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Author Topic: Terry Melcher  (Read 9724 times)
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« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2019, 10:13:28 AM »

guitarfool2002,

You're definitely right that Brian recording at Capitol, under the direction of Venet, is largely to blame to for the 'limp' sound of The BBs early work. Again, not dismissing BW or The BBs in any way, by thinking Jan & Dean, Bruce & Terry, Rip Chords, as groups that actually made some great music, not just copy cat stuff. No one would deny that Bruce & Terry and The Rip Chords were set up and manufactured to replicate The BBs sound/lyrical theme, but I think dismissing those groups as *just* being knockoff groups, is like calling all of the British Invasion bands Beatles knockoffs. There's always going to be someone to start the sound, but then others can expand on it. For Hip Hop fans on here I'll compare it to this: Dr. Dre was an architect of the West Coast G-Funk Sound. He's the one who is always given credit for creating the sound and putting it on the map. Dj Quik was already incorporating elements of George Clinton's "P Funk" in his Hip Hop beats before Dre released The Chronic. And Daz Dillinger, Warren G, Chris Taylor produced, co-produced, or ghost produced depending on who you ask, many songs (with and without Dre) that were G-Funk classics. Sure, Warren G 'stole' Dre's sound for his hit "Regulate" in a similar way Bruce & Terry did with "Summer Mean Fun" and The BBs sound. But not many Hip Hop fans dismiss Warren G as just ripping off his step brother, Dr. Dre. It's impossible to quantify the amount of cross pollination of ideas that can take place in a musical scene. Especially when friendships/relationships like Dre and Warren G or BBs & J&D are involved.

Also, when I'm talking about Jan & Dean vs Beach Boys rock songs, I'm talking about the *sound* of the backing tracks. I don't really care that Brian wrote about surfing before Jan. When I talk about the power of Surf City or Little Old Lady, it's not the surf/hot rod jargon that made those records classics-  I'm talking about the fat double drums, multiple basses, and vocal layering Jan did to make those songs explode off the speakers. Similarly, I don't think people still listen to 409 and Surfin USA today because of their lyrical themes, it's the great feeling of 'love', as BW might put it, you get from the songs. The overall emotion. Lots of that comes from the instrumental backing tracks, which Berry, Melcher, and Johnston were really good at crafting. I think Bruce & Terry's version of Custom Machine and Jan & Dean's I Gotta Drive still sound "heavy" and rock in 2019.

As for J&D's R&B Dore/pre-Surf stuff, I can agree that it's pretty insignificant when taken out of history. Baby Talk and Jennie Lee don't exactly blow my mind, but they're starting points. Like Love Me Do compared to She Loves You. Surfin to Don't Worry Baby. When put in a historical context, what Jan was doing was pretty revolutionary. He was cutting hit records in his garage. Songs like Jennie Lee, Baby Talk, and White Tennis Sneakers were constructed by Jan (with Arnie, Dean, and whoever else from The Barons were present, as well as eventually Herb Alpert and Lou Adler) by using various tape machines to record a backing track that would consist of the Vocals, Piano (for accompaniment/driving the harmony) and something to keep time (sometimes a metronome, and sometimes someone banging on whatever could be found to make a percussive sound). Additional instruments (Guitars, Drums, Bass, Sax, etc) was overdubbed by The Wrecking Crew in the studio. This DIY method of recording would become cool and trendy eventually, but for Jan to be doing that in the late 50's is pretty insane. I highly recommend reading Mark A Moore's book The Jan & Dean Record if you want to see how dedicated and creative Jan was. It's interesting to note that Jan was using the group of musicians that would become known as The Wrecking Crew *before* SPECTOR and BW. Especially funny when it retrospect the WC are often called "Spector's musicians" or something like that. The specific dates of when Jan recorded with them first and Phil did are in Mark's book. Using those musicians first doesn't instantly make Jan the better, or best producer, but it's an interesting historical footnote.

Nate, on the quotes I put in bold, I wanted to address a few things about the background. Again I know and respect your opinions of Jan Berry as a producer and musician and you obviously have done a lot of research and reading about him. However in a few cases, my issue has been that in some circles Jan Berry gets overcredited or even over-praised for things he did which can be either subjective in how someone feels about his work or objective in how some things are not 100% factual. I'd like to put on the table a few things regarding Jan and recording in his garage which - maybe, I'm not sure - have not been introduced alongside sources that credit Jan with some kind of innovation or revolutionary "new" activity.

One name: Les Paul.

Nate, I'm going to link two YouTube videos from a TV broadcast in 1953 where Les Paul and Mary Ford demonstrate live on TV how Les created his hit records using overdubbing, bouncing, and tape machines linked together. One is a short clip where Les shows how he stacked guitars and played a percussion part on his guitar, and the other is a longer clip where Mary tracks overdubbed vocals on top but the percussion part is for some reason edited out.

These old kinescopes are basically the Rosetta Stone or Dead Sea Scrolls of modern recording techniques. *No one* before Les Paul was doing this, he literally invented all this stuff which is still the foundation of recording studio technology today. And this was 1953 when he's demonstrating it on TV for all to see: Les had been experimenting since the 40's with overdubbing using acetates, which came to fruition on his monster hit "Lover" in 1947, which was done using hundreds of acetate discs and a disc cutter supposedly built by Les using the flywheel from a Cadillac engine. (Side note - I'm a huge Les Paul fan and was fortunate enough to examine original Les Paul acetates which were cut and engraved by Les personally in his garage...I have pictures too lol, grinning like a little kid holding this oversized acetate  Grin  )

Anyway, my point is that Les Paul was recording in his garage, and in his various rooms, and hotel suites, and whatnot the decade before Jan did Baby Talk, and Les Paul's "New Sound" was selling massive amounts for Capitol in the late 40's and early 50's, to the point where Les and Mary got their own TV show as mentioned in the 1953 clip.

Anyone watching that show or others like it in 1953 would see how Les was doing this with tape machines, and anyone with the money and desire to try it was getting tape machines and experimenting with this stuff at home. Some of these even made it onto the charts, and home recording became a trend of sorts once machines became more affordable and available outside professional circuits, and once Les cracked the code and broke the secret, people who could access it began doing it too.

Among them was a young Brian Wilson whose home tapes we have heard, including "Happy Birthday Freshmen" featuring Brian stacking his vocals on the tape machine Murry bought for him.

Just consider that what you accredited Jan Berry with doing on Baby Talk was something Les Paul both invented and demonstrated on TV back in '53, and these "New Sound" records Les and Mary were making and releasing on Capitol were selling millions of copies.

Les ran the table on innovation, creativity, and commercial success...not to mention he invented this stuff and was cutting these records in his garage. I think that's the influence which Jan could have followed, among thousands of others and those select few who actually made hit records from their garage. But it was not new or innovative which could be credited to Jan Berry.

Here's the clips, if you have a few minutes please watch them and you'll see the foundation of modern, multitrack recorded music unfold on live TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFKLwJzMoIs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjKX0P4t_ac

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« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2019, 03:24:50 PM »

Those clips are amazing. Thanks for sharing. I was aware of Les Paul's influence in multi-track recording, but it had been a long time since I had seen those videos. And while Jan wasn't the first to record "garage" style, I don't think it should diminish the accomplishment of crafting hit records that people still talk about today, with two tape recorders and a lot of passion.

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« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2019, 04:26:40 PM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho
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« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2019, 08:11:28 PM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.
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« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2019, 09:18:12 PM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.
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« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2019, 07:00:27 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

C-man mentioned back earlier in the thread that Melcher was a sort of unofficial producer or co-producer on that track, and that Levine himself had mentioned Melcher's input on the recording, specifically mentioning cajoling Brian into doing the falsetto part.

I'd be curious to know how much Melcher was present during the recording of that album. I know they did a bunch of sessions in the UK in 1984, and then also some sessions back in LA. Fair to assume they probably did the "Getcha Back" sessions Melcher was present at during the LA sessions? I had forgotten Melcher was also credited with keyboards on "Getcha Back", which appears to be the only song he's on.
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« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2019, 08:50:53 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

C-man mentioned back earlier in the thread that Melcher was a sort of unofficial producer or co-producer on that track, and that Levine himself had mentioned Melcher's input on the recording, specifically mentioning cajoling Brian into doing the falsetto part.

I'd be curious to know how much Melcher was present during the recording of that album. I know they did a bunch of sessions in the UK in 1984, and then also some sessions back in LA. Fair to assume they probably did the "Getcha Back" sessions Melcher was present at during the LA sessions? I had forgotten Melcher was also credited with keyboards on "Getcha Back", which appears to be the only song he's on.

Makes sense. It would seem hard for someone as with as much production experience as Terry to not have any involvement in producing, even if it's someone else's official production.

I'd be curious to know how Terry's production Rock and Roll to the Rescue came about. That was always envisioned as a standalone single, right? And it was intentionally written/produced from the start with the intent of being a "Made in the USA" bonus track to get people to purchase that oldies comp?

Side question: were the BB85 tracks and the Holland tracks the only new studio album songs that the band ever recorded outside the US? Plus maybe I'm remembering, but I also seem to recall someone (maybe Mike's) vocal parts on Don't Fight the Sea being recorded in an overseas hotel room and then flown into a ProTools session in the US.
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« Reply #107 on: August 01, 2019, 09:43:42 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

C-man mentioned back earlier in the thread that Melcher was a sort of unofficial producer or co-producer on that track, and that Levine himself had mentioned Melcher's input on the recording, specifically mentioning cajoling Brian into doing the falsetto part.

I'd be curious to know how much Melcher was present during the recording of that album. I know they did a bunch of sessions in the UK in 1984, and then also some sessions back in LA. Fair to assume they probably did the "Getcha Back" sessions Melcher was present at during the LA sessions? I had forgotten Melcher was also credited with keyboards on "Getcha Back", which appears to be the only song he's on.

Makes sense. It would seem hard for someone as with as much production experience as Terry to not have any involvement in producing, even if it's someone else's official production.

I'd be curious to know how Terry's production Rock and Roll to the Rescue came about. That was always envisioned as a standalone single, right? And it was intentionally written/produced from the start with the intent of being a "Made in the USA" bonus track to get people to purchase that oldies comp?

Side question: were the BB85 tracks and the Holland tracks the only new studio album songs that the band ever recorded outside the US? Plus maybe I'm remembering, but I also seem to recall someone (maybe Mike's) vocal parts on Don't Fight the Sea being recorded in an overseas hotel room and then flown into a ProTools session in the US.

I have a vague recollection that some of the overdubs for the single version of "Isn't It Time" were recorded after the BBs got to Europe on the C50 tour. But I'm not sure.

As for "Rock and Roll the Rescue", I have a vague recollection of some mention that Brian produced the sessions initially, and then Terry Melcher came in.

I can't recall if the track or its sessions are mentioned in the Brian/Gary Usher book covering that 1986 time frame. As I've often mentioned, Usher did mention that he seemed to feel both he and Melcher in 1986 were vying to produce the "next Beach Boys album" that ultimately never happened.

The scant info I can find suggests R&R to the Rescue was recorded in March 1986 (while the Usher sessions with Brian started in June 1986). They shot the music video for the song at the end of May, and the single was released June 9th, with the "Made in USA" album coming a month later on July 7th.

I'd say by the time they were recoding R&R to the Rescue, it was probably pegged for the "Made in USA" album (and also as a single).

It was later in the year that they also pulled "California Dreamin'" from the "Made in USA" album as another single.

I'm not sure when the '86 overdub sessions for "California Dreamin'" took place; perhaps around the same time as the R&R to the Rescue sessions?
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« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2019, 01:18:50 PM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.
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« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2019, 02:21:33 PM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.

As of now, might that be the last Beach Boys studio recording session for a new song?
For it to be in Norway of all places, odd...

And while this is sort of a different category, didn't Mike have someone do some post-2012 overdub for the otherwise vintage "Going To The Beach"'s "debut" on MIC?
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« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2019, 02:34:14 PM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.

As of now, might that be the last Beach Boys studio recording session for a new song?
For it to be in Norway of all places, odd...

And while this is sort of a different category, didn't Mike have someone do some post-2012 overdub for the otherwise vintage "Going To The Beach"'s "debut" on MIC?

Yes, Scott Totten did a guitar overdub on "Goin' to the Beach", for what reason I can't fathom, as the backing track seemed complete enough. I think that took place post-C50, in 2013 probably?

As for "Isn't It Time", it must have been a very late decision to do an alternate single version of the song, and they were already touring Europe by that time.

I think they must have devised the new version/arrangement while on tour in the US, as I believe it was on some mid-US tour dates that they first started doing the alternate version? I'm trying to recall.
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« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2019, 04:10:10 PM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.

As of now, might that be the last Beach Boys studio recording session for a new song?
For it to be in Norway of all places, odd...

And while this is sort of a different category, didn't Mike have someone do some post-2012 overdub for the otherwise vintage "Going To The Beach"'s "debut" on MIC?

Yes, Scott Totten did a guitar overdub on "Goin' to the Beach", for what reason I can't fathom, as the backing track seemed complete enough. I think that took place post-C50, in 2013 probably?

As for "Isn't It Time", it must have been a very late decision to do an alternate single version of the song, and they were already touring Europe by that time.

I think they must have devised the new version/arrangement while on tour in the US, as I believe it was on some mid-US tour dates that they first started doing the alternate version? I'm trying to recall.

It's also weird to think of the timeline of when Mike was already planning/booking M&B shows... was Al aware of the fact that C50 was dead tour walking and the reunion was basically doomed when he sang those lines in a Norwegian hotel room? It feels like a scene from an eventual scripted C50-themed movie.
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« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2019, 07:51:14 AM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.

As of now, might that be the last Beach Boys studio recording session for a new song?
For it to be in Norway of all places, odd...

And while this is sort of a different category, didn't Mike have someone do some post-2012 overdub for the otherwise vintage "Going To The Beach"'s "debut" on MIC?

Yes, Scott Totten did a guitar overdub on "Goin' to the Beach", for what reason I can't fathom, as the backing track seemed complete enough. I think that took place post-C50, in 2013 probably?

As for "Isn't It Time", it must have been a very late decision to do an alternate single version of the song, and they were already touring Europe by that time.

I think they must have devised the new version/arrangement while on tour in the US, as I believe it was on some mid-US tour dates that they first started doing the alternate version? I'm trying to recall.

It's also weird to think of the timeline of when Mike was already planning/booking M&B shows... was Al aware of the fact that C50 was dead tour walking and the reunion was basically doomed when he sang those lines in a Norwegian hotel room? It feels like a scene from an eventual scripted C50-themed movie.

Also, I think Mary-Ann sent an email just after saying 'No MORE LINES FOR MR. JARDINE!!!'  Grin
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« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2019, 08:29:56 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

As I mentioned upthread, Steve Levine said Terry was a virtual co-producer on "Getcha Back" by virture of getting that amazing falsetto performance out of Brian, who was initially very reluctant to do it.
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« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2019, 08:31:50 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

C-man mentioned back earlier in the thread that Melcher was a sort of unofficial producer or co-producer on that track, and that Levine himself had mentioned Melcher's input on the recording, specifically mentioning cajoling Brian into doing the falsetto part.

I'd be curious to know how much Melcher was present during the recording of that album. I know they did a bunch of sessions in the UK in 1984, and then also some sessions back in LA. Fair to assume they probably did the "Getcha Back" sessions Melcher was present at during the LA sessions? I had forgotten Melcher was also credited with keyboards on "Getcha Back", which appears to be the only song he's on.

Yes, "Getcha Back" was cut in L.A., as were "She Believes In Love Again" and "I Do Love You". Melcher was only involved with "Getcha Back".
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« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2019, 08:44:08 AM »

Answers to other questions above:

Brian and Terry co-produced the early sessions for "RR to the R", but Terry got pissed when Landy pulled Brian out and sent him to Hawaii for a "stress test". That's why he doesn't have a co-production credit. Session documentation spans a date range of mid-March to early-April of '86.

Mike's vocals on "DFTS" were recorded in a hotel room in Toronto, Canada.

New parts were added to the single mix of "IIT" in hotel conference rooms in a few different cities along the C50 tour, the last of which was abroad - Oslo, Norway. Mike, Bruce, Al, Brian, and Jeff all sang at the Oslo session.
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« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2019, 09:08:35 AM »

Getting a bit off-topic here, but there's one more non-U.S. session that comes to mind, although it's for a BW solo album:

Eric Clapton's guitar on "City Blues" was tracked at London's Olympic Studios. Reportedly, Eric was so excited about the session that he personally greeted Brian upon his arrival, opening the door for him. I know some find the guitar on that song to be overbearing or ill-fitting, but I think it fits well, even if it is "non BB-like": I think that's the whole point, and to me, that track is one of the highlights of that much-maligned album. And even though the composition is officially credited to just BW, back in late '81, Brian stated that he wrote the song with Dennis. Knowing that, I can't help but think that Dennis would be proud to know that a musician of Clapton's caliber was utilized on the recording!
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« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2019, 09:37:03 AM »

Getting a bit off-topic here, but there's one more non-U.S. session that comes to mind, although it's for a BW solo album:

Eric Clapton's guitar on "City Blues" was tracked at London's Olympic Studios. Reportedly, Eric was so excited about the session that he personally greeted Brian upon his arrival, opening the door for him. I know some find the guitar on that song to be overbearing or ill-fitting, but I think it fits well, even if it is "non BB-like": I think that's the whole point, and to me, that track is one of the highlights of that much-maligned album. And even though the composition is officially credited to just BW, back in late '81, Brian stated that he wrote the song with Dennis. Knowing that, I can't help but think that Dennis would be proud to know that a musician of Clapton's caliber was utilized on the recording!

I’ve probably said this before, but back when the “Cocaine/Hamburger Tape” started making the rounds however many years ago, I singled out “City Blues” as a good candidate for Brian to revisit. I was pretty surprised he did so however many years later.

My idea was that Brian should hook back up with Jeff Lynne to coproduce. That obviously didn’t happen, but he did get Clapton on it. I think Clapton’s guitar is fine. I don’t think it’s so much overbearing as not terribly interesting.

“City Blues” ended up indeed being of the standouts on the GIOMH album, but the main issue with “City Blues” was the production/mix. WAAAAY too wet and cavernous, like trying to mix a sort of “power pop” harder edged pop song with a sort of horn-fueled R&B thing and then mixed with a vintage “Wall of Sound” sort of production. Most of the songs on that album *sound* not so great in terms of mix and production and arrangement, though mainly in the mix. Almost everything is way too wet, and thus everything kind of sounds indistinct and murky a bit.

I think a dry Jeff Lynne sound on the track would have worked much better. 
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« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2019, 09:44:09 AM »

Answers to other questions above:

Brian and Terry co-produced the early sessions for "RR to the R", but Terry got pissed when Landy pulled Brian out and sent him to Hawaii for a "stress test". That's why he doesn't have a co-production credit. Session documentation spans a date range of mid-March to early-April of '86.

Mike's vocals on "DFTS" were recorded in a hotel room in Toronto, Canada.

New parts were added to the single mix of "IIT" in hotel conference rooms in a few different cities along the C50 tour, the last of which was abroad - Oslo, Norway. Mike, Bruce, Al, Brian, and Jeff all sang at the Oslo session.


Yeah, that jogs my memory on the R&R to the Rescue session. Interesting that Landy didn’t try to beef it and demand a co-producer credit for Brian if Brian did indeed co-produce some of the sessions. 

I can’t recall the exact chronology of when Landy started trying to broker something to have Brian start working with Gary Usher, but considering that the Usher sessions took place a few months after this, I wonder if the R&R to the Rescue session was one of the things that led Landy to try to get Brian’s “solo” career going more actively and not have to deal with having to run stuff through the BB organization and its associates.

Then again, Gary Usher remained under the impression that he had a chance to finagle not only doing work with Brian, but also possibly producing the “next” Beach Boys album.
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« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2019, 09:50:52 AM »

IIRC, Al's new vocal for Isn't It Time (single version) was recorded in his hotel room in Norway, but I may be wrong.

As of now, might that be the last Beach Boys studio recording session for a new song?
For it to be in Norway of all places, odd...

And while this is sort of a different category, didn't Mike have someone do some post-2012 overdub for the otherwise vintage "Going To The Beach"'s "debut" on MIC?

Yes, Scott Totten did a guitar overdub on "Goin' to the Beach", for what reason I can't fathom, as the backing track seemed complete enough. I think that took place post-C50, in 2013 probably?

As for "Isn't It Time", it must have been a very late decision to do an alternate single version of the song, and they were already touring Europe by that time.

I think they must have devised the new version/arrangement while on tour in the US, as I believe it was on some mid-US tour dates that they first started doing the alternate version? I'm trying to recall.

It's also weird to think of the timeline of when Mike was already planning/booking M&B shows... was Al aware of the fact that C50 was dead tour walking and the reunion was basically doomed when he sang those lines in a Norwegian hotel room? It feels like a scene from an eventual scripted C50-themed movie.

I don’t think there’s any definitive answer as to what all the guys *thought* as the C50 tour entered its final weeks and months.

I have to imagine that Al had to know that the thing ending in September for good was a strong possibility, and I’d certainly hope that if *fans* were hearing by June (only 1-2 months into the tour) that Mike had supposedly started booking his own shows for after C50, then Al had to have heard that as well.

I think Al probably remained perhaps comically unrealistically hopeful about all the members coming to their senses and continuing on. I think Al also usually pitches various ideas for these types of projects (e.g. on the PBS interview during C50 suggesting they should reconvene *every other year*, which is an idea I don’t think *anybody else* was considering). There’s that interview with Al around the time of the Grammy Museum thing near the end of the tour, where he talks about Mike going back to his own tour, and how he (Al) was trying hard to talk Mike into reconsidering.

So I think Al was perhaps overly hopeful and perhaps a bit naïve to the cynicism that would permeate aspects of the reunion even when it was going so stunningly well critically and commercially.

Did some or all of the members know that trying to launch an eleventh hour “Isn’t It Time” single late in the tour was sort of a lame duck situation in all likelihood? I’d say probably?
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« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2019, 10:57:14 AM »

I saw someone on here saying he produced Getcha Back...but i thought he just co-wrote it and Levine produced the whole album? Did he actually produce it or did someone just mis-speak on here? Wikipedia says Levine produced the song...could be wrong tho

I think they were arguing that he co-produced the song because of the way he helped with the vocals and getting the falsetto part out of Brian, etc.

That was me, and I guess it was my mistake… I for some reason I had thought that Terry produced that song in addition to cowriting it, but it appears I was wrong. But as you mentioned, it's possible there was some contribution by Terry during the recording of it from a production standpoint. At least that would be my guess.

I read an interview with Mike about 10 years ago.  He was asked to name a song that wasn't a hit that he thought should have been.  He named "Getcha Back". He went to complain about Steve Levine's production of the song, how Mike had wanted a "ballsy" sax on the song to make it sound like Hungry Heart, but that Levine "just didn't get it."
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« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2019, 09:56:53 PM »

FYI - Two vintage hit singles produced by Terry Melcher, "Good Thing" and "Hungry" by Paul Revere & The Raiders are on the "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" soundtrack, with "Good Thing" also being co-written by Terry. Both went top-10 back in '66. So a new and younger audience will perhaps get a chance to hear and appreciate them.

Just tying that in to, like, three other current discussions.  Smiley
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« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2019, 11:19:12 PM »


FYI - Two vintage hit singles produced by Terry Melcher, "Good Thing" and "Hungry" by Paul Revere & The Raiders are on the "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" soundtrack, with "Good Thing" also being co-written by Terry. Both went top-10 back in '66. So a new and younger audience will perhaps get a chance to hear and appreciate them.

Just tying that in to, like, three other current discussions.  Smiley


In addition to producing Hungry and Good Thing and co-writing Good Thing, while Mark Lindsay sings lead, Terry Melcher sings all the other vocals on both tracks.
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« Reply #123 on: August 03, 2019, 09:26:27 PM »


FYI - Two vintage hit singles produced by Terry Melcher, "Good Thing" and "Hungry" by Paul Revere & The Raiders are on the "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood" soundtrack, with "Good Thing" also being co-written by Terry. Both went top-10 back in '66. So a new and younger audience will perhaps get a chance to hear and appreciate them.

Just tying that in to, like, three other current discussions.  Smiley


In addition to producing Hungry and Good Thing and co-writing Good Thing, while Mark Lindsay sings lead, Terry Melcher sings all the other vocals on both tracks.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Phil Volk, for one, would beg to disagree with you. Phil says he helped write Good Thing, and has previously spoken against the accepted line that the Raiders was just Mark and Terry with a bunch of session men.
Mark, on the other hand, would probably back up your statement - he never gives credit to his bandmates for anything.
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« Reply #124 on: August 03, 2019, 10:17:34 PM »






As for "Isn't It Time", it must have been a very late decision to do an alternate single version of the song, and they were already touring Europe by that time.

I think they must have devised the new version/arrangement while on tour in the US, as I believe it was on some mid-US tour dates that they first started doing the alternate version? I'm trying to recall.

It's also weird to think of the timeline of when Mike was already planning/booking M&B shows... was Al aware of the fact that C50 was dead tour walking and the reunion was basically doomed when he sang those lines in a Norwegian hotel room? It feels like a scene from an eventual scripted C50-themed movie.

I don’t think there’s any definitive answer as to what all the guys *thought* as the C50 tour entered its final weeks and months.

I have to imagine that Al had to know that the thing ending in September for good was a strong possibility, and I’d certainly hope that if *fans* were hearing by June (only 1-2 months into the tour) that Mike had supposedly started booking his own shows for after C50, then Al had to have heard that as well.

I think Al probably remained perhaps comically unrealistically hopeful about all the members coming to their senses and continuing on. I think Al also usually pitches various ideas for these types of projects (e.g. on the PBS interview during C50 suggesting they should reconvene *every other year*, which is an idea I don’t think *anybody else* was considering). There’s that interview with Al around the time of the Grammy Museum thing near the end of the tour, where he talks about Mike going back to his own tour, and how he (Al) was trying hard to talk Mike into reconsidering.

So I think Al was perhaps overly hopeful and perhaps a bit naïve to the cynicism that would permeate aspects of the reunion even when it was going so stunningly well critically and commercially.



I think that Al knows Mike enough that at some point he realized that the only way of keeping the band together is for Mike to make more money if it is together.  The only way that would work is if the reunion band had a big hit.  My guess is that the remake of "Isn't It Time" was understood as a last chance to have a big hit.
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