire from the masses to get their version of "Wipe Out" (maybe a bit more in the UK where it was nearly a #1 hit?), thus is has languished in relative obscurity.
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« Reply #133 on: August 07, 2019, 11:19:10 PM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

 
Yeah, I know it sounds impressive to say they had a #3 album, but if the charts had been set up that way back in the 80's, with everything being about pre-release sales, I think Still Cruisin' or the 1985 album could have had a high debut like that, too. I seriously doubt TWGMTR outsold either of those albums. And those albums both had something TWGMTR lacked - a hit single. We tend to put down Getcha Back as a minor success, but if the 2012 reunion had produced a top 40 single, we'd all be screaming glory hallelujah!

It's hard to say; if I wanted to make money in 2012, I'd rather have a #3 album than a Top 40 single.

I suppose it's debatable whether Getcha Back's #26 chart placement constituted a hit, but I don't think "Still Cruisin" spawned any hit singles. It included a then-year-old #1 single in "Kokomo", but anything actually pulled from the album as a single tanked. "Still Cruisin" as a single barely hit the Top 100, and "Somewhere Near Japan" didn't even chart.

While a #3 album in 2012 didn't and doesn't mean what it would have back in the 60s or 70s, it was still a surprisingly strong chart showing all things considered, namely: The band had been dormant for 20 years as far as new studio releases, Mike had overextended and diluted the name brand with excessive touring, the TWGMTR album was getting generally solid but not rave reviews, and they released it not prior to, but rather over a month *into* the C50 tour. While the PR on the entire reunion project and tour were great, as good as can be expected, I'm not sure how much marketing muscle Capitol put behind the album. This was pre-UMe of course.
"Getcha Back" was also a top 5 hit on Billboard's AC chart. I don't think it quite made it to #1 - my memory fails me, but I remember being really surprised when I saw how high it charted there. Might have gone to #2. "Still Cruisin" was also a top 10 hit on that chart, as was "California Dreamin". So that was really their base in the 80's.
When did Mike and Bruce, or Brian and Al last perform any songs from TWGMTR? You will still hear them occasionally do Getcha Back, California Dreamin', or Still Cruisin'. It might have helped if the band had done better performances of their new songs in 2012. The tv performances all seemed rather tentative, like they hadn't had enough time to properly rehearse them. By the time Isn't it Time came out as a single, the reunion was all but over.
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« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2019, 02:21:21 AM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

 
Yeah, I know it sounds impressive to say they had a #3 album, but if the charts had been set up that way back in the 80's, with everything being about pre-release sales, I think Still Cruisin' or the 1985 album could have had a high debut like that, too. I seriously doubt TWGMTR outsold either of those albums. And those albums both had something TWGMTR lacked - a hit single. We tend to put down Getcha Back as a minor success, but if the 2012 reunion had produced a top 40 single, we'd all be screaming glory hallelujah!

It's hard to say; if I wanted to make money in 2012, I'd rather have a #3 album than a Top 40 single.

I suppose it's debatable whether Getcha Back's #26 chart placement constituted a hit, but I don't think "Still Cruisin" spawned any hit singles. It included a then-year-old #1 single in "Kokomo", but anything actually pulled from the album as a single tanked. "Still Cruisin" as a single barely hit the Top 100, and "Somewhere Near Japan" didn't even chart.

While a #3 album in 2012 didn't and doesn't mean what it would have back in the 60s or 70s, it was still a surprisingly strong chart showing all things considered, namely: The band had been dormant for 20 years as far as new studio releases, Mike had overextended and diluted the name brand with excessive touring, the TWGMTR album was getting generally solid but not rave reviews, and they released it not prior to, but rather over a month *into* the C50 tour. While the PR on the entire reunion project and tour were great, as good as can be expected, I'm not sure how much marketing muscle Capitol put behind the album. This was pre-UMe of course.
"Getcha Back" was also a top 5 hit on Billboard's AC chart. I don't think it quite made it to #1 - my memory fails me, but I remember being really surprised when I saw how high it charted there. Might have gone to #2. "Still Cruisin" was also a top 10 hit on that chart, as was "California Dreamin". So that was really their base in the 80's.
When did Mike and Bruce, or Brian and Al last perform any songs from TWGMTR? You will still hear them occasionally do Getcha Back, California Dreamin', or Still Cruisin'. It might have helped if the band had done better performances of their new songs in 2012. The tv performances all seemed rather tentative, like they hadn't had enough time to properly rehearse them. By the time Isn't it Time came out as a single, the reunion was all but over.

Brian did some TWGMTR songs on the live with friends CD to promote NPP.
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« Reply #135 on: August 08, 2019, 06:36:16 AM »

I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.

I wouldn't tend to agree that anybody in the camp did (or should have) believed they could get a "hit", as in a "hit single." "Kokomo" was a fluke, and the market and the way the charts are set up (and were set up in 2012) would have made it exponentially harder to get a hit single in 2012 than in 1988.

Based on industry trends, chart tabulation methods, past recent track records, and their own sense of what a good or great song is, I don't think anybody thought "Isn't It Time" was going to be a huge hit. The title track was the best shot at *ANY* singles chart action.

As with most artists of their age and stature, it would be the *albums charts* where they'd see success, and indeed they scored their highest charting album in eons with TWGMTR. That anybody complained that the album dropped quickly off the charts just proved how uninformed they were about how sales and charts work. Most projects are front-loaded like that.

 
Yeah, I know it sounds impressive to say they had a #3 album, but if the charts had been set up that way back in the 80's, with everything being about pre-release sales, I think Still Cruisin' or the 1985 album could have had a high debut like that, too. I seriously doubt TWGMTR outsold either of those albums. And those albums both had something TWGMTR lacked - a hit single. We tend to put down Getcha Back as a minor success, but if the 2012 reunion had produced a top 40 single, we'd all be screaming glory hallelujah!

It's hard to say; if I wanted to make money in 2012, I'd rather have a #3 album than a Top 40 single.

I suppose it's debatable whether Getcha Back's #26 chart placement constituted a hit, but I don't think "Still Cruisin" spawned any hit singles. It included a then-year-old #1 single in "Kokomo", but anything actually pulled from the album as a single tanked. "Still Cruisin" as a single barely hit the Top 100, and "Somewhere Near Japan" didn't even chart.

While a #3 album in 2012 didn't and doesn't mean what it would have back in the 60s or 70s, it was still a surprisingly strong chart showing all things considered, namely: The band had been dormant for 20 years as far as new studio releases, Mike had overextended and diluted the name brand with excessive touring, the TWGMTR album was getting generally solid but not rave reviews, and they released it not prior to, but rather over a month *into* the C50 tour. While the PR on the entire reunion project and tour were great, as good as can be expected, I'm not sure how much marketing muscle Capitol put behind the album. This was pre-UMe of course.
"Getcha Back" was also a top 5 hit on Billboard's AC chart. I don't think it quite made it to #1 - my memory fails me, but I remember being really surprised when I saw how high it charted there. Might have gone to #2. "Still Cruisin" was also a top 10 hit on that chart, as was "California Dreamin". So that was really their base in the 80's.
When did Mike and Bruce, or Brian and Al last perform any songs from TWGMTR? You will still hear them occasionally do Getcha Back, California Dreamin', or Still Cruisin'. It might have helped if the band had done better performances of their new songs in 2012. The tv performances all seemed rather tentative, like they hadn't had enough time to properly rehearse them. By the time Isn't it Time came out as a single, the reunion was all but over.

I'm sure if audiences in 2019 (or even 2012) were polled, there would be marginally more familiarity with a few of their mid-late 80s singles compared to tracks from TWGMTR. But that's setting the bar pretty low. I think the only reason the BB's association with "California Dreamin'" might still resonate with some fans is that the band, for whatever reason, incessantly kept it in the setlist starting in 1986 or 87, despite it only performing somewhere in between "Getcha Back" and "It's Gettin' Late." They kept "CD" in the setlist longer and more regularly than even "Getcha Back" (and certainly "Still Cruisin'"), so I think fans and the band would agree that those mid-late 80s singles didn't stick with anyone the way previous hits had.

Scoring moderate and occasionally high placement on the AC charts in the 80s and early 90s was certainly a case of "better than nothing", but again, in terms of mass appeal and recognition, I don't think the AC charts really are indicative of how much the band's overall fame and recognition in the industry was sagging by then, and how each new single/album cycle wasn't getting them much of anywhere with audiences. That they refused to push through and make their shows more progressive and less of a sideshow spectacle certainly didn't help foster an audience that would embrace not only deep cuts, but actually *celebrate* the band's recent tracks.

I mean, "Problem Child" hit #38 on the AC charts; "Hot Fun in the Summertime" hit #17 on the AC charts. Nobody remembers those songs or cares about them outside of hardcore fans (and even the hardcore fans tend not to like them).

And even if we're just talking contemporaneous with when those projects came out, I don't think even the band felt the cases of barely clinging to the Top 100 (or not at all) and squeaking into the Top 20 or 40 on the AC charts, was really indicative of huge interest from the public or a huge resurgence.

Mike doing "Getcha Back" in, say, 2013 or 2007 had more to do with simply his affinity for the song than it being a case of "let's pull this song out that people will recognize!" I also think all of the touring bands have a different setlist prompt/ethos in the last 10-15 years compared to the 80s and 90s Carl era. They were clearly more trigger shy about doing much beyond the "meat and potatoes" back then, whether we're talking old deep cuts, or latter-day stuff that was a moderate slight "hit."

The band tended to not weigh the AC charts heavily apparently back in the day. "Good Timin" hit #40 and #12 on the AC charts, yet it was scrubbed from the setlist when Carl left in early 1981, *briefly* returned to the setlist in 1982 when Carl returned, and was never heard from again for the rest of Carl's life. Why Carl never sang his last Top 40 lead vocal (outside of "Kokomo") for the last 16 years of his life, I have no idea. And with "Good Timin'", I'd argue it had a bit of a stronghold in some regions in terms of audience recognition; listen to the Philadelphia crowd actively *cheer* the song when it starts at their 1980 gig.
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